" we ahve our own EdVoice locally, its called SC21. I love how Silicon Valley retirees think they have all the answers "

" Private and corporate interests follow the money. Right now, the public sector is where the money is. Look for more privatization efforts in the education sector. There is too much money out there up for grabs. Calls for charter schools reflect the desire for a docile, easily manipulated workforce willing to work long hours for low pay and few or no benefits. If corporate interests prevail, I fear that schools will more closely resemble factories than ever before. "

" MJH -- I've been wondering about the long-term effects of the push toward more charter, corporate-funded schools. Is there someplace you know of where I can read more about that?

Thanks,
Della "

" We need Charter Schools to remain independent from the grasps of unions and other political interests. I believe in unions, UP to a point. But when it comes to educating our children, unions should focus on wages and benefits. Unions should keep their claws away from defending tenure and bad teachers.

I'm also concerned about the influence of organizations such as EdVoice over our educational system. Charter Schools are the one place where we can raise free thinkers. It appears to me as though someone is attempting to box free thinkers in, to control their destiny?

Charter schools should be allowed to hire the teacher that BEST fits their philosophy. They are probably best run by the parents whose children attend them.

Why is it necessary to have either unions or Edvoice dictating which type of educational system best fits a certain population? Do parents have any input anymore? Maybe they never did. "

" MJH, what you should fear is the 50% + drop-out rate in many of our public schools. That's a real system failure, perpetrated on and by real people. If the private sector can do a better job with the same or less money, I say, "Get it done." It's a terrible shame we have so many minds wasted by a system that fails children of "certain" socioeconomic backgrounds, no? "

" Vouchers, Charters, and Magnet schools are a great alternative to the public schools. As a graduate of the L.A. City school system until the 7th grade in the late 60's, the public school system was awesome then in L.A. My nephew went to a magnet school and received a great education.

Steph and MJH- Maybe the real trick is for the "Mega School Districts" to be broken up into smaller ones to center more resources on those having a harder time. Teacher rotation between schools would not be a bad idea either. Take some of the teachers from a poorer school and let them teach in a different one for a year.

Rather than just throwing money at it, be a little creative. "

" steph -- is part of the success rate of charter schools, I'm wondering, because children whose parents value education more are more likely to send them to charter schools?

It's an open question; I haven't done any research on it, but it seems to make some sense. And those whose parents value education more (or are in a better position based on their own education to mentor their children in regard to learning) are more likely to have academically successful students.

I wish it was less a question of charter vs. public schools and more a question of academics/professional track vs. vocational skills track. I wonder what the pros and cons are of corporations offering apprenticeships to students. That seems the most logical way for corporations to be involved in education.

Just thinking out loud here. "

" Where is the data that shows charter/corporate schools actually do better? That should be the first thing to check.... "

" della
The answer to your question is yes. Success in school is determined by the value parents put on education, their partnering with their child's teacher, and begins before their children are school age with the proper developmental toys, reading together each day, and exploring the world.

Lack of money has ripped apart the vocational skills track in the public schools. If you want high test scores in English and Math how can a school concentrate on vocational studies? Your ideas are sure on track. Apprenticeships would be invaluable to students who are not on the college track.

Two schools here in Napa that are charter schools are NVLA and Phillips. If you look at their test scores you will find that calling a school "charter" doesn't guarantee valued education. "

" Della
Check out the scores for Bel Aire School and Bel Aire Alternative School. They prove your point about the importance of parents. "

" Yes, it's true, our public school system is wonderful for children whose parents are well-educated, well-off, and engaged.

Our public school system fails children who have none of the above.

Question is, is that ok? Do we just shrug our shoulders and say, "Well, it's their parents. There is nothing that can be done."

Everyone here knows how much love I have for teachers. I don't blame teachers as a whole; I blame a monolithic, uncaring system whose so-called "leaders" are removed and don't care about children and teachers.


But there are charter schools that are making inroads in poor urban areas. Isn't it nice that poor children and families have choices previously only available to wealthier families?
http://www.newsweek.com/id/180108

Not all poor people want to eschew education for their children, but often the only education available is offered in large, unsafe, uncaring, failing schools (Richmond High School?) Certainly poor children should have alternatives for a basic necessity that we are already funding--often with poor results. Let's attach the money to good results and encourage private competition, especially for poor children who DO want a good education. What if this actually raised the level of professionalism and respect for our teachers? Some are paid more for more work in charter schools.

http://gothamschools.org/2009/02/02/jay-mathews-seven-myths-about-the-kipp-charter-schools/

http://www.nationalcenter.org/P21NVMooreCharter706.html "

" Traditional public schools often outscore charter schools and private schools on standardized tests. Voucher programs often fail to deliver on promises of higher standardized test scores.

Unfortunately, one of the most reliable indicators of future academic (and financial) success remains parental income. Efforts to erase the so-called achievement gap begin in kindergarten.

But don't take my word for it. Check out results compiled by the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP). According to the NAEP, public schools have been improving since the early 1970s; indeed, improvements have continued---but at a slower pace---since No Child Left Behind legislation passed.

Will Rogers once said, "The schools ain't what they used to be and never was." Did he ever visit Napa? "

" I kind of like the idea of teacher rotation, FP. Might make it more interesting for everyone. "

" Thanks for the info, alu. "

" Thanks steph & MJH too, for the info. Much as this topic interests me, I kind of stopped reading about it when I stopped teaching human development.

No children; never had first-hand knowledge of being parent thinking about best schools, etc. But it's one of the most important issues we have to think about, with the mightiest impacts. "

" FP, I also appreciate your input. I agree with the voucher system because it will allow parents to take their children to the educational system which best fits their educational philosophy. Families deserve to have choice. I have very mixed feeling with either Unions or corporations controlling education, though.

Now, if a corporation wants to fund a charter school which essentially trains students to work at their facility, a type of trade school environment as someone suggested, the school can be funded with a voucher system. If they do a lousy job of attracting students to their school, oh well, they can either improve the school or give it up. "

" Also, one of the reasons charter schools may not score as high on scholastic tests could have something to do with the differences in how much students are prepared for scholastic tests in Charter and Public schools.

Tthe whole idea behind a charter school is allowing more freedom in academic delivery. For example, one of the Napa Charter Schools focuses on language. These students are taught to read, write, communicate in Spanish. It's a dynamic place. I've been there before. The classrooms are filled with all types of projects. Students appear more content, in general. But the focus is not on passing scholastic tests.

I've observed regular public schools coaching their students on passing tests for weeks or longer. In fact, I think it's gotten to the point where high scores have become the only objective. Charter schools aren't even trying to compete with that. If a student is busy learning to write an entire essay in Spanish, the focus will not be entirely on scoring high on a scholastic test, nor should it be. "