Off-duty cop beaten | Napa Valley Register

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Off-duty cop beaten

Tuesday, November 03, 2009

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By ALISHA WYMAN
Register Staff Writer

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Three Napa men were arrested after a fight with an off duty Vallejo Police officer Sunday.

At 1:45 a.m., Napa Police responded to Golden Gate Circle to the report of a disturbance.

The victim told them that some loud noise had awakened him, police said. He went outside and asked the people to quiet down, and an argument ensued, police said.

At some time during the confrontation, the victim told the men he was a police officer.

A man later identified as Paul Kevin Brewer, 20, hit him in the side of the face with a beverage container, either a bottle or a can, police said.

A physical fight continued, in which the victim suffered numerous cuts and scrapes, police said. He retreated to his residence, with a second suspect, Steven Robert Torres, 24, following.

The victim armed himself with a handgun, so Torres left the victim’s home, police said.

Torres and Brewer went and got some friends and returned to the victim’s residence, pounding on his door and threatening to kill him, police said.

The victim called 911, so officers responded and the subjects ran away.

Following an investigation, police arrested Torres, Brewer and Joshua Bagg, 19.

Torres was booked on suspicion of assault on a police officer and violation of probation. Brewer was booked on suspicion of assault with a deadly weapon, making criminal threats and violation of probation.

Bagg was booked on suspicion of violation of probation.

78 comment(s)

alixzander wrote on Nov 3, 2009 12:49 AM:

" this demonstrates the hostile perception that many napa residents have toward police. "

Ephemerol wrote on Nov 3, 2009 4:07 AM:

" This is the new normal for so called "young people" ( teens and 20s somethings ). I am always armed when I go out of my apartment to investigate any noises at night, however ( very important note now ) I never confront any such riff raff, but call in the local police via my cell phone from a secure and safe position. Even then I have seen them here locally where I live, laugh at police, taunt them and throw bottles etc. Society should now seriously consider and weigh -- and I mean this -- major life long tax credits or better yet cash incentives to pay people *not* to have children or if they do to attend an ongoing and in-depth series of interactive lectures on healthy child development and involved parenting. Will all of this happen? Nope. We do not live in country that values 'people making' or healthy / happy adults or children. "

king julian wrote on Nov 3, 2009 5:33 AM:

" I think that the wrong words were used in the article "a MAN later identified...", would a MAN blindside someone with a beverage can? A beverage can, oh let me think, I think that I'll hit a cop with my "Dr. Pepper" can, or was it a beer can? "

napaoldguy wrote on Nov 3, 2009 6:03 AM:

" young people don't respect anyone anymore, but if the policeman would of kicked their butt he would be in trouble "

ambonizay wrote on Nov 3, 2009 6:46 AM:

" It was in fact a slim fast diet can vanilla flavor. "

alixzander wrote on Nov 3, 2009 7:00 AM:

" hey, to all you people refering to them as dirt bags and rift raft: this is what happens when you live a town that neglects and marginalizes its youth! this is what happens when wine and tourism is valued above locals! this is what happens when a town doesn't have an art space, community center or music venue! this is what happens when a city has ordinance, such as intolerant sound regulation, discriminative loitering laws, and bad zoning, which effectively criminalize youth for being youth!

Ephemerol, your proposal is completely off point. you are firstly recognize a form of collective obligation by suggesting society take action. but instead of urging society analyze ways in which they might have contributed to the condition that inclines to this behavior, your answer is encourage people to not have kids?

bottom line: until all the adults start to genuinely listen to the young people, these incidences will likely continue and as far as i am concerned they have no right to complain. "

firststreetmayor wrote on Nov 3, 2009 7:40 AM:

" alixzander wrote on Nov 3, 2009 12:49 AM:
" this demonstrates the hostile perception that many napa residents have toward police. "

Was this gang related ? or were their gang members in the group, I have heard threw younger people that the gang members in Napa are very violent when it comes to police.

I do have a question, maybe captinLee01 or anyone else in the police force might be able to answer,
why didn't the officer or now the victim show his badge and identify himself ? "

Kathy Concened wrote on Nov 3, 2009 8:09 AM:

" When the "police officer" went outside at 1:45 am you must figure they have been drinking or some drugs. When communication broke down he should have kept his mouth shut about being a police officer (outnumbered) and went back to his residence and called the local police to handle this mess. After all, he has to live there... I noticed his first reaction was to grab a gun. Why escalate this? "

sprklsunshine wrote on Nov 3, 2009 8:25 AM:

" What this demonstrates is the gang/machismo mentality in our society today. People have no respect for one another anymore; the Richmond gang rape is a perfect example of society gone awry. They think life is a video game. "

roodog wrote on Nov 3, 2009 8:48 AM:

" alixzander - this type of behavior comes from individuals who were raised without rules. This has nothing to do with where they were raised, but how they were raised. I am so tired of people making excuses for disrespectful, arrogant and violent young people. They may be over 18, so-called adults, but their actions are a definite reflection on the people who raised them and failed to instill any kind of decency in them. Plenty of people have raised children in Napa, myself included, and those children have become responsible, respectful young adults in this community. Sorry alixzander, but your argument is self-serving hogwash. I wish the officer a speedy recovery. "

mafi wrote on Nov 3, 2009 9:02 AM:

" NVR serioulsy just reported where the officer lives??!! "

random name here wrote on Nov 3, 2009 9:16 AM:

" This never would have happened if we had a skating rink. That stayed open until 2AM. And served alcohol.

I think I'm just going to start renting out pairs of skates at a bar. "

mafi wrote on Nov 3, 2009 9:27 AM:

" NVR- How about "a residence in South Napa... "

YOJOJO wrote on Nov 3, 2009 9:30 AM:

" I have to agree with alixzander, lets work on finding some outlets for our young people, like skating rinks etc. the rest of you don't know these young people there is a story behind every one of us! you should think before you react these people may have families that care about them but have no control for various reasons I happen to know one of these troubled people please stop the name calling hopefully no one in your family ever has the opportunity to have unknown people say horrible things about them I'am horrified that the officer had to go thru this & I hope he is ok! "

Explorer wrote on Nov 3, 2009 9:38 AM:

" These guys scream winners to me. "

itsroutine wrote on Nov 3, 2009 9:54 AM:

" Alix, there's a TON of information missing before one can completely condemn them, or defend them.

Do you know something we don't know? Are these guys in a local band and they got hassled for practicing too loudly or something?

From the looks of it though, the actions described here are extremely cowardly. These guys don't sound like they deserve anyone's sympathy. "

So It Goes wrote on Nov 3, 2009 9:56 AM:

" alixander
Although I applaud your passion for seeking programs and recognition for the youth in Napa, I believe placing blame on society’s adults for not addressing the youth in Napa’s recreational options is a real stretch.

Attacking the wine industry and tourism, as well as our local city ordinances and laws could alienate those you are trying to influence for change.

You said, “…urging society analyze ways in which they might have contributed to the condition that inclines to this behavior…”

Alixander, do you really believe our local community is responsible for these men’s behaviors? "

notanapanative wrote on Nov 3, 2009 9:58 AM:

" The residents of GG Circle, and the residents of Napa appear to be lucky that a off duty police officer made the initial contact.

There is no excuse, NONE, for this kind of behavior (Alixzander) to anyone, police or regular citizen.

The issues of art space etc. have nothing to do with loud parties late at night.

Put simply just because one group of citizens want something does not mean that the majority have to provide it.

We all get to VOTE for candidates that reflect our views, that is the way democracy deals with resource allocation.

By no means is it perfect, far from it, but it is far better than any other system.

As for the violent response to the officer, prison for a few years is where these folks deserve to be, not out among law abiding citizens.

We have a social contract, commit violent crimes go to jail. The more of them you commit or the more severe, the longer you are put away.

Peaceful debate and advocacy is strongly supported and encouraged, violence is not.

Good riddance to these bad characters, thank you to the Police Officer! "

So It Goes wrote on Nov 3, 2009 10:01 AM:

" Alixzander,
If I were going to “analyze” this for a minute or two as you suggest, I would have to say:
No matter how much availability to after school sports, art programs, parks, rock climbing, volunteer opportunities, clubs, etc…..
Napa citizens and representatives DID NOT contribute to these guy’s criminal actions or violence toward this local citizen.
Alexander…come on…

I urge you to examine the concepts of personal life choices and personal responsibility.
These were not “bored,” under age youths.
These were adult men disturbing the peace and assaulting and beating an unarmed local citizen.

The “insanity” defense is very hard to use in criminal matters.
Are you going to take up the cause for the “bored” and “marginalized” defense for anyone under 25 years old?
I’m over thirty and I often have feelings of being “bored” and “marginalized.” And sometimes I feel angry.

Advocate for your beliefs Alixzander, but don’t appear to condone anger and violence as a way of protesting feelings of the youth in Napa being “marginalized.”

Rock on Alixzander, continue to advocate for youth in Napa. "

funnyme wrote on Nov 3, 2009 10:07 AM:

" So glad the officer didn't get hurt badly.
Now I wonder of retaliation from these "fine young men" and their friends...Maybe Alixander can teach them how to behave properly among civil societies.

"L" (biggest ones!) "

Realist2 wrote on Nov 3, 2009 10:15 AM:

" To alixzander-

The town is not responsible for the youth. THEIR PARENTS are...It is their respsonisbility to raise them and keep them entertained. There are plenty of areas to get them involved if you REALLY want to. If you do not feel this is a good place to raise responsible kids into being responsible adults than I suggest you either do not have kids or you move somewhere else to have them.
I am amused that you want to blame the actions of these individuals on the fact that Napa is about wine and tourism. "

ambonizay wrote on Nov 3, 2009 10:23 AM:

" Why does this Vallejo off duty cop think he has a right to take matters in his own hands when there is noise outside his condo while off duty? A reasonable and prudent citizen, much less a cop off duty, would call the local police if a disturbance is happening near the home; however this person chose to try to take matters into his owns hands, and got beaten for his unwise choice. I have zero sempathy for this decision by the off duty cop. "

Corey wrote on Nov 3, 2009 10:25 AM:

" Drunk and attacking a cop? Ah, Darwinism at work! "

ambonizay wrote on Nov 3, 2009 10:26 AM:

" The off duty Vallejo cop instigated the incident when he went outside and took matters into his own hands rather than call the Napa Police. He then got his butt kicked big time. "

itsroutine wrote on Nov 3, 2009 10:51 AM:

" Ambonizay,

I disagree with your statements about the cop being the instigator. Again, we don't have all the facts, but I don't think a citizen taking responsibility for the well being of their neighborhood is a bad thing.

No matter what happened, those young men had no right to gang up and attack him. I don't care if he cursed at them, spit in their faces, or disrespected their mothers. They had no right to do what they did. The fact that they reacted in such a way is proof they have very big issues. "

tiredofcomplainingnapkins wrote on Nov 3, 2009 11:18 AM:

" To alixzander,

I get the impressions by your comments you frequently make that you like to blame society for people problems. You don't ever take into consideration personal responsibility. Thats the one thing about humans is we always have the ability to make a conscience decision. Some people are just bad people because they decide to be bad people, doesn't matter what kind of outside factors you induce into their lives. The other disagreement I have with your comment is you say this is what happends when theres nothing for the youth to do. These guy aren't the youth, They are full grown men and if they can't make the conscience decision of right and wrong by that age then there is a place for them, Its called jail. I

To ambonizay,

I disagree with you that the cop instigated this, If I had my music or tv on to loud I would be glad that a neighbor came and told me to turn it down instead of calling a police officer. No need to waste the cops time from doing something more important. But then again I'm a civilized human being unlike these men "

YOUNGNAP wrote on Nov 3, 2009 11:22 AM:

" Ambonizay,

Just because you lack the fortitude to handle your own business, dont critisize the actions of people who do it on a nightly basis. And think again if you think he got his butt kicked. "

whoa cowboy wrote on Nov 3, 2009 11:23 AM:

" Oh give me a break....lets open a skating rink to keep kids out of trouble. If you open a skating rink (which I am in favor of) it will mostly be the good kids, who already keep out of trouble, who go. If the kids who need to be kept out of trouble go they will cause trouble there too. "

crooked6pence wrote on Nov 3, 2009 11:30 AM:

" I can see it now:

3 guys arguing outside waking up their neighbors. One neighbor comes out in his pj's and tells these 3 already angry guys to pipe down, they then proceed to attack him. He yells, "I am a cop"

The 3 guys are like, "yeah, sure you are" and the flogging continues until the cop beats a hasty retreat to the safety of his house.

The 3 guys aren't satisfied and decide they haven't had enough, and proceed to beat on his door.

The officer who wasn't going to call the local police initially, because he was embarrassed about how he handled the situation and the beating he received, now decides he needs backup - and calls the cops.

Next time call for backup first, especially if you want to make the claim that you are a police officer when out of uniform.

If you still feel brave, take your badge and gun with you and alert these guys that you are a police officer and that the police have been called and are on the way!

This applies whether you are an ordinary citizen or a police officer who happens to be off duty. "

eas001 wrote on Nov 3, 2009 12:02 PM:

" Again with blaming 'nothing to do for youth'. There are actually plenty of young kids in Napa who would never do this! You just don't hear about them because they are not getting into trouble!

I've said it before and I'll say it again, there IS plenty to do in Napa - bicycle, hike, take classes, WORK!, volunteer, act, sign, dance, etc.

And while it may be bad parenting two of these MEN were not teenagers anymore, time to start acting like adults with responsibility. Be productive members of society, not parasites. "

reason-ator wrote on Nov 3, 2009 12:13 PM:

" Wow.

I could have done a lot more bad stuff if I'd known I had excuses already in place for doing it.

I could have blamed everybody else instead of myself. "

realist2 wrote on Nov 3, 2009 12:20 PM:

" ambonizay-Was this the officer's fault too?

"Torres and Brewer went and got some friends and returned to the victim’s residence, pounding on his door and threatening to kill him, police said."

It's probably because they where still bored and couldn't get into the Community Center...Dang city government put down your wine glasses and quit worrying about tourism and take care of these poor boys. "

antipc wrote on Nov 3, 2009 12:21 PM:

" alix, did you not notice all three of these princes were on probation?

Well said tiredof. "

NapaFF wrote on Nov 3, 2009 12:49 PM:

" When I grew up back in the sixties there was very little for teenagers & young adults to do in my town either. We hung out with friends, went to movies, bowling, etc. While we did occasionally overstep our bounds, we NEVER physically assaulted anyone, because we were raised to respect other people and were taught right from wrong.

These guys that acted out against the policeman vented on him there unhappiness and dissatisfaction with there OWN lives, trying to blame him for their problems.

It wouldn’t matter if there were an ice rink, roller rink, or anything else in town. Guys like this would just show up there and cause trouble because that’s “who they are” … it’s part of their DNA. "

Cowboy wrote on Nov 3, 2009 1:46 PM:

" Don't forget that cops can sometimes behave like real jerks. He went into this situation as a citizen, and only when confronted claimed to be a cop when he couldn't handle it properly.

He should have called NPD in the first place instead of becoming part of the problem. My guess is that his machismo didn't hold up with those drunks, so they chased him down. The cop is not blameless. Claiming he was a cop just inflamed them more.

Something much less than professional happened here. "

napabicycler wrote on Nov 3, 2009 2:43 PM:

" I disagree cowboy. We had a situation were we very politely asked our neighbors to turn down their stereo as they arrive home everyday (so as not to shake the pictures off our walls). It instantly turned into a chest-puffing, who the heck are you to ask me to be respectful in my neighborhood situation, which shortly thereafter escalated into the cops having to be called. Now their friends purposely cruise our street with their stereos blazing. Oh, and by the way, the first time we called the cops they suggested we talk to them neighbor-to-neighbor. In other words, they wanted us to deal with it ourselves before the police got involved. Now its just a big ugly mess that won’t move away. People have no consideration of others anymore. "

Paddy wrote on Nov 3, 2009 2:58 PM:

" Some the comments from the 'a' team are.... incredible. Quieting down a loud, obnoxious group at 1:45 AM makes the cop the bad guy.

I'm sure giving these guys ice skates will take care of any festering issues they have. They sound like real winners underneath the bluster.

Wow! "

alucawanza wrote on Nov 3, 2009 3:51 PM:

" Well said, tiredofcomplainingnapkins! I am in total agreement.

And reasonator! We agree! How about that?
Your last sentence says it all.

There would be no reasoning with these three criminals (all on probation) no matter who you were. And, indeed, given activities to do such as ice skating, they would sabotage any effort made to "socialize" them. Obviously they are "out of control." One of them actually followed the victim into his home. He's lucky he wasn't shot. Think of the gun owners out there who know they can shoot an intruder in their home. It could have been a lot worse. The police officer showed much constraint...behaved correctly.

Would be interesting to know what they are on probation for. "

JustMyyOpinion wrote on Nov 3, 2009 5:03 PM:

" king julian, the article says a "beverage container" not a "beverage can". It most likely was a bottle. I've never heard of anyone using a can as a weapon, but a bottle, yeah, many times. "

WildWillie wrote on Nov 3, 2009 5:51 PM:

" I cant see how any of you can make the statments your are making from what little info that is here.I think you should wait and hear all the facts before jumping to either side. Alsp keep in mind in Napa he is just John Q Public not a cop. His mouth telling them he was a cop and trying to do something himself,insteed of calling the real Napa Police is what got his butt kicked. Too many cops try to be cops when off duty and out of jurisdiction while in reality they are just one of us. When a cop is on duty and in uniform they deserve respect but when off duty they need to act like a reg citizen and call the real cops instead of taking the law in their own hands. "

fishfry wrote on Nov 3, 2009 6:02 PM:

" ambonizay, are you for real?! A guy was beaten up for trying to take care of his home and his neighbors. I read your comments and think, "this is satire, he's not serious."

Good for the off-duty cop for trying to solve the problem without involving our over-worked police. I would like to applaud him for his efforts, I wish he lived in my neighborhood. Neighbors should look out for each other! "

grape wrote on Nov 3, 2009 6:29 PM:

" WildWillie, you tell people to not make judgements yet you made a judgement against the cop.

The cop DID act like a citizen and first tried to handle the problem like an adult. If the cop had wanted to throw his cop weight around he would have first come down with his gun but he did not. Unfortunately the undisciplined youth are like many youth these days and raised without any rules, any respect for authority, etc. They even had the nerve to follow him to his home where he was forced to get his weapon out.

I fear for this cop now. The type of friends these perps keep they will surely send more of their evil friends to do him harm. "

diehard4ever wrote on Nov 3, 2009 6:40 PM:

" alixzander-
You are dead wrong. If you were right, there would be HUNDREDS more joy riders and car thieves (under 21). DISCIPLINE IS THE PROBLEM. I'm going to guess that those of you who say (and I know it's true) that there was VERY little disrespect for elders, the police, teachers etc. back when you were kids were HEAVILY disciplined when you disrespected any of the above? It's not hard to see what the real problem is. "

fedupinnapa wrote on Nov 3, 2009 6:49 PM:

" I cannot believe people here are blaming this person cop or not for being beaten. If three thugs are being noisy in front of my house and I tell them to move on they have the right to beat me? What kind of western cowboy world do you live in when someone says something you do not like you can beat them? It is called a civil society people just because you don’t like someone or they say something bad about you does not give you the right to beat them. "

alixzander wrote on Nov 3, 2009 6:51 PM:

" There were lots of rebuttals so I’ll try to address them broadly.
I recognize that these were legal adults. But they were young adults and likely were teenagers in this town. My arguments were directed against the claim that this behavior is the “new normal” for “young people”. Apparently, Epemerol resents the “young people” to such a degree that he/she needs to arm themselves. If this behavior is the “new normal” (which has yet to be proven) then what made it new? What caused this “new normal” pattern to develop? I would suggest environmental factors contributed. And many people left comments that agreed with this premise. People have suggested that bad parenting could have been a factor. Epemerol proposed that society implement “cash incentives to pay people *not* to have children”. So, Epemerol seems to feel that society is obligated to address the issue. And if society is obligated why wouldn’t society want to analyze the root of the problem? Why wouldn’t society want to remedy the environmental factors that contributed to the problem?
What environmental factors might be contributing to the problem? I cited poorly written ordinances, bad zoning, lack of outlets, and focus on wine and tourism at the local’s expense. These are areas that I suggest are at the root of the problem need to be looked at. I am concerned with critiquing the root of the problem whether it does or doesn’t rub people the wrong way. I am all about open and honest discussion. But I won’t back down from critique even if some people don’t like it. Someone needs to do it and I am willing to take the brunt for it.
Concerning personal responsibility, I certainly am not suggesting that personal responsibility shouldn’t be factored. I would submit that ones environment "

vocal-de-local wrote on Nov 3, 2009 7:47 PM:

" WildWillie, I don't care if a cop is on duty, off duty, or it's a "regular" citizen responding to a threat in the neighborhood. NO ONE deserves the type of treatment this person received.

I realize that some of you bloggers were raised in a "blame culture". I wish you would take it somewhere else because you are undoubtedly going to pass the trait down to your offspring.

I agree with Ephemerol's solution. Seriously. "

marigold83 wrote on Nov 3, 2009 7:53 PM:

" I happen to know alot of teenagers and young adults, and they would never act like this. They always seem to find something to do without breaking any laws. If any of them had to be asked to quiet down by a neighbor they would be embarrassed.
For yojojo if anyone I knew ended up in the paper for breaking a law, I would tell them thats what you get for being stupid. To Alixzander if any of my friends were to end up in trouble with the law they would only blame themselves, but my friends never put themselves in a situation where they end up breaking laws. "

tiredofcomplainingnapkins wrote on Nov 3, 2009 8:01 PM:

" To wildwillie,

Your wrong about a cop being just one of us when not on duty. Cops are held to a higher standard of law at all times, even when not on duty. They have to follow certain procedures and must intervene in situations even when not on duty. If someone was hurt on the side of the road a cop must stop and help or can risk being fired or punished by the law, a regular citizen could just keep driving and not have to help. "

Mamyt wrote on Nov 3, 2009 8:07 PM:

" So Napa's civil servants can not afford to live in Napa but Vallejo's can? "

WildWillie wrote on Nov 3, 2009 9:54 PM:

" Fishfry I fail to see how load music had anything to do with his or his neighbors house. And he was not a good off duty cop at all. He was off duty and not a Napa cop at all that makes him no diff from the guys who he was trying to scare by using his off duty out of jurisdiction cop stuff but it backfired.And his he should have called the real onduty Napa cops for his problem not take it in his own off duty out town badge to bully them. Maybe he needs to be charged and for sure needs to be reveiwed by the Vallejo PD and hopefully suspended "

thoughtank wrote on Nov 3, 2009 11:12 PM:

" Let's give the off-duty cop a little slack here. After all, he was the victim of an assault.

These young men are what used to be known as thugs. That three of them were on probation is no surprise to me. I bet they were all drunk and/or doing drugs.

I think the officer would have been better off just calling the police, too, but he probably didn't imagine that the situation would escalate like it did. This officer has to be pretty tough if he works as a Vallejo p.o. so he probably thought he could handle some loud neighbors.
Why weren't the other neighbors calling the police? My guess is that they were intimidated by these punks. Gangbangers can be very frightening as neighbors and retaliation is always an issue.
Glad the police officer wasn't seriously injured. Let's get these young men involved in some recreational activities like cleaning toilets in prison. They need such structured activities as they obviously have a challenging time finding constructive ways to keep from getting bored. "

notpc wrote on Nov 3, 2009 11:21 PM:

" I cam't believe the ignorance of some of these posts. A law enforcement officer is a sworn peace officer. Sworn to uphold the law. That means on or off duty. If one of your loved ones needed the help of a police officer would you want an off duty officer to just ignore the incident. What some of you don't get, is that police and firefighters on or off duty, if they see someone in distress they act its in their nature and we are all better off because of it. "

RetiredNapaCop wrote on Nov 4, 2009 12:31 AM:

" Commentors, unless the situation is major, off duty cops usually don't like calling the local PD over minor incidents, which to this Vallejo Police Officer, I'm sure seemed to be. Secondly, unless it is a major felony requiring deadly force, most off duty cops don't enter into a situation waving a badge and brandishing a gun. He certainly should not enter into a situation without one, concealed of course. Serious situations don't always afford a chance to call police.
It's the neighborly thing to ask those disturbing the peace to quiet down. Once he realized the caliber of the punks he was dealing with, I'm sure he wished he had not bothered, but by then the fight was on.
By identiying himself as a police officer, empowered to intervene as he was, any assault by suspects thereafter became a felony assault on an officer, on duty or not, with knowledge by the suspects, and much more serious for the offenders.
The officer obviously works a shift, and was perhaps trying to sleep, as the article mentioned, before going in to work.
Life is a judgement call. There are no guarantees that every situation will turn out well, and many don't. The fact that the suspects were all on probation (which they violated, and will probably be charged with) speaks to their behavior and character, or lack thereof.
There is nothing wrong with the officers behavior.
it is a sad commentary on Napa's youth that they feel they can respond to a civil request in this way. Certainly not the City's fault. These men are long past babysitting age. But jail can do it. And after age 18, they are no longer their parents problem, except for behavior like this.
Society in general is breaking down, the bar constantly lowered. "

JJtoob wrote on Nov 4, 2009 12:47 AM:

" JustMyyOpinion, it does say "either a bottle or can", and I believe king julian might even be sarcastic about it in his comment.
This whole "blame the community" versus "blame the parents" is the reasons things like the "australian school answering machine" exist. Heard of it? Google it, it's all funny, sad and... true...
And I believe that stating to be a cop should be respected instead of antagonizing. Whatever happened to respect? Even if he wasn't a cop, you don't beat the guy!
I'm sure he thought "I hate it when they call me for 'disturbance of peace' annoying calls, I'll handle this one as a citizen should" Unfortunately, he's proven the reason most people decide to call the cops in those cases. What will it take for people to respect authority? An iron fist? Anybody like totalitarianism? If people can't respect the peace of others, we'll eventually think there's no other option but to give up our freedoms so others lose them as well. You'll think I'm crazy until you are in this off-duty cop's position.
And I must say, the youth have so much power, they could change this city for the better if they wanted to. Some are already doing it!
My wish is for their parents to wake up, and for these young adults to have a change of heart; for the better, of course. "

local yokel wrote on Nov 4, 2009 6:47 AM:

" This sounded like a cockfight to me, a large dose of 'you don't get to tell ME what to do!'
I guess the officer misjudged the level of arrogance of these people, and thought if he told them he was a cop, they would back off.

It seems inevitable that we will all be paying for their room and board before too long.
The only cure for their attitudes is bread and water, priviledges to be earned. Unfotunately, jail is far from truly punitive - apart from the temporary restriction. "

wine nurse wrote on Nov 4, 2009 7:45 AM:

" My understanding is that a police officer even off duty has to identify himself in something like this.

Its unfortunate that he will now have to move. "

Realist2 wrote on Nov 4, 2009 9:01 AM:

" RetiredNapaCop-Thank you for your post...

WildWillie-What planet do you live on? "Maybe he needs to be charged and for sure needs to be reveiwed by the Vallejo PD and hopefully suspended "
Why should he be suspended?? You said he was just a citizen. Do citizens get suspended from their job because they make a request to another citizen?? "

NAPA NTV wrote on Nov 4, 2009 11:29 AM:

" Bottom line if your neigbors are to loud you should be able to talk to them what kind of City or World do we live in. 2nd he identified himslef so if he was assulted it adds an extra PC charge. So good for the Officer. 3rd he armed himself be cause we live in AMERICA not Europe and because depending on how busy the NPD is it may take several minuets if not longer for a NPD to arrive. These people made there intent when he was struck with a can or bottle whatever. I would have done the same, start kicken my front door and there will be an issue. "

Lexme2 wrote on Nov 4, 2009 2:59 PM:

" Apparently my comments to Alixzander cannot make it to this page past the editor. I am being as nice as I possibly can. How do I say this? May I suggest inviting the criminals to your home so you may "enlighten" our "unfortunate, neglected, misunderstood" youth. You can't say it any nicer than that, I guess I will see if this makes it on the board. "

notpc wrote on Nov 4, 2009 6:34 PM:

" To:Lexme2- I also have had no luck in attempting to rebut Alixander and his way of thinking. I just wanted you to know that you are not the only one out there thats tired of all the justification for disrespect of law enforcement, peoples property and any other form of anarchy. "

napahawaiinapa wrote on Nov 5, 2009 1:29 AM:

" If nothing happened, and the off-duty police officer went outside to ask people to keep it down, in a nice manner, and they did, would the off-duty police officer be noticed at all...NO...because there was an incident, why does the blame go to the cop? It's not just a few people that are noticed here to be childish though expect the so called 'thugs' to behave any differently??!! I think you have more to learn than most kids these days so maybe just...lay off, and everyone should get down off their 'high-horse' and let what happened be what it is, can't change it, and in due time, the story will explain itself and no one has to fight and get weird...it's not everyone's business anyway...that's how someone gets in trouble for opening-mouth at wrong time...please...peace.... "

sprklsunshine wrote on Nov 5, 2009 8:33 AM:

" Down the road a bit I think Alizxander will start to realize the consequences of his actions: he is on this blog, spewing his beliefs about what an unjust society we live in where corporations prosecute the people who steal from them, the city ignores its youth, viva la revolution, blah, blah, blah, and what is going to happen is that the people he wants to ‘donate’ their property, ‘donate’ their resources, ‘donate’ their time to his cause will see what a lack of respect he has and how entitled he seems to think the ‘youth’ of Napa are, and his cash cows will dry up and blow away. I wouldn’t want to be involved with anything he is touting for fear of the fallout of what he seems to think is his ‘right’ as a ‘bored’ youth in Napa. "

reason-ator wrote on Nov 5, 2009 11:37 AM:

" You know, alix is right when he says the world is not a perfect place and I think we all wish it was better. Unfortunately, it is the reality that we live in and we all should deal with it and focus on making the best of it rather than spend too much effort bemoaning the fact that it's not what we want.

But I gotta wonder about the people who are focussing on the cop's involvement here. I wonder what they would have done if there had been three young people outside their house at night making noise.

Vallejo is different than Napa. Enjoy it. We should be able to ask our neighbors to be considerate without being attacked. But I'll admit that you probably might get better results with a better attitude than one might have if they deal with Vallejo's problem citizens on a daily basis. I don't think I could do it, and I respect those that can and I'm glad that they're there.

But I gotta say Vallejo is different than Napa "

notpc wrote on Nov 5, 2009 2:00 PM:

" Napa may be different from Vallejo but do not ever take it for granted. The only way Napa can maintain a good quality of life is for all law abiding citizens to be proactive and get involved. If you see or suspect criminal activity we all have to notify the police. We have to have a zero tolerance for criminal activity. "

JAOR5816 wrote on Nov 5, 2009 11:18 PM:

" ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE. Young people are so ignorant and disrespectful these days. I've gone to my neighbors SEVERAL times to ask them to quiet down. Fortunately for me they never turned on me. It's good that he informed them (after the attack) that he was an officer. Now they beat him knowing he was an off duty officer. I smell a felony. I hope they get put away for a LONG time. I hope their parents are ashamed of their children and themselves. "

alixzander wrote on Nov 7, 2009 12:19 AM:

" wow,
i am shocked that people are still replying to my comments. there was a lot said so i'll just reply very generally.

all i am suggesting is that environment does influence people's behavior. and if a person's environment is one of disrespect then it isn't unreasonable to expect that the person's reaction will be disrespectful. i've attended city meetings, i've read the legal language of napa's sound and entertainment ordinances, i've interviewed young people and even business owners, and i've analyzed patterns. this issue is complex and sadly just repeating the personal responsibility mantra won't fix the problem. the problem will only be solved if people start to be proactive. the problem will only be solved when people get out their and start making napa inclusive! start making napa a place where people of all ages, cultures and ethnicity can belong! start making napa vibrant! start teaching people how to rely on themselves and furthermore create support networks so we can live interdependently and not have to rely on government or corporations, this will only happen the people stop complaining how disrespectful youth start to do something. "

diehard4ever wrote on Nov 7, 2009 6:06 PM:

" alix-
You sound like a therapist/psychologist. Really. Enough with the "sensitive, wittle kiddies that just want a widdle love fwom society". It's not true. If my parents had the same mentality that you did towards raising me, I would easily be able to take advantage of it, and I would probably be in Juvie by now. But my parents aren't raising me like that. If I disrespect anyone, get in BIG trouble (drugs, Grand Theft Auto, etc), my phone will be snapped in half and my laptop will be snapped in half. For the big things, my parents would let me serve the FULL consequences. And I would learn from it. And because I KNOW that they would do that, I don't do illegal stuff. I don't disrespect police, teachers, elders, etc. And I know I will succeed because of this. If I can see this as a 13 year old girl, why can't you? "

alucawanza wrote on Nov 8, 2009 12:03 AM:

" Angelina
You do the right thing not just because your parents will punish you. You follow the right course because your parents model the right course for you. They've taught you values. You don't do illegal "stuff" because its wrong, not because of fear. "

alixzander wrote on Nov 8, 2009 12:59 AM:

" you are completely sidestepping the fact that environment, to an extent, effects behavior. actually, your examples of parental disciple (which are environmental factors) would validate my premise.

"If my parents had the same mentality that you did towards raising me, I would easily be able to take advantage of it"
this says more about your own flaws then it does about the needs of youth and people in general. "

diehard4ever wrote on Nov 8, 2009 11:39 AM:

" alu-
Yes, that too, but it would be easier to do the illegal things and have my parents get me out of trouble. But I don't, because that is what I have been taught, through DISCIPLINE.

alix-
I said I would be able o take advantage of it, which means ANYONE would be able to take advantage of it.

Can you repeat the first part in a simpler way? PLease? "

alixzander wrote on Nov 8, 2009 4:03 PM:

" i just disagree with your paradigm. i think alu was on to something. parents model desirable behavior. and where does this tendency for some children to take advantage of their parents come from? that is the crux of it. your line of logic seems to suggest its rooted within flawed human nature and that's simply a premise i don't accept. people are taught to take advantage of people, just as children are taught good behavior by their parent's example. so then, if a parent is modeling good behavior the child likely won't take advantage of the parents.

hmm, so in that case i don't retract my former statement. it does reflect your own character. most children being raised in a truly loving and interdependent environment would not take advantage of it. "

napahawaiinapa wrote on Nov 9, 2009 1:09 AM:

" alixzander...if you are only 13, of course you haven't done anything illegal...that tendency (and I say, tendency) happens in about a year...watch how you judge people...being humble, and leaving out ridicule is what you haven't learned and those are more valuable than anything..and you will learn this later down the road...I have yet to hear my mother say, "I love you", to me, and I have two children of my own who are better than ever, because I did not 'model after my parents'...remember to have your own mind or someone else will...then you will stay out of trouble in the most trying years of your life, the next 80 to be exact. Follow humbly from parents and you will be a leader every time!!!! "

napahawaiinapa wrote on Nov 9, 2009 1:12 AM:

" diehard4ever...The comment I sent was meant for you...SORRY alixzander... diehard4ever's comments are rude and threw me for a loop... "

tiredofcomplainingnapkins wrote on Nov 9, 2009 11:40 AM:

" To alixzander,

I semi-disagree with your premise that flawed human nature is learned from experience and not something someone is born with it. I do agree in many cases it is learned, but not in all cases. Theres a great line in the new Batman movie, if you've seen it, then you know what I'm referring too. Alfred is talking about how some people steal or commit acts of terror. He says some people don't do it because they have something they want to gain, They do it because they simply want to see the world burn. Now you can build all the skating rinks, or have all the concerts or art shows you want in this town, you can reach all the way to the soul of some of these people who committed this crime, but your probably going to find that some of these people just want to see the world burn. "

alixzander wrote on Nov 9, 2009 10:42 PM:

" Where does this nihilistic desire to watch the world burn dwell? It certainly isn’t a natural desire. Why would a sane person want to destroy the world, the sustainer of life? Other animals don’t commit atrocities just to watch the world burn, to destroy for the sake of destruction. And this nihilistic desire doesn’t seem to exist in human societies before the agriculture revolution. This desire doesn’t exist in tribalist hunter gather societies. Therefore, it can’t be a universal human desire. What is it rooted in then? I’d submit that it’s rooted within the power structures that rule our lives. It’s rooted within the system. It’s rooted within the core of civilization.
Do some people want to see the world burn? Or do they want to see the system burn? "

tiredofcomplainingnapkins wrote on Nov 9, 2009 11:18 PM:

" To alixzander,

You weren't alive during tribalst hunter societies, or the agriculture revolution, so it couldve been happending during those times, and theres just no record of it because records from those time are few. And to call humans animals isn't correct either, your right animals don't commit atrocities to watch the world burn. Animals also adapt to their environment, humans don't, we destroy are resources and spread out and find more resources and destroy more. It can be a human desire to watch the world burn because humans are unlike any other species on the planet and our brains are more complex then anything we can imagine, So I say some people do just want to see destruction and hurt, because thats what they like and what makes them feel good "

alixzander wrote on Nov 10, 2009 4:19 PM:

" Tiredofcomplainingnapkins,
While there aren’t any written records from pre-agriculture revolution times, there is evidence in the form of campsites, fossils, and artifacts that help paint a picture of human existence at that time. Additionally, some tribalist human societies survived the agriculture revolution and exist to this day. So we do have models that can be observed to draw inferences and conclusions about early human existence. What is the bases for your claim that humans aren’t animals? Humans have been and are subjected to the same evolutionary processes that all life is. Humans in fact, based upon evidence extracted from the Neolithic times and real life models, lived lives that were adapted to the earth for the majority of their existence. The pattern of destroying resources and spreading out and destroying more emerged after the agriculture revolution. This is something that can be learned in basic anthropology classes. Therefore, the nihilistic desire to destroy the world for the sake of destruction can’t be considered a universal human characteristic. It is a phenomenon that occurs in the structure of civilization. "

tiredofcomplainingnapkins wrote on Nov 11, 2009 12:01 AM:

" To alixzander,

I never said the desire to destroy the world is a universal human characteristic, although I do believe it is a characteristic in certain humans, Just as some people have the characteristic for giving and giving. You say, "It is a phenomenon that occurs in the structure of civilization. " But who created these structured civilizations? Humans did. So Humans created structured civilizations that directly are leading to the destruction of the world, Therefore humans are destroying the world because its in some human genetics to create something that can destroy us. So it must be a trait, or these civilizations never wouldve been created. "

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