Vocal crowd turns out for health care forum

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Ira Saletan, right, speaks to the crowd of about 500 people who attended a health care forum at the First United Methodist Church in Napa on Monday evening. The Community Health Care Outreach and Reform Project sponsored the forum called “Health Care Reform and Our Community.” J.L. Sousa/Register photos | Buy photos
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A crowd of about 500 people attended a health care forum at the First United Methodist Church in Napa on Monday evening. “Health Care Reform and Our Community” was presented by the Community Health Care Outreach and Reform Project. | Buy photos
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Rep. Mike Thompson, with back to camera, answers questions following a health care forum at the First United Methodist Church. | Buy photos
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Dr. Cathy Hoffman, board president of the Napa County Children’s Health Initiative, addresses the crowd of about 500 people who attended the health care forum at the First United Methodist Church in Napa on Monday evening. | Buy photos
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About 500 people attended a health care forum at the First United Methodist Church in Napa on Monday evening, sponsored by the Community Health Care Outreach and Reform Project. J.L. Sousa/Register | Buy photos
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A man who would not give his name, points to his child as he confronts Congressman Mike Thompson outside the First United Methodist Church on Monday evening at a health care forum. A panel of five people, including Thompson, spoke and answered questions, to a crowd of about 500 people attending the program which was sponsored by the Community Health Care Outreach and Reform Project. | Buy photos
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Congressman Mike Thompson listens as Ira Saleton welcomes the roughly 500 people attending a health care forum at the First United Methodist Church in Napa on Monday evening. Saleton is the coordinator of the Community Health Care Outreach and Reform Project. | Buy photos

Wednesday, August 05, 2009

Comment

By NATALIE HOFFMAN
Register Staff Writer

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3:30 p.m.A packed Napa church hosted a boisterous meeting Monday night regarding health care reform. The meeting drew some 500 people to listen to — and occasionally shout at — a panel of speakers that included Rep. Mike Thompson, D- St. Helena.

The audience at First United Methodist Church demonstrated varying policy viewpoints. Some asked mild questions, others pointed ones, and still others burst into verbal attacks at panel members.

Shouts of “This is America!” and “What’s wrong with profit?” emerged from a seated crowd in response to statements Napa County Health and Human Services Director Randy Snowden — a member of the panel — made about the overall rise in health care costs since the industry abandoned its nonprofit roots about 30 years ago.

“Right now, we don’t have a healthy, sustainable health care (program) in Napa County,” Snowden said.

A shout out of “What are the illegals costing us?” prompted little response from panel members, who answered pre-selected questions about how health care reform legislation would work and be paid for. Moderators, meanwhile, attempted to quiet some members of the crowd.

At the discussion’s center was H.R. 3200 — a measure largely supported by House Democrats and known as America’s Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009. The bill’s proponents, including Thompson, say the legislation would provide most Americans with affordable health care coverage. Its opponents say it’s expensive and would unfairly draw upon higher taxes for the wealthy.

Thompson said that between 2000 and 2007, the average health-care premium has increased by 97 percent, several times more than Californians’ average wage increases.

“The model of health care that we have today is not sustainable. ... Right now, one of every six dollars we earn in this country, we spend on health care,” he said, adding that employees and employers are more burdened than ever with skyrocketing healthcare costs.

Panelist Cathy Hoffman of the Napa County Children’s Health Initiative said affordability is the biggest question out there regarding health care coverage.

About 40 percent of Napa County families of four live on incomes less than $66,000 annually, and many of these people are without health insurance, Hoffman said. The uninsured, she said, are three to four times more likely to delay health care until they are very ill, passing costs on to other people instead of receiving preventative care that could prevent serious illness.

Beatrice Bostick, executive director of Clinic Ole — a nonprofit that provides health care to Medicare and Medi-Cal patients and the uninsured — said there has been a recent “tremendous surge” in the number of middle class, uninsured people coming to the clinic for care.

During 2007, she said, 18,000 uninsured patients came to the clinic for care in a year’s time. But that number has jumped to 24,000 people in the past 12 months.

“It’s not a matter of if our health care system is going to melt down,” she said. “It’s a matter of when.”

Thompson said H.R. 3200 would be paid for by about $500 billion saved by going after waste and fraud in the Medicare system, in addition to “changes in the (health care) delivery system” and other efficiencies. The remaining $500 billion would be generated by a surcharge against the income of the nation’s wealthiest 1.2 percent of residents, he said.

Thompson said the nation’s smallest businesses — those with nine or fewer employees and a payroll of less than $250,000 — would be exempt from having to pay for health coverage for workers.

More health care talk

Rep. Mike Thompson, D-St. Helena, is hosting a live town hall telephone meeting today from 7 to 8 p.m. about health care reform. People may call toll free (877) 229-8493 and enter the passcode 13293 to participate.

The Community Health Care Outreach and Reform Project, which sponsored Monday’s forum, hosts a follow-up meeting Sunday from 4:30 p.m. to 6 p.m. at First United Methodist Church, 625 Randolph St., Napa. Info, 320-3140.

250 comment(s)

thisisnotatest wrote on Aug 4, 2009 1:41 PM:

" Today: A bunch of people who only watch Fox news complain about a bill they don't really know anything about. "

naparedhead wrote on Aug 4, 2009 2:14 PM:

" They were amazingly rude. This behavior really isn't helping their cause. "

Napanate wrote on Aug 4, 2009 2:18 PM:

" I guess we know the memo regarding the Republican talking points made it to Napa in time for today's meeting. "

freeport56 wrote on Aug 4, 2009 2:19 PM:

" test-

How wrong you are. While you may have been there last night, you sure failed to talk to anyone. I have been doing research on the Bill, H.R. 3200 for a few weeks, and let me tell you that group of people you mention, have done their homework and are very well informed.

For weeks the net has been a buzz with what the Bill contains, what Mike Thompson would not address last night. He did however, quote the Democrat talking points to the "T".

Forced entry into a government run health care system that eliminates all competition, a Commissioner and Committee who will be setting up not only the type of benefits to be offered, but mandating the care you will receive.
Sure you can keep your private health insurance, but on Y1(first day of first year of Gov't HC) no new enrollments for private health care can take place. Treatment limits are capped, nurses become social workers, law enforcement, and birth advisor's(how many kids and when).

Doctors will be punished for not following prescribe treatment, unions being reimbursed for their health care costs, they will still get the same crummy health care, and the Government Health Care ID card will be used to collect your data and withdraw the cost of treatment from your bank account.

Mike brags that the Ways and Means committee spent 86 hours to recast a system that took 5,000 years to create.

I don't trust Thompson or the Central Government! Remember these guys write the laws for the industry! "

Alter ego wrote on Aug 4, 2009 2:30 PM:

" Actually thisisnotatest, it was a Democrat Congressman John Conyers who said:

"To get up and say, 'Read the bill.' What good is reading the bill if it's 1,000 pages and you don't have two days and two lawyers to find out what it means after you read the bill?"

So I wouldn't be throwing any stones at conservatives just yet. "

Bauhausfan wrote on Aug 4, 2009 2:38 PM:

" The real question is...will the Napa Valley Register accurately report what happened at this event or not.

I was there.

So far, this little blurb is doing exactly what I thought it would and I predicted this to a friend this morning who was also at the event. "

Hear Ye wrote on Aug 4, 2009 2:41 PM:

" Of course they were rude. They were organized nationally by lobbyists to disrupt town hall meetings by yelling and screaming over everyone. "

Bauhausfan wrote on Aug 4, 2009 2:42 PM:

" Alter Ego - were you there?

This was a planned disruption of the event just like the others that have gone on around the country. These people aren't interested in anything but disrupting the whole event. It was a disgusting display. "

alucawanza wrote on Aug 4, 2009 2:51 PM:

" Manipulation by the health industry. They OWN the right wing with their lobbying and investment in elections. That goes for Blue Dog dems too. "

wined0wnnapa wrote on Aug 4, 2009 2:53 PM:

" Can someone who knows give me a cliff notes version of how this will be paid for? "

grape wrote on Aug 4, 2009 2:54 PM:

" thisisnotatest wrote on Aug 4, 2009 1:41 PM:

" Today: A bunch of people who only watch Fox news complain about a bill they don't really know anything about. "
-------------

I'm just curious...how much do you yourself know about the bill you don't seem worried about? "

wyngyrl wrote on Aug 4, 2009 2:55 PM:

" So much ignorance, so little understanding. Guess we will get what we deserve - more bankruptcies, more unhealthy people, more highly paid CEO's. Or, as the President of PhRMA said the other day, "this nation will be sicker, poorer, and less competitive" if changes are not made. Sounds like a really bright future to me. "

freeport56 wrote on Aug 4, 2009 2:59 PM:

" napanate\naparedhead-

have you read the Bill?

Are you absolutely ready to give up freedom and liberty for a mandatory health care system for "us and THEM". Thompson is not bound by H.R. 3200. Are you kidding and give up his FEHB program, no way.

Bauhausfan-

The NVR often throws Thompson major softballs, like the interview after his telephone townhall (how useless is that). Last night you could have put him in a pants suit and he would have looked like Pelosi. "

lilrid wrote on Aug 4, 2009 3:00 PM:

" These "angry" responses and rhetoric are all well planned and coordinated. The health insurance industry is spending massive amounts of money to make sure any bill that will offer free health care won't pass. These town hall ambushes have been happening all across the country. "

rosalee3@sbcglobal.net wrote on Aug 4, 2009 3:01 PM:

" I guess we don't need legislation to increase stupidity. "

PastNapan wrote on Aug 4, 2009 3:09 PM:

" You libs astound me. We know exactly what is in this bill. We choose not to bury our heads in the sand and believe your messiahs lies. We're going to kill this bill before it sees the light of day. You can rationalize all you want just as you did with the tea parties that the townhall meetings going on now are a bunch of right wing extremists, tell that to the group of senior citizens Diane Feinstein had arrested last week in Los Angeles because they refused to leave without speaking to her about health care. Arresting the elderly, is that the example of "compassion" and "tolerance" liberals are always preaching? "

wined0wnnapa wrote on Aug 4, 2009 3:10 PM:

" the fact that a crowd was healthy enough to come out and have enough energy to yell and be loud is testament to the fact that healthcare in america is fine and doesnt need to be fixed. "

Bauhausfan wrote on Aug 4, 2009 3:16 PM:

" They followed the script that has been going around in emails and what they have seen on tv and online.

To listen to them the holy grail of health care reform is...tort reform! It was shouted out so many times you would think it was a meditation chant.

Again, I am waiting to see if the Register accurately portrays what happened and connects it with what has been going on around the country.

A certain political ideology is not interested in solutions at all. "

Raven wrote on Aug 4, 2009 3:23 PM:

" so....I am still.waiting for your or the GOP version of a health care plan freeport....last nite was a circus, staged not to inform but disrupt. "

naparedhead wrote on Aug 4, 2009 3:27 PM:

" PastNapan: Are you referring to the senior citizens who ACTUALLY HAVE socialized medicine, aka Medicare? "

sdnapa wrote on Aug 4, 2009 3:30 PM:

" i posted on another blog the website in which i got the actual language of HR 3200 and i asked anyone who could to explain to me exactly what it says. no one took the challenge. big surprise. it is too complicated to understand and it's full of lawyer language.

i dare say that people are upset about this because they are afraid of being just another number instead of a patient. additionally they are afraid because their parents & grandparents will be "counseled" every few years on their "right to die". why in the world would the government mandate counseling on the right to die to elderly people?

this doesn't concern any of you?

shame on us conservatives for having a different point on view on the "right to die". "

freeport56 wrote on Aug 4, 2009 3:33 PM:

" (sound of large buzzer)

Your conspiracy theories are all wrong, but they are good guesses. The Tea Party group ( a small portion of the attendees last night) were very surprised at the reaction to Thompson's talking points.

You see we are not conservatives, reps of the insurance industry, and are not being paid by Doctors groups.

We are an amalgamation of citizens gravely concerned with the bulk spending, hostile takeover of the health care industry, and an ever mounting national debt that Barry has quadrupled.

We have done our homework on what H.R. 3200 contains and it involves the destruction of our health care system, the destruction of the private health insurance providers, and the submission of the American people to government run health care.

We do not want socialized medicine, while we know the system needs to be fixed, H.R. 3200 in not the way. Medicare is broke, social Security is Broke, and if "Cash for Clunkers" is any indication of the management skills of the Obama Administration we are in BIG TROUBLE.

Thompson was not\has not been honest with regard to the bill's contents. Call those people that are angered by this false prophet legislation anything you want, but they are scared at what is being proposed. We will ALL suffer under this Bill while Thompson is secure in FEHCB system. "

Leah wrote on Aug 4, 2009 3:39 PM:

" I was there last night and I was angry, but I wasn't part of any group organized by out of town lobbyists. I don't think anyone there was. I knew many people who were there and they are just scared and angry that no one seems to be listening. Yes there were a few people who were rude, but that doesn't mean everyone there who did not agree with Thompson was rude. I'm opposed to the government growing larger every day and taking away the freedoms we have that makes this country great. I'm scared to death of rationed health care and medicines for senior citizens. When my children were little, we didn't always have health care and we didn't have a Clinic Ole either. We took our children to the doctor when we needed to and we paid for it ourselves, and we paid for the medicine ourselves too. That meant we usually had to go without somethings for a while. It also meant we didn't take them everytime they had a runny nose, just because we could. I was upset last night because I know Mike Thompson was not always being as truthful as he could have been. He voted against an amendment that would require him to be subject to the same healthcare he is trying to shove down our throats. I believe we do have the best healthcare system in the world. From what I have read, 90% of Americans are insured. 85% are very happy with their insurance. We do not need to destroy our entire system. We don't need to turn it upside down and backwards. We need to find another solution to help those who truly need the help. "

Bauhausfan wrote on Aug 4, 2009 3:42 PM:

" "the fact that a crowd was healthy enough to come out and have enough energy to yell and be loud is testament to the fact that healthcare in america is fine and doesnt need to be fixed."

Hilarious but about as accurate as saying the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. "

freeport56 wrote on Aug 4, 2009 3:46 PM:

" http://politicomafioso.blogspot.com/2009/07/republican-health-care-bill-introduced.html

and here is the Republican Platform
on health Care
http://www.gop.com/2008Platform/HealthCare.htm

Anything, but anything would be better than a.) your snide remarks or, b.) The enslavement of Americans under a health care reform act that is a mandate serving special interests (unions), illegal immigrants, and punishes Doctors.

As I have always been passionate in my debate with you Raven, I have always tried to present my side honestly. Last night was not staged. we did not know most of the people there. They came angry and left angrier by Thompson dodging questions. "

Bauhausfan wrote on Aug 4, 2009 3:48 PM:

" Freeport - Lots of people have been reading the health care bill and debunking the misinformation being put out.

Again, if it is going to be so bad then the insurance industry has nothing to worry about and would embrace it with open arms.

The fact that they are spending over a million dollars a day tells you they are very worried about their profits.

Certainly not worried about you. "

msdemo wrote on Aug 4, 2009 3:49 PM:

" Ah, the compassionate conservatives. Where are they now! Let's face it, regardless of what the bill contained it would still be opposed by the same people because it is not the issue it is the party line. We need to start somewhere and something is better than nothing. Spend an evening at the Queen emergency room or go to observe at Clinic Ole and then make the issue that we don't need health care for all. Other countries other than Canada and England have universal health care (not for profit) and the people are quite satisfied. Can we say the same.

And I would think those opposed would be embarrassed to be used by insurance companies to further their issues.

Have I read the pages of this bill - No but I use more than Fox news to gather information. "

post-it wrote on Aug 4, 2009 3:50 PM:

" anyone that claims tort reform is required, doesn't realize that in CA one is limited to 250K in non-economic damages - you know pain and suffering. That figure was arrived at in the 1975 legislation that has not ever changed. Juries can award higher damages, but the judge by law caps the award at 250K.

Also, contingency fees for lawyers are capped depending on the amount award. These fees get paid out of the economic award too. The economic award includes lost wages.

So the bottom line, if your doctor screws up in CA and you are unable to work, they are only on the hook for 250K pain and suffering and the lawyer you use will end up with a part of your calculated future earnings. If they drag out the lawsuit, you loose even more in lawyer fees. So then when you are injured and poor because you can no longer work, the taxpayers are supposed to then help you out as part of the social safety net....

What more tort reform do people want? binding arbitration? Why not just eliminate malpractice lawsuits altogether and just put the injured and maimed people directly on welfare? What happened to people being responsible for their actions? Remember the soldier that lost his legs at Travis recently? Even if he could sue (it is against the law to sue for malpractice if you are in the military) he would be limited to 250K pain and suffering for a screw up that cost him his legs. At the very least, this award amount should be adjusted after 35 years! "

freeport56 wrote on Aug 4, 2009 3:51 PM:

" If anyone would like plain english summaries of the Bill I would be happy to trade information through Dan Ross.

Just ask Dan to pass your email address to Freeport56. I would be glad to pass on the information. As a grant researcher for local government many years ago, it is rather easy to pick through the legalese. It is also a way legislators couch what they are really doing. 86 hours to change laws theu could have done years ago.

thsi is the Fox(regulators of the health care industry) guarding the Henhouse(health care industry). "

gateonfire wrote on Aug 4, 2009 3:51 PM:

" I too would like to know "what are the illegals costing us?" Lets see if the Napa Valley Register posts this and let's see what people estimate. "

Bauhausfan wrote on Aug 4, 2009 3:53 PM:

" Freeport - Medicare is going broke because we have a broken health care "system".

Social Security is not broke and can be easily fixed with very minor tweaks.

As for Cash for Clunkers...it was so badly managed that it was...a huge hit.

So your mentioning it for what reason?

In your world that maybe badly managed but not in the world the rest of us live in. "

TAXPAYER wrote on Aug 4, 2009 4:03 PM:

" Raven as stated before!
GOP version of health care.
Go to the doctor, pay for it!

Have a nice day. "

PlasticPinkFlamingo wrote on Aug 4, 2009 4:07 PM:

" See, that's why the socialists get it all wrong. They don't even know who is against their socialized medicine takeover. The socialists' rabid response is coordinated by the Obama administration through the mainstream media. Hint: it's not Republicans, nor is it insurance companies or lobbyists. It is people, voters, citizens, taxpayers who do NOT want to have the government making health care decisions for themselves and their families.

If there are so many Republicans doing all this, why isn't McCain in the White House?

On the other hand, why don't we just let the socialists rail against Republicans (who cares?) while us real citizens get to work forming a broad based political party to put the left wing of the Democrat party back in the far left corner of the peanut gallery where it belongs. It certainly does not belong in control of the White House and Congress. Remember, Change, Yes We Can!

Americans do not want Obamacare. That's the message. You socialists can continue to paint innuendo on those who tell you this at your own peril. You will continue to energize hardworking taxpayers and they will vote you out!!! "

trustmejack wrote on Aug 4, 2009 4:14 PM:

" I was there. I have read the bill. I have not been organized by anyone. One of the questions chosen for congressman Thompson's response was mine. Those stating that people were organized and bussed in to disrupt the meeting need to get get informed, get their facts atraight and wake up. They obviously need to personnaly just try reading the bill. "

PastNapan wrote on Aug 4, 2009 4:20 PM:

" Naparedhead: So you think that seniors that want to voice their opinions to a senator that is supposed to be representing them deserve to be arrested? And like Gatesonfire I too wish to know what the illegals are costing us? "

Hear Ye wrote on Aug 4, 2009 4:32 PM:

" I don't know anything about people being bussed in but I do know that tea party leaders (lobbyists) did send out instructions about how to behave at these town hall meetings. It appears at least a few people there got the memo. "

nightwatchman wrote on Aug 4, 2009 4:32 PM:

" It's funny how everyone who "read" the bill didn't understand a word of it. Last night, Thompson called them out. They cited a page number, he checked it, and guess what-- it wasn't at all what they said it was! "

rogers wrote on Aug 4, 2009 4:33 PM:

" When people meet, not to listen or question in a orderly and respectful manner, but to rattle the speakers and disturb the process of orderly communication, they deserve to be removed or arrested. Feinstein was spot on with her response. Organized disorderly and disruptive conduct is little more than hooligoonism.

This brought to you by those that refused entry to any but the party faithful when Bush held town-hall meetings.

Time to request an investigation of the lobbying group in Washington that organized this unruly behavior and see their licenses revoked. "

pamsilleman wrote on Aug 4, 2009 4:34 PM:

" "For those of you that believe Gibbs etc this morning as to who and why so
many people are coming out to these 'town halls' and are so upset: let me
set you straight.

I am pam silleman, the original coordinator of the first Tea Party here in
Napa. I am a single mom, and have never been politically active in any way.

I am scared to see what is happening to our country. And, so are millions of
other proud Americans. I am now quite involved with the National Tea Party
Patriots. They are not a well funded, big money backed group. We are just
hard working, normal people that are upset and doing anything and everything
we can to save our great country. Gibbs and those other liberal news people
are just plain wrong. I know all of the Tea Party coordinators. We all have
'day jobs' and are working 24/7 to stay informed, and to 'try' to keep up
with this money borrowing/spending administration.

Our nation was not designed to be run by just 'one side' and the results are
evident. The moment they got into power: what happened? Massive spending.and
who received the money? Big surprise: Acorn and giant liberal programs. I
don't' need to go down the list of the last 8 months spending/borrowing
show. We all sadly know what has happened. We can't even afford the interest
on the money Obama has obligated us to pay back.

And now, because of his ego, I supposed he is shoving the multi trillion
dollar healthcare plan down Americans throats. For some reason he wants to
do it so fast no body has time to analyze it."

Something is very wrong. "

nightwatchman wrote on Aug 4, 2009 4:40 PM:

" Freeport claims he's a legislative expert but doesn't understand what the "health exchange" is in the bill. I wonder if this is the "plain english" summary he's referring to:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/jul/30/e-mail-analysis-health-bill-needs-check-/

From a Pulitzer prize winning non-partisan fact checking website: "It may be the longest chain e-mail we've ever received. A page-by-page analysis of the House health care bill argues that reform will end the health care system as we know it: "Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed! ... Page 42: The 'Health Choices Commissioner' will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. ... Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free health care services."

Most of what the e-mail says is wrong. In fact, it's a clearinghouse of bad information circulating around the Web about proposed health care changes, so we thought it would be helpful to address a bunch of its claims." "

nightwatchman wrote on Aug 4, 2009 4:41 PM:

" And here's the Republican "plan" Freeport is referring to: it's 24 pages long. Double-spaced.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3218ih.txt.pdf

Who knew that fixing it would be that easy? "

wyngyrl wrote on Aug 4, 2009 4:41 PM:

" I have a few sincere questions for some of you who feel strongly about this issue and who comment frequently: Do you currently have health insurance? Is it provided thru your employer or did you purchase an individual policy? Do you feel the premium is affordable? Have you seen any price increases in the past 6 years? HAve you ever been denied treatment or had claims rejected? If you don't have insurance, why not? Is it too expensive? Have you applied but been turned down because of age, gender, pre-existing conditions, pregnancy, family illness, or other? What will you do if you get sick? Do you set aside a lump sum for medical expenses? What will you do if you get a serious diagnosis like cancer? Do you have $100-500,000 available for treatment? Are you willing to lose your home or declare bankruptcy in order to get care? Or perhaps you're on Medical or Medicaid? I look forward to reading any responses - I'm trying very hard to understand the anger, fear, and resistance to any changes in our current system. With respect. "

nightwatchman wrote on Aug 4, 2009 4:43 PM:

" Here's a good litmus test for our "Tea Party Patriots:" how many of you believe President Obama was born in Kenya? "

mofosheee wrote on Aug 4, 2009 4:43 PM:

" Pam Silleman.......the answer is simple.

Mr. Thompson should be voted out! He is not representing the people that voted for him. "

Bauhausfan wrote on Aug 4, 2009 4:45 PM:

" Taxpayer - "Raven as stated before!
GOP version of health care.
Go to the doctor, pay for it!"

If you don't have insurance go to the doctor about that pain in your left arm you have been having and are told that you need a bypass...how in the world are you going to pay for it?

They don't take payment plans where you pay $200.00 a month for the rest of your life.

Besides, the point many people are making on here is the way people acted at this event last night.

It was beyond belief and was so disrespectful as to be beyond belief. "

shareathought wrote on Aug 4, 2009 4:48 PM:

" Written by wined0wnnapa, Aug 4, 3:10 PM: "...the fact that a crowd was healthy enough to come out and have enough energy to yell and be loud is testament to the fact that healthcare in america is fine and doesnt need to be fixed."

Or its a "testament" that those who need healthcare reform were too ill to attend, didn't know and/or could not afford to be informed (they didn't buy a new TV this year, they can't afford a cable company; they don't buy the local papers); or they hadn't the means to attend (they don't own a car, were unable to drive, found no public transportation when needed, or could not afford a Taxi).

Where is the logical thought?

The fact is some people are rude, and many, are still uninformed. "

another voice wrote on Aug 4, 2009 5:00 PM:

" It is hard for me to understand why everyone is not upset about the "details" of the plan. I would especially like Mr Thompson to explain to us about the requirement for all of our bank accounts to be connected to the government so they can extract payment and redistribute money from some of us to others. Will the government also budget for us, and accept an IOU if it is a bad month?
Aren't you concerned? Sigh.
So many people still just "trust" the government will do the right thing. In my experience, it is sadly not the case. More often, in the words of some politically savvy folks around here, "If you are not at the table, you are on the menu."
Mr Thompson has been quoted citing the amount of dollars wasted in fraud and duplication in the government run systems now. How about fixing that problem first, so we can trust you are up to the job.
With such a fiasco and such bad judgment on the Stimulus and Cap and Trade, we need a positive demonstration. Otherwise,please do not dismantle the existing health care system. Just say no. "

Hear ye wrote on Aug 4, 2009 5:03 PM:

" Pam-

Come on, "Tea Party Patriots" is backed by D*ck Armey, who is a lobbyist and head of Freedom Works. His firm recently received around $1.5 million dollars from pharmaceutical companies. "Tea Party Patriots" is also the home of the gentleman who sent the instructional message to disrupt the town hall meeting and to not have intelligent discussions at them.

Just think, if those rude people would have acted like adults instead of children then we would probably be afforded a town hall meeting with Thompson. "

mikeb wrote on Aug 4, 2009 5:08 PM:

" Something is not right here. Why is the White House putting forth talking points to discredit those who question its plan rather than answering the questions? They are saying that if I disagree with this health care proposal my opinion is to be brushed aside as nothing more than rabble-rousing from some far right fringe. Well now they've got my attention. Why is anyone who questions this multi-trillion dollar mostly unknown plan cast as some kind of illegitimate protester, just a cog in some right wing lobbyist campaign? Why can't I as an ordinary citizen who simply works, pays taxes and raises a family question the merits of this bill without being disparaged as some kind of fringe loon? What are they hiding? "

post-it wrote on Aug 4, 2009 5:25 PM:

" Pam,

While it may be true that you have not been involved in political activism and are just a ordinary mom, your clearly state your conviction is that it is the liberals that are screwing up your America.

You are so correct about being run by one side, but where were the tea party folks when people were protesting about going to war and that it was going to cost billions of dollars we didn't have then either? What about all the other billions of dollars the conservatives piled up under the last administration?

It's not just ACORN and liberal groups getting you tax dollars, plenty of conservative interests know fully well how to extract their share of the government largess and had free reign to do so under the last administration.

Both parties have been running up big bills. You want to know why? because we only elect the ones that promise us free ice cream, no the ones who tell us we have to cut back a bit. We have seen the enemy and he is us.

If you really want to make a difference, why doesn't the teaparty folks do the same thing in every shareholder meeting? Demand the same accountability of corporations that you would of the government.

If you are concerned about illegal immigrants, why not ask the conservative groups, like the US chamber of commerce, why they have a lawsuit blocking mandatory implementation of E-verify for federal contracts? "

a teacher wrote on Aug 4, 2009 5:29 PM:

" So, this is the conservative plan, obstruct, obstruct, obstruct, obstruct, repeat. It's the Bill O'Rielly school of debate, shout down your opponents, wave the flag, don't forget to question your opponents patriotism. Brown Shirt tactics.

I'd like to think that won't work on real Americans, but I'm not optimistic "

freeport56 wrote on Aug 4, 2009 5:31 PM:

" hear ye\bauhausfan other fascinated conspirisists- THERE WAS NO ORGANIZED REVOLT!

All you are doing is doing what you do best, spreading rumors and inuendo unfounded in fact. The Tea Party people have been working off of good solid research, they have read the Bill.

Bauhausfan- nice try on medicare and Social Security, check out the CBO report from july 16: http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/104xx/doc10455/07-16-Long-TermOutlook_Testimony.pdf

as for the woman on Medicare, do you have supplemental insurance? The first day of the first year ObamaCare goes into effect, is the day your supplemental care provider can no longer take on new clients. The new ones will be forced into the "Public option"

2. In the Napa Valley Register interview following Congressman Mike Thompson’s telephone Town Hall meeting, Congressman Thompson was asked if the Health care Bill, H.R. 3200 would force all Americans out of their private insurance. Congressman Thompson said, “No”, that you can keep your current insurance if you are happy with it. Yet according to the Bill on page 16 under the “Section 102, line 10 (1) Limitation on New Enrollment (A) In General- Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual is such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1.” Additionally, contained with this sections are limitations on what can be covered, premium price freezes, and the fact that if any part of your private health care coverage’s change, it cancels the policy and puts the provider out of business This tells me that on the first day of the implementation of H.R. 3200 private insurance will no longer exist and not be offered to us, why is that? "

forlily wrote on Aug 4, 2009 5:31 PM:

" lilrid . . . this healthcare plan is "NOT FREE"! It will be paid for by taxpayers. Yes, when it starts out only the "rich" will be taxed, but when it goes over budget, and it will, you and I will pay more taxes too! That's what happens with most, if not all, government run programs. The government will be paying more for employees to oversee program and process payments than we'll have doctors.

Medicare, Medicaid, social security, the post office, cash for clunkers . . . they are all poorly thought out and run. "

forlily wrote on Aug 4, 2009 5:38 PM:

" lilrid - PS: Our deficit and debt is out of sight now and climbing. Who do you think is going to pay for that? Just this past weekend the President's minions floated a trial balloon about the probability of raising taxes on the middle class. This didn't happen accidentally. "

freeport56 wrote on Aug 4, 2009 5:39 PM:

" a teacher-

being in Norcal we learned how to behave from the libs. don't you watch the protests in S.F. We just cannot convince International ANSWER to support us.

a little secret.....once ytou become a Republican, we let you in on the conspiracy, heheheheheheh! "

napasnapper wrote on Aug 4, 2009 5:41 PM:

" It doesn't make any difference what the opponets say ,this ruiness bill will pass. Mr Thompson loves it because it will take care of all the vineyard workers (illegal and legal). The only thing that one can do is when the time comes,be sure and vote all of them out,way out, of office for good. Now,where can I get one of those democrat bumper stickers that said "Not My president" "

duke2149 wrote on Aug 4, 2009 5:44 PM:

" The citizens who attended last nights meeting were not organized by some national group. Its just people who want to communicate with their representative and its the only way we can get Mr. Thompsons attention. We call, fax, email & go to the office to no avail.
I am just a regular citizen angry about this government quickly moving the country towards socialism. I think an avalanche could start that would take the USA right past socialism to Marxism and for this reason I will fight to the death to save our freedom and capitalism.
If this government health plan is enacted you can easily see who will get medical care - the ones who applauded Mr Thompson will be first in line for treatment & care - the people who protest will go straight to the grave. "

freeport56 wrote on Aug 4, 2009 5:44 PM:

" nightwatchman-

yeah, the Republican plan took a little more time than the 86 hours it the House Ways and Means Committee to write this piece of Garbage.

At least the Republicans, maybe not the left blogger on this site, are actually trying to do the right thing and not disable our freedoms and liberties.

If you plan is so great and the left has held power for the last 2.5 years, how come none of the fixes have been done yet? How come? "

nightwatchman wrote on Aug 4, 2009 5:47 PM:

" Explanation for page 16: "the actual bill is over 1,000 pages long, it is written in legalese rather than English, and it is set in the middle of a large array of other legislation that it must work around without destroying. This necessarily means that it does some nifty tricks to side-step some of the implications. For example: For employer-provided health insurance meeting requirements for deduction as health care coverage under federal law, federal regulation already applies via ERISA. But private plans (those individually purchased) are regulated by the states under the provisions of the McCarran-Ferguson Act of 1945, which places private health insurance under state control.

So the question is how to enforce the mandates upon insurers -- the must-issue and the flat-rate-pool mandates -- without overturning McCarran-Ferguson. Neither Congress nor the majority of states want the Federal government to be in the business of regulating insurance in general. Simply amending McCarran-Ferguson to exclude health insurance as a state-regulated class doesn't work either, because it's not all health insurance that Congress wants to regulate, just primary health insurance. Supplemental policies are of supreme disinterest to Congress and they're quite happy to let the states continue regulating those. Besides, insurers could raise some legal actions if Congress tried to regulate already-issued insurance that was issued under McCarran-Ferguson.

So the solution that the wonk assigned the task of making this happen arrived at was to create a new ERISA-eligible group for all future private insurance to be offered through -- the Health Insurance Exchange. This starts on page 72 of the bill. Since it is an ERISA-eligible group, it can be regulated through ERISA without touching McCarran-Ferguson in general. But then comes the task of how to make all private insurance be offered via the Exchange." "

nightwatchman wrote on Aug 4, 2009 5:47 PM:

" "And the solution the wonk devised was to outlaw the issue of new private policies that were Exchange-eligible, which is done on page 16, which would force all new private policies to be issued via the ERISA-regulated Exchange rather than via the state-regulated McCarran-Ferguson private market. In short, it's a work-around for McCarran-Ferguson which avoids the necessity to have to actually change McCarran-Ferguson -- existing private insurance policies can still be regulated by the states, it's just that new private insurance that meets primary insurance requirements must go thru the Exchange where it can be regulated under federal ERISA rules instead. And heads explode upon reaching page 16, and they erupt shouting "ObamaCare outlaws private insurance!" without ever getting to page 72. " "

Steeds wrote on Aug 4, 2009 5:59 PM:

" People opposed to health care "reform" presented as rude because they were not represented on the panel and thus reacted in legitimate rage. The event was not a "forum." It was two hours of propaganda for socialized medicine. There was no serious discussion of the consequences of this amorphous cacophonic bill. We were lied and condescended to from the moment we entered. As far as Q & A, the "moderator" even lied when he said there would be 1-2 minutes for the questioner, and 2-3 minutes for the answerer. It didn't work that way. Questions were about 30 seconds tops. Answers were 5 minutes and above. Again, un-represented, un-counterbalanced “forum.” Thompson prattled on and on with talking points, often insulting the protesters. One protester even yelled that Thompson was "speaking in tongues," contributing to the congressman’s constant redness of face (from embarrassment because he knows he's simply touting party line?). This evening was not of value for anybody with even a modicum of intelligence. It was an ugly American disgrace. Mike Thompson should be ashamed of himself for his lack of true curiosity and intelligence.

I am not a seminar protester, paid insurance lobbyist, or otherwise organized right wing extremist. I've read much of the bill, and it's socialism.

Any "organizing" for this event came from the left, not the right, as per usual.

We are in trouble, people. And I ask you Mr. Thompson, what exactly are the ingredients of your Soylent Green? "

Hear Ye wrote on Aug 4, 2009 6:07 PM:

" freeport56 wrote on Aug 4, 2009 5:31 PM:

" hear ye\bauhausfan other fascinated conspirisists- THERE WAS NO ORGANIZED REVOLT!

All you are doing is doing what you do best, spreading rumors and inuendo unfounded in fact."

_________

Oh man, just when I thought I'd heard it all "

Raven wrote on Aug 4, 2009 6:20 PM:

" Taxpayer, that plan of yours has gotten us into this mess... "

cab e-girl wrote on Aug 4, 2009 6:26 PM:

" I was at the forum last night, which was in no way a town-hall meeting. I did not contact anyone other than Thompson's office. I did ask whether there was one on the NVR site. I was not organized, other than the fact that I have read "Parts" of HR3200. While I agree that we need to start fixing health care, this bill scares me and should scare anyone who ever plans on getting sick or injured.

The forum controlled what was said, what questions were asked and protected Rep Thompson and all of the forum members from questions they did not wish to answer. While the questions the mediator chose to ask were not-biased, Thompson was a master at not answering questions he didn't wish to answer and trying to mis-lead the audience. He was asked if he would be coverered under the same plan. His repsonse? "I am under the same guidelines as everyone else." What he didn't clarify was that, Congress is covered for life under a private medical insurance. What he also failed to mention, was that if you change or loose your job you are no longer able to choose private coverage. You will be forced into the public "option." I ask you how is that an option?

He was also asked about rationed health care for those over 65. He claimed he didn't know what the question was all about, the woman who asked the question cited the pg and section. He read it and said, the word "Ration," is not in the bill. I was holding the bill in my hand and read the sections. He was right, it didn't say "Ration" it said "Limitations and limits." Technically he told the truth, but I know the man is intellectually dishonest. "

Raven wrote on Aug 4, 2009 6:29 PM:

" As for the wonderful platform health plan, what good does getting a tax credit do for the health insurance premiums you pay if you don't have the money to pay the premiums in the first place?

But freeport and taxpayer both avoid the fact that in this current debate, not last years, the GOP has done nothing but say no, maintain the quote. When even a company like Wal-mart says the systems needs reform, what does that tell you freeport?

If asking questions is being snide, so be it. Life goes on. (and the questioning) "

wined0wnnapa wrote on Aug 4, 2009 6:31 PM:

" shareathought - "Or its a "testament" that those who need healthcare reform were too ill to attend, didn't know and/or could not afford to be informed (they didn't buy a new TV this year, they can't afford a cable company; they don't buy the local papers); or they hadn't the means to attend (they don't own a car, were unable to drive, found no public transportation when needed, or could not afford a Taxi)."

all of those things are free and readily available thanks to the government via a)library free internet services (im using it right now) b)free emergency medical services c) free digital tuner converters d) cash 4 clunkers. e) those buses that drive seniors around.

If you cant use the above services to your advantage, well, maybe its time to let nature take its course and free up the resources for contributing members of society. "

cab e-girl wrote on Aug 4, 2009 6:32 PM:

" Raven, hear-ye, thisisnotatest, napa-nate, redhead,baja. No doubt about it. It's a conspiracy. There are scary people out there. Be afraid, be very afraid. Listen to the government, they will protect you from all the evil's in the world. Don't listen to the nay sayers, don't read HR3200 yourself. Don't ever question Obama, Pelosi or Thompson. "

shareathought wrote on Aug 4, 2009 6:32 PM:

" Sometimes we hear a catchy phrase and it makes sense to us_but sometimes the words are actually a slogan that someone was paid to whisper in our ear to make it seem that we believe the way they want us to...

Follow the leads; if someone either is the "director" to numerous "non-profits" that lets you pay to be a member too and/or receives "grants" from the oil, insurance and/or pharmaceutical companies and/or perhaps the director has been a paid motivational speaker, and/or works for a particularly strong-voiced public figure and/or maybe the non-profit pays for their living expenses_there just might be something wrong.

Follow just one_ board member, consultant, writer_ just one someone who encourages others to be anti-something.

When you find someone is trying to get your support for something (that maybe doesn't feel right), find out if they are being paid to change your mind.
Pay attention, are you "easily guided or bought" by those paid to influence?

->->->->

"Protest a Townhall in your area!"
http://twitter.com/Ericjodom

"...a national collaborative grassroots effort organized..."
http://taxdayteaparty.com/about/

"...many of ALA’s founders were leaders in the Tax Day Tea Parties across the country."
http://americanlibertyalliance.com/about/

"took a paid consulting position with a federal congressional campaign"
http://ericjodom.com/blog/2009/04/who-am-i/

"...paid consultant for political campaigns" and "...President of Strategic Activism, LLC, a free-market minded start up that specializes in web strategy and social media."
http://www.dontgomovement.com/organization-leadership/

(currently not accessible, though you may contact them concerning donations)
http://strategicactivism.com/ "

Cadence wrote on Aug 4, 2009 6:36 PM:

" I think Taxpayer is onto something.
I also think what got us into this mess has more to do with those who go to the doctor/hospital/clinic and do NOT pay and have no intention of paying, because then the docs/hospitals/clinics charge those of us who do pay even more - sometimes a lot more. "

Bauhausfan wrote on Aug 4, 2009 6:38 PM:

" Freeport - I have no doubt it wasn't "organized". But it just so happened they all watched this stuff happening on tv and read about it on right wing websites and decided they were going to follow the herd and do the same thing.

Just to be accurate they started heckling and yelling at the guy who planned the event and wasn't even on the panel before he got two minutes into his introduction.

So the idea that people were yelling and shouting because they weren't represented isn't valid. He hadn't even introduced anyone yet.

If you and your ideological friends want to hold a health care forum then go do it.

I am sure people would just love to hear how you and your party are going to help them. "

russ wrote on Aug 4, 2009 6:45 PM:

" I attended the forum last night and it was a healthy, energetic evening with lots of participation. Yes, there were lots of folks who were opposed to the government attempted takeover of health care and were vocal about it.

Overall most of the meeting, not all, was respectful of the panel. Mike Thompson and Congress, especially Nancy Pelosi, took some well deserved criticism.

The attendees, liberal and conservative, were local folks interested in their health care and in local and national issues, such as illegal immigrants, budget deficits and tax increases.

You liberals here who belittling the opposition to the leftist regime.....do so at your own peril.

I left the forum feeling that the chickens may be coming home to roost. "

Hear Ye wrote on Aug 4, 2009 7:05 PM:

" Cab e-girl-

I wish I could say I knew what you're talking about but I don't. My comments are in reference to a small portion of the crowds behavior. Behavior thats not isolated to any one political party but in this instance is. I haven't shared my opinion on this bill leaving you with assumptions only. I actually do have some concerns with it but I'm capable of acting like an adult.

Also, I don't feel afraid which is why I don't buy into the usual fear-mongering that so many others do. I also don't rely on the government anymore than anyone else. I've never been on any form of assistance including unemployment, welfare, medi-cal, affordable housing etc. "

freeport56 wrote on Aug 4, 2009 7:08 PM:

" nightwatchman-

Dude, Read line 10 to 16 on page 16.

Read it several times, it contains no reference to what you said. it is the GOVERNMENT"S take over of the private insurer!

"(A) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in
this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first
day of Y1."

The spin stops here! Yes we will follow Thompson all summer until fly back to DC, then will keep an eye on his office! "

alucawanza wrote on Aug 4, 2009 7:24 PM:

" freeport
You know the answer to your own question. You're too smart to ask it. Those two years of Bush's administration when the Dems had a majority in the Legislature they didn't have the numbers to overcome a filibuser threat or a veto. Civics 101.

You're not a conservative???? Since when? Or did I read that early post incorrectly?

I wasn't at the meeting. After watching what has been happening on T.V. I knew it would be a free-for-all. From what I'm hearing I'd say the word rude applies. There is no excuse for interrupting speakers, yelling abuse or slogans, and sabotaging the workings of a truly American traditional meeting. These behaviors are UnAmerican....These people didn't come to hear the pros and cons or to ask questions. They came to destroy an American process. It sounds like mob rule....Hope they see themselves in a video and are proud of their actions. What a lesson for their children. Who's the patriot now? Disgusting..Manipulated people who are probably good-hearted usually. "

kdbk wrote on Aug 4, 2009 7:27 PM:

" It never fails. Once again, we hear the liberals offering nothing of substance. They simply revert to their standard process of hurling insults and innuendo toward all those who disagree with them. They bellow about how opponents of Obama's insane healthcare bill "haven't read it" or how they can't "understand it", when in reality they're best describing their chosen president and members of congress perfectly.

You liberals will not address this matter head-on. You refuse to admit that illegal immigrants make up millions of our "uninsured", that will be covered if Obama's plan succeeds. You don't care that the CBO is screaming that Obamas plan is not feasible. You can't understand why comparing the U.S. to places like Canada and England is not always practical. You ignore the facts about so many thousands who seek medical care in the U.S. every year from around the world. You can't stand that the vast majority of doctors and health care professionals don't like Obama's plan. You simply don't listen to reason, only emotionally charged rhetoric and far-left ideology.

Any responsible citizen would agree that Obama's rush to push through a bill of this magnitude, with such long-lasting implications, is simply, well...irresponsible.

It's the simplest fact in the world that our free market approach to healthcare provides the best outcome for the most people. What do liberals think drives research and development of the most advanced technologies? We need to stop paying BILLIONS for illegal immigrant healthcare, we need to reform malpractice, we need to consider a few more things about insurance access and portability, but come on liberals, stop trying to throw the baby out with the bathwater. "

TAXPAYER wrote on Aug 4, 2009 7:41 PM:

" The CBO has stated last year that our current medicaid, medicare and social security can not continue to be funded into the future without bankrupting the country.

So is Obama just trying to speed up the bankruptcy?

Wake up America!!! "

krusty wrote on Aug 4, 2009 7:44 PM:

" Maybe I'm one of the few, but I didn't even know this was taking place yesterday. I happened to be walking by the area and saw it.

I'm always entertained by the conspiracy theorists. Yes, Obama and the Democrats are doing their best to stick it to anyone who opposes them. He is working to destroy the country and will imprison everyone who disagrees. Some of you need to stop relying on Rush, Hannity, and Glen Beck for your "news." "

Bebee's Human wrote on Aug 4, 2009 7:47 PM:

" Why isn't Jesus preached from that pulpit? "

Stella Blue wrote on Aug 4, 2009 7:56 PM:

" I attended the forum last night. It was billed as a discussion "to focus on community needs and resouces, and the impacts of change". And it would have achieved that had it not been for the boorish behavior of a distinct, but loudly obnoxious, minority.

Kudos to the organizers and panel members for having the class to press on despite the efforts of those whose only agenda was to disrupt an otherwise intelligent conversation.

The fringe element whose goal last night was to repress constructive dialogue (how absolutely American"!) could benefiit from your example. "

TAXPAYER wrote on Aug 4, 2009 7:58 PM:

" We need to be a loud, angry crowd any time the Government is increasing its size, spending our money and taking away our rights. "

Old Time Napkin wrote on Aug 4, 2009 8:23 PM:

" This meeting was just another sales pitch by Thompson and crew. There were no opposing views and they were obviously not allowed. People are looking for answers to this issue and when you only hear one side people get frustrated.They do not want to be "spoon fed" government pablum.
The questions submitted were specifically chosen by the moderator. The question about whether or not illegal aliens would receive health care were avoided. They also avoided a question about publically funded abortions and whether or not Catholic hospitals would be forced to perform them.
Congressman Thompson is "our employee" and all of us, Republican , Democrat,Independent, etc. deserved answers to our questions. To "cherry pick"the questions was less than honest with those who pay his salary. I voted for him once and I'll never vote for him again. He's just Pelosi's waterboy. "

itsbushesfault wrote on Aug 4, 2009 8:34 PM:

" Change my mint to "Yes'

First medaitor, life was saved by those dirty rotton doctors and insurance companys

second; Mr. Blue Dogg himself Thompson who has not seen an spending bill he doesn't like. 11 tillion and counting. And he told me how its gong to work and the millionaires are going to pay for it. That sold me!

third was Clinic Olay. Great program but they need money too, so im going to get a few theeth pulled without pain killer, to save them some bucks, and hopefully I get someone who can't speak english, so I can be ready for the new doctors.

fourth:was Queen of the valley 10K a day
im sure they are not going to advatage of the government, they are Catholic:)

Fifth: was an man that how can I say it. Hated profit, those mad insurance companys, and those crimial doctors, I can't beleive they was to make money. I can't wait for the forigen doctors and nurses, they may not understand us, and make a few mistakes, but they will work for no porfit.

and six; was some but head that didnt want the government to take over 20% of our economy, but he just could make it. sorry

let stop the division, if or on the left or right, liberial or consertive, lets make these people in our government understand that were the boss, not them' divided we fail! let have an real town meeting were there is not just one side full of lies! and really get reform for all of us and protect the needy, poor, sick , homeless! just look outside of that church, here we are fighting amongest each Godbless! "

cab e-girl wrote on Aug 4, 2009 8:35 PM:

" Many Americans are both curious and angry because Congress wants to make seismic changes to your and my healthcare. Why is Rep Thompson "afraid" to talk about this bill without staying on talking points? He won't hold a town hall meeting for fear of someone being rude? Rep Thompson stood in front of 500 ppl (according to the NVR) and said HR3200 is patterned after the MAYO Clinic. See what the Mayo Clinic has to say about healthcare reform. http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthpolicycenter/pdfs/perspective.pdf
I would certainly like to ask him questions based on their perspective. But Thompson is not going to hold a town hall meeting. He's afraid of being in the hot seat?
I don't need a representative who a. is afraid to explain a bill that Americans are becoming increasingly weary of. b. is misleading and intellectually dishonest. c. Doesn’t want to be in the hot seat
We were held in a room, not allowed to ask unmediated questions and forced to listen to an hour commercial on why this bill is right for America. A growing number of Americans are questioning congress and this bill. According to Rasmussen 53% of Americans are opposed to Congressional health care reform. Where was the balance on the forum? I have heard docs and nurses say this bill will destroy the best parts of our health care system. All attending surely would have benefited from asking questions to an opposing voice as well.
Even though Mike Thompson has been very good for the wine industry in Napa, he is not representing me and he clearly doesn't want to hear what I have to say.
I believe Mike Thompson owes his constituency, at the very least to ask him questions about a bill that could have cataclysmic effect on all of our lives. "

antipc wrote on Aug 4, 2009 8:40 PM:

" At least 2/3 of the folks at the meeting last night were not happy with the Democrat plan, & wanted REAL answers; none were given. What I heard was campaign speeches & DNC talking points. In Mike's opening speech, he touted bi-partisanship...... never saw any from the guest speakers.

What interested me was the first 2 rows set aside for 10 people that were darlings of the Obama plan.

The single biggest fallacy of the "meeting" was how this "plan" was going to paid for. (you know the two exploited plans [medicare & medicaid] where we're going to save $500 billion from new oversight, but same as the old oversight).LOL

There is no plan, it's a pure, plain & simple agenda (feed the wolves to keep the coyotes at bay).

Kudos to the man who hoisted his daughter on his shoulders & approached the speakers to make a clear understanding of who will actually is going to pay for this disaster. "

kevin wrote on Aug 4, 2009 8:49 PM:

" I LOVE the fact that the Libs are upset that people who are NOT Libs are using their playbook and the same tactics Libs have used since the 60's to get attention and publicity!

You guy ROCKED last night!

And you obviously struck a NERVE... "

John Richards wrote on Aug 4, 2009 8:50 PM:

" "The health insurance industry is spending massive amounts of money to make sure any bill that will offer free health care won't pass."

Free health care? Impossible, our country can't afford it. You might as well throw in free meals too. After all, food is a necessity, right? How about some free spending money while we're at it. We can call it something Orwellian, like Earned Income Credit. "

cab e-girl wrote on Aug 4, 2009 8:55 PM:

" Heary Ye: Thank you for admitting you have concerns over this bill. I will withdraw you from my comment and apologize. There are times when being rude and obnoxious is the only way you will be heard. The left was very effective using this tool during the Bush Presidency and anti-war demonstrations. I did notice a group of young people wearing blue shirts in support of Mike Thompson. This was the only organized group that I noticed from where I was sitting. While I am aware the Tea Party Group was there, I don't believe they were an isolated party or group. I think there was a lot of frustration in the room and people wanted answers. Mike Thompson was certainly not going to give them any they wanted. The people making comments around me were not part of the tea party group, but simply people who wanted answers, frustrated that they could not ask questions.

BTW, I learned more from Randy Snowden than I did any of the panelists. And bless the St. Josephs panelist. He kept it short and informative. "

Mr. Feasor wrote on Aug 4, 2009 8:56 PM:

" I'm not anti public-healthcare. But I am anti-HR3200. A public option is - fundamentally - a good policy to make private insurance companies reduce overhead costs and streamline their systems. Thereby reducing costs to all citizens.

But HR3200 has some scary provisions (i.e. section 102, which requires you to switch to the government plan if your private coverage plan is terminated).

Other concerns arise regarding how the 17 people appointed to the Center for Comparative Effectiveness Research ("Center") are paid $153,200.00 per year to determine the necessary guidelines for eligible plans. But at least nine of them have to be "practicing physicians, health care practitioners, consumers, OR patients..." (see generally section 1401 (emphasis in capital letters added); see also pay schedule at: http://www.opm.gov/oca/09tables/pdf/ex.pdf)

I was a fan, but I don't appreciate the deception. Why is the wool being pulled over our eyes? Why weren't we told that if our plan is terminated, you must use a government-endorsed plan?

It should be an option: an individual can pay higher taxes to get a plan like MediCare (and deal with the bureacracy and quality of care...which is a lot better than bankruptcy), or continue using your private plan (with the favorable tax treatment).

But don't forbid me from having a private plan option. Don't hide the truth. And don't pay a group of people $2,604,400.00 annually with my tax dollars to limit the options I have when it comes to my health care. "

Glassguy wrote on Aug 4, 2009 9:17 PM:

" Comrades !
We must not have the people asking their own questions !
The party leaders must be respected , after all , they know
what's best for us !
Our health care must in the hands of the Motherland !
And as for the proletariat , we must be silent and accept .
Also, the " cash for clunkers " program must be extended
We need a " crash for clunky Kitchens " as well .
We can borrow funds from our good friends in China and have
our grandchildren pay the bill .............. Comrade Lenin was never
so clever ! "

les wrote on Aug 4, 2009 9:19 PM:

" The republican position their website pretty much follows the memos the insurance industry has been distributing as their marketing efforts increase to put down any healthcare reform. Current healthcare programs support the mulit million salaries of insurance executives not the people they policies are suppose to serve. It is the insurance industry that is driving the cost of insurance up so small companies really can't afford to pay the premiums and stay in buisness. It's not the unions or the liberals that are the problem, but the greedy insurance companies. Look at the documented abuses of Blue Shield Blue Cross who routinely disqualify patients from coverage when they get really sick and need the help. Medicare has a documented 2-3% admin cost to running that program, while BSBC is closer to 10%. Some CEO is making 105M in salary and bonus off the backs of policy owners. "

freeport56 wrote on Aug 4, 2009 9:20 PM:

" http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/24/news/economy/health_care_reform_obama.fortune/index.htm

see what CNN says about the healthcare Bill. "

freeport56 wrote on Aug 4, 2009 9:28 PM:

" Stella-

Please do not Bloviate, there was no constructive dialog. Thompson held to the Party talking points, Snowdon lectured on the evils of making a profit, clinic Ole was shock that they were seeing 3X as many new patients, that are locals, and fear was used at the rising costs.

Still not any valid reason for the Government to take complete control of the health care system.

One can only think that those people who are upset about the outpouring of emotion last, have no vested interest in the quality of health care (because it's FREE), or the future of their country.

How sad is that. "

doris gentry wrote on Aug 4, 2009 9:31 PM:

" For years ACORN has been in the center of questionable actions - having lawsuit after lawsuit. Now this new health care bill refers to ACORN handling, managing, serving or contracting services. That is silly and dumb. Like having the fox watch the hen house.

Then there is the issue of treating illness of the elderly - how can we put a cap on services to the elderly? We cannot. We should not. But this plan clearly does.

Why would we offer medical services to the illegals who do not belong in our country? This program puts a limit on how much we will spend on the elderly but then no limit on how much we will spend on an illegal.

People - I hope America has quit drinking the kool-ade and has come to their senses.

I was there last night - and I did hear some disrespectful people - and I am sorry they were so passionate and yelled out - for that I am truly sorry - but they are feeling pushed against the wall. And feeling like this is being shoved down their throats. You can only shove on someone for so long - eventually they will begin to shove back - and that is what I saw in so many people last night.

Finally - I want to add - this America that we love offers us the freedom to gather and to protest - that is what we saw last night - in a free country - people expressed disapproval. No fights. No broken glass. No Police. Just Americans speaking out about a VERY bad idea. So far, we CAN still do that. Socialism is pushing on us and we are pushing back - really HARD. "

doris gentry wrote on Aug 4, 2009 9:36 PM:

" I heard Mike Thompson say last night that this plan has been endorsed by the AMA - I read over 100 articles on Google last night and today - because frankly this baffled me - and so I wondered where this came from???? Here is the info I kept finding -

WASHINGTON — As the health care debate heats up, the American Medical Association is letting Congress know that it will oppose creation of a government-sponsored insurance plan, which President Obama and many other Democrats see as an essential element of legislation to remake the health care system.

This if from the NY Times on June 10th - and I know there have been revisions of the health care plan since then - but I could not find a single article that said the AMA has endorsed this plan.

Go here for the rest of this story - http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/11/us/politics/11health.html "

mykdgirl54 wrote on Aug 4, 2009 9:37 PM:

" Curious as to why Mike Thompson even agreed to a "town meeting" to talk about a bill, which according to an article last week in the NVR, he helped write?! He obviously is pro-H.R. 3200 so wasn't this little meeting just for show?

I hope Thompson got a good look at all the faces there and realizes that this bill he's trying to shove down his consituent's faces will only equal his non-relection. NAPANS and AMERICANS dont want it! We want reform - not some fly by night, ill composed "band aid" on our healthcare system!

By the way take a look at some of our other "government/nationally run " facilities (i.e. DMV, post office, veterans health care) You mean to tell me if you have a massive heart attack instead of seeing a physcian of your choice, at a hospital you choose, you'd rather have it looked after by the same people who run the DMV?! Also, I think before the goverment looks to providing healthcare for millions it should practice providing excellent care first to the thousands of men and woman who've risked their lives for this country. "

reason-ator wrote on Aug 4, 2009 9:40 PM:

" Hey, Bauhausfan, your act is getting transparent.

You were sure anxious to debunk what I said when you mockedly asked what I meant, but you had no response when you realized I was right. You just hopped over to somewhere else where you could play cliche with someone else. Just like the flat earth sun rises in the west nonsense that makes no sense, has no substance, and totally deflects actual discussion about how Obama's personal agenda is a presidential victory quest and actual health care is inconsequential as long as he gets a victory.

I don't think you're convincing nearly as many as you're alienating. Keep up the good work.

So which seven Senators were chosen to actually read the Health Care Bill ? Or have they chosen more to say they read it ? "

sfbella wrote on Aug 4, 2009 9:51 PM:

" Stella Blue: I hate to take such an elementary approach here, but the definition of ‘forum’ is ‘a public meeting or lecture involving audience discussion.’

Now, I was not present at this forum. However, the headline of this article ‘Loud, angry crowd turns out for health care forum’ says plenty. Were you surprised that individuals who oppose your views were present? Did you expect those same individuals to sit in the back quietly, holding hands, and cry while supporters, organizers, and panel members were, allegedly, having an ‘intelligent conversation?’ Please.

And ‘boorish behavior of a distinct, but loudly obnoxious, minority?’ Safe to assume that if the tables were turned, the headline would be just the same. Right?

‘Kudos’ to those who attended the meeting in opposition of this most wonderful plan. And ‘kudos’ for exercising (again, elementary) your right to freedom of speech. Yes, ‘how absolutely American!’ "

krusty wrote on Aug 4, 2009 9:56 PM:

" http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/health-care/anti-reform-group-takes-credit-for-helping-gin-up-town-hall-rallies/

From a memo directed at the groups that attend these meetings given by Democratic congressmen:

"You need to rock-the-boat early in the Rep's presentation. Watch for an opportunity to yell out and challenge the Rep's statements early. If he blames Bush ofr something or offers other excuses-call him on it, yell back and have someone else follow-up with a shout-out....If he says something outrageous, stand up and shout and sit right down."

What this is is a very small group of people intend on disrupting what could be a productive diologue between the people and their representatives. I hope these people understand it's the healthcare companies themselves that are most interested in fighting healthcare reform. They're the one that stand to lose, not the people. "

dellasumbrella wrote on Aug 4, 2009 10:00 PM:

" Mikeb says, "Why can't I as an ordinary citizen who simply works, pays taxes and raises a family question the merits of this bill without being disparaged as some kind of fringe loon? What are they hiding?"

If you were there last night, you'd know the answer to your question. No one who was protesting wanted any answers to any questions. They were there to make sure no one got any information. If you were there and still ask that question, then you don't know the difference between a question and a bullhorn.

kdbk says: "[Liberals] revert to their standard process of hurling insults and innuendo toward all those who disagree with them. " Clearly you weren't there either. It wasn't liberals hurling insults, disdain, and oh, so much more than innuendo last night. At least not until some of them realized there was no other way to communicate with the unruly mob. And even then, the speakers themselves and most of the liberals in the crowd limited themselves to speaking and applauding. I, on the other hand, yelled back. I wanted to hear what the speakers had to say.

cabe-girl says: "[Thompson] won't hold a town hall meeting for fear of someone being rude?" I guess you missed it too. He held the town hall meeting, all the speakers faced a hostile crowd, spoke articulately and intelligently, and answered questions, all in the face of the most obnoxious and unpatriotic behavior I've witnessed in a crowd since McCain/Palin were on the campaign trail. No, I take that back. This was worse than their campaign.

And the hits just keep on coming. "

post-it wrote on Aug 4, 2009 10:09 PM:

" Where were the loud complaints in 2003 when Bush signed an 800 billion dollar drug benefit for medicare? This was the largest expansion of socialized medicine in history.

Where was the outrage of adding to the socialized medicine?

I sometimes wonder if the only reason one party opposes the other is so they can limit the damage caused by the oppostion party passing a popular law. "

nightwatchman wrote on Aug 4, 2009 10:10 PM:

" Hey Doris- Googling is fun and easy!

"AMA endorses House healthcare bill
By Jeffrey Young
Posted: 07/16/09 02:31 PM [ET]

House Democrats got some good news on health reform in the form of a key endorsement from an influential interest group: the American Medical Association (AMA).

The AMA endorsed the measure in a letter to Ways and Means Committee Chairman Charles Rangel (D-N.Y.) on Thursday. “On behalf of the Board of Trustees of the American Medical Association, I am writing to express our appreciation and support” for the House bill, wrote Michael Maves, the AMA’s executive vice president and CEO. "

And...if you find ACORN mentioned in the bill I'll give you $100.

Freeport-- I read that part, and just posted something explaining why those 6 lines are so spooky to you. If you don't want to have an intellectually honest debate, then don't. You can't honestly think that 24 pages of nonsense form the Republicans is a real bill.

To save folks time I will summarize the right-wing argument:

"ACORN ACORN HUSSEIN HUSSEIN NOBAMA NOBAMA SOCIALIST ooga booga ooga booga!" "

Raven wrote on Aug 4, 2009 10:18 PM:

" You people really don' see it do you....you are working so hard to perserve a system that is bankrupting thousands of Americans every year; that is rationing your health care now, not in the future and is designed to simply increase the wealth of the providers and not improve your health. Flashback to the 60s and the debate on medicare....

cab-e-girl....what scares me is how easily you and others have bought into this nonsense hook line and sinker and appear to have checked the native intelligence and common sense your were born with at the door. Btw, just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they have been brainwashed, drank the kool-aid or a part of a vast liberal conspiracy or any of the other wonderful trite lil sayings that tumble forth, it means only one thing - they disagree with you. Quite simple actually.

(btw...Taxpayer, you might mention the rest of the CBO report, the part those lil items on Medicare and SS, they say unless changes are made, they will be paying out more than they take in, but that with changes both programs can be brought into line, for example, means testing recipients.) "

dellasumbrella wrote on Aug 4, 2009 10:27 PM:

" From wineOd.....: "If you cant use the above services to your advantage, well, maybe its time to let nature take its course and free up the resources for contributing members of society."

Yeah, who needs health insurance anyway? But heaven forfend we give that person any counseling regarding end-of-life issues, advance directives, etc. Let nature take it's course, let it happen slowly and painfully, and maybe we can even shove a tube down their throat toward the end and extend it further.

Sorry, too graphic?

from russ: "a healthy, energetic evening with lots of participation...."

Wow. "

shareathought wrote on Aug 4, 2009 10:32 PM:

" Perhaps this commentator could clarify...

wined0wnnapa wrote Aug 4, 6:31 PM: "...maybe its time to let nature take its course and free up the resources for contributing members of society."

It almost sounds as though you are suggesting that those who are disabled, seniors, or are for some reason living below the median income should...what?

What are you suggesting? "

Mr. Feasor wrote on Aug 4, 2009 10:42 PM:

" a teacher - really? Did you really just throw down a Nazi reference to some people that voiced their concerns to their elected official? Really?

Sure, there may have been a lack of order. But a 'brown shirt' reference? Okay. Let me take that statement and change one word (maybe a little Orwellian Newspeak can help us here):

"...shout down your opponents, wave the flag, don't forget to question your opponents [sic] Nazism..."

It works both ways. Let's not get into hyperbole. The main point here is that Americans have been deceived by this plan.

It should have been stated from the beginning: "You can keep your private plan, but only that plan, until it terminates. Then you have to use our plan. And it's a good plan - even though most members of congress voted it down for personal use - and we pay 17 arbitrarily-selected people over $150K per year to select which government-mandated plan you can have."

Bad business, all around. Be transparent. And provide a private option no matter what! "

opinionator wrote on Aug 4, 2009 10:47 PM:

" thisisnotatest wrote: " Today: A bunch of people who only watch Fox news complain about a bill they don't really know anything about. "

opinionator responds:

...and a bunch of people who only call themselves congresspersons support a bill they don't really know anything about. "

Mr. Feasor wrote on Aug 4, 2009 11:30 PM:

" Della - nothing stops someone from executing a DNR, advanced health care directive, etc. Hospice care exists here in California. In fact, former Gov. Moonbeam endorses its use:

http://www.ag.ca.gov/consumers/pdf/AHCDS1.pdf

So I guess I am asking: how is this relevant? Between you and me, I think the following is more relevant:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=111353362

So who paid the $1.5 million in health care costs for that guy? I'll give you three guess...but it should only take one...

I would be fine with paying for a public health care plan that I participate in. I should have that CHOICE. But if I want to go to a private plan, that should be my CHOICE. The current plan takes away the right to choose. And that's what's wrong with it. Why is this not being acknowledged by those who support the current plan? I just don't get it... "

robbie wrote on Aug 4, 2009 11:49 PM:

" Redundancy is bauhausfan 5 or more times doing his germanic domination of the comments.

Is it verified that b was there? "

post-it wrote on Aug 4, 2009 11:53 PM:

" I think people should watch this PBS segment of Bill Moyers Journal.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html

He interviews Wendell Potter former VP of Cigna.

Then listen to what you hear from the Republicans "

wined0wnnapa wrote on Aug 5, 2009 12:16 AM:

" shareathought- a true "spreading of the wealth" which is how we are funding universal healthcare also requires a spreading of civic responsibility. Old people who will only be using a hip replacement a few years before kicking it should help other americans by abstaining treatment so that younger comrades can benefit. Maybe we could outsource the components to china for older people. It would take a while for the lead to leech from the artificial joints so they probably wouldnt notice and we could thus fund all the fatties medicine they require to treat their adult onset diabetes from too many Outback Steakhouse Aussie Cheese Fries with Ranch Dressing binges.
You cant be selfish, that would be capitalism and apparently thats not American anymore. "

Bauhausfan wrote on Aug 5, 2009 5:52 AM:

" Robbie - Have you had a problem with Freeport posting 10 or more times during his "Germanic" like (hint, hint, wink, wink not so subtle reference, but highly ironic considering who shut the school down!) domination of the comments?

If so, I didn't see anything written about it.

Why would you not write a comment denouncing his much more obvious "domination" of the discussion?

Could it be that you agree with his point of view but not mine?

Nah, that couldn't possibly be.

Or maybe you don't like my accurate description of what happened at the forum?

It was not a town hall by congressman Thompson.

Maybe you don't like the Bauhaus School Of Design then.

http://www.bauhaus.de/english/

Or maybe you don't like the English band Bauhaus who took their name from the school.

http://www.bauhausmusik.com/news/index.html

Somehow I really don't think so.

I wonder what it could be?

By the way, Robbie, I was there.

Were you? "

Bauhausfan wrote on Aug 5, 2009 6:05 AM:

" "Where were the loud complaints in 2003 when Bush signed an 800 billion dollar drug benefit for medicare? This was the largest expansion of socialized medicine in history.

Where was the outrage of adding to the socialized medicine?

I sometimes wonder if the only reason one party opposes the other is so they can limit the damage caused by the oppostion party passing a popular law."

Of course the interesting thing about that bill is that it was written by lobbyists of the drug lobby. Watch the video below and try to imagine this was done for anyone but drug companies and their profits.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=2635796n&tag=contentMain;contentBody "

flyingfingers wrote on Aug 5, 2009 6:37 AM:

" I want to personally apologize to Michael for the rude display. However, and this is to all congresspersons holding meetings across our great country. If you ever answered your phone, if you ever responded to a phone message or email, if you ever considered or thought about what we are saying, and if your media (and our government) didn't label us all as potential terrorists because we love our country and the Constitution, maybe we wouldn't have a reason to be angry. I spent all day Sunday studying HR300, and we should all be very afraid. And Michael, you and your colleagues should also be very afraid, because we hired you, and we can fire you. You all seem to forget you work for us. "

Gabriel wrote on Aug 5, 2009 6:49 AM:

" Whatever happened to the honored tradition of "Questioning Authority?" Where ARE those deep thinking hippies of yesteryear? It is now quite obvious, even to those who have to now been neutral on this entire health care charade by Obama and the democrats, that the way the liberal establishment deals with those who DARE raise their concerns about a very, VERY bad bill is to call them right wing Republicans who were organized by the Health Care Industry. This is exactly what happens in an emerging dictatorship when freedom of speech is attacked! This from the supposed party of tolerance! Question Authority, but you better not DARE question Obama, right? "

Gabriel wrote on Aug 5, 2009 7:12 AM:

" Another item; don't forget to call your detractors "racists" and "haters" whenever you can too. MY healthcare costs are just fine, and the service I consider wonderful. I have read much of HR3200, and am STILL trying to get to the end of that stink of a bill, but what I have read, I personally do not like nor agree with. I am a military veteran, American citizen, and am NOT getting MY orders from the GOP nor any Health Care Industry; it is called FREEDOM OF SPEECH. You pro-Obama people ought to recognize it and value it's diversity. Can we stop HR3200? "YES WE CAN! SI SE PUEDE!" "

nappalachia wrote on Aug 5, 2009 7:18 AM:

" How do we pay for it? Easy. Quit funding the war machine. Shift the defense budget to healthcare. Afterall, isn't the City of Napa Paramedics socialized healthcare? Isn't grade through high school socialized education? Why not start spending our tax dollars on the people instead of sending money to israel and other non-deserving countries. "

glenroy wrote on Aug 5, 2009 7:25 AM:

" Gabe.... hear...hear...right here! "

cab e-girl wrote on Aug 5, 2009 8:07 AM:

" Della- See the definition of a forum and a town hall meeting. Then call Mike Thompson's office and ask them why he chose a "Forum with a panel of health care professionals” to participate in, rather than a Town Hall Meeting." Then ask them if he plan’s on participating in a Town Hall Meeting. They are the ones that told me this is not a "Town Hall Meeting." Your argument belongs with Thompson and his minions, not me. "

Farmer wrote on Aug 5, 2009 8:17 AM:

" I am pleased to see the many comments posted about this issue which express both sides. I support universal health care and trust that our leaders do not bow to the unruly harassment tactics by, what I consider, misguided fanatics. "

freeport56 wrote on Aug 5, 2009 8:22 AM:

" It seems that we have a juxtaposition. Last year it was the left that could not say enough mean and cruel things about our President. Now that the Marxists are in office the tables have turned.

Make no mistake about it, you are blindly being lead down a path to destruction, low quality health care. In Thompson's own words, they have no way to pay for it. $500,000,000 comes from "efficiencies". In other words, parts of the process of health care will be removed to make efficient. Even the CBO(Congressional Budget Office) has stated that the health care package is financially unsustainable.

Thompson was totally silent on the truth, misrepresented (because I cannot say Lied) the facts and acted unaccountable to his constituent with grave concerns.

The only ones complaining are the sheep being lead to the slaughter. "

rpcv wrote on Aug 5, 2009 8:25 AM:

" I suggest that whenever you receive an e-mail about Health Care Reform (or anything else that is controversial), check out its veracity at factcheck.org or snopes.com. Even my conservative brother admits that factcheck.org is unbiased. "

Bauhausfan wrote on Aug 5, 2009 8:31 AM:

" Flyingfingers - I have called Thompson's office and talked to someone every time.

Is is that you don't like the answers?

He doesn't hold the same poltical ideology as you and so he doesn't support the things you do or think the way you do? "

freeport56 wrote on Aug 5, 2009 8:34 AM:

" Nightwatchman-

watch your tounge.

As frued said, "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" I do not need a leftist to interpret legislation to me.

That line reads exactly as it is supposed to. It is not my fault that the comment on this page by the lefdt leaners misrepresents, insults, and degrades all those fine people that came out to challenge Thompson for his 86 hours of work on a system, that was twisted by legislation he also help write. I am just so glad it only took 86 hours to completely solve the issue.

The comments by you, della, krusty, bauhausfan, and others are those by the blind following their leader. I feel sorry for you all as you think these are the best intentions, as they are not.

I am an American who has the right to govern my own life. I shall and will not be dictated to by a Government that thinks it can fire CEO's of public companies. I have yet to find that ability in the constitution. Does Barry even know what the Constitution is.

So, I am done with Civil debate with the left, as the Kool-Aid is flowing toward passage of the most Marxist Doctrine ever asttempted in this country. This noty about health care, this about controlling our lives!

This is war! "

flyingfingers wrote on Aug 5, 2009 8:36 AM:

" To the woman who asked the very last question about "rationing." Michael's answer was that the word "rationing" is not mentioned. Typical politician. He is correct, BUT if he had read to us pages 335-339, we would all know the whole truth. This woman did her homework and she is correct. If you want to know what the bill says, don't ask a politician (who hasn't read it). Read it for yourself. Google HR3200. "

rosalee3@sbcglobal.net wrote on Aug 5, 2009 8:43 AM:

" The NVR would do our community a great service if they would cull through all these responses, claims and assumptions contained in these emails and have Representative Thompson provide a written response to each concern and point. Thus providing clarification for everyone on what appears to be an extremely complicated and confusing issue. "

dellasumbrella wrote on Aug 5, 2009 8:45 AM:

" Gabriel -- Are you saying the Republican/Conservative camp is now patterning its behavior after the hippies? Well, they're not doing a great job. I didn't see any flowers at the forum, only pizza and grotesque characatures of Obama on stickers and maybe a few flags and video cameras. All, by the way, requested in the e-mail that has been circulated nationally and which also laid out the mob yelling points, and which directed people (for guidance) to the websites of the extremist pundits such as Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Michelle Malkin, Bill O'Reilly and more.

Mr. Feasor -- my comment was addressing the inconsistency between a cynical sentiment expressed that anyone who is ill, infirm, disableds, etc. should just be allowed to die, and the mob mentality objection to there being a provision in the bill for counseling regarding DNRs, etc. and for the claim that it leads to euthanasia. Just another absurd claim by the extremists to prevent affordable health care from being available.

As for your comment, "But if I want to go to a private plan, that should be my CHOICE." You have that choice. I believe it was Nightwatchman who addressed that, above. "

Kevin Eggers wrote on Aug 5, 2009 8:47 AM:

" What happened at the meeting is a matter of opinion.

The church was full, including the balcony, with myself and others standing at the rear on the first floor. There was noticeable heat from the summer night air…and from those in attendance. Two distinct groups of people were in attendance. There were the citizens that had completely bought into government’s role as father, mother, and savior…and those citizens that were still in denial, struggling over the idea of more taxes and government controls.

This meeting reminded me of something you might see in a totalitarian country. The government’s side of the argument was the only one presented to the people. Besides Thompson, genuinely concerned citizens within the community were selected because they supported big government’s “facts” and solutions for our healthcare problems. If they had been dressed in red uniforms and spoke with Russian accents, Napa citizens might have had a better clue of what kind of meeting this really was.

The disgruntled citizens in the crowd were wondering why there wasn’t an opposing argument for the healthcare plan. Grumbling amongst themselves (and to those around them), some yelling out in spurts of anger, these citizens were continually told to be quiet and wait until the speakers were finished.

As in totalitarian countries, the opposition was controlled. Citizens were allowed to write their questions on forms that were filled out before the meeting started. The mediator decided what questions were relevant. When Thompson was evasive in answering the questions, those expressing their anger were told to be quiet.

Obviously, this was pure propaganda, and not a healthcare debate. This was America’s government telling the citizens “this is what we’re doing, and you can’t do anything about it.” "

glenroy wrote on Aug 5, 2009 8:49 AM:

" Ira is a liberal advocate and playing with fire…

I think the Methodist Church should lose it’s tax deductible status…imagine if the Catholic Church held a John McCain Health Reform…..libs would stain their shorts…. "

wyngyrl wrote on Aug 5, 2009 8:56 AM:

" Rude, arrogant, disruptive, angry, aggressive, ill-informed, antagonistic, obstructive, selfish, & stubborn. That's the PR image conservatives have created for themselves. Limbaugh/Fox/Palin have done America no favors in encouraging this behavior. It's not only unpleasant, it's very very unproductive. Solutions are rarely found by yelling & screaming. Grow up and conduct yourselves with courtesy and dignity at the worktable. Your voices will be much stronger that way. "

post-it wrote on Aug 5, 2009 9:20 AM:

" Has any stopped to think that those that profit the most from health care system are hedging their bets?

Plan A. Make sure the status quo stays in effect becasue we make money this way.

Plan B. Make sure any bill that has a chance of passing continues to benefit the industry.

Yes, question both sides. "

pbfallon wrote on Aug 5, 2009 9:39 AM:

" So, for those of you who want to politcize this issue, don't! I have read as much as i can understand and would bet that most writers have not gone beyond the CNN and ABC news reports. Of course you want to make it a red-blue issue. You simply don't do any research.

Mike Thompson said that it would be funded by the 500 billion to be recovered from Medicare fraud. Make a note of this and in 5 years time, ask him where the 500 Billion is. And, why is this not being widely publicized by the news media? FACT: if this plan passes, you, the middle classe, will pay for a pig in the poke.

Last thought - Mike Thompson has been in congress for at least 2 decades. Why has he not fought to get our 500 billion back before now? "

Gunga Ga Lunga wrote on Aug 5, 2009 9:39 AM:

" Maybe the election of Obama will turn out to be a blessing in disguise. Had McCain been elected, it would have been a continuation of the gradual move to socialism. Like a series of small paper cuts; none large enough to warrant concern. However, with Obama as president, his policies are driving us to socialism at warp speed. Rather than paper cuts, it’s like someone attacking you with an ax. Enough to wake up the normally quiet average Joe. Remember the "Reagan Revolution” of 1980? It represented a national disenchantment with the policies of President Jimmy Carter. Can’t wait for 2012. "

John Richards wrote on Aug 5, 2009 9:48 AM:

" I just learned that this proposed health insurance plan will cover elective abortions. That's a radical departure from current policy which restricts Federal funds for abortions to cases involving rape, incest or danger to the health of the mother. Many of us are morally opposed to have our taxes pay for the abortions of careless women who use it as a substitute for contraception. "

Bauhausfan wrote on Aug 5, 2009 9:55 AM:

" Why not hold a forum for health care for those opposed to the public option?

You can invite who you want to present your plan or plans.

I promise to go and won't interrupt unlike what happened Monday night. "

John Richards wrote on Aug 5, 2009 10:00 AM:

" Rep. Thompson says there is $500 billion worth of waste and fraud in the Medicare system! If true, it is a severe indictment of the effectiveness of him and his colleagues. Let them clear out the waste and fraud first, and if that's successful, we can start talking about using the savings to finance additional health insurance. As it is, Thompson is counting his chickens before they're hatched, a most careless thing to do for someone who should be an example of a prudent role model. "

John Richards wrote on Aug 5, 2009 10:06 AM:

" "This was America’s government telling the citizens “this is what we’re doing, and you can’t do anything about it.”

It reminded me of Gavin Newsom's yelling out "Whether you like it or not!"
But that can't be right, can it, since liberals don't do taunting yells... "

John Richards wrote on Aug 5, 2009 10:18 AM:

" nappalachia wrote: " How do we pay for it? Easy. Quit funding the war machine. Shift the defense budget to healthcare."

The problem with that argument is severalfold. First, Obama is gearing up the war in Afghanistan as the war in Iraq winds down, so there will be little savings. Secondly, one of the primary duties of the federal government is defense. If we taper off the war against foreign terrorists, it will only encourage them to become bolder. Cheap healthcare would be nice, but not at the expense of freedom, liberty and security. "

jbrooks wrote on Aug 5, 2009 10:20 AM:

" To all who are againest the current health care reform initiative I urge and dare you to view the interview by PBS with Wendall Potter a former VP of Cigna Insurance Co. This message was originally posted on Aug. 1st by Post-It.
Below is the link, again I strongly encourage you to view this.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07312009/watch.html "

John Richards wrote on Aug 5, 2009 10:32 AM:

" a teacher wrote: "Brown Shirt tactics."

By Netizen convention, you have just eliminated yourself from the conversation. Attempting to tie your opponents to the Nazi era is verboten, see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law "

TracyK wrote on Aug 5, 2009 10:36 AM:

" I was there Monday and I feel the majority of the audience was interested in what the panel had to say and wanted to have a reasonable discussion. Health care reform is a serious issue and must be discussed in a serious, mature matter. Yet individuals from the Tea Party (and/or others of a conservative learning – not all but some) were incredibly rude and inconsiderate of the speakers, the organizers and the community as a whole. Those that found the need to yell and heckle really did a disservice to their position – they were unruly and immature. I understand this is a passionate issue – as it should be – but it was pretty obvious that some in the audience weren’t interested in a true, mature dialogue about something as complex as health care. They were there to disrupt a community forum and nothing more. No matter how much we may disagree, you will never win hearts and minds by being so inconsiderate of your community. All you do is enrage others and alienate potential allies. "

reason-ator wrote on Aug 5, 2009 10:38 AM:

" JR, are you saying that the government goofed up Medicare, and since it's goofed up they're going to use that as an excuse to goof up health care for everyone ?

As far as the poster who asked "where was the outrage in 2003 when Bush signed an 800 million drug company benefit....", he is right. There was no NVR blog-site, so therefore there was no outrage here ? "

Bauhausfan wrote on Aug 5, 2009 10:51 AM:

" Glenroy - Ira is a liberal advocate and playing with fire…

I think the Methodist Church should lose it’s tax deductible status…imagine if the Catholic Church held a John McCain Health Reform…..libs would stain their shorts….

Why not hold your own forum there? I am sure they would be happy to offer it to you and your ideological brothers and sisters plans to reform health care.

Why is it no one opposed to this bill is willing to hold a public forum to present your ideas? "

a teacher wrote on Aug 5, 2009 10:52 AM:

" mr. feasor - I absolutely did make that connection. I wouldn't have except that this is a totally orchestrated tactic. "

flyingfingers wrote on Aug 5, 2009 11:04 AM:

" wyngrl - Sometimes getting a little taste of your own medicine can be unpleasant. Everybody (including our elected officials) needs to just shut up and read the Constitution of the United States of America and then read HR3200. If Michael had read either one of those documents before Monday night, we could have accomplished something. "

dellasumbrella wrote on Aug 5, 2009 11:21 AM:

" From FP56: "The comments by you, della, krusty, bauhausfan, and others are those by the blind following their leader. I feel sorry for you all as you think these are the best intentions, as they are not."

FP56, allow me to introduce to you democracy -- in which people with thoughts, opinions, education, experience and sometimes, yes, even wisdom, elect their leaders so their leaders will follow their mandates.

Don't like it? Sorry. "

hawkins707 wrote on Aug 5, 2009 11:39 AM:

" This is terrific!!! Nobody in their right mind can applaud this bill, or what is happening. How can anyone trust this when it has to go through RIGHT now, and the legislators don't have any time to read it, so they're basically going to be blindly signing away. It is indisputable that health care reform is needed, but let's get something straight, reform means to better something. Who actually believes that if the gov't takes over our health care anything about it will be better? A real, thoughtful plan of action is needed, but not this. Sorry Obama, nice try. 86 hours to construct a plan of something of this magnitude is disgusting. "

hawkins707 wrote on Aug 5, 2009 11:53 AM:

" To-Gunga Ga Lunga

I've been saying that Obama was the best thing to happen to this country, simply because he is waking everybody up. But you beat me to it in saying that under McCain there would have been small incremental movements towards a more socialist state. You might be right. The republican party has lost sight of what it stands for and has done it's fair share of gov't growth. We will get our country back, and to you libs, God bless America. "

alucawanza wrote on Aug 5, 2009 11:58 AM:

" Kevin Eggers
The meeting was not supposed to be a debate. It was supposed to be informational. There is never a legitimate excuse for the type of behavior that was exhibited at this meeting. No matter how you feel about this issue, mob action is always wrong. Why not hold your own meeting and share your opinions against the bill in a civilized manner?

J.R. Abortion is legal....whether you like it or not. Your moral outrage does not, at this time, have a legal leg to stand on. "

littlered56 wrote on Aug 5, 2009 12:28 PM:

" All the Republicans have to offer is the rude, loud ridicule and fear tactics. they have offered zero to health care in America. I have never understood why people who oppose government health care do not refuse to get medi-care, or draw social securitey???
The best the republican party has going for it today was at the forum..rantings and ravings against any thing and every thing the President tries to do and when that fails resort back to the hype about his birth place. Sit there and spin it over and oever again .
The republican party is still loosing!!! "

PastNapan wrote on Aug 5, 2009 12:37 PM:

" I'm with you flyingfingers. They're tasting their own medicine and not liking it one bit. I love all the libs whining about how disrespectful and uncivilized we are. We are giving your side the same courtesy you have given ours for the last 8 years. We watched your "example" of being civil and respectful during the Prop 8 debate, the war in Iraq and the reelection of George Bush. If you think we are going to sit down and shut up while the likes of obama and pelosi destroy this country you can think again. The bottom line is the democrats can pass this healthcare bill without the Republicans. It's a really tough pill for the libs to swallow that many Democrats aren't buying this nightmare of a bill. "

cab e-girl wrote on Aug 5, 2009 12:50 PM:

" Alu- Mike Thompson, one of the 3 votes we have in Congress, refuses to hold a town hall style meeting. He is afraid to answer the tough questions we want to ask.

I CHALLENGE REP Thompson to a Town Hall Meeting. Your silence to the opposition is deafening. "

dellasumbrella wrote on Aug 5, 2009 2:06 PM:

" From cabe-girl: "call Mike Thompson's office and ask them why he chose a "Forum with a panel of health care professionals” to participate in, rather than a Town Hall Meeting."

Oh, I get it. The mob thought they were going to a town hall meeting, wherein they could just shout down whoever was talking, and get the fears generated and disseminated by Limbelkino'neillobbyistforhealthprofitindustry and their ilk heard over any information the health care professionals might have to offer about the state of health care in the country/county today.

Instead, they walked into a FORUM, wherein intelligent people were presenting information. Bummer.

Don't think I have to ask Thompson why he chose that format. It's a no brainer. And I know who I'd prefer to listen to, and it's not the misinformed mob. "

Raven wrote on Aug 5, 2009 2:06 PM:

" organize one then cab-e-girl and invite him.... "

freeport56 wrote on Aug 5, 2009 2:08 PM:

" http://www.lafferhealthcarereport.org/national-overview

Key Facts and Excerpts from the Research
All sides of the current health care debate acknowledge that American health care can be improved. But current proposals based on President Obama’s policies would:

•worsen the system;
•drive costs up;
•increase health care cost inflation more than doing nothing;
•add more than $285 billion to the deficit over the next 10 years; and
•still leave more than 30 million people uninsured.
According to a recent CNN poll:

•Most Americans like their current health care coverage but are not happy with the overall cost of care.
•More than 80 percent say they’re satisfied with the quality of care they receive. – See source.
Reforms therefore need to focus on costs and not break the parts of the system that currently work. "

dellasumbrella wrote on Aug 5, 2009 2:11 PM:

" FP56 says, "This is war!" Yeah, that's kind of what that mass e-mail that inspired the belligerant crowd was calling for. And the crowd was certainly reflecting that intent in their behavior. "

sdnapa wrote on Aug 5, 2009 2:21 PM:

" so, let's see here

"Mike Thompson said that it would be funded by the 500 billion to be recovered from Medicare fraud"

$500 billion dollars in fraud????
and this is the social medicine program that some of you are calling a success? wow!

so, when the HR3200 ends up $100 trillion dollars in fraud, what reform will take place to recover those debts?

it is interesting to me that for the past 40 years or so most forms of protesting has always been from the left side of the spectrum, but by gosh when the right side starts making noise, well....that's just not right. "

Nurse wrote on Aug 5, 2009 2:38 PM:

" Does anyone have information about insurance regulation outside of the new proposed government changes? Just what is it that we are moving from and to? How can denying care for net negative patients be legal? "

dellasumbrella wrote on Aug 5, 2009 2:43 PM:

" antipc says, "Kudos to the man who hoisted his daughter on his shoulders & approached the speakers to make a clear understanding of who will actually is going to pay for this disaster. "

Did you see the look on that little girl's face? Nothing like using your daughter as a weapon to assault a speaker during a fray.

But then, caring about children's emotions is probably a little too PC for you. "

sdnapa wrote on Aug 5, 2009 2:52 PM:

" @dellsumbrella

i guess it's safe to say that you're listening to the "reasonable" voices of the commentators on cnn/msnbc/abc/cbs? we all know those stations aren't leaning to the left. "

Gabriel wrote on Aug 5, 2009 3:05 PM:

" Has anyone else grown tired of the liberals and democrats who continually throw unsubstantiated charges of racism, being a hater and being members an opposition political party? Why must those of us who value our existing health care choices not given the venting which our concerns are addressing? If your “Obamacare” plan is SO pure, SO near perfect, then you people should welcome the chance to explain how the plan WILL affect us, INCLUDING addressing our many and varied concerns; your reactions should NOT be scripted by the Huffington Post and Rham Emanuel vis-à-vis his Chicago Political Machine’s well known and well oiled mechanisms of fear and tough arming. I smell desperation in your attacks of those who are daring raising their voices at these orchestrated town hall medical meetings! And, I love that smell of your fear; the smell of the house of cards coming crashing down, as we citizens learn the sordid details which congress itself almost didn’t read, but for the same outcry from we “misguided fanatics” as “farmer” put it. Pathetic, very pathetic – is THIS the “Hope and Change” you sought? No thank you! "

cab e-girl wrote on Aug 5, 2009 3:07 PM:

" Della-I really don't care what Thompson's reasons are for not holding a Town Hall Meeting where his constituents can address him without a filter. One of the questions that was selected by the mediator came from our house. First of all he failed to answer our question, and when we tried to get him to answer the question, WE were shouted down by the angry, rude, organized left. Thompson doesn't want to answer our questions. He is hiding behind mediators.

Once again I challenge HIM to hold a TOWN HALL MEETING FOR the average tax paying citizen. This bill will change all our LIVES if it passes. We want a say in this bill!

Mike Thompson, you work for us. WE WANT A TOWN HALL MEETING. You continue taxing us without representation. "

antipc wrote on Aug 5, 2009 3:12 PM:

" Della, I've seen pictures in the NVR of teachers & gay ralleys where the leftists take advantage of children, so lets at least be honest about it.

I personally would not do it....... but it did get their attention. "

cab e-girl wrote on Aug 5, 2009 3:29 PM:

" Della- Why are you personally attacking the opposition, instead of supporting the validity HR3200?

I know this is hard for the radicals, but stop and take a breath. Listen to our concerns. Stop attacking and labeling us as crazy. Our concerns have a great deal of validity. If you are an American they should be your concerns as well.

Can you imagine that little girls face when she turns 18 and realizes the amount of money squandered by this administration? Can you imagine the look of horror on her face when she realizes she will be responsible for the debt as an American? Her father is trying to protect her future. What are you doing to try and protect the future of our children and grandchildren? "

shareathought wrote on Aug 5, 2009 4:01 PM:

" Just in case some haven't paid attention to what is printed with the article above:

"More health care talk...
Rep. Mike Thompson, D-St. Helena, is hosting a live...telephone meeting today...7 to 8 p.m. about health care reform.
People...call toll free (877) 229-8493 and enter the passcode 13293 to participate."

Some of those who are infrequent posters and who responded with legitimate concerns...

(another voice...mikeb...duke2149 "Its just people who want to communicate with their representative" sdnapa " i posted on another blog the website in which i got the actual language of HR 3200 and i asked anyone who could to explain to me exactly what it says")

...might want to write down their questions (to make them clear, concise maybe 30 seconds long) and call in.

There has been much discussion about the legal language and the length of this bill (1,000 pages), and the frustration about what we already have vs what we might get.

As an every-day-American-born-in-this-country-citizen, I couldn't memorize a document of that length and answer questions shouted at me in anger.

As other posters suggested they attended so that they could benefit from our representatives and health care professional's explanation's but missed out on that opportunity; it would've seemed that a listen, then question format may have been useful.

(isn't it possible, some questions have been asked multiple times, while others, might require a bit of contemplation, re-study or research?) "

dellasumbrella wrote on Aug 5, 2009 4:20 PM:

" Cabe-girl: I have to agree Thompson didn't answer all the questions effectively. It was kind of hard to, given the circumstances. Whenever he tried to answer, he was hooted down. And in all honesty, there aren't many people who could explain the provisions of the bill to a crowd unwilling to listen without trying to summarize the ultimate effects as he sees them. BTW, if the mediator selected a question from your house, why are you complaining? My question wasn't selected. I'm not complaining. I also don't know of any "organized" left. I went not knowing who would be there (except one person, who I didn't even see). I went because I wanted to learn more about the bill, because I've been out of touch the last two months. I would like to have heard his answer to the questions of how it would be funded. I believe he was interrupted and hooted down several times, and according to sdnapa he said they'd get 500 billion from fraud. I think he might have said they'd get part of it from fraud and waste, but I had a hard time hearing the rest of his answer, if he even got to finish it. I admit to being one of the people who yelled at the mob (three times) when the speakers were drowned out. No one organized me, and it's frankly out of character for me. I could be ashamed of myself, but the crowd did sort of quiet down a bit after a few people shouted back.

antipc -- I'm glad to hear you personally wouldn't have done that. It didn't get my attention, however, just added to my disdain. "

Raven wrote on Aug 5, 2009 4:33 PM:

" regarding the 'unorganized, spontaneous' demonstrations there is this from the Washington post today.

'Several conservative groups have taken the lead in organizing opposition around the country, including some that are new on the political scene or have been created as offshoots of more established groups.

Conservatives for Patients' Rights, for example, was launched this year by Rick Scott, the controversial former chief executive of the HCA/Columbia hospitals firm who now runs a chain of walk-in clinics in Florida. The group is primarily funded from Scott's own pocket and has spent several million dollars on advertising so far this year.

Scott's group began closely coordinating last month with another fledgling group, called Tea Party Patriots, which got its start during protests earlier this year of the federal bailout of Wall Street and other fiscal issues. CRP's Web site includes an updated list of town-hall style meetings hosted by lawmakers around the country during August.

...Another major player is Americans for Prosperity, a self-proclaimed grass-roots organization that is perhaps best known for opposing smoking restrictions and raising doubts about the validity of global warming evidence. The group, which claims 500,000 members and 24 local chapters, has created an anti-reform project called Patients First and has supplied thousands of printed placards for use in anti-reform protests around the country.

Also in the mix is FreedomWorks, an advocacy group headed by former House majority leader Richard K. Armey (R-Tex.), which distributes a "Health Care Action Kit" for protesters who want to attend local town-hall meetings. Props include an "ObamaCare Insurance Card" with the slogan: "A collective plan administered by the politicians and bureaucrats of the U.S. government." ' "

wyngyrl wrote on Aug 5, 2009 4:39 PM:

" Flyingfingers and PastNapan: You're wrong, it's NOT my kind of medicine. My staunchly conservative grandparents and parents would have grounded me for life if I behaved like that in public. Perhaps if both sides will agree to conduct themselves with civillity on Sunday night, we might all get questions answered. And you do all know that HR3200 is only one of the several proposals right? It's not the finished product, so input is still being solicited. That's the point of the national meetings. "

cab e-girl wrote on Aug 5, 2009 5:30 PM:

" Well Della, it's out of character for me to attend as well. It was my first ever. So why is the left saying this was a well organized assault on these congress people? I think it's because they are attacking the messenger, and not supporting the bill.

My complaint isn't with the mediator who selected the questions, I actually think she did a good job. My complaint is with Thompson and his inability to answer the questions. And when pressed by the audience, the left was very rude to the audience who wanted more complete answers. The most ridiculous was the last question (not ours, but a good question for those over 65.) It was about rationed health care. He claimed the word "rationed" was not in the bill. I had the bill on my lap, and the words "limitations and limits" are in the bill. This should concern all of us. I have parents that I don't want to see go untreated, because they are over 65. Obama himself has said sometimes people need be given a pain pill instead of being treated. This raises big red flags for me. Don't they for you? "

freeport56 wrote on Aug 5, 2009 5:44 PM:

" wyngyrl-

Your information is somewhat incorrect. There are three parts to the Bill
A.) H.R. 3200
B.) Funding
C.) Implementation

House Ways and Means committee just past the funding part, but have not released it yet. House Energy and Commerce is still working on implementation. At the moment it is stuck. "

antipc wrote on Aug 5, 2009 6:02 PM:

" Having been at the meeting, Raven I can assure at least 5 people I know personally don't fit into your wishful mould, reported by a paper 4k miles away.

When I read posts that are similar to yours, regurgitated over & over again they begin to look like analog tv test patterns...... zero substance "

dellasumbrella wrote on Aug 5, 2009 6:03 PM:

" "What are you doing to try and protect the future of our children and grandchildren? "

For starters (or maybe it's dessert), making sure they get adequate health care. "

dellasumbrella wrote on Aug 5, 2009 6:12 PM:

" "Stop attacking and labeling us as crazy. Our concerns have a great deal of validity. If you are an American they should be your concerns as well."

They might be, but it's hard to tell when I can't hear anything but attacks and attempts to drown out information and sabotage dialogue. All I'm learning from the righties is how hard-headed and hard-hearted some folks can be. Not much that I heard from the crowd struck me as valid. It struck me as hystrionic and misguided. I never said anyone was crazy (although as a liberal I've been called worse), but the show put on by the mob the other night sure didn't generate any respect from me for their opinions. "

dellasumbrella wrote on Aug 5, 2009 6:17 PM:

" One more thing, cabe-girl, that little girl will have a pretty good picture, waaay before she's 18, of how the so-called liberals allegedly ripped her off because the Obama administration purportedly squandered all her money.

I'm sure she'll hear it over and over and over again until she can't even begin to think for herself. "

really? wrote on Aug 5, 2009 6:24 PM:

" Very interesting comments. Sadly, I was unable to attend the meeting to see firsthand what all the shouting was about. This seems like a very partisan issue. I found several episodes of Bill Moyer's Journal on this subject to be very informative and enlightening. Of course, an open mind is required.
There are two points I consider important : firstly, we are going to pay one way or the other. Are we going to pay insurance company stockholders, CEOs and their staff or are we going to pay doctors, hospitals and other health care providers? Why should our health care dollars go to the middleman? Secondly, I don't believe the mind set of " I've got mine, too bad for you" is the best policy. In this contracting economy everything is uncertain - your job, benefits may be the next one to disappear. It may just be the one protesting the loudest who will be unable to take their family member to the doctor or hospital, not be able to pay for their medications. If you've never been in that position, you're lucky. I would prefer no one end up in that position. And yes, I am willing to pay. Preventative care is much cheaper than ER and ICU bills.
Set aside the rhetoric - the issue is not going away. "

bdnf wrote on Aug 5, 2009 6:25 PM:

" Couple a' numbers to think about:

1. Per Keith Oberman, Aug. 3, 2009:

"PBS pointed out that the health and insurance industries are spending more than a 1,400,000 dollars a day, just to destroy the "public option" ....

And much of this money is going to, and through, Republicans.

That's 1.4 MILLION bucks a day to make you hate the idea of government competing with Big Insurance.

2. "About 60 percent of people participating in Medicare rate their coverage as a 9 or 10 on a 10-point scale (versus 36-40 percent for private insurance), and 84 percent rate it as a 7 out of 10 or higher."

Medicare is a GOVERNMENT medical program, and it works BETTER than private insurance according to polls! "

cab e-girl wrote on Aug 5, 2009 7:09 PM:

" Pretty simple Della. Our liberty which is slipping through our fingers at an alarming rate. What is good is our health, if we don't have the freedom of choice to make decisions about our health.

Della, there was a lot of rudeness from both sides, and I'm big enough to admit it came from both sides. Why no concern about Thompson's gang of blue shirts? Why no concern about their organizing? Why is it you were only offended by those opposed to HR3200? I find shouting people down rude, regardless of which side you are on. Why don't you? "

nurse wrote on Aug 5, 2009 7:14 PM:

" Thank-you really? and bdnf. As a mother of a son with cancer, the shouts and screams were quite distracting and destructive to the much needed information shared during the forum. It is also concerning to learn that currently some pharmaceutical CEOs compensation is around $30,000,000.00. That is higher than an EXON CEO. With the current state of healthcare, is that kind of salary justified? How can recissions be possible? thank-you "

dellasumbrella wrote on Aug 5, 2009 7:14 PM:

" "Obama himself has said sometimes people need be given a pain pill instead of being treated. This raises big red flags for me. Don't they for you? "

How could that concern me? For 10 years now I've been told by doctors in my health care plan that there's nothing for my acute hip pain and walking difficulties but pain medication. Protocols must be followed, and unless the x-ray looks like chopped liver, over-the-counter pain medications are the treatment of choice. Now that I'm 65, I'm told I'm too old for the less invasive surgery that might help me (which has been offered in other countries for years). Now I must wait until I'm older and have full hip replacement when the time comes. In the meantime, what I've found, is stretching and limited exercise are the only viable (if temporary) remedies, even better than pain meds.

I'm still glad I have my HMO, however, because if I had a life threatening illness or injury, I would receive treatment. Everyone should have that option available.

I guess my expectations aren't too high, but the fact is, insurance companies have been denying treatment for years to people in need, and it's not getting any better. "

WorksInNapa wrote on Aug 5, 2009 7:25 PM:

" I haven't recevied any money. I don't watch FOX news. I haven't received any e-mail from either side of the issue. I only know what I've read. I am curious, if this plan should pass does it include dental and eye care?

At this point I want to be covered under this plan about as much as Rep. Mike Thompson wants to be covered under this plan. "

Mr. Feasor wrote on Aug 5, 2009 7:37 PM:

" Della - we agree about someone (who has the capacity) should have the right to make that choice. But no one, including nightwatchman, has answered my question about how a private plan is no longer an option once it is terminated (section 102). I know a thing or two about statutory construction and mandatory language.

a teacher - thanks for the candor. I now understand the thrust of your brown-shirt comment, which was sheathed in an ironic tone. But check this out:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/8/4/761608/-Tea-Baggers-FAIL-to-disrupt-Health-Care-meeting,-lessons-shared

Hmmm...using police to stifle those from expressing their opinion? I think I heard about someone who did that too...what was that guy's name? Adolf something-or-other?

(Sorry, JR, couldn't resist :) "

msdemo wrote on Aug 5, 2009 7:38 PM:

" I have been wondering if those opposed are against any changes to health care or just this plan. Would you rather we stay the status quo that those who are lucky have a plan and those who are not lucky, either go into debt or just simply roll over and die. I know you keep screaming no new taxes however when the government lets something go unresolved, there are always the people who will say "They should have done something about that" you know we are they. "

dellasumbrella wrote on Aug 5, 2009 7:44 PM:

" "I find shouting people down rude, regardless of which side you are on. Why don't you? "

I do, cab e-girl, and if I hadn't thought it was the only way to cut through the noise, I wouldn't have done it, even once. But there was no way of hearing the speakers with the ruckus the crowd wasted no time in making (even during the introduction -- as instructed in the guidelines for being disruptive). As it was, I heard very little of what was said, due to the distractions by the crowd. And I went there to hear about the health care bill, not to hear angry, re-hashed, right-wing opinions. Why is that so hard to understand? "

cab e-girl wrote on Aug 5, 2009 8:01 PM:

" Della, sounds like you need to go after your insurance company. I am not saying that the current system doesn't need changing, it clearly does. I am not prepared however, to turn all of our health care over to the federal government. I might add if the Republicans were in charge of the white house and congress, would you be so willing to pass something with the monumental changes that this bill will make? Power ebbs and flows, what happens when conservatives are back in power controlling your health care? The Health Care Commissioner this bill talks so much about is appointed by the President. For all of you who believe Bush knew about 9-11 before 9-11, would you trust GW Bush to put someone in charge of your health care? For all of those who believe Bush could not be trusted with national security, do you want him appointing someone to be in charge of your health care? "

nurse wrote on Aug 5, 2009 8:15 PM:

" It does seem like a lot of people have tried to be seen early with a concern for cancer, but end up being treated much later than when they originally had the concern. Seems like there is a similar situation with orthopedics.
PS Are you sure they will treat you?
http://www.harp.org/humbach.htm "

luv2surf wrote on Aug 5, 2009 9:06 PM:

" Obama's Dr. for over 20 years opposes this new health care reform bill! Wow! Interesting to hear why. I wanted to post this link because I believe these arguments are valid, regardless of the news-source. Please, if you have the time, check out this video, it is very informative regardless of your stance on this issue.

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=7861175&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/ "

shareathought wrote on Aug 5, 2009 9:08 PM:

" really? your comments are appreciated (Aug 5, 6:24 PM), as are yours nurse (Aug 5, 7:14 PM).

antipc & cab e please look at this:

"Protest a Townhall in your area!"

http://twitter.com/Ericjodom

(A multitude of similar place exists_not places to question specific aspects, places encouraging people to be disruptive) "

napasean wrote on Aug 5, 2009 9:35 PM:

" Isn't it amazing that when Democrats organize people it's "effective grassroots campaigning" and "community organizing" but when Republicans do it it's "manufactured outrage"?

(How dare people think they live in a Democracy and have freedom of speech!)

I know plenty about this bill and it's unfair, and will lower the quality of healthcare in America. When the same number of doctors and nurses have to provide care for 10-20% more patients the quality of the system has to go down. "

russ wrote on Aug 5, 2009 9:36 PM:

" freeport56 and cab e-girl,

Great, common sense posts. Keep up the good work. You are posting my thoughts too.

Mike Thompson said that $500 billion, to partially fund Obamacare. would come from Medicare cost reductions. Prove it first, show me the money now, and I will support reforms. I don't believe you. "

whatusay wrote on Aug 5, 2009 9:51 PM:

" How to pay for this?
1. We already do. If they don't have insurance they go to the emergency room and they get care. Would you let them die on the curb?
2. Insurance companies do nothing to provide health care. They take 30 cents of every dollar you pay away from health care delivery.
3. There are a lot of marginally effective therapies that are offered. We should have proof of their effectiveness.
4. Some drugs are wildly expensive and offer no advantage over the less expensive alterative.
5. Some doctors order expensive tests because they get a piece of the action.
6. Some doctors order tests out of fear of missing something. Defensive medicine is expensive medicine.
7.The private insurance companies have had free rein to develop an effective health care system over the last 20 years and have given us a totally messed up system that is the most expensive and results in shorter lifespans and higher infant mortality than those countries which have "socialized medicine."
8. What were the profits of the big insurance companies over the last few years?
9. I read the bill and it sounds pretty good to me. "

whatusay wrote on Aug 5, 2009 10:12 PM:

" I think that all these Napans who are opposed to health care reform were also in favor of invading Iraq. Six years later it has been proven that Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11 and Irag did not have weapons of mass destruction. This should be a time to reflect on how wrong you were then because you are just as wrong today. Also, if you know your history, it was a minority of colonists who supported the rebellion in 1776 and all you patriots must admit that the revolution was "change we could believe in." "

itsbushesfault wrote on Aug 5, 2009 10:38 PM:

" I Listend to the Phone meeting today.

I don't understand why Rep. Thompson
is wasting his time? He say there are a few thing he doesn't like , but we need it now! Its like an Informercial With the same old talking points. He Does not care about what we think. If history matters to you, and you can't debunk it
"if is sounds to good to be true? its NOT!"

impossible it add 50 million people and come out even, now thats fuzzy math! "

Kevin Eggers wrote on Aug 5, 2009 11:05 PM:

" Alucawanza said,

" Kevin Eggers

”The meeting was not supposed to be a debate. It was supposed to be informational. There is never a legitimate excuse for the type of behavior that was exhibited at this meeting. No matter how you feel about this issue, mob action is always wrong. Why not hold your own meeting and share your opinions against the bill in a civilized manner?”

Perhaps the Napa Valley Register should make it clear to their readers that this health care forum was only “informational”, not a debate. Their own editorial today was titled. “An unruly night in Napa--At health care forum, rowdy action overshadowed an important debate” They also billed it as a “healthcare forum” in their July 29 article “Thompson For Healthcare”. “Forum” is defined as “an open discussion in a public place” in Webster’s Dictionary.

As far as holding my own meeting, last time I checked Thompson is my Representative. Do you think Thompson would come to my meeting? In case you haven’t noticed, Thompson doesn’t face his critics anymore. He hides behind phone-call town hall meetings. Except when he wants to be involved in one-sided informational forums.

By the way, I do believe health care is broken, which I blame on the corrupt corporate right and the corrupt socialist left. They’re both leading us toward Marxism. Do yourself a favor and research America’s “Communitarian Law”.

I agree that “mob action” is wrong. I never saw a mob, I only saw upset people. It’s hard to sit still in a “civilized manner” when you’re being told your freedom and future are being sold down a Marxist rat hole.

I recognize Rush, Hannity, Savage, etc as America’s greatest propagandists, so don’t lump me in with their followers. "

misfit wrote on Aug 5, 2009 11:07 PM:

" Cab-e-girl...Can you imagine the look on that little girls face when she's old enough to study the Iraq war and learns that we spent 12 Billion dollars each month on it...enough to fund any health care program; that much of that money went to Haliburton and KBR, making those executives rich on the blood of our soldiers. Oh...I see. "

PastNapan wrote on Aug 6, 2009 7:42 AM:

" Dellasumbrella: I hope you and your side continue to call us "the mob" It's really working great for you. Also I find the irony of libs lecturing us on respect and civility just too sweet. Much like another poster wrote I too smell the desperation of the left. Obama and his administration of thugs and tax cheats they are the true Chicago mob. His bill is going down in flames, Pelosi is becoming even more unglued if that's possible. One can only imagine what she's doing behind the scenes to try to get this lunacy to pass. "

Raven wrote on Aug 6, 2009 9:00 AM:

" kevin, have you asked him? "

urte wrote on Aug 6, 2009 9:04 AM:

" Napa liberals must have received a portion of the stimulus package and spent the whole "wad" on kool-aid...

Ever heard the saying there is no free lunch...? Who is going to pay for the "free" health care...? You may want to put down your glass or cup and use whatever brain cells you have left...and think about it...

As far as town hall meetings ...they are staged... by the libs...just like the so called "press conferences" which are a joke...only soft ball questions are allowed so that it is easier for the "empty suit" to speak out of both sides of the mouth...

I have a novel idea...how about some straight answers to our questions...? How...what ..where...and who is going to pay for it...?

It is time for the federal government to stop treating the American people like mushrooms..."keep them in the dark...and feed them manure" "

ganeece wrote on Aug 6, 2009 9:21 AM:

" $500 billion of funding is going to come from medicare & medicaid fraud & cost reductions.

HELLO!!!! What do you think is going to happen when they get a hold of the ENTIRE health care system? It doesn't worry you that there is $500 billion dollars in fraud/over spending going on that they know of and up until now they have done NOTHING about it?

Pony up that cash first, then we'll talk..... "

cab e-girl wrote on Aug 6, 2009 9:46 AM:

" You lefty radicals are so darn cute when you are frothing at the mouth over the right "organizing."

shareathought:

I went to your Twitter site only to find out that a whopping

2,695
following
4,618
followers

belonged to Eric Odom's twitter. Wow, that's incredible. So many followers in the US! You probably have doubled his followers with your post alone! Great job.

I don't belong to twitter, so I refuse to long on. So I refuse to look at his site. Do you really think that one person attending that forum Monday night saw those "Twitters"?

Most of the folks I saw attending were not young techie people (Except for Thompson's Blue Shirts). Do you really think those 60 + folks were sitting there watching their cell phones for a "twitter" on how they should behave? I can't speak for all the attendees, but my cell phone was off, as sign of respect for the panel.

I must the left has been very entertaining for me this week. "

Raven wrote on Aug 6, 2009 10:02 AM:

" for all those who dont like what you feel are staged meetings, the solution is simple...hold your own and invite Thompson.

and here is a little tidbit from AP today..

A spokesman for Rep. Brad Miller, D-N.C., said this week he wouldn't be holding any town halls after his office received a death threat from a caller who said Miller "could lose his life over this." "

John Richards wrote on Aug 6, 2009 10:04 AM:

" della wrote: " all the speakers faced a hostile crowd, spoke articulately and intelligently, and answered questions."

The thing is, they refused to answer the tough questions, like whether illegal aliens would be covered. And when asked if the bill included rationing of elderly care, they lied and said there was no rationing. "

John Richards wrote on Aug 6, 2009 10:15 AM:

" Reason-ator wrote: "JR, are you saying that the government goofed up Medicare, and since it's goofed up they're going to use that as an excuse to goof up health care for everyone."

That's not what I said. All I'm saying is that if there really is $500 billion of waste in Medicare (according to Mike Thompson), let him and his colleagues fix that problem first, and if that's successful, we can talk about using the savings to fund additional health insurance. "

dellasumbrella wrote on Aug 6, 2009 10:19 AM:

" "Della, sounds like you need to go after your insurance company."

Cabe-girl, you're not suggesting I sue, are you? How litigious of you.

Here's the thing. I do like the idea of administrative health courts (or whatever they're being called) because it would be nice to know, without the mess and expense of lawsuits, if the treatment we receive is actually the "standard of care". But short of suing, how does one go about "going after health insurance". One doesn't. And the problem with costs is lawyers, isn't it? I mean that's what I kept hearing at the forum. Anyway, I can't think of anything more stressful than being a party to a lawsuit, and I've already paid out of pocket for a chiropractor to treat my orthopedic problems in the best way he knows how. And every once in awhile I get a steroid shot in one part of my body or another, which can give relief for "anywhere from 2 days to 6 months" according to my orthopedist, but is usually only about a month for me and also tends to compromise the immune system.

Anyway, cab e-girl, thanks for the concern.

As for why do I trust Obama more than I trust Bush? Because he says the sort of things I've long believed are true and just, because his record reflects action and ideology I can respect, because he represents my values, and because I trusted him enough to vote for him. "

John Richards wrote on Aug 6, 2009 10:22 AM:

" alu wrote: "J.R. Abortion is legal....whether you like it or not. Your moral outrage does not, at this time, have a legal leg to stand on. "

1. Did I say or imply it was illegal?
2. Is it not a fact that the Federal government currently restricts abortion funding to cases involving rape, incest or danger to the health of the mother?
3. Is it not true that this bill would radically change that policy?

I rest my case.
Your attempt to sidetrack the issue is rather transparent. "

cab e-girl wrote on Aug 6, 2009 10:41 AM:

" No, I don't think you should sue, but there are appeals processes (I have done that before), and found it to be a useful tool. Sometimes you have to be a little loud to get their attention ;)

I wish you the best. "

cab e-girl wrote on Aug 6, 2009 10:49 AM:

" Della, my point about Presidential Trust is that every four years we have Presidential elections. What happens when you don't trust the President to appoint the right person for "Health Care Commissioner"? Your stuck with someone managing your health care, you don't have other options unless you can leave the country or afford to pay a doc out of pocket. "

dellasumbrella wrote on Aug 6, 2009 11:00 AM:

" JR -- could you please direct me to the page in the bill where the rationing is mentioned? I'm pretty good at legalese, but I couldn't find it last night skimming through the thousand pages.

Thanks,
Della "

dellasumbrella wrote on Aug 6, 2009 11:04 AM:

" cab e-girl -- Thanks. I appreciate that. "

shareathought wrote on Aug 6, 2009 1:29 PM:

" cab e-girl 8/6 9:46 AM:
"I went to your Twitter site"

I believe you missunderstand, it is not my site; you had asked a question Aug/5

"...why is the left saying this was a well organized assault on these congress people?"

I gave one example following one name (of several names), from just one "tea party" site.

(Its like research_who'd make disparaging remarks and why; picking one name, and finding he'd been hired by one party to undermine the another party, and stirring up emotions_not a person with legitimate concerns on the health-care of their country-at-large)

I also wrote: "A multitude of similar place exists_not places to question specific aspects, places encouraging people to be disruptive"

It seems that the issue of health care is very important to you (that is a good thing).
On this forum some posts are accusatory, some posts are defensive, some are full of insults.
A few posts have legitimate healthcare/cost questions and a few posts have legitimate answers.

Read between the lines. "

shareathought wrote on Aug 6, 2009 1:50 PM:

" When we throw our thoughts into this medium, we often are writing from emotion, we might hear/read differently then the poster intends.

Some haven't experienced problems with their health-care-insurance, they haven't been seriously ill/injured, or lost family/friends for things that could have been prevented. They are lucky.

We could all be living healthier and we should have health-care-maintenance.

Following one posters comments on concerns regarding health care are some thoughts...

8/4 8:35PM:
"We were held in a room, not allowed to ask unmediated questions and forced to listen..."
Held against your will?!?

"A growing number of Americans are questioning..."
Good, its time more of us asked questions.

"I have heard docs and nurses say this bill will destroy the best parts of our health care system."
Who are "they"; why do "they" say this bill will destroy our health care; have "they" read it; references?

"All attending surely would have benefited from asking questions..."
Form your questions, call MT' office, politely voice your concerns (I did);
or write a letter.

8/5 5:30PM:
“…it's out of character for me to attend as well. It was my first ever.”
Which may explain why you haven't experienced "forums".

8/5 8:01PM:
“I might add if the Republicans were in charge of the white house and congress, would you be so willing to pass something with the monumental changes that this bill will make?”

Republicans were in charge: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=2635796n&tag=contentMain;contentBody

8/4 6:26 PM
"I think there was a lot of frustration in the room and people wanted answers."

We all benefit from both good questions and honest answers. "

sicksense wrote on Aug 6, 2009 2:46 PM:

" Cab e-girl it seems Della isn't interested in your question. She keeps dodging it. "

cab e-girl wrote on Aug 6, 2009 3:14 PM:

" Share:

Yes if we wanted to ask questions, we were told we had to sit and listen to the forum before we could comment. We were not allowed to question the forum. We were to sit like good little children and not question them. Really? In my America?

I would never expose a Doc or Nurse on this site, ask your own docs and nurses.

I have politely called MT's office and got the same drivel from his staff that we got from MT at the forum.

Too bad we didn't get to ask honest questions and get honest answers. Guess we weren't the good little children they wanted us to be. "

John Richards wrote on Aug 6, 2009 3:39 PM:

" Della wrote: "JR -- could you please direct me to the page in the bill where the rationing is mentioned?"

Read page 29, lines 4-16 ("Annual Limitation"). "

Raven wrote on Aug 6, 2009 5:27 PM:

" so, JR,..after reading that it appears the same as almost every health insurance policy out there now....I know of none that have no limits on amounts ....how is this different? "

John Richards wrote on Aug 6, 2009 6:53 PM:

" Raven wrote: "....I know of none that have no limits on amounts."

My Kaiser Permanente health plan has no limits. "

shareathought wrote on Aug 6, 2009 7:11 PM:

" In response to_gateonfire who wrote 8/4, 3:51pm: "I too would like to know "what are the illegals costing us?" Lets see if the Napa Valley Register posts this and let's see what people estimate. "

I did some quick research and found that the undocumented immigrant worker costs the state of Minnesota about 300 million a year but there is more to the story...

http://www.southsidepride.com/2009/01/articles/Immigrant_workers.html

“The economic benefit of undocumented immigrants is estimated at $3.8 billion annually” (Minnesota)

“The bottom line is… Minnesota gets more in taxes from undocumented immigrant workers than it gives them in services.”

More food-for-thought on urban myth and the undocumented…

http://www.seiu.org/a/immigration/they-take-our-jobs-debunking-immigration-myths.php

“On average, undocumented immigrants contribute more in taxes than they consume in public benefits, and are estimated to have contributed nearly $50 billion in federal taxes…”

“Study after study shows that undocumented immigrants contribute more to the economy than they take.”

Another study…

http://knowledge.wpcarey.asu.edu/article.cfm?articleid=1525

“…in Arizona, the total state tax revenue attributable to immigrant workers (naturalized citizens and non-citizens) was $2.4 billion. Associated fiscal costs (including education, health care, and law enforcement) were $1.4 billion -- yielding a net benefit of $940 million.”

I didn't look find California but I would suggest that you too could find legitimate research.

It might benefit all, if the undocumented worker also had health-care-coverage (an employer who hires illegal workers won’t be buying them insurance).

Since, the mid-sixties, seemingly due to prejudice and fear there has been a tenfold increase in costs for the Border Patrol. "

shareathought wrote on Aug 6, 2009 7:31 PM:

" Mr.Feasor 8/5, 7:37PM
Thank you for the link/s

(actually, you have shared others_the healthcare needs of the undocumented Guatemalan was an unusual situation_I guess in those kinds of situations when, one has to choose "between-the-rock-and-the-hard-place" many of us might make a moral decision vs a legal. I'd prefer to take care of his mother_but that wasn't a choice)
*****

Regarding another thought, you wrote…
“…using police to stifle those from expressing their opinion?”

It seems that location would make a difference; my guess is that churches aren’t as likely to ask the police to stand by, as would employees of a public library, who, have heard of intended disruption.
Furthermore, the meeting was one of those cases in which we might ask ourselves, where does on person's "freedom" end and another's begin; does one have the right to shout so that a second person can't hear a third?
Shouting might be considered of form of stifling an opinion (my guess is more hoped to hear the speaker/s than the shouts).

DB wrote:
“…efforts to disrupt and thwart public discourse on civic matters are profoundly anti-democratic.” "

dellasumbrella wrote on Aug 6, 2009 7:53 PM:

" "Cab e-girl it seems Della isn't interested in your question. She keeps dodging it."

I thought I had answered it. Must've missed something, sorry. Easily distractible. "

dellasumbrella wrote on Aug 6, 2009 7:56 PM:

" "My Kaiser Permanente health plan has no limits." Oh, JR, it has limits you can't even imagine.

My guess is the public health plan will be patterned after something like Kaiser. Not a bad plan, but they have their ways of keeping their costs within reason. Protocol, protocol, protocol. "

shareathought wrote on Aug 6, 2009 8:13 PM:

" cab e-girl 8/6, 3:14 PM:
I am disappointed. As you wrote in an earlier comment, this is your first time to be involved; if that is accurate, it is understandable that you didn't know.
I will tell you_
Most often those who are voted on to represent us are presented in similar forums.
The audience might pick up a 3X5 card and write a question.
Some questions that are accurate, legible, and short may be picked to be answered.
Napa City and County have had similar "forums" for years.
I'd believed that you were commenting here to ask questions or share knowledge.

With comments like these: "We were to sit like good little children and not question them." and "Guess we weren't the good little children they wanted us to be." immaturity is showing.

When, I called MT's office and asked that specific questions be answered (such as: "will this health care cover dental and eye care?" another's question that, I found at this site); I was treated with respect.

What Health-Care reform questions do you want answered? "

shareathought wrote on Aug 6, 2009 8:27 PM:

" luv2surf 8/5, 2009 9:06pm wrote:
" Obama's Dr. for over 20 years opposes this new health care reform bill!

Thank you for this link.
http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=7861175&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/

I understand Dr Scheiner to say that the Health Care reform doesn’t go far enough.
Didn't he say that Medicare never interfered with what he needs to do as, a physician but that private insurance does?
(With, a cost difference of ~400 billion; private-insurance costs more. I want to hear more on that)

Furthermore, he suggested that Drs be a part of the discussions (Health Care professionals were available at the meeting held here in Napa).

The Dr wanted to say more. "

dellasumbrella wrote on Aug 6, 2009 8:41 PM:

" Thanks JR. That particular paragraph actually refers to "cost sharing", and limits the amounts individuals have to pay for their portion of medical/insurance costs.

See:

http://www.bls.gov/opub/cwc/cm20040326ar01p1.htm

"One way of sharing costs, in all types of plans, is to require employees to contribute towards the cost of their coverage. In addition, the following major medical plan provisions are traditional types of benefit cost sharing used in non-health maintenance organization plans:
Annual deductible
Annual out-of-pocket expense maximum
Lifetime maximum
Coinsurance"

As these costs become prohibitive (especially with exorbitant copayments and deductibles) under insurance companies (not Kaiser, except for the elderly who have it as supplemental insurance), this provision seems to be limiting the burden placed on the insured individual.

If I'm wrong about that, I hope someone will let me know. "

Raven wrote on Aug 6, 2009 9:57 PM:

" better double check that JR...kaiser usually has lifetime limits on all their plans....they may be higher then most but they do have them. "

luv2surf wrote on Aug 7, 2009 2:42 AM:

" "Democracy is when the indigent, and not the men of property, are the rulers." - Aristotle
This was written over 3 thousand years ago, yet we are still dominated, manipulated, coerced and played like fools by "special interest" or in Aristotle's time, "men of property". When do we as a people learn to think individually and evolve? Do you think they laugh? Do you think they say to themselves "if we put another 500 mil. into this campaign, we will convince this naive populace into believing that suffering is actually good? We already have a large majority already thinking that this is the best healthcare in the world, regardless of all the data out there proving otherwise, why not? With enough money invested, they will believe. "

sdnapa wrote on Aug 7, 2009 10:00 AM:

" with all this talk about this "public option" plan, no where in the document do i read:

*what amount will be charged for a co-pay? who decides on the amount?

*what amount, if any, will people pay as a monthly premium?

*it appears there are 4 or 5 levels of care (general, premium, premium plus, etc)...what does this mean?

*who decides what category you get to be on?

*why is it fair for someone to get general & another person gets premium plus?

*so if the maximum out of pocket expenses for an individual is $5000 per year and that person can't afford the $5000, what then? do they still get care?

*who's paying into this to get it funded? individuals? businesses?

*is it strictly funded by taxing the "rich"?

so many questions, so little answers "

shareathought wrote on Aug 7, 2009 10:02 AM:

" luv2surf 8/7, 2:42 AM:

"if we put another 500 mil. into this campaign, we will convince this naive populace into believing that suffering is actually good? We already have a large majority already thinking that this is the best healthcare in the world, regardless of all the data out there proving otherwise, why not? With enough money invested, they will believe. "

The problem is that "they" (whoever "they" might be), are playing us like puppets from both sides, rather then, telling us the specifics of why they are or aren't for a particular legislation (or better yet, fixing it), "they" are turning us into unthinking-slogan-shouters.

This shouldn't be a great civil-war, we shouldn't behave like "a bunch of dogs going after our own tails".

I do appreciate what Della, Mr.F, JR, night-man and others are doing; they're discussing concerns, details, and/or interpretations and legalize.

I thank them. "

sdnapa wrote on Aug 7, 2009 10:06 AM:

" the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money - margaret thatcher "

Grits wrote on Aug 7, 2009 10:55 AM:

" sdnapa wrote on Aug 7, 2009 10:06 AM:

" the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money - margaret thatcher "

Exactly - the people at the town hall meetings are basically your middle class - you know, the folks that pay for everything? "Grass roots" movement is the term used when you agree with those who protest; "Nazi" is the term used when you don't.

And they're upset - and worried - and have every right in accordance with the first amendment to speak their minds. I email the White House all the time - I was invited to do so in keeping with the "transparent" process of government - I guess I'm on the "fishy" list now! This government, after stating that they would "come back twice as hard" on the protesters, is now at war with it's own people - at least the ones who pay for it all. No better than the despotic dictator in Iran!

As we all have heard - "Don't bite the hand that feeds you." "

dellasumbrella wrote on Aug 7, 2009 12:41 PM:

" Grits -- Maybe you need to take a second look to see who is "at war with its own people".

(Let's call this a revolution!!!! - TeaPartyist)

(This is war! - FP 56)

(I have seen the enemy and it is us - Pogo) "

prolifeman wrote on Aug 7, 2009 2:39 PM:

" Thompson talked about eliminating waste - why won't he agree with defunding Planned Parenthood. They consume lots of government money killing the unborn. "

shareathought wrote on Aug 7, 2009 6:19 PM:

" antipc 8/4, 8:40 PM:
"...At least 2/3 of the folks at the meeting last night were not happy..."

Where did those 2/3 come from? "

sdnapa wrote on Aug 7, 2009 6:53 PM:

" such a disappointment not to get any comments/answers to my valid common sense questions.

no where to even look to find the answers???

very interesting. "

shareathought wrote on Aug 7, 2009 9:33 PM:

" sd 8/7, 10:00AM:

Some of your questions may be answered here:
http://waysandmeans.house.gov/MoreInfo.asp?section=52

Click here:
"How the Health Care Surcharge Works"

It will take you here:
http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/111/htsw.pdf

Where you find this:
"o A family making $350,000 would not owe any surcharge at all.

o A family making $400,000 would contribute $500 to help provide access to
affordable health care for all Americans – 0.13% of their annual income.

o A family making $500,000 would contribute $1,500 to help provide access to affordable health care for all Americans – 0.3% of their annual income.

o A family making $1,000,000 would contribute $9,000 to help provide access to affordable health care for all Americans – 0.9% of their annual income." "

John Richards wrote on Aug 7, 2009 10:29 PM:

" Della wrote: "That particular paragraph actually refers to "cost sharing".

After rereading that page (29), I have to admit, you are correct. I take back my criticism of that section. Thanks for correcting my wrong impression. "

antipc wrote on Aug 8, 2009 1:24 PM:

" Share, I assume they came from Thompsons district. "

shareathought wrote on Aug 9, 2009 1:07 AM:

" sd & anti-pc (8/7 6:53pm & 8/8 1:24pm)

How much more research can other posters do for you? The links are provided & still you won't go and read yourselves!

You might learn more about how our government works if you go here:
http://www.house.gov/

Go down to the middle of the page and click on: "What does the House do?" It will explain how laws are made and enacted. "

sdnapa wrote on Aug 9, 2009 6:49 PM:

" @share

excuse me share, but i HAVE read what i can comprehend of the legalese 1,000+ page HR 3200 bill, and no where do i find how much a co-payment is, nor how much a premium will be per month...these seem to be pretty simple questions, but i guess not. i'm supposed to read how laws are made rather than question how much something will cost me?

when looking at car insurance, life insurance, home owners insurance, usually the basic questions are answered:

your co-pay is this
your premium is this...etc. etc. etc.

i was hoping someone might be able to help, you know give me the line number & page number where i can find the answers to my questions (because i'm obviously too stupid to find it myself) "

shareathought wrote on Aug 9, 2009 10:38 PM:

" sd_8/9, 6:49PM

I'm sorry, I believed you were playing games; anyone intelligent enough to be involved, asking questions and posting them here is to be commended.

I did not find the particulars (regards cost), within the Bill but with the Ways and Means Committee info (making material more readily accessible would would be best).

http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/111/htsw.pdf

• The bill would require the top 1.2% of earners – households with adjusted gross income in excess of $350,000 (married filing a joint return) and $280,000 (single) – to contribute towards the cost of providing access to affordable health care for all Americans through a new health care surcharge.

• The health care surcharge only applies to income earned in excess of $350,000.

I have not found anything about actual co-pays (and that is a good point to bring up with our representatives). "

sdnapa wrote on Aug 10, 2009 11:18 AM:

" @share

i accept your apology.

i have done the best homework i can, and i simply cannot understand how in the world ANYONE can be in support of HR3200 since we don't know how much we'll pay for it.

simply charging a "surcharge" to rich people won't begin to cover the amount of money this thing will take.

there is no such thing as a free lunch, and people should not get something for nothing unless there are extreme circumstances.

where is the provision in this bill about co-charges people will pay?

where is the provision about premiums?

am i to believe that people getting the benefit of health care will pay nothing for it even if they are able to at least pay something for it, but don't want to??

another "good intentioned" social program that will create more people dependent on the government. bad news. bad news.

bankrupt. bankrupt. "

dellasumbrella wrote on Aug 10, 2009 12:29 PM:

" SD Napa:

The page number JR cited above (Read page 29, lines 4-16 ("Annual Limitation") refers to limitations on copays (share of cost). Evidently, there's no hard numbers on exactly what premiums would be (that I could find), but there is that provision which places a yearly limit on the amount of share of cost a person would have to pay (see my response to JR, above).

I would imagine the premiums would depend on what your coverage currently is, because it would be different for different types of coverage, as it is now. My understanding is there will be some assistance with premium payments (for the public plan) for those who can't afford them at all, but again it's not clear exactly how that will work out. It's kind of like trying to take all the insurance policies in existence today, add one more, and have a handle on what all the various charges might be.

But those details would certainly be useful and I think we should keep researching the issue to figure out what they are likely to be. "

dellasumbrella wrote on Aug 10, 2009 12:37 PM:

" SD Napa and others: If you're concerned about the economic effects of health care reform overall, this is a MUST read (long, but very informative):

http://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/eop/cea/TheEconomicCaseforHealthCareReform/ "

Tinamac wrote on Aug 10, 2009 2:18 PM:

" Prostate cancer when caught early enough is 100% treatable in the US. when caught at the same time in Canada it's 95% curable. England= 77%.

You cannot put a price on quality. and I want to add also, I know a ton of dems that are against this bill and am positive it's mix of republicans, democrats and independents alike that are wary of this bill. "

sdnapa wrote on Aug 10, 2009 9:22 PM:

" @dellsumbrella

while i appreciate the information you have shared, it leaves me wondering (again), how i can get on board with a plan when the costs/coverages are an unknown.

sorry, but i would never buy an insurance policy wherein i don't know what i'm getting & how much it will cost.

i honestly cannot believe other people are so blindly following along not knowing exactly what they're going to get or not get. "

shareathought wrote on Aug 10, 2009 10:44 PM:

" There are many who are "in the health care business"; those health care professionals like physicians who only want to help people others and then there are those who only want to make money off others.

Rick Scott http://www.uow.edu.au/arts/sts/bmartin/dissent/documents/health/access_columbia_hca.html

There are many doctors who do not believe we should have any medical insurance and that the health care reform does not go far enough.

Dr. David Scheiner, M.D.
http://www.citizen.org/pressroom/release.cfm?ID=2935 "

John Richards wrote on Aug 11, 2009 11:25 AM:

" The biggest problem I see with this bill is that the funding is not in place. The ones pushing this bill claim that half of the funding will come from savings by eliminating waste and fraud in Medicare. I just don't believe that can be done, or it would have been done already. This is all a big pipe dream. What are these legislators smoking? "

RN wrote on Aug 11, 2009 12:40 PM:

" Will this affect Kaiser membership ??? "

dellasumbrella wrote on Aug 11, 2009 1:07 PM:

" sdnapa -- If you're covered through your employer, you are probably already buying a policy without knowing what it will cost or what's in it, unless you're lucky enough to choose between different policies.

That won't change.

If you're not covered through your employer, you can choose a policy that you can afford, as I understand it. "

shareathought wrote on Aug 11, 2009 2:23 PM:

" JR 8/11, 11:25AM
Wrote something like:

"The biggest problem I see with this bill is that the funding is not in place. [Based on] the claim... half of the funding will come from savings... [by] eliminating waste and fraud... [if] that [could] be done... it would have been done already.

Not necessarily; if, I understand correctly, then, some of our representatives have been working to make healthcare or insurance changes for many, many, years (and through several administrations).

The insurance companies have lots of power.

With, expected increase in healthcare costs, even more of us may be forced to go without insurance, thereby, causing an increase in premiums and co-pays for those of us who keep what insurance we do have.

Without reform now, our health may be in hock to the insurance industry. "

nogovernment wrote on Aug 15, 2009 4:52 PM:

" Government is a disaster, can't run anything. Abolish all executive departments except State and Defense. Absolutely no Medicare (was a mistake in 1965). Forget MediCal and the like. SCHIP is a mistake. Police and fire protection by subscription to private providers. Same with water and sewer, highways. Replace government regulation with self-regulating industry entities like FINRA, NAM. and the Chambers of Commerce. Aliens contribute nothing to the USA. Send them all away. Good ridance. We'll be stronger without them. "

Raven wrote on Aug 15, 2009 7:19 PM:

" SCHIP has helped bring thousands of children into the system, giving them vital preventive care that actually reduces the long term...so explain to us again how that was a failure.

As for the chambers of commerce they are a reactionary group that opposes any regulation on business at all, such as the minimum wage, the 8 hour working day...yeah put them in charge......shaking my head "

shareathought wrote on Aug 19, 2009 10:31 PM:

" We need more, not less.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z144CnlNyrk&feature=aso "

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