Mountain lion sighted in Carneros | Napa Valley Register

Home » News » Local

Mountain lion sighted in Carneros

Thursday, June 25, 2009

Comment

By MIKE TRELEVEN
Register Staff Writer

Mike Treleven articles

November 22nd, 2009

Carneros home of anti-moth effort

Of Pests and People

Moth Wars

Moth makes more work at harvest

November 14th, 2009

Yountville pond wrinkled noses with the breeze

The Napa Sheriff's Department received a call of a potential mountain lion sighting in the Carneros District around the area of the Carneros Inn and Old Sonoma Road in the south county.

The time of the sighting could not be verified Tuesday afternoon by the sheriff’s department.

Historically, it is not unusual for a mountain lion be sighted in the Carneros District, according to the Department of Fish & Game.

Deputies were checking the area for potential tracks.

Fish & Game workers said Tuesday they had not received a report of a mountain lion sighting in Carneros or anywhere else in Napa County.

127 comment(s)

Mr. Awesome wrote on Jun 25, 2009 7:06 AM:

" I don't think this is the first Cougar sighting near the Carneros Inn. "

antipc wrote on Jun 25, 2009 8:07 AM:

" DFG should open a season & start issuing tags. These cats don't fear humans & are decimating our deer population. "

native74 wrote on Jun 25, 2009 8:20 AM:

" Hah! I knew it...I saw one several years ago on Buchli Station and some people thought I had made it up. "

detritus wrote on Jun 25, 2009 8:21 AM:

" I wonder how much it cost the taxpayers to pay the deputies to look for cat tracks? Just assume it is a lion, the biologists told you that it's not unusual to have lions there. Mountain Lions don't like the taste of people. There are probably 15-20 cats around Napa, many hunting the fringes of neighborhoods each night. If they liked to eat people then we would have hundreds of attacks in Napa, and thousands in the State each year. We have something like 14 attacks on humans since they started keeping track. NVR, lets not promote fear and misunderstanding in readers with whaI I call "scare stories." Lions are a natural part of a healthy functioning ecosystem acting as a top predator, not a device to rile readers and sell papers. "

TAXPAYER wrote on Jun 25, 2009 8:56 AM:

" Looks like I need to start putting out some kitty food. "

krusty wrote on Jun 25, 2009 9:48 AM:

" There is no problem with our deer population, antipc. I see plenty of them around. "

pharper wrote on Jun 25, 2009 10:33 AM:

" I live in Carneros and I've never once seen so much as a mountain lion footprint.

And antipc - that's interesting. The argument most deer hunters use is that they're helping to thin the deer population, which is out of control. But, uh...sounds like the cats do a good job of that already! Besides, they tend to go for the weak and sick deer, as they're easier to catch, which helps keep the deer population healthy. "

napapop wrote on Jun 25, 2009 10:37 AM:

" will someone explain how a mountain lion is a "healthy part of the ecosystem. I thought they just ate farm animals, deer and other non violent animals, and I think they also will jump a human now and then. I can't imagine what good they are. "

pbfallon wrote on Jun 25, 2009 10:43 AM:

" ANTIPC..Yep, just give you a tag and let you shoot the crap out of anything in sight. That mentality is a bit old. Maybe you should stop driving, since more deer are killed by cars than cougars!!

Give that some thought. "

angrytoo wrote on Jun 25, 2009 10:44 AM:

" These animals deserve to be here as much as we do. If anything we are the ones that are driving them out and taking over the land for our grapes, roads, houses, etc.
I can't tell you how many coyotes I've seen over the past month. "

TAXPAYER wrote on Jun 25, 2009 10:44 AM:

" Krusty, when was the last time you saw a deer by the Carneros inn. "

TAXPAYER wrote on Jun 25, 2009 10:49 AM:

" Pharper, They more offen go for the baby deer and they will not stop killing just what they can eat. "

native74 wrote on Jun 25, 2009 10:56 AM:

" Mr. Awesome...thanks for the second belly hurting laugh this morning! "

antipc wrote on Jun 25, 2009 10:58 AM:

" What's really interesting, pharper, is being an avid deer hunter for the 35 plus years I can unequivocally state that you are incorrect on both counts.

BTW, I've seen 5 cats in the wild. One of them trying to catch a perfectly healthy doe. "

pharper wrote on Jun 25, 2009 11:12 AM:

" There was a total of 7 cougar attacks in California between 1991 and 2003. Of these, two were fatal. That hardly seems like cause for all of us to pick up our guns and go on a cougar-killing rampage.

Fact remains, taxpayer, that cougars still keep control of the deer population. Killing them would only unbalance it even more. "

TAXPAYER wrote on Jun 25, 2009 11:20 AM:

" Since 1994 Napa County has issued 120 depredation permits for confirmed lion livestock killings. Under issued authority permits 78 lions were killed.
Sonoma county has about the same numbers.
My assumptions is that half of the problem lions killed are under a permit or reported.
So you can see we have a very large lion population. "

crackertransplant wrote on Jun 25, 2009 11:22 AM:

" The deer population really has no worry from a few lion's around here. We really have no worries from a few lions here and there. Let the cats be unless they are causing issues... which they are not. "

antipc wrote on Jun 25, 2009 11:24 AM:

" pbfallon, I don't want to kill the crap out of EVERYTHING, just coyotes & mtn. lions.

Ya know, come to think of it those stinkin' golden eagles kill fawns too. "

ganeece wrote on Jun 25, 2009 11:28 AM:

" Pharper, for having never seen a mountian lion you sure do seem to know alot about them.

The problem is that they don't just kill the sick weak deer. They kill the fawns, your dogs, sheep, goats, etc. And Taxpayer you couldn't be more correct. They don't just kill to eat. They will slaughter your whole heard in one night and just leave them... maybe eat one or two. They may not be a huge threat to humans but they sure don't deserve to be a "specially protected species" as DFG states they are. "

wined0wnnapa wrote on Jun 25, 2009 11:58 AM:

" wait, are we still talking about 40 year old single women who prey on young men? I think shooting them is a little harsh. "

pharper wrote on Jun 25, 2009 12:01 PM:

" I do know a lot about them; I did a report on them not too long ago and I have a tendency to research creatures I'm fascinated by. I spent most of my life wanting to be a veterinarian; I've read a lot. Obviously this makes me no more qualified than anyone else, I'm jsut saying. I've researched quite a bit.

Mountain lions are wild creatures. What did you expect them to do when humans encroached on their habitat? We push them out and leave them no choices, then blame them and decide to kill them? That doesn't seem right. I think the solution is for farmers to keep better track of their livestock. Get a donkey; they were traditionally used to protect flocks of sheep from predators, and they're surprisingly effective.

The deer population is in no danger. "

vocal-de-local wrote on Jun 25, 2009 12:10 PM:

" I don't know whether to love em or hate em! On the one hand, they keep the deer away from my garden. On the other hand they have killed pets in the neighborhood. We have quite a few of them in Angwin.

I never go hiking alone in this area. When we do go hiking, we bring some type of weapon with us, not a gun!

My son was mountain biking in Angwin when a lion came charging across the upper hill. My son took off with lightning speed. I think they were equally afraid of eachother. The lion probably heard the rustling of leaves my son crossed over and thought is was a deer. When the lion came running in the direction of my son, it did not head directly toward him but ran past him as though it was saying "woops, wrong target!"

Authorities did kill a mountain lion in my neighborhood because it was not only killing pets, but it was bold enough to go right up onto people's porches to hang out. One woman in the area witnessed a lion carrying her pet cat away in its mouth. Their population needs to be kept in check but not wiped out. We do need them to keep other animal populations in check.

And btw, I saw a lion crawl under a vineyard fence in the Winter. Are we supposed to report sightings? "

geezernapa wrote on Jun 25, 2009 12:12 PM:

" Nothing like a story that reinforces human beings are not always at the top of the food chain to get considerable reaction............... "

detritus wrote on Jun 25, 2009 12:36 PM:

" A common misconception is that DFG is to blame for people not being able to hunt them. Actually DFG would probably very much love to manage the lion populations, but California voters in all there wisdom and love of all things cute and fluffy voted through legislation to ban the take of lions. DFG must abide by the law "we" voted on.

What do ranchers and goat farmers expect to happen when they put out an all you can eat goat buffet in Mt. Lion country? No shed tears here. Better planning usually pays off.

Google trophic level/dynamics to learn more about why we need Mountain Lions. Without them the ecological system folds from the top down. "

antipc wrote on Jun 25, 2009 1:10 PM:

" Sorry detritus, Ca voters didn't enact the ban on hunting cats, it was the uninformed state legislature.

How many of you cat lovers are willing to fork over the money to reimburse ranchers for livestock or the DFG for lost revenues from hunting licenses? Maybe you want show us how to build a cat proof fences (LOL) & pay for that as well. "

krusty wrote on Jun 25, 2009 1:13 PM:

" TAXPAYER, I'm almost never near the Carneros Inn so I haven't seen one there, but I've seen them in plenty of other places. Places I didn't see them ten years ago. There's a group of deer that spends a lot of time in Westwood Hills. Late at night they come down close to Browns Valley Road. I saw a doe just the other day between St. Helena and Calistoga. I've also seen them numerous times on Jamieson Canyon.

Pharper, makes a good point. Hunters are a bigger threat to deer populations than any mountain lions are. For fear of getting this post banned, I won't suggest what we could do to hunters.

Look where the mountain lion sightings are. They aren't in places that have been developed for decades. They're seen in places that have been recently developed. I'll set up my tent in some of your front lawns and we'll see how some of you like having your habitat encroached upon. "

antipc wrote on Jun 25, 2009 1:16 PM:

" Pharper, did your report include how deer a mountain need to kill a week to survive?

The answer is 2 to 3. "

detritus wrote on Jun 25, 2009 1:18 PM:

" Antipc

"On June 5, 1990 the voters of California approved Proposition 117, the California Wildlife Protection Act. The Act accomplished two things. It prohibited the sport hunting of the California Mountain Lion, and it required that California spend no less than $30 million a year on wildlife habitat protection and related purposes." "

detritus wrote on Jun 25, 2009 1:26 PM:

" Reimburse ranchers for lost livestock? I had some veggies eaten by a gopher in my backyard, should I get reimbursed too? If you can't build a cat-proof enclosure, or manage your ranch or goat farm effectively, time to look for a new profession and stop looking for handouts.

Hunters aren't a threat to deer populations krusty. They now play the role of the top predator in our currently artificially human created ecosystem. Long gone are the wolves and grizzles that used to manage their prey here in CA quite well until "we" decided they didn't belong around. All living creatures on the planet play a role. "

TAXPAYER wrote on Jun 25, 2009 1:28 PM:

" Krusty. The point was if a lion was in Carneros it was not hunting deer. It was after another food source, livestock or pets.
As the lion populations have exploded in the last 10 years the deer will migrate down into populated areas to try and move away from the cats.
In the last 100 years we have not had an overpopulation of deer. Deer populations have drastically drop in the last 10 years due to the overpopulation of cats. "

antipc wrote on Jun 25, 2009 1:31 PM:

" The original bill was signed into law in '72 by Ronald Reagan. Since that time the enactments have been mostly extensions. "

detritus wrote on Jun 25, 2009 1:31 PM:

" antipc
Mountain lions may kill two to three lions a week, when with cubs. Otherwise they take one large ungulate every two weeks on average. They also spend considerable time playing the role of an opportunistic feeder eating small game like rabbits, squirrels, and the occasional house pet that is irresponsibly supervised by it's owner. "

5150 wrote on Jun 25, 2009 1:34 PM:

" I think it's great. I wonder if they like domestic cats? Send them over to Wimbledon St. "

antipc wrote on Jun 25, 2009 1:45 PM:

" I love condo dwelling wildlife experts. PBS & pro wildlife websites are inaccurate because they have an AGENDA.

2 to 3 weeks, rabbits & squirrels? LOL

You're killin' me over here. "

cab e-girl wrote on Jun 25, 2009 1:57 PM:

" Detritus: How can you compare the killing of gophers and the killing of mountain lions? Mountain lions are protected, gophers are not.

Incidentally, I don't think mountain lions are killing lions on a weekly basis, unless they are hunting in the zoo~! "

downtownsupporter wrote on Jun 25, 2009 2:09 PM:

" I love deer! They are the greatest. They should be protected from their natural predators so that I can kill them. Nice argument AntiPC. "

amazed wrote on Jun 25, 2009 2:15 PM:

" I used to work with a cougar, and she never said anything about deer.

Seriously, can't we let mountain lions and deer do what they're supposed to do, without us meddling? "

sophiesmom wrote on Jun 25, 2009 2:19 PM:

" I live deep in the mountains west of Oakville...there are lots of mountain lion ...I love my pets..so I keep them in the house at night and during the day I watch them in the yard.Roaming pets are a huge nuisance and worse predators of goats and sheep than lions..and as far as the deer..there are so many deer..and a lot of them dead along side the road from interaction with cars. If people don't want their goats and sheep killed they should put them in a protected place at night..I do and it is not a big problem...come on guys...lions account for very few injuries and death to people.If you don't want your kitty or dog to get eaten ...keep it in the house where it belongs instead of letting it roam around and bother your neighbors or be hit by a car or eaten by a bigger dog or cat... "

crooked6pence wrote on Jun 25, 2009 2:36 PM:

" napapop...

You would first have to understand the term ecosystem before the explanation could begin.

"ecosystem [(ee-koh-sis-tuhm, ek-oh-sis-tuhm)]

A collection of living things and the environment in which they live. For example, a prairie ecosystem includes coyotes, the rabbits on which they feed, and the grasses that feed the rabbits."

You probably also think that sharks serve no purpose either. It is all part of a balanced Earth... something we haven't seen in years. "

Raven wrote on Jun 25, 2009 2:46 PM:

" Sorry detritus, Ca voters didn't enact the ban on hunting cats, it was the uninformed state legislature..

antipc.....you might want to take a another look at Prop 117 and the attempt to repeal it with Prop 197 in 1996 (voters rejected it by 58 to 42) The law signed by Reagan in 1972 expired (after two extensions) in 1986 and we had unregulated hunting between 1986 and 1990.

while deer populations have declined, putting the onus on mountain lions is faulty.. habitat loss has a bigger impact...the current estimate by DFG is about 425k to 5450k for deer populations, down from a high of about 1.5 million in 1960s.

Matter of fact, the biggest decimation of the state's deer population was between the 1850s and about 1910, when new hunting laws were enacted in the state, populations rose, until they reached a point where the habitat couldn't support them, reaching a peak in the late 60s and then dropping precipitously until about 1975, according to the DFG, which places the major impact on the drop again, as habitat loss...since about 1980 deer populations have begun a slow climb to the current numbers. "

ganeece wrote on Jun 25, 2009 2:59 PM:

" sophiesmom, you can't be serious....
"If you don't want your kitty or dog to get eaten ...keep it in the house where it belongs"
My pets don't BELONG inside, they are animals and they BELONG outside. I shouldn't have to keep them or my lifestock in hiding to avoid mountain lions. Get rid of the problem, don't avoid it.... "

antipc wrote on Jun 25, 2009 3:18 PM:

" Raven, your research & my life experiences seem to be polar opposite.

I've seen the estimated cat numbers put out DFG, can't say I believe them. Seems there's been a major influx of idealism over science in some departments.

I happen to believe dogs should be protecting the house not sleeping it. "

krusty wrote on Jun 25, 2009 3:21 PM:

" Wildlife websites have an agenda, antipc? So do developers. Wildlife groups only want to save nature. Developers want to build on vacant land for profit. Who do you think has worse intentions? "

detritus wrote on Jun 25, 2009 3:22 PM:

" ganeece, maybe you putting you putting your animals outside is the problem. "

detritus wrote on Jun 25, 2009 3:25 PM:

" "You're killin' me over here. "

There are actual real life wildlife biologists that live among you. "

antipc wrote on Jun 25, 2009 3:26 PM:

" detritus, thanks for reminding me about the wolves, I don't much care for them either. The wolf re-itroduction debacle in ID, what a joke thats turning out to be. "

detritus wrote on Jun 25, 2009 3:29 PM:

" "I've seen the estimated cat numbers put out DFG, can't say I believe them."

Can you share your source and these numbers with us? Or were you shown these "numbers" in strict confidence? "

antipc wrote on Jun 25, 2009 3:32 PM:

" At least developers have a plan & use their own money. Why don't wildlife groups use their money to actually do something besides lobby politicians for our money while they're suing everything in site. "

detritus wrote on Jun 25, 2009 3:34 PM:

" We wouldn't ever have to reintroduce anything if it weren't for so many of the self-righteous self-centered ignorant people who think they own the planet.

I got news for you, we "humans" are only guests here. (for the moment) "

native74 wrote on Jun 25, 2009 3:40 PM:

" detritus,

I don't have any numbers on the lions either, but when a bow hunter (who had been legally hiding in one of our trees) comes back to the house shaking cause he just saw an unmarked black helicopter drop three lions behind your private property, it could make you wonder about the real numbers.

Note: The above took place in Berryessa in the mid-90's shortly after Proposition 117 passed. Prop 117 was supposed to help in land purchases of public parks for refuge of lions not illegal dumping on livestock ranches!! "

ganeece wrote on Jun 25, 2009 3:48 PM:

" detritus:

wow, I never thought of it that way.... what was I thinging letting my animals outside?

Everyone from now on keep all your horses, sheep, steer, goats, dogs and cats locked-up! God forbit we deal with the actual problem and have to kill some of these "beautiful" creatures. That's right all you sheep and cattle farmers you better build some BIG barns. Give me a break! "

sophiesmom wrote on Jun 25, 2009 3:48 PM:

" so ganeece..you think you should leave your pets and livestock outside and get rid of the mountain lions? and what about the coyotes and bobcats? should everything be destroyed so you can leave your animals out unprotected? I don't know that I would enjoy country living if all those things were gone..It is appropriate to put dogs, cats and small livestock in a safe place at night..I donot know how that could be argued...and then if the deer get in your garden would they need to be shot ?etc. etc. it is a better plan to take care of your own and let the planet go along as naturally as it can "

TAXPAYER wrote on Jun 25, 2009 4:18 PM:

" Let DFG do their job and issue hunting permits to keep the lion population in check. "

cheezcakemaker wrote on Jun 25, 2009 4:50 PM:

" I used to be great cougar bait at the Carneros Inn. Then a cougar finally took me out of circulation. *Sigh* "

krusty wrote on Jun 25, 2009 5:05 PM:

" I would never believe what a man hiding in a tree (legally or illegally) with a bow and arrow tells me, native74.

Do you understand how amusing that sounds? That means someone was sitting in a helicopter with three mountain lions they brought over from another area and happened to think your property was the perfect place for them. "

Raven wrote on Jun 25, 2009 5:18 PM:

" native74...I think your bow hunter was shaking from something else....possibly something he or she ingested...

If you don't like the numbers I presented antipc..by all means, present your own along with the sources so we can all enjoy them. (btw..never said anything about my life experiences)...but to dismiss something out of hand because you don't like the source.....tsk tsk sk "

antipc wrote on Jun 25, 2009 5:33 PM:

" Wrong krusty, So Cal was having such a problem with cats, that DFG was transplanting them in Napa/Solano county. Never told any property owners & tried to keep it very hush hush. I found out through a DFG employee. "

antipc wrote on Jun 25, 2009 5:40 PM:

" sophiesmom, We can legally kill coyotes & other predators as a means of controlling them. Cats are protected & DFG must be contacted unless you catch a cat in the act. Ask a Game Warden.

BTW, I feel sorry for pets that are subject to house arrest, seems pretty cruel to me. "

antipc wrote on Jun 25, 2009 5:42 PM:

" Detritus, YOU may be a guest but I'm a participant. "

antipc wrote on Jun 25, 2009 5:45 PM:

" I don't play the my source trumps your source game, detritus. "

native74 wrote on Jun 25, 2009 5:58 PM:

" I know it sounds amusing Krusty, but bow hunters have to actually 'hunt' to catch anything so hiding in a tree was appropriate. He was actually terrified that if he moved HE might be shot for catching someone 'dumping' on our property. Times are strange.

We were worried to that the same people (suspected DFG) were wanting to propose eminent domain so they could set-up a nature park (Prop 117). They purchased the Frye Ranch instead and look what happened there. The great Rumsey Fire...from lack of maintenance. I could go on. I know the DFG people I work with are good people who try and do the right thing with what they have, but it's always the bureaucrats that mess things up. "

vocal-de-local wrote on Jun 25, 2009 6:00 PM:

" Come on people! There's right and wrong on both sides here.

All animal numbers (including humans) should be kept in check. The environmentalists should most definitely protest the mother of all environmental problems - human population. If our numbers weren't so large, we wouldn't continuously encroach on lands where wildlife once roamed freely. There wouldn't be such a big market for farm animals either.

On the other hand, our reality is what it is at the moment. And no, we should not destroy mountain lions because the deer eat out of a garden, or because our pets are their dessert.

It's important to study the mountain lion population and make certain that it is not artificially enlarged due to our intervention, though. For example, if human intervention is doing something to increase the deer population (clearing forests creates grasslands which might increase deer populations), then the mountain lion population will increase accordingly. I'm a big believe in keeping animal populations in check, as humanely as possible. I'd rather not destroy the forest in the first place. if that's the cause of an increased deer population, assuming there is one. "

native74 wrote on Jun 25, 2009 6:30 PM:

" Thanks antipc, I forgot to mention that the 'relocation helicopter' occurred within days of the female jogger cougar attack in LA. "

glenroy wrote on Jun 25, 2009 6:40 PM:

" Vocal -de-….your son is only lucky biker….my little brother shot at a cougar 9 times, obviously reloaded his revolver, at dusk while it followed and charged him several times over a half mile….. I had the same experience and had to charge the cat because I couldn’t hit it and ran out of ammo trying and it still kept coming back on my trail…. These cats are not afraid of humans.

My son in-law had one come into his lap turkey hunting this year a massive female….

….riding and walking the trails in the county is like chumming with your life….. "

antipc wrote on Jun 25, 2009 6:49 PM:

" raven, native74 is 100% correct. But you won't find that info on the DFG website. I know for a fact.

BTW, your numbers are regurgitated numbers from the "I want to keep my job", state employees that don't understand their paycheck comes directly from sportsmen who actually buy the licences & tags. "

Raven wrote on Jun 25, 2009 9:48 PM:

" anti, you don't like the numbers then provide your own....as for the black helicopter story, similar stories have been floating around for years and no one has yet offered any evidence other than one version or another of the 'I know a guy'... "

Hear Ye wrote on Jun 26, 2009 12:02 AM:

" Are there actually people arguing that we have a mountain lion population problem?

Where is the evidence to support that? "

OU now wrote on Jun 26, 2009 7:11 AM:

" Deer population is down for many reasons, wild hogs eat fawns, field workers shoot or snare deer(poach) to eat. dog packs running deer down, Mt. lions, cars and humans. I believe lion attacks on humans are under reported. Kids that just vanish can be lion victims, like a 5 year old that was missing from his back yard in butte county in "91". The kids tracks ended where lion tracks crossed, but was not reported as a lion attack. Lions are a problem, and yes they have been in carnaros for a long time. Sheep kills in the old sonoma rd. area about 1968, Old man Henry at the end of henry rd. told me he could hear them scream on the hill early spring. Big cats are death, and if the DFG could issue 200 permits a year for $2k each, they would learn to stay out of populated areas. 200 cats would not be killed, money would be comming into the state insted of being wasted on pred. permits. But people tend to only think with their hearts and not with their head when it comes to big cats. We do need to ballance our intrusion into nature, Not destroy it. "

detritus wrote on Jun 26, 2009 8:09 AM:

" There isn't a lion "problem" at all. The lion population is very healthy. Their food source is healthy. No problem.

The only problem with this discussion simple minded people who would rather kill lions then expend any of their own resources mitigating for their own common sense errors. Proper planning and research can minimize interactions with lions. Sure some problematic cats need to be killed, but some of these people commenting would be happy to see every last one of them dead to suit their own needs. That is the real problem. That and our education system lacks the curriculum to teach our future leaders about the importance of living in harmony with the natural world.

It's clear to me that the last generation of thinking is still alive and kicking. Give it 30 years for some of these anti everything old-timers to die off and there will be a change in the way we as inhabitants of the earth view our relationship with nature. It's either we do come around or we perish by our own hands. I just hope it's not already too late. "

tangent wrote on Jun 26, 2009 9:23 AM:

" It's amusing that this argument is still going on in our state and as evidenced here, the arguments are still largely unsubstantiated hysteria. Cougars are not a problem or a substantive threat to humans. Period. Anecdotes as presented here about contact with "super" cougars that can't be felled with 9 shots or cats that are dropped out of black helicopters are amusing paranoia. Its well-known that the DFG relocates cats. And? What impact has that had on the number of attacks on humans or livestock?

The number of people who have died or been mauled by cougars is statistically insignificant. Attacks are exceedingly rare, but if you take the claims posted here at face value, you'd think that every other hiker in our local hills gets chased and cornered by cougars on every excursion. The vast majority of people that hike, backpack, and hunt in this county will never see a cougar. You are not "...chumming with your life..." by hiking or riding in our county. You are more likely to die in your car on the way to your destination. Or be hit by lightning. Or be stung to death by bees.

There is absolutely zero evidence that hunting cougars changes their individual or collective behavior, morphing them into a human-fearing species or population. Shooting a cougar in the Carneros doesn't suddenly result in Cougars on Mt. Veeder being afraid of people. Its a ridiculous argument on its face and isn't supported by facts or statistics.

Allowing trophy hunting of cougars will not change anything, save allowing local hunters to indulge in macho fantasies of bringing down a big cat. "

O/U now wrote on Jun 26, 2009 9:59 AM:

" detritus.... Why Kill problem cats for free? Less cats overall will die if tags are sold. Its a proven fact that a animal hunted learns to avoid humans. the boldest will be quickly taken and the rest will "wise up" to hunting. the same amount of tags could be sold year after year, but less and less cats will be killed. the population will be stable and may even expand. The big plus will be the state gets more funds to help with wildlife if they can keep the money out of the gen. fund. We need the big cats,but we need to be smart about it. "

suze wrote on Jun 26, 2009 1:02 PM:

" Of course there are mountain lions around, they are native here. These cats are secretive and have very large hunting territories. If there was a 'problem' it would be evident, but it is not. You cannot keep sheep or goats in the hills. They almost certainly will be taken by a lion if there are not extraordinary precautions.
In times gone by when there were more predators around including wolves and bears, people expected to have to guard their livestock somehow if they didn't want to lose it.
Some dog breeds are very effective guards against lion and wolf and surprisingly, so are burros and mules. They make excellent guards for sheep and goats and the BLM has plenty that need homes.
Cats and weak lambs do get taken by coyotes, great horned owls and occasionally, golden eagle. Are we going to shoot all of those?
I spend plenty of time in the back woods mostly on horseback, and I do not see the deer populations that I used to. I think that there is a lot of game poaching going on of both sexes in and out of season.
I don't keep kitties, I don't like their bird slaughtering habits, but my friends do, and they love them and keep them inside safe. Small dogs are also vulnerable and need protection - not a lion cull. The time to worry will be when there is no natural game left for the lions, then they get very dangerous, but I don't think we are there yet. "

WorksInNapa wrote on Jun 27, 2009 7:25 AM:

" I often take 8 to 12 hour long hikes alone in the hills and mountains around Napa county and elsewhere both at day and night both on and off trails. I always have a camera and hope to get a shot of a mountain lion some day. So far all I've seen is the hind quarters of a lion as it ran off.

I don't fear the lions but I do respect them. If I have a fear at all it would be with the unleashed dogs that run at me in the city parks. One is ten times more likely to be killed by a family dog than by a mountain lion.

It's soooo much more peaceful in the hills. "

glenroy wrote on Jun 27, 2009 8:47 AM:

" LOL….of course all the wannabe cougar lovers don’t live with mountains in their back yards, say in Coombsville area within sight of Silverado Middle School…..

As for the nature walkers who aren’t threatened or never see cougars….let you in on a few secrets…the first one is 99% of the time the cougar is above you, while 99% of the time you’re walking looking down, so unless you’re searching the trees or rocks looking up as your walking you‘ll likely never see one. Secondly….if you’re not seeing deer on your walks, not occasional but numerous….if there are cougars in the area you’ll eventually know what the rest of us are dealing with…

Cougars have decimated the deer herds in this state..…. "

Raven wrote on Jun 27, 2009 11:12 AM:

" and again glenroy...you and others trot out that statement without any facts or sources to back them up...so tell us, give us the numbers to back up your claims.....and to listen to the complaints from people about deer decimating their gardens the cougars must not be very efficient at it... "

WorksInNapa wrote on Jun 27, 2009 2:14 PM:

" Glenroy - we hikers may not see too many mountain lions but we can be sure that the mountain lions see us. I, for one, am happy that most of the time we are not viewed as a food source.

But I'd have to disagree with your take on the numbers of deer. I see herds of deer all the time on my hikes. Perhaps it's just a local population thing in your neck of the woods that make you think that deer populations are dropping? According to the California Fish and Game site the deer are doing just fine.

I am curious about one thing - why do people feel the need to report to the police any lion sightings? I might do so if I see one roaming the inner city streets - but in the country side? Give me a break. The police have better things to do. "

tangent wrote on Jun 27, 2009 4:31 PM:

" glenroy:

I've lived in the country for most of my years in this county and have seen a mountain lion at my home, on my front porch, found hidden kills in the woods, and have heard them screaming from the woods. I know what I speak of from first-hand experience living in remote areas with active cougar populations. But so what? Most folk who live in the country for any length of time in this county will have similar stories.

And if, as you suggest, that cougars are waiting around every corner or on every rocky outcropping above a hiking trail and attacks are non-existent, then you've actually disproved your own point about the dangers being in the woods in Napa County. I reiterate: cougars pose almost no risk to humans. If you've got data or evidence that disproves this point, please provide it.

There has been exactly one attack on a human in the Bay Area, including Napa County, in 100 years. And that was in 1911. There are app. 6 reported attacks in total in the US and Canda combined every year. In CA the vast majority of encounters are in Southern California at the edge of urban / rural interface at the San Gabriel Mountains, in OC and further south in eastern San Diego county.

So why the hysteria? There is nothing remotely dangerous about hiking in cougar country that is attributable to the big cats themselves. "

Ou now wrote on Jun 28, 2009 10:11 AM:

" I don't read a lot of books on lions, I really don't need to. Unlike most of you I am not a hobby farmer with 2 cows, 5 horses and a goat on 10 acres, like some of you. I don't live 2 miles out of town, and stray out into parks for a walk. I have way over 10 times that much land, and live way over 10 times that far from an all night store or gas station. I lose calves every year to cats,that go un-reported. Its a loss I can take. I have seen a lion kill a young fork horn buck with my own eyes. I have 2 ridgeback dogs(african lion dogs). 2 jenny mules, and a wild mustang(she lets me know when a lion is around) . But a still lose stock. When my kids were young, cats were my biggest fear for them. Now that they are grown, I worry about my grand kids. Cats are only getting bolder. Without humans stepping up to take the place of the wolf or bear to help control the lion population, and to instill fear of humans, lions will expand and expend their envioroment. I do not wish to kill all lions or even most. Just thin them out some. My grandkids need to be able to roam free without too much fear. You in town keep yours indoors for fear of man. I don't want to do that to mine for fear of cats. "

Paddy wrote on Jun 28, 2009 11:09 AM:

" If you all are so afraid of big cats (sharks too probably) then start packing a weapon. That way you can not only defend yourself against an attacking cat but also put down vicious dogs in Alston Park. "

seriously wrote on Jun 28, 2009 4:45 PM:

" People should take note when hiking Westwood Hills especially at night. I extremely close to the park and have not only seen one mountain lion, I have heard it as it stumbled down the hill once (no joke! though it was scary at the time), and have seen the deer carcasses less than 50 yards from our house. The last time I saw it was July of last year so the time is right to see it again, I suppose. But seriously, be guarded and about going up there in the middle of the night. "

tangent wrote on Jun 28, 2009 6:27 PM:

" @Ou now:

I can imagine that living far out of town and raising livestock, that cougars have an actual, quantifiable impact on your life. And I understand your concern for your grand kids. But the idea that allowing sport hunting of cougars will instill fear of humans simply isn't supported by the facts. British Columbia in Canada is a great example: sport hunting is now and has always been legal. However, even with that, the majority of cougar attacks in North America occur in this province. Hunting has no appreciable effect on diminishing the number of attacks on humans. If anything, the inverse is true.

I owned a Ridgeback too. Wonderful dogs.

Question for you: are you worried about cougars because of you livestock or you kids / grand kids? "

vocal-de-local wrote on Jun 29, 2009 2:21 AM:

" When my kids were younger, I was naive about wildlife and I actually allowed them some freedom in hiking the nearby woods. But then, a mountain lion in the area had to be destroyed because it was eating pets. I became more vigilant. I've actually seen mountain lions from my house. There was a deer carcass eating down to nearly the bones at the bottom of my property once. To make matters even more morbid, my son decided to keep the deer skull in his bedroom (future scientist?).

Once while we were hiking, we found a dog just off the trial which was partially eaten. It was a gruesome sight and I knew exactly which type of animal killed it. In fact it was such a fresh kill that I was afraid to hang around very long. NO DOUBT, at least where I live, we have mountain lions.

I accept this is part of the risk of living here. I moved into their territory. They only came into mine out of necessity. They were here first.

Just because some of us are telling you the truth about the very real existence of Mountain Lions, it doesn't mean we want them exterminated. Animal populations hopefully keep themselves in check (humans are the exceptions). If the balance is thrown off, then yes, we owe it to wildlife to restore it, regardless of the direction, because we are typically the root cause of the imbalance.

It's probably not a very good idea to let younger children wander in the forest without supervision, though. I would use caution, even as an adult, hiking alone without some form of weapon, at least where I live! "

O/U now wrote on Jun 29, 2009 6:10 AM:

" Back @ you tangent . . . Saying that hunting cougars does not help because B.C. still has attack's, is like saying seat belts don't help because 10 people died in Oklahoma's crash last friday. I do not want to shoot a cougar, but if a "sport hunter" wants to pay the state 2 or 3k to kill one to boost his ego, thats better than the DFG PAYING a state hunter to do it. And yes, it's only about my kid's/ grand kid's life. I love the fact that I do have the cats on my land, I just feel we should have some control. "

native74 wrote on Jun 29, 2009 3:10 PM:

" Not that it matters after all the posts, but when I attended Los Carneros Elementary school, the mascot was the Cougar. I was just reminded of this after reading the NVR's school mascot article... "

antipc wrote on Jun 29, 2009 7:46 PM:

" While sportsmen groups spend time & money enhancing habitat for deer & other big game species in our backyards, maybe you predator lovers should start doing the same thing in your backyards. "

downtownsupporter wrote on Jun 30, 2009 8:17 AM:

" Antipc: If you would quit "enhancing" your backyard habitat for deer maybe then you would not have to worry about mountain lions in your back yard. By planting crops to sustain deer aren't you selecting for week genetics. ie. deer that can't forage for wild food that would be there if man were not around to grow it for them. I was always told not to feed wild animals. "

antipc wrote on Jun 30, 2009 9:03 AM:

" downtown, your Jun 30, 2009 8:17 AM post only goes to prove exactly what you don't know, but think you do. "

Raven wrote on Jun 30, 2009 9:05 AM:

" and antipc...when did predators get moved out of the habitat? If you don't have predators you have an out of balance habitat. "

5th generation napan wrote on Jun 30, 2009 10:10 AM:

" I'm always amazed at how ignorant our educated people are about ecosystems, as if we dont live in it.

Just more of the I, me, myself and forget the rest of the world, attitude.

So sad. "

downtownsupporter wrote on Jun 30, 2009 11:31 AM:

" Antipc: In response to your personal attack " downtown, your Jun 30, 2009 8:17 AM post only goes to prove exactly what you don't know, but think you do. "

Take a look at what you have written . I believe that you are the one who thinks he knows all. I never claimed to be right about this issue. If you look at my last post again you will see that I was asking a question. Your being a bleeding heart for deer is comical since all you want to kill them for sport. "

antipc wrote on Jun 30, 2009 1:12 PM:

" Yeah right Raven, that's why the elk, moose, deer, & antelope populations were starving before the '96 wolf introduction. "

antipc wrote on Jun 30, 2009 1:32 PM:

" Downtown, sportsmen go to great length & expense through associations to conserve wildlife & habitat. Animal rights groups spend money suing the government & whoever else they set their sights on resulting in little if any impact. You may feel good about your ideology but in reality those methods do more harm than good because those actions are based on emotion rather than actual science. "

Raven wrote on Jun 30, 2009 2:28 PM:

" they were starving from over population antipc....no one has said hunters ....lets not use that euphemism sportsmen....haven't contributed to habitat restoration....and again...why do you act as if predators have no place in the habitat.....unless they are the two-legged kind. "

TAXPAYER wrote on Jun 30, 2009 4:23 PM:

" Downtownsupporter
I don't think my cows or the deer will like comment
about planted crops. "

antipc wrote on Jun 30, 2009 5:56 PM:

" Sorry raven, another falsehood. Natural winter kill ratios in the Yellowstone basin have been offset by the winter feeding programs in Teton National Park.

And raven, who started & pays for those programs?

I agree with 5th gen. "

Raven wrote on Jun 30, 2009 10:36 PM:

" antipc.the elk, moose, deer, & antelope populations were starving before the '96 wolf introduction....

Were they starving or weren't they..you are making the assertion, which I agree with....overpopulation resulted in overgrazing which results in die offs with out predators... so why do you say they were starving? "

Paddy wrote on Jul 1, 2009 12:06 PM:

" CA, and the West in general, was never a place for the weak of spirit and I hope it doesn't become so. If you want to live here, learn to deal with lions, coyotes, fox, puma, rattlers, etc. Love 'em or leave 'em, just don't shoot 'em.

I'd like to see the state reintroduce Grizzly Bears. " "

glenroy wrote on Jul 1, 2009 12:37 PM:

" There are entire areas in Idaho where wolfs have virtually eliminated elk and deer herds….much like mountain lions have done in our state.

Of course the libs wouldn’t know about that because they get there information from CNN….the Cartoon News Network. "

Raven wrote on Jul 1, 2009 12:55 PM:

" It is a rare thing, Paddy but I agree with you...we are moving into their habitat, not the other way around. And yes...bring back the grizzly bear.

glenroy...why be bothered by the facts.....the herds haven't been destroyed by wolves...but rather by overgrazing their habitat....and the introduction of the wolves has gone a long way to restoring the balance needed. "

TAXPAYER wrote on Jul 1, 2009 1:12 PM:

" Raven you are in Cartoon land.
On our family ranch in Napa County we raise cattle and deer in which both feed our families( for the last 85+ years) . Plenty of feed , no incroching delelopment. The only thing that has destroyed the deer numbers, have been lions.
Have a nice day. "

downtownsupporter wrote on Jul 1, 2009 2:09 PM:

" Glenroy: What did the elk and deer do before the "wolfs" were wiped out by hunters. They coexisted. Blaming the "virtual" elimination of elk and deer herds in entire areas of Idaho on the reintroduction with wolves might be jumping to conclusions. Perhaps the elk/deer that were born in the time when there were no wolves in the area have subsequently given birth to deer/elk that are genetically weaker than previous generations that had to cope with wolves. Without an inherited fear of predators those deer/elk would be easy pickins for wolves. Those that live will pass on their survival traits to offspring that will be better prepared to deal with wolves.
If libs get news from cnn, then what conservative news station do you get your vague tidbits of info from. Is there a mass media outlet or news agency that is non partisan? I am personally tired of all politicians Libs or Cons, they are all liars and crooks that try and push their personal agenda, instead of representing their constituents.
I just don't see why this potential sighting is a big problem. How many people have been attacked since the big cat was supposedly seen in Carneros? 0. Was there any sign of tracks? The Sherrifs could not even confirm what time the creature was spotted. It was probably a viscious pit bull. Antipc: lets get an open season for them and maybe their owners. "

TAXPAYER wrote on Jul 1, 2009 2:52 PM:

" downtown,
The wolves and lion population will expand untill they deplete their food source, Then they will starve.
Mankind uses deer and elk as a food source, we have for thousands of years.
The main problem you need to realize is that when lions loose their food source and live in a developed area, they will look for an alternative food supply before they starve. "

antipc wrote on Jul 1, 2009 7:38 PM:

" raven, my Jun 30, 2009 1:12 PM: was sarcasm.

The Lewis & Clark expedition nearly starved to death in Idaho because of lack of game. We wisely eradicated the Brown Wolf & lived happily for nearly a century until the do-gooders decided to introduce the much larger Gray Wolf from Canada. History shows our forefathers were right & the predator lovers are wrong. "

WorksInNapa wrote on Jul 1, 2009 8:57 PM:

" Do Grizzly's and Big Cats get along?

Do a search on Pope Valley's history and you'll read the same stories as are being told here except it was cattle, horses, sheep & hogs which the Grizzly Bear were killing 150 years ago.

As far as I know the Mountain Lion hasn't attacked a human in Napa County in a long, long time - if ever. I treat the lions like I do rattlesnakes - I keep a lookout for them but they're not a big enough concern to stop me from going outdoors. Like I said before, loose dogs in city parks are more of a scare. "

Raven wrote on Jul 1, 2009 10:18 PM:

" Taxpayer, you have any numbers to back that claim up? Because DFG disagrees with you.

We wisely eradicated the Brown Wolf ...

and we saw ecosystems get out of balance and stay out for decades after antipc...predators are an essential part of the habitat whether you like them or not anti. "

detritus wrote on Jul 2, 2009 7:56 AM:

" As it was said earlier, the primary reason for decreased wildlife populations is degradation and loss of habitat. That fact can not be argued. Humans are at fault, not predators. That being said, it is the cumulative effects of all of mankind's meddeling that contribute to declines of wildlife populations. *Of course there is another side to the teeter-todder. Animals that thrive in disturbance are enjoying a boost in numbers. Raccoons, possums, skunks, rats, ground squirrels, coyotes, crows, all seem to be enjoying the urban fringe.

And while we are at it, it should be mentioned there is now another force at play. Warming climates have already shifted plant regimes in California. Vegetation associated with lower elevations is moving "up" to seek preferred temperatures. The animals that use them are following, displacing and altering the previous ecosystem. Woodlands are converting to grasslands. Large structure open habitats "big trees" are being replaced by dense low lying vegetation types. Non-native vegetation (noxious weeds), aggressive and uncontrolled, are taking advantage of the situation and filling in the gaps. Watering holes and streams are drying up earlier in the year. We have already seen considerable ranges of sub-alpine and alpine habitats in the deer range disappear in the Sierras. The emerging and flowering times for vegetation are changing, throwing off instinctual feeding behaviors and reproductive cycles. This is not hocus-pocus. It has been studied and re-studied for over a decade. I encourage any skeptics those interested to attend the Wildlife Society Annual Conference which will be held in Monterrey Sept. 20 - 24th. This is the largest gathering of wildlife experts and resource professionals in the world. "

TAXPAYER wrote on Jul 2, 2009 1:56 PM:

" Raven,
My grandfather was a state trapper for Napa County. Our family has ranched in
Napa County for over five generations.
Any more questions? "

Raven wrote on Jul 2, 2009 3:38 PM:

" yeah...what are your numbers to back up your assertion.....as i said nDFG disagrees with you. "

TAXPAYER wrote on Jul 2, 2009 5:27 PM:

" Raven,
From SFGATE.com Feb. 18, 2004
Terry Mansfield a DFG wildlife export testified in the senate wildlife committee that the lion population would need to be reduced by 25 to 50 percent to reduce competition for food among lions.
That was in 2004.

Have a nice day. "

detritus wrote on Jul 2, 2009 5:34 PM:

" On our family ranch in Napa County we raise cattle and deer in which both feed our families( for the last 85+ years) . Plenty of feed , no incroching delelopment. The only thing that has destroyed the deer numbers, have been lions.
Have a nice day. "

Sometimes people fail to see the big picture. This I can understand especially if your roots haven't left the same patch of ground for nearly 100 years. Sorry Tax, there has been encroaching development and habitat conversion happening all around you. Just locally we have oak woodlands, upland grasslands, and coniferous forests converting to agriculture, golf courses, and luxury homes. Its happening throughout the State and California continues to grow in human numbers at an astounding rate. All these people need places to live, food to eat, and we expend huge amounts of energy and resources. What usually looses is the environment.

When it comes to Black-tailed deer in California many people don't realize that the very large herds seasonally migrate great distances. These herds act as a source of fresh recruits that eventually emigrate into our backyards. Don't think that a clear-cut in Lake County, a subdivision in American Canyon, and a vineyard outside Angwin wont have an influence on the numbers deer you see in your own backyard.

Wildlife is able to adapt to changes in their habitats evolutionarily, but not at the rate in which we mandate they do. The "well if it can't survive then it don't belong on the planet" mentality that so many like Anti share is severely flawed. "

detritus wrote on Jul 2, 2009 5:38 PM:

" From SFGATE.com Feb. 18, 2004
Terry Mansfield a DFG wildlife export testified in the senate wildlife committee that the lion population would need to be reduced by 25 to 50 percent to reduce competition for food among lions.
That was in 2004.

Have a nice day.

That may be so, but wildlife populations change overnight. That statement and the data it was based on is more than 5 years old. Hardly something to hang your hat or reputation on Tax. "

antipc wrote on Jul 2, 2009 7:36 PM:

" Really detritus, please do tell where & when the Napa migrations begin & end.

Does that encroachment thing explain why deer invade Silverado C.C?

I think you could use a little time in the field. It has a way of changing one's perception of reality. "

TAXPAYER wrote on Jul 2, 2009 8:01 PM:

" Detritus,
Your joking right?
Black tail deer do not seasonally migrate.
Lion populations will only go up untill they are controlled by mankind. or they run out of food and starve.
The east side of Lake Berrryessa has never seen development or a shortage of deer food source, but our deer herd has
drastically dropped over the last few years. Our lion sightings and fresh kills are up 10 fold. In years past we would see 50 to 60 deer ever day, most all in the back hills. Now your lucky to see maybe a half dozen deer and these are out in the open and down by the lake. There is no guessing where they went.
My life experience is something I can hang my hat and reputation on. "

Raven wrote on Jul 2, 2009 11:02 PM:

" glad for you but all you have for the deer population is your opinion, no numbers...and you don't even have any solid numbers for the lion population other than 5 year old story and without the numbers all you have is opinion.

and in the drought we have been under all foraging populations have been under pressure and yes, deer will migrate when they find better and more reliable food sources.

and again, the latest, 2008, the DFG has in the deer population, about 425 to 450k, has been impacted more by habitat encroachment than any other factor.

and here is the latest the DFG has on mountain lion population...(at its web site)

Mountain lion studies over the last 30 years have estimated population densities for different habitat types around the state. These density estimates varied from zero to 10 lions per 100 square miles, and were simply expanded to the total amount of each habitat type available. This method provides a crude estimate of between 4,000 and 6,000 mountain lions statewide.

Without an ongoing statewide mountain lion study, it is impossible to know what is happening on a statewide basis with populations. However, there are indications that mountain lion activity, such as depredation, attacks on people, and predation on prey populations, peaked in 1996, then decreased somewhat, and have remained stable for the past several years. "

sailorgirl wrote on Jul 6, 2009 4:58 PM:

" east side of Berryessa? where they have that deer hunting ranch? Where my old bosses used to get all there deer for the anual BBQ, and they where so young and tender. Maybe thats were all of your deer have gone. "

antipc wrote on Jul 6, 2009 7:52 PM:

" Raven, in Napa county as well as other counties the densities are much higher.

Also, invasive non-native fauna are a much larger problem than habitat interference. "

Raven wrote on Jul 6, 2009 11:47 PM:

" antipc, what are those densities? You have figures that the DFG doesn't?

re the decline in deer...According to the hunting regs for 2009....., the overall deer population in the A Zone (which includes Napa) is considered stable.

and non-native invasive fauna and flora are all part of habitat interference. "

detritus wrote on Jul 7, 2009 8:18 AM:

" and non-native invasive fauna and flora are all part of habitat interference.

Thats right Raven. Come to think of it, isn't ranching to blame for one of the worst epidemics in California's environmental history, the seeding and spreading of Yellow Star Thistle. If I'm not mistaken, the yellow star thistle has taken over almost 20% of California's open space. That sure is a lot of habitat that has been converted from food source to.... wasteland. I wonder if that has had a detrimental effect on deer populations like it has on all other native plants and animals. These ranchers seem to want to give it to wildlife from both ends! "

antipc wrote on Jul 7, 2009 6:29 PM:

" Detritus your info is all wrong. Star thistle in 20% of CA open space? ROFLMAO...... Cheatgrass would have a better choice, but still wrong.

Raven I was talking about the cat population. "

antipc wrote on Jul 7, 2009 7:27 PM:

" sailor, hunters will manage the deer herds, cats have no such conscience.

raven wrong again, try looking at the stats from when cat hunting was legal to present.

Biologists are now becoming concerned with black bear numbers & fawn mortality rates.

Uninformed ideology is the epitome of ignorance. "

Raven wrote on Jul 8, 2009 12:09 AM:

" again antipc, since you disagree with the state's figure, provide your own.and the source for them so we can all see them. There has been ample opportunity for you to back up the assertion, but where are the figures? Until there are numbers, all you have is opinion. You cannot make a rational policy with facts. "

Raven wrote on Jul 8, 2009 12:15 PM:

" actually that should read 'without the facts'....but maybe the first is truer more often than we like. "

antipc wrote on Jul 8, 2009 7:38 PM:

" Raven, life does not revolve around "wiki".

Life experiences, personal knowledge, & stories passed down through generations carry far more weight than what you will find keyboarding. "

suze wrote on Jul 8, 2009 8:54 PM:

" It sounds as though antipc feels all deer should be nurtured and protected for him and his buddies to just shoot! Just how much deer meat and how many 'trophies' does a guy need?
On the subject of star thistle, I can't quote any science, but try walking or riding accross any open space wildland in summer - 20% seems a conservative estimate. Deer do not 'migrate' like caribou, but they have their migratory seasonal trails to various food scources and water. Our county contains hundreds of miles of deer fencing that has severely disrupted centuries old trails, and I am sure this has made them far more vulnerable to attacks from both mountain lions and hunters of all kinds, legal and otherwise. "

Raven wrote on Jul 8, 2009 11:21 PM:

" Who is using wiki antipc. My figures are the same ones the DFG uses to establish policy so again, if you have some new and verifiable figures that differ from the DFG's numbers lets see them. (btw re life experiences, was a hunter for almost 30 years, until recently, when I couldn't really see the point any more. I can get the same thrill of the hunt by stalking with a camera.) "

antipc wrote on Jul 9, 2009 6:50 PM:

" suze, in A zone I'm allowed to pay for two deer a year. Cats take that many in a week for free.

BTW deer are browsers not grazers & 20% is way out of line county wide as well as state wide.

Doubt you hunted deer raven, otherwise you wouldn't make such statements. "

Raven wrote on Jul 12, 2009 10:40 AM:

" Deer are ruminants, just like other grazers, such as cattle, antipc....and they do move from area to area as the food supply changes. and the 20 percent

Re the star thistle, Napa county is listed as one of the counties having high infestations of start thistles....which has hit more that 14 million acres as of 2002....so 20 percent seems a reasonable estimate.

And my 40 years of hunting deer, bear and numerous other critters gives me the background to make such a statement. "

Join the conversation

*Member ID:
*Password:
Remember login? (requires cookies)
	Forgot Your Password?

Create an account

Comment Guidelines

The goal of the story comments section at NapaValleyRegister.com is to have an open, thought-provoking, civil community forum for all issues.

What gets your comment posted?

• Staying on topic

• Keeping your comment to 300 words or less

• Avoiding name-calling

• Addressing your comments to the message rather than the messenger

What gets your comment deleted?

• Personal attacks

• Derogatory remarks

• Name-calling of any sort

• Going off-topic

• Hate speech

• Racially-insensitive comments

• Implying guilt of a subject in a crime story before there is a court verdict

• Posting e-mail addresses

• Posting comments of a commercial nature

• POSTING WITH ALL CAPITAL LETTERS

• Linking multiple comments together with "to be continued..." to get around the 300 word limit.

The fine print

- Comments are either approved or denied. We do not edit comments.

- You are welcome to modify and resubmit a denied comment.

- Comments may take several hours to be posted.

- Comments posted are those of the writer, and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of NapaValleyRegister.com, its employees or its parent company.

- Do you have information on a story? Please go to our virtual newsroom to send us a news tip.

- If you feel a posted comment has violated our guidelines, please contact online@napanews.com or add a comment indicating you have an issue and our moderators will review the comment in question.

Search: