Proud to be gay: Residents rally in Napa

About 100 people walked Saturday in downtown Napa for Napa Valley Pride 2009, an event in support of gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered people. Kerana Todorov/Register photo | Buy photos

Sunday, June 21, 2009

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By KERANA TODOROV, Register Staff Writer

About 100 people walked Saturday in downtown Napa for Napa Valley Pride 2009, an event in support of gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered people. The group left Veteran’s Memorial Park on Main Street, crossed the Napa River on First Street Bridge, followed Soscol Avenue before returning to the park by crossing the river on the Third Street Bridge.

Tony Conlin, 38, of Napa, not pictured, walked with his dog, Gordon. “I want to come to support our small gay community,” he said during the Sidewalk Pride Walk. “I just hope that the people in town realize there is a gay community here.” Napa Valley Pride 2009 events continue through today. For information, visit www.napavalleypride.com.

82 comment(s)

rpcv wrote on Jun 21, 2009 6:15 AM:

" I'm thrilled that Napa is hosting this event this weekend. I plan to join the "troops" at the Oxbow this morning. Next on the agenda: repeal Prop. 8. "

reneefannin wrote on Jun 21, 2009 8:34 AM:

" A great weekend to celebrate Pride in our beautiful Valley. Thank you Bardessono, Pride Mtn, Oxbow, TraVigne, Beringer for hosting events! and thank you to all other businesses and individuals that donated to the silent auction and businesses that have joined NVEC for letting us know that our families are accepted and supported here!! What a wonderful three day celebration! "

justhefacts wrote on Jun 21, 2009 9:06 AM:

" I'm wondering if The "Proud to NOT be Gay BUT Straight crowd would get a rally together. And if so, Would we get any INK in The Napa Valley Register??? We have Gay this, Black that, Hispanic this, Affirmative action that. Is there anything sacred for the "Majority of right thinker people" anymore?? How about a "Straight People/Normal Day Parade"? Or a "Straight Black People Day" or a Straight Hispanic people Day" or a "Straight Women's Day" or a Straight Asian People Day"? DO we really still need all the Titles and Groups?? "

livinggood wrote on Jun 21, 2009 11:50 AM:

" Kudos to the organizers of this years Gay Pride Celebration.. What a great time.. And Thanks to all of our haters for leaving us alone for once.... Can't wait for next year to make it bigger and better..... "

napa2000 wrote on Jun 21, 2009 1:08 PM:

" I'm a new member here and somehow Napa Register is blocking my coments towards this matter. All i'm doing is expressing my opinion yet this so-called newspaper wants us to live in a communist like community. It's a shame that whoever controls this website has such a closed mindset to block any coments that might alter his/her point of view towards reality. "

hawkins707 wrote on Jun 21, 2009 2:01 PM:

" ... "

calistoga_tony wrote on Jun 21, 2009 2:41 PM:

" Gays could have the rights they seek, if only they knew themselves, and understood the people against gay marriage. But gays continue in their old ways. Tip: close your mouths and open your ears.

Understand that your deviant sexual behavior doesn't equal my race. You are not a minority. Your deviant behavior isn't a protected cival right. Marriage for gays isn't a human right. Gays might have the mainstream media fooled into this nonsense, but that's about it.

Why do gays march with 'pride'? Do blind people or deaf people have 'pride' parades? A man laying down with a man is biologically incorrect. It's not hate speech, just a fact.

When gays begin to respect straight people, and our beliefs, when gays respect parental rights (not forcing the gay agenda on every child in school) when gays stop crazy lawsuits (forcing match.com to create a gay dating site when plenty of gay sites exist) attack gay H8 (perez hilton) then more straights might march with you.

Stop abusing our language with terms like human rights, and civil rights when demanding things you have no right to (marriage) and you might get somewhere. Until then uphold Prop 8 "

King Julian wrote on Jun 21, 2009 3:28 PM:

" OK been here, now you can leave. "

realnewnapa wrote on Jun 21, 2009 4:11 PM:

" yes!!! take to the streets! show people that the age of discrimination is now finished!!!! "

Cowboy wrote on Jun 21, 2009 4:35 PM:

" I am disabled from a birth defect, but I am not "proud" of it. If I were proud to be defective I'd also have a mental problem. "

sicksense wrote on Jun 21, 2009 4:43 PM:

" Bravo calistoga_tony! "

wawewaiii wrote on Jun 21, 2009 5:33 PM:

" way to go! calistoga_tony "

Raven wrote on Jun 21, 2009 5:35 PM:

" so you think being gay is a birth 'defect' Cowboy?Why shouldn't people be proud of themselves, with all their imperfections?

deviant sexual behavior...you realize tony that there is nothing in the sexual behavior of gays and lesbians that is not also in the sexual behavior of straight folks as well?

Stop abusing our language with terms like human rights....can you explain how the language is being abused?

What do you, sicksense, cowboy fear so much about homosexuals having the same civil rights you enjoy? "

alucawanza wrote on Jun 21, 2009 5:38 PM:

" justhefacts:
You get to go to the teabag parties and down to Planned Parenthood.... It's called freedom of speech.

calistoga-tony: You're way behind in your posting. There have been so many articles that have been posted here and commented on regarding gay rights. Go back in the archives and take a look. You're months behind. Your opinions have been refuted over and over again.
*Being gay is not deviant. It is natural.
*Marriage for gays is a civil right.
*Gays march in pride for unity. They are also exercising their freedom of speech and assembly.
*Blind people and deaf people can also be gay people.
*Gay people do respect straight people. We are all the same.
*There is no gay agenda in the public schools. This is a myth.
*Gays have every right to marriage. They are American citizens.
Read the archival posts. Many have posted with true insight and information. It's worth the time.

You state that your post is not hate speech. What is it then? How will gay marriage hurt you? What damage will it cause you? Be real. "

mamawana wrote on Jun 21, 2009 6:56 PM:

" Here in the good old USA, we have the right to be free, speak freely, and express out opinions. I am not gay. I think Gays should be able to parade, protest, and express their feelings like anyone else. I may not agree with certain gay or straight values, but that's okay, because that's MY opinon! We all need to live and love each other, no matter what lifestyle we choose. "

king julian wrote on Jun 21, 2009 7:10 PM:

" I agree, I am sick and tired of proud to be a ____ month. They're everywhere you go, even ATT Park. Have you ever seen "white" history month on KQED??? Why do we have to have all these "I'm proud to be ____ march's. I don't put a "proud to be normal (straight) sticker on my car. Why do I have to look at your "rainbow" sticker. You know that the rainbow was created in the Bible as Gods sign that he won't flood the world again. I don't march in your yard don't march in mine. "

whodini wrote on Jun 21, 2009 7:14 PM:

" And yet another good reason that I left Napa. "

diehard4ever wrote on Jun 21, 2009 7:43 PM:

" calistoga tony for president. Blunt honesty is desperately needed in our world today.

I believe that gays have already altered my life enough. I'm 13 and I've already been called hateful, intolerant, closed minded, racist and even blood thirsty for my views, so have most conservatives. Who's intolerant? I've had to "play dumb" to avoid losing friends who oppose my views hundreds of times, so have most conservatives. Who's intolerant? I've had to keep my mouth shut while I heard things that made me want to punch in a wall to avoid having myself looked down upon, so have most conservatives. Who's intolerant? I might not be able to get into Harvard Law like I want to because, consiously or not, most people navigate away from anyone who says something that goes against what everyone else says because they have been BRAINWASHED to believe that we should worship minorities and special interest groups, otherwise you're a racist. So call me racist. Call me closed minded. Call me whatever you want, but I will not change my mind simply because I am going against the grain. I know what's right, and I'm standing by it. "

John Richards wrote on Jun 21, 2009 7:55 PM:

" Cowboy wrote: " I am disabled from a birth defect, but I am not "proud" of it. If I were proud to be defective I'd also have a mental problem."

Excellent point, Cowboy. It seems that those who feel inadequate need to crow the loudest, to make up for their feelings of inferiority. "

Old Time Napkin wrote on Jun 21, 2009 8:01 PM:

" Right on diehard4ever! Many of us are tired of having these personal agendas crammed down our throat. "

napalawyer wrote on Jun 21, 2009 8:45 PM:

" Some of the folks in Napa and on this board obviously feel offended or threatened by marches like this and the requests for equal rights being made by the gay community and those that support them. They don't seem to realize that that's exactly why marches like this are happening and necessary- so that people who feel threatened by this progress can see their "enemies" out and about and see that they are just like everyone else. Some are radicals, some are odd, just as you can find in any particular group, but most are just people, many of whom you'd never even guess were homosexual if you weren't told. They want to emphasize that they are proud of who they are because for ages most homosexuals have been forced to stay "in the closet". The rights that they are asking for do not take away from those who have already been granted those rights. There is nothing to be scared of or threatened by. I pray for a world where every person has the right and privilege to marry their soulmate. I think that would be a better world, not a worse one. "

zist707 wrote on Jun 21, 2009 8:59 PM:

" Why does it offend some people when members of the gay community choose to come together?
If this was a Christian prayer group or chef's market where there are drunk tourist walking around nobody would have complained.

It was just an opportunity for us to get together once a year to have some fun "

Hear Ye wrote on Jun 21, 2009 9:20 PM:

" Talk about over dramatic! Heaven forbid some people come together to have fun and maybe exercise a First Amendment or two. Get over yourselfs.

If you want to go out and march for white pride or "normal" pride (whatever that means) then do it. No one is stopping you.

The only thing these comments do is let people show their true colors. You can tell some people feel very threatened and angry over people gathering and having a good time. You should try it some time, it's good for the soul. "

winewoman wrote on Jun 21, 2009 9:22 PM:

" diehard4ever - some people call it "brainwashed" - others call it "enlightened". The latter is generally the result of really listening to one's fellow man and realizing that we are all connected in this very large universe. I'm glad that you're not old enough to vote.

JR - why am I not surprised that you latched onto Cowboy's birth defect analogy. (it's a statement, not a question) Cowboy, while you may not be proud of your birth defect, I would hope that you don't let it hold you back in life. Surely you don't want people to pity you or think less of you for it. While being gay is not a birth defect, the same principle applies - why think less of a person because they are different?

calistoga tony, uhm, there just aren't enough words... "

John Richards wrote on Jun 21, 2009 9:48 PM:

" winewoman wrote: 'why think less of a person because they are different."

False premise. Cowboy and I don't think less of a person if they happen to have a birth defect, or are gay. But the point is, cripples don't go marching downtown in their wheelchairs, people who have hepatitis don't go demonstrating on the streets, nor do average folks feel a need to go tooting their own horn. So why should gays? It's just a spectacle, a means to get coverage in the mass media. "

reneefannin wrote on Jun 21, 2009 9:59 PM:

" ohn Richards wrote on Jun 21, 2009 9:48 PM:
" winewoman wrote: 'why think less of a person because they are different."

False premise. Cowboy and I don't think less of a person if they happen to have a birth defect, or are gay. But the point is, cripples don't go marching downtown in their wheelchairs, people who have hepatitis don't go demonstrating on the streets, nor do average folks feel a need to go tooting their own horn. So why should gays? It's just a spectacle, a means to get coverage in the mass media. "

We missed you at the weekend events, JR. Do you just attend the marriage rights events? Because the Pride Celebration is much less serious and more aimed at just having fun. Make sure to join us next year! "

whocares21 wrote on Jun 21, 2009 10:22 PM:

" What's next? How about me marrying my dog or my brother or my cat? If you say no, you're violating my civil rights! When did it become wrong to be white, straight, wealthy and christian? I'm so sick of all this, get over it already. Gays are going to step and step and cry and cry until everyone gives in...what would happen if we wanted a white, straight parade? Oh wait, the Register would list our names so we would be called racists. Gay marriage is not about civil rights, it's about destroying an institution....marriage. Sad. "

diehard4ever wrote on Jun 21, 2009 10:39 PM:

" winewoman,
I am sorry I have to disagree with you..."enlightened" would mean I HAVE to accept YOUR views. No questions asked.

"brainwashed" would mean I have no choice other than agreeing with what is ABSOLUTE TRUTH to you...meaning, my brain has been 'reprogrammed' to fit what you consider is "proper"...If those are my only choices, I choose to stay in the MAJORITY's 'darkness'. "

007WYNWM wrote on Jun 21, 2009 11:00 PM:

" calistoga_tony always good hearing from you king julian you guys are 100% correct. Look at them crying about how obama just BS them with their new Fed package. As the homosexual agenda trys to bully the courts people are doing everything the can to keep marriage a man and a woman and just dont beleive what they try to tell you about the 5 other states, its not over yet. "

napa1957 wrote on Jun 21, 2009 11:38 PM:

" I think that NVR did a dis-service in reporting on the "march", but not on the success of the wonderful events held for Pride Napa. Had I not had a granddaughters birthday party out of town to attend, I would have been proud to support my friends and coworkers who are gay by enjoying these events with them. ALL people deserve to be proud and celebrate who we are! "

Paddy wrote on Jun 21, 2009 11:48 PM:

" When's the Straight Pride Parade? There isn't? Is that because it would be to in-your-face rude? "

rpcv wrote on Jun 22, 2009 7:30 AM:

" Groups that have fought for and obtained at least some of their civil rights under the law-- African Americans, Latinos, Union members, the disabled, Native Americans, women-- may no longer feel the need to march and protest unfair practices. But the degree of legal parity they have obtained did not come easily. Let's not forget that these, too, were oppressed groups until they raised awareness with marches, protests, and gatherings (I am not implying that their struggles are over, however).
Calistoga Tony, JR, Cowboy, OTNapkin, diehard4ever: if you're up for a challenge, try reading Peggy McIntosh's well-known article, "White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Backpack." "

007WYNWM wrote on Jun 22, 2009 8:21 AM:

" rpcv you try reading Homosexuality and American Psychiatry [ The Politics of Diagnosis ] Even the doctors the helped change the diagnosis on homosexuality, later..and to this day said they were bullied. Try reading that. I was a live when homosexuals had to carry a green cards, for the protection of the community do you remember that? "

Raven wrote on Jun 22, 2009 8:26 AM:

" have your parade paddy...by all means.... "

rpcv wrote on Jun 22, 2009 9:28 AM:

" 007WYNWM, what other dangerous groups would you like to see carrying cards "for the protection of the community"-- brown-eyed people? Presbyterians? Bagpipe players?
Hitler tried that carding thing, with rather unfortunate results. "

reneefannin wrote on Jun 22, 2009 10:07 AM:

" I agree that a disservice was done reporting only on our little "parade". They even headlined it incorrectly calling it a "rally". The surrounding events of the weekend were much more fun and better attended. The kick off party atop Bardessono's rooftop pool on Friday , the beautiful dance hosted by Beringer on Saturday night at the winery and yesterday's brunch at Oxbow where all but one merchant avidly participated offering specials, wearing T shirts supporting equality and putting up signs celebrating Pride month and Napa's Pride weekend. The march was a fraction of the wonderful supportive event that this valley hosted. Thank you Napa Valley, for your majority No vote on 8 and for your wonderfully supportive business community. Thank you, St Helena and Yountville for your Equality Resolutions. I am proud to live and raise my children here. "

napamomma wrote on Jun 22, 2009 10:49 AM:

" ME: Straight, Married, Momma of 4 children.

It's time that everyone stops worrying about everyone else and take care of their OWN business!!

I am PROUD to live in a country where people can be gay/straight freely AND and I am PROUD that I live in a country where I CAN march with people I support!

"deviant" sexual practices, give me a BREAK!! You do realize that straight people practice the SAME "deviant" practices that gay people do??

"OMG, THE GAYS ARE AT IT AGAIN!!!" So how about this: if you are feeling left out, plan a march of your own. Geez!

The kids and I had a wonderful time at the pride walk and celebration picnic. I AM PROUD to be a supporter!!!!! "

Maven wrote on Jun 22, 2009 11:09 AM:

" Diehard4ever –

When you say that you hold views that cause people to see you as “hateful, intolerant, closed minded, racist and even blood thirsty” and you admit that you want to “punch in a wall” because of concern about how you are viewed, you may not intend to, but you sound disturbed. Have you always been viewed as “hateful” or is this something newer in your life? I hope that you have someone - a teacher or clergy person - who can talk to you about why people see you in this way.

A family member of mine recruits for Harvard and while no political views will keep you out of Harvard, if peer and teacher interviews indicate that you are anti-social and “hateful, intolerant, closed minded” or “blood thirsty,” you would likely be rejected. You may wish to rethink how important it is to get into Harvard. You need to understand that it’s a school that will not discriminate against you because of your beliefs or political views, but it will need to see that you are having a positive impact on your community. "

Maven wrote on Jun 22, 2009 11:21 AM:

" I have to say that I find it entertaining that *most* of the people in the picture are not gay, but supportive family members.

As for people worried about their “own” parades – there are special fund raising events for all kinds of groups. And, at this picnic, there were disabled people, Christians and people of other faiths, racial minorities. Even a few Republicans. As has been pointed, there are no groups that don’t include gay people.

One thing I have found is that the whole issue of Proposition 8 has made this issue far more visible. As a parent, I am around a lot of kids. Our house is a place that kids enjoy hanging out. And I’ve noticed that kids who never before even thought about same-sex marriage or gay rights are now very well informed. At all ages, they are talking about it in school because it’s all over the news.

If Proposition 8 was supposed to keep kids from constantly hearing about same-sex marriage, it has backfired tremendously. Even elementary school kids are now hearing about same-sex marriage from friends, the television and the internet. "

jmo wrote on Jun 22, 2009 2:54 PM:

" Hooray for the walkers/marchers/supporters or what ever. However, the NVR counter must have double vision. When I was down town I give it @ 50 people. Not much was going on with one block taped off. The only really interesting news was the 2 porta - potties in the parking lot between the Bounty Hunter and Downtown Joes also had a wash basin...How thoughtful. -:) "

John Richards wrote on Jun 22, 2009 5:13 PM:

" I find it somewhat cynical that although this was billed as a Gay Pride parade, the only visible posters were those proclaiming anti Prop 8 sentiments. You don't win over community support by accusing your neighbors of malfeasance. "

cedwardswine wrote on Jun 22, 2009 5:56 PM:

" Thank you Napa, the Unity League planning committee and the businesses that made this Napa Pride a great success in Napa. This event led several people to stay the weekend in Napa. I met several gay couples that came to Napa, stayed in our local hotels, ate at our local restaurants and contributed to the local tax base attending this event from LA, San Diago, San Fran, Santa Rosa, Palm Springs and even a couple from St Louis that wanted to visit the wine country for Pride weekend.

The kick off party atop Bardessono's rooftop pool on Friday was great and over 100 folks joined for drinks. The beautiful dance hosted by Beringer on Saturday night brought over 500 gays and lesbians together in dance and as a community fundraiser for the Care Network at the Queen of the Valley. TraVigne restaurant served as a great stopping off point after the dance for drinks and a great upscale bite to eat.

The gay community again brought fun, business and community together to raise funds for charity in our local community of Napa.

Sunday Brunch at Oxbow where all but one merchant avidly participated offering specials, wearing T shirts supporting equality and putting up signs celebrating Pride month and Napa's Pride weekend shows that progressive businesses get it!

Thank you to the business that supported us and the community that made this event a safe, memorable fun event that contributed to the value and diversity of Napa.

Chris Edwards- Napa "

winewoman wrote on Jun 22, 2009 6:41 PM:

" Gosh, JR, you don't give your fellow human much credit. I'm willing to bet that most folks can evaluate the validity of an issue on its merits, regardless of how the message is delivered. If not, well, all of you Christians are radicals and have television shows, block clinics and kill abortion doctors. And we know that isn't true, don't we? "

diehard4ever wrote on Jun 22, 2009 7:38 PM:

" Maven-
I want you to take a guess at who I am. I want you to tell me what you think my race is, what you think I do for fun, if my parents are divorced or not, what I look like, who I hang out with, everything.

From what I have gathered, you think I am an antisocial mental case. I am not going to tell you if you are right until you tell me who you think I am. "

Raven wrote on Jun 22, 2009 7:46 PM:

" Is there some rule that says what posters should be carried JR...you have already expressed your disdain for the entire event, so what does the signage carried matter t you? "

reneefannin wrote on Jun 22, 2009 8:21 PM:

" John Richards wrote on Jun 22, 2009 5:13 PM:
" I find it somewhat cynical that although this was billed as a Gay Pride parade, the only visible posters were those proclaiming anti Prop 8 sentiments. You don't win over community support by accusing your neighbors of malfeasance. "

Our neighbors were there with us accused of nothing. There were many posters there representing PRIDE. For instance, I have a excellent shot of a man in a glassy winged sharp shooter costume holding a rainbow sign that simply sends a gay pride message. It was my personal fav. Then there was the PFLAG booth where parents were there to support their lesbian and gay children. You should check that group out. They are awesome!! Then there was the Napa Valley Democrat booth and the Red Cross booth, the snow cone man, the face painting lady that the children of gay and straight families thoroughly enjoyed and a few others. It definitely was NOT just anti Prop 8. If there seemed to be a lot of those signs, I guess it is because people are just feeling a little strongly about their civil rights being stripped...go figure..Overall though, the entire weekend was a wonderful celebration of our families and our commitment to never go back in a closet as many of you would like us to do. It was a beautiful display of living from the heart and living out loud and it was an amazing show of support from our fellow Napa Valley citizens and businesses to say that we and our marriages and our families are equal in this community and that we are welcome to raise our children here as out gay citizens in this magnificent valley. "

Vineboy wrote on Jun 22, 2009 9:33 PM:

" Me: white, male, successful, conservative and grew up in small town wine country...oh and just happen to love a man. It's such a small part of who I am, and frankly it's nobody's business.

However, let's cut to the chase: when people stop threatening, beating and killing us - and teaching their children that it's ok ok to do so - then the parades will stop. We won't need them anymore and we can go back to living our own lives like everyone else does. "

reneefannin wrote on Jun 22, 2009 10:21 PM:

" Amen, Vineboy. "

Maven wrote on Jun 23, 2009 7:02 AM:

" John Richards -

You said “You don't win over community support by accusing your neighbors of malfeasance." I’m not sure that “malfeasance” was the word you intended to use, since it is generally refers to misconduct by public officials. However, you have a point about accusations and the impact they have. Nothing turned my older parents into advocates than having someone tell them that those in favor of same-sex marriage were “opposed to traditional marriage.” Married close to 60 years, they found that very *offensive* that they would be described that way when divorced and remarried people (even multiple times in the case of my neighbors) claimed to “support” traditional marriage. It moved them from being mildly involved (willing to vote a particular way) to becoming financially and vocally involved. "

equalnotspecial wrote on Jun 23, 2009 7:05 AM:

" While you may not think of them as straight parades, St. Patrick's day parade is one that fairly well qualifies. Even though some Irish people are gay, in New York at least, they aren't allowed to march openly. The 4th of July, Veterans day, and all the other parades are predominately straight celebrations, even thought there are many gay veterans and gay people in those other parades.

The reason straight people don't need a straight parade or march is because straight men at least, have never been denied equal rights. Gay people are still denied military service, federal protections in the areas of employment, housing, adoption, hate crimes, marriage equality, and other rights granted to straight people.

As Vineboy points out, once the abuse, marginalization, and stigmatization stops, there will no longer be a need for a march, rally, or parade. The sooner equal rights are granted, the sooner we can all work together on the many other challenges that affect us all. "

antipc wrote on Jun 23, 2009 7:50 AM:

" Every time I hear the term "gay pride" I don't whether to laugh or gag. What's to be so proud of?

I see it as a PC term for 'acknowledge me for what I am rather than who I am'.

Ridiculous. "

Raven wrote on Jun 23, 2009 9:36 AM:

" interesting new study from the Barna Group released yesterday.....

“People who portray gay adults as godless, hedonistic, Christian bashers are not working with the facts,” declared the best-selling author of numerous books about faith and culture. “A substantial majority of gays cite their faith as a central facet of their life, consider themselves to be Christian, and claim to have some type of meaningful personal commitment to Jesus Christ active in their life today.

“The data indicate that millions of gay people are interested in faith but not in the local church and do not appear to be focused on the traditional tools and traditions that represent the comfort zone of most churched Christians. Gay adults clearly have a different way of interpreting the Bible on a number of central theological matters, such as perspectives about God. Homosexuals appreciate their faith but they do not prioritize it, and they tend to consider faith to be individual and private rather than communal.

“It is interesting to see that most homosexuals, who have some history within the Christian Church, have rejected orthodox biblical teachings and principles – but, in many cases, to nearly the same degree that the heterosexual Christian population has rejected those same teachings and principles. Although there are clearly some substantial differences in the religious beliefs and practices of the straight and gay populations, there may be less of a spiritual gap between straights and gays than many Americans would assume.”

barna.org/barna-update/article/13-culture/282-spiritual-profile-of-homosexual-adults-provides-surprising-insights "

reneefannin wrote on Jun 23, 2009 3:37 PM:

" antipc wrote on Jun 23, 2009 7:50 AM:
" Every time I hear the term "gay pride" I don't whether to laugh or gag. What's to be so proud of?

I see it as a PC term for 'acknowledge me for what I am rather than who I am'.

Ridiculous. "

There is "how you se it" and what it really means to the people who use the term. To be "proud" means to be unashamed. To carry all the parts of who one is with dignity and to live one's life without apology for the way one was born. Gay Pride month is about not having to "pretend" that you are something that you are not to make others comfortable. It si about being who youa re and celebrating feeling comfortable in your own skin. What I have found through the struggle of knowing I was gay and coping with what that meant for my social integration is that once I was comfortable in my own skin, once i stopped hiding who I was, all of a sudden, I became much more tolerant of who other people were. I am now much more able to accept that many many differences within an individual and within a society that weave together to become the fabric of that society.

Happy Pride Month...Celebrate yourself and your families! We shall overcome. "

equalnotspecial wrote on Jun 23, 2009 7:18 PM:

" I too, had trouble with the use of the word "pride" when black people started using it in the 60's and within the gay population as well. It is, after all, listed as one of the 7 deadly sins, (even though homosexuality itself is not). But pride, like many words, has many definitions, and has both positive and negative connotations.

The word pride is used in this case an antonym for shame, which has been used to control and oppress LGBT persons throughout history. Pride in this sense is an affirmation of ones self and the community as a whole. The modern "pride" movement began in 1950, but didn't get national media recognition until the Stonewall riots of June, 1969, which is why we hold gay freedom marches which later turned into the modern gay pride parade. In the early days when simply being gay was punishable by law, the focus was on gay liberation or freedom, but as the movement progressed and more freedom was gained, the focus moved toward countering the shame that is inflicted by some segments of society, as well as overcoming the laws which restrict the equal rights of gay people.

Several examples of the attempt to use shame to control and marginalize gay people can be found on this very thread. The words "deviant, biologically incorrect, inadequate, destroyers of institutions", as well as other insinuations have been used here in attempts to shame, silence, control, and oppress gay people. So as these examples illustrate, gay people have to maintain a sense of acceptance and affirmation for our self to overcome the shame inflicted by the intolerant. We have even seen the intolerant trying to shame us for not being tolerant of intolerance. "

antipc wrote on Jun 23, 2009 8:14 PM:

" If gays truly want the government out of their bedrooms then why bring your bedrooms into the streets?

I don't need parade of my peers to be proud of my accomplishments. I'm happy to access my self worth in private......... and it didn't take me 30 years to figure out who & what I am.

Once again these little spectacles are self-serving in your face demonstrations of self-pity & wishful acceptance of those who only want to be left alone.

Get hitched, just stop trying to call it something it isn't. "

equalnotspecial wrote on Jun 23, 2009 10:09 PM:

" Antipc.
One of the things you don't understand it that this is about much more than the bedroom. This is about the rest of our lives that occur outside of the bedroom as well. Whether our children will have the legal protections afforded to most citizens, and whether our life partners will have all of the rights and responsibilities you demand for yourself.

You don't need a parade to remind others that you exist and therefore, deserve the same rights guaranteed by the constitution to all citizens equally. You have never been denied the rights granted to you. You have never had them voted away by a simple majority. So of course you don't need a parade. You have it all, and have never had to struggle with the fact that who and what you are is despised by many of your parents, peers and society in general. So of course your self worth has not been a question for you. You fit the role society tells you to fulfill. But not everyone fits that role. A minority of the population has always been and will always be, gay. It is time to put aside you prejudice and treat others the way you yourself want to be treated. "

reneefannin wrote on Jun 23, 2009 11:29 PM:

" antipc wrote on Jun 23, 2009 8:14 PM:
" If gays truly want the government out of their bedrooms then why bring your bedrooms into the streets?

I don't need parade of my peers to be proud of my accomplishments. I'm happy to access my self worth in private......... and it didn't take me 30 years to figure out who & what I am.

Once again these little spectacles are self-serving in your face demonstrations of self-pity & wishful acceptance of those who only want to be left alone.

Get hitched, just stop trying to call it something it isn't. "

I don't know what you are talking about. I want the government to give me my equal rights.
Who said anything about being out o fmy bedroom?
I want my children to know that our union is equal and I want you to stay out of my marriage and kep your democracy off of my civil rights when they do nothing to infringe upon yours.......and that's what it is... it is a marriage.....legally, spiritually and ethically....don't ever tell my kid his mamas aren't married..... "

antipc wrote on Jun 24, 2009 6:53 PM:

" I'm not buying the arguments, I got your point of view long ago & I disagree. You constantly overplay the discrimination card. I've had the butch element look at & talk to me very disrespectfully, I dismiss them unless they cross the line. It's a two way street that you only see one side of.

Why should 5% +/- of the population be allowed to change the definition of the word marriage? I want my marriage cert. to mean what it said when I signed it. Get your own name for it & stop trying to change the entire world for selfish reasons. 230 years of constitution should not be jeopardized over a self-serving group of people that over-value their importance to the detriment of the nation.

One more thing I want equal rights too, but the state of CA won't allow me to own guns the state of NV will. Do you see protesting in the streets & crying discrimination. I have the freedom to leave CA, as do you.

Get over yourselves & you'd be surprised at the results. "

equalnotspecial wrote on Jun 25, 2009 7:33 AM:

" antipc. You have the same rights to gun ownership that all Californians have. While those rights vary from state to state, if you decide it is important enough for you to move to Nevada, you will have all of the rights in Nevada that the majority of people there have. You do no know what it means to be singled out for less than equal rights in the state you live in and in the country you live in.

Marriage equality is only one of many rights you have that is denied to gay people. While you will be afforded equal rights in any state you move to, gay people do not have that option. Employment protections, housing, adoption, hate crimes protections, military service, as well as relationship protections do not exist in many states or at the federal level. Whether traveling for business or pleasure, your relationship rights remain the same, while the rights of gay people change every time they cross a state line.

Whether gay people comprise 5 or 10 percent of the population is not important. The constitution was intended to protect all citizens equally. The threat to it comes from changing it to remove the equal protections for minority groups. The founding fathers knew majorities would restrict the rights of minorities and that is the very reason we have a constitution and the bill of rights. It was intended to protect minorities from the prejudices of the majority. As John Adams, the second U.S. president, pointed out: "the majority has eternally, and without one exception, usurped over the rights of the minority." "

Raven wrote on Jun 25, 2009 9:58 AM:

" antipc, the only person who can change the meaning of your marriage certificate is you. No outside force can change that.

Why is the common response ....don't like it, leave....and what point did those who favor same sex marriage lose the right to live here and and try and change this state for betterment of us all? "

antipc wrote on Jun 25, 2009 6:39 PM:

" See, there you go again overplaying the discrimination thing. How do you know what I've been singled out for?

Jeeeez, you people are beyond believable, me, me, me. Try being an American 1st. Individualism is what this country is about, not conversion.

Liberal idealism can only succede by converting the ignorant, & even then it will still fail. "

equalnotspecial wrote on Jun 25, 2009 8:29 PM:

" Correction. Another spelling goof, and while I'm at it, might as well correct the grammar as well. That sentence should have read:

"You do not know what it means to be singled out for less than equal rights in the state and country in which you live."

Additionally antipc,
While you may have "had the butch element look at & talk to (you) very disrespectfully", no one has restricted any of your legal rights that aren't restricted to everyone else in your community. You have the exact same rights of the majority. Those are actually special rights, as they are granted only to some, and not to everyone equally. They are only granted to the majority, and are denied to a minority population.

While everyone has challenges to overcome, legal discrimination under the law is not one of them for you. It is also contrary to the ideals of equality this country was founded upon. While you have experienced mistreatment, as all of us have, the laws don't require less than equal treatment for you, as they still do for gay people in the areas of employment, housing, adoption, relationship protections and the over 1300 rights involved, etc. While you may dismiss this as "the discrimination card", you do not know what it is like to grow up hearing from both the law, some churches, and many others that you are defective, and therefore not worthy of equal treatment under the law or in society in general. While things have improved both legally and socially for gay people since the 1920's, equal rights continue to be denied for the gay population. "

Vineboy wrote on Jun 25, 2009 9:27 PM:

" Antipc - change the meaning of marriage certificate?! Oh you mean UNLIKE conservative republican S. Carolina governor Mark Sanford? Like that? "

Raven wrote on Jun 25, 2009 9:51 PM:

" fighting for equal rights is being an American first, anti.....not working to keep them away from everyone "

equalnotspecial wrote on Jun 26, 2009 7:00 AM:

" Way back in 1993, former republican senator and presidential candidate Barry Goldwater said: "The conservative movement, to which I subscribe, has as one of its basic tenets the belief that government should stay out of people’s private lives. Government governs best when it governs least - and stays out of the impossible task of legislating morality. But legislating someone’s version of morality is exactly what we do by perpetuating discrimination against gays."

The values of family, fidelity, and commitment are generally considered to be fairly conservative values.

Ignorance is merely the lack of information and can be overcome with education. It is bigotry that is difficult to cure. "

coffebeat wrote on Jun 26, 2009 2:56 PM:

" I agree with you, equalnotspecial when you said "Ignorance is merely the lack of information and can be overcome with education. It is bigotry that is difficult to cure."

Unfortunately so many people purposefully keep themselves in the dark so as to further push their self serving agenda. They are too afraid to change their minds lest their god or peers judge them.

Whether it be about a sexual preference, a culture, or religion I have come across so many people who refuse to listen to or seek out information other than what they have brought up to believe. Instead they cling to rhetoric - outdated ideology that isn't based on any factual information.

So, some people gathered in a public space to support gay equality. If you're annoyed-boo hoo. I don't particularly care to see those people hoarding the street in front of Planned Parenthood- makes me wonder don't they have lives and jobs to attend to instead of trying to convince people that birth control is murder. But I also get a little chuckle out of people purporting something that is disproved by science. So grouse all you want, but they aren't going away. You either like or dislike it, but they are there and they just want others to know that they aren't ashamed and that they are motivated to stand up for themselves.

I guess our differences just make life a little more interesting. And we should all be thankful that at least we ARE alive and capable of LOVING and capable of communicating that love in this country. "

Vineboy wrote on Jun 26, 2009 6:35 PM:

" Antipc - change the meaning of marriage certificate?! Oh you mean UNLIKE conservative republican S. Carolina governor Mark Sanford? Like that? "

John Richards wrote on Jun 26, 2009 9:48 PM:

" Vineboy wrote: " Antipc - change the meaning of marriage certificate?! Oh you mean UNLIKE conservative republican S. Carolina governor Mark Sanford."

I don't understand your point. Unlike the gays, Mark Sanford never tried to change the meaning of the marriage certificate. Furthermore, he apologized for breaking his marriage vows and admitted that he did wrong. There will always be individuals who stray from their marriage vows, but that doesn't mean they are trying to change the meaning or definition of marriage. "

John Richards wrote on Jun 26, 2009 9:52 PM:

" "Ignorance is merely the lack of information and can be overcome with education. It is bigotry that is difficult to cure."

So by your definition, anyone who is opposed to gay marriage is either ignorant or a bigot? "

Raven wrote on Jun 26, 2009 10:38 PM:

" Again JR, no one can change the meaning of your marriage certificate but you...it's sole meaning is what you and your partner put into it, no one can change that.

That was never said by anyone but you, JR....just that bigotry is harder to overcome than ignorance....but if you look at a large number of the posts opposed to same sex marriage, one can see plenty of examples of both. "

out in napa wrote on Jun 27, 2009 5:32 PM:

" Paddy there is a straight white parade, it's called the Tournament of Roses Parade. Maybe you've heard of it? "

John Richards wrote on Jun 27, 2009 11:16 PM:

" Raven wrote: "no one can change the meaning of your marriage certificate but you..."

You know very well that the gist of that discussion was about the meaning of the marriage certificate in general. Except for the name spaces, there is no such thing as individualized marriage certificates. "

Raven wrote on Jun 28, 2009 8:31 AM:

" JR....again...show us how allowing same sex marriage actually changes your marriage..the only one who can change the meaning of your marriage certificate is you. The state is doing nothing that affects the meaning of your marriage certificate. "

John Richards wrote on Jun 28, 2009 6:25 PM:

" Raven wrote: "the only one who can change the meaning of your marriage certificate is you."

To have the two participants in a marriage decide what the meaning of marriage is makes a mockery of traditional marriage law. My marriage certificate is in full compliance with both federal and state marriage laws. It is also in full compliance with the meaning of those laws and traditions as handed down through the ages. Can the 18,000 in California say that? "

John Richards wrote on Jun 28, 2009 6:29 PM:

" out in napa wrote: "there is a straight white parade, it's called the Tournament of Roses Parade."

Tournament of Roses Parade is for whites and straights only? That's news to me. Please post the documentation reference for that statement. "

equalnotspecial wrote on Jun 29, 2009 7:42 AM:

" Law determines what legal rights and obligations are attached to marriage. What it actually means on an emotional level is determined by the two people who enter into the contract. Love and procreation are not legal requirements, and there are no quotas. As Larry King and so many others continue to demonstrate, there is no limit on the number of times one can marry. What it means emotionally to the two people involved is determined by them and no one else.

Again, the traditional meaning and configurations, and legal as well as emotional meanings of marriage have taken many forms in many places through the ages, and has included same sex couples in some times and places and cultures, dating back at least 4,000 years. There is no rational reason for denying equality to same sex couples.

The Pride parades and celebrations are about much more than marriage though. They are in part about countering the shame and prejudice used to deny equal rights and the pursuit of happiness to millions of Americans. "

John Richards wrote on Jun 29, 2009 9:09 AM:

" I was pleased to see the US Supreme Court overrule Sotomayor today in the case of the white firefighters.
With any luck the same conservative court will get to review the Prop 8 appeal. Glad the pro-gay marriage lawyers didn't wait until B.O. had a chance to pack the court with his liberal cronies. "

Raven wrote on Jun 29, 2009 1:23 PM:

" dont be to happy JR..scalia wrote in his dissent on lawrence v texas that the ruling would invalidate restrictions against same sex marriage. "

reneefannin wrote on Jun 29, 2009 11:28 PM:

" Why do we march? Why do we celebrate Pride? As if the middle school student that hung himself this year were not enough, as if our loss of a basic civil access were not enough, I have yet another answer:

In the early morning hours on Sunday, they sat the pink triangle in San Francisco on fire and drove stakes through the material that comprised it. They scattered the notes that described the atrocities of the holocaust about. The rage towards gay people was clear in that act.
This post has asked why we march, why we even have Pride.
The answer is in that arson attempt:
Because we still have to. It is not because we want to. It is because we have to.
I would much rather blend in. I would much rather donate my money, my time to my sons school or any other needy charity,but instead I must fight for basic civil rights. I must put myself out there every day and risk the loss of friendship, of social acceptedness for me, for my wife and for our sons.
Say what you will, but proposition 8 promoted the hatred that thought it ok to burn that triangle. It promoted the hatred that raped the lesbian in Richmond. It promoted hatred of all kinds. It did that because it was based in a belief that somehow being born heterosexual somehow makes one deserving of things not afforded to those of us born gay.
We march because we still have to...and we pray, we hope.... for a day when it will no longer be necessary and we will be judged only by the character of our hearts.
That, my friends and neighbors is why we still march. Please join us. "

John Richards wrote on Jun 30, 2009 6:40 PM:

" Renee wrote: "proposition 8 promoted the hatred that thought it ok to burn that triangle. It promoted the hatred that raped the lesbian in Richmond. It promoted hatred of all kinds."

This is precisely the type of demagoguery that will ensure that no one who voted for Prop 8 will change their mind when the next referendum comes around. To ascribe the atrocities committed by a few crazies to the general population who voted for Prop 8 borders on slander. "

reneefannin wrote on Jun 30, 2009 7:50 PM:

" John Richards wrote on Jun 30, 2009 6:40 PM:
" Renee wrote: "proposition 8 promoted the hatred that thought it ok to burn that triangle. It promoted the hatred that raped the lesbian in Richmond. It promoted hatred of all kinds."

This is precisely the type of demagoguery that will ensure that no one who voted for Prop 8 will change their mind when the next referendum comes around. To ascribe the atrocities committed by a few crazies to the general population who voted for Prop 8 borders on slander. "

And blending in and staying quiet worked so well in the last election..... Our civil rights never shoud have come to a popular vote and by the next election, the people who thought that this could never happen and didn't bother to get motivated will be educated,motivated and rallied.
It is a fact that the passage of legislation that discriminates against people heightens the nerve of the "crazies" as you describe them. Never did I" ascribe the atrocities committed by a few crazies to the general population" nor say that the entire population that voted for Prop 8 would ever commit such an act.

What I did and will continue to say is that such legislation that gives the false impression that somehow a heterosexual union is "better" and "more worthy" than a same sex marriage emboldens the people who commit such acts. It endorses them.

Sorry that you misunderstood or misconstrued. Only you know which one occurred. I will always clarify so that the truth is clear and I will never again be silent. That did not work. "

equalnotspecial wrote on Jun 30, 2009 8:03 PM:

" The negative beliefs used to justify treating some citizens as less than equal under the law have serious impacts on the gay population. Those negative beliefs were used to support prop 8 as well as the many other laws which deny equality to gay people. Laws which single out gay people for less than equal treatment reinforce those negative beliefs which were used to marginalize and isolate gay people in the first place, creating a vicious cycle of discrimination.

In addition to the torching of the triangle, a gay man was beaten in New York, a woman was assaulted by a man at the Ohama Pride parade, a gay bar was raided in Texas and several people were injured by the police, a 60 year old lesbian was arrested at her home in Encinitas, California and thrown to the ground by police, while other guests to her private home were sprayed with pepper spray. Crimes against gay people because they are considered by some to be less than equal, continue on a daily basis.

Deputy district attorney for Santa Clara County, Jay Boyarsky, told the Mercury News that a jump in anti-gay hate crime is due to controversy over the marriage ban. He said: "My belief from having done this work for many years is that surges in types of hate incidents are linked to the headlines and controversies of the day. Marriage equality and Proposition 8 have been in the news, and we have seen an increase in gay-bashing."

According to the American Psychological Association: "Ideology assailants report that their crimes stem from their negative beliefs and attitudes about homosexuality that they perceive other people in the community share. They see themselves as enforcing social morals." "

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