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What is the Ag Preserve and how do you preserve it ?
Tuesday, May 26, 2009
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Over the last several weeks a number of land use issues have surfaced into the local press and it all starts to seem like deja vu all over again listening to the protests.

They are characterized by a group that perpetually resists every possible land use other than farming, backed by a chorus of neighbors saying it violates the ag preserve. Finally it is punctuated by the Sierra Club demanding a CEQA review of the whole thing, hopefully leading to an EIR. CEQA and EIR are acronyms standing for " you can’t do it, whatever it is."
It doesn’t matter that the decisions revolve around legal processes that have been hashed over and over for decades now, every time something comes up everyone except the lonely land owner wants to change the rules in the middle of the game to "preserve the ag preserve".

Each of the recent issues has involved something that is perfectly legal, and the landowners involved were following the rules that have been laid down for them to follow. We tell people what the permitted uses are, then when they want to do it, the community does everything it can to not only try to stop it, but to smear them, propagandize, and spread misinformation.
The Lake Luciana project is a good case in point. Now we are hearing that it is good grape growing land. Gee, is that why hundreds of acres have lain fallow for fifteen years in a world class grape growing region? If it were good grape growing land it would already be growing grapes because the owners would want the money. And the people saying you can grow grapes there know that.

Also, the owners of that property are trying to use it the way they have been told by the county that is legal. Same with the Nords in their Yountville property, same with PUC in Angwin.
Last week in the Supervisors meeting a county code enforcement officer was reviewing the various code enforcement violations they have dealt with over the past year, and he was showing some photos of several large houses that had been illegally broken down into apartment units and reconstructed without permits. He happened to innocently mention that this happens a lot in Angwin because, as we all know, there is a shortage of housing in Angwin.

I’m sitting there thinking, this guy must not live in the County, because as we all know, SRA has told us again and again there are so many available units in Angwin the eco village won’t sell.

I will tell you what we all know. The people who want to stop any and every legal development in Napa County are major fabricators, and they have managed to entirely confuse most of the rest of the population.

Here’s a bit of truth for anyone left here that may be interested. Part of the ag preserve is two large zoning areas of forty and 160 acres respectively. But the rest of the ag preserve is designated for development, and each and every parcel has some legal development rights. That is just as much a part of the ag preserve as the parcel size limits, and we run over those rights at our peril.

People act like any development at all is somehow opposed to agriculture. You could not have agriculture here unless you allowed some development. People have to live somewhere. Good grief, you have to get your tractor fixed somewhere.

Those who instituted the ag preserve were wise enough to include some land for future development. That was a wise decision and we need to respect that and include that in any discussion of the ag preserve.

Here are the problems I see coming. Eventually there is going to be a backlash, we have actually had two backlashes already, one was over Measure P, the stream setback ordinance, the second backlash was from affordable housing advocates who filed suit and won.

The second problem is that we need the housing. The community needs the housing. We need the housing for workers, and we need the housing to take commuter traffic off the roads, and we need the housing for young people and to make Napa a livable community. We need something different than another 1000 mansions in the hills in the next ten years, because right now that is where we are heading.

Housing is going to be built, and what we need are denser more affordable developments for people who are less than multi millionaires living in huge mansions. The developments that we are opposing are mostly multi-unit denser developments. We issue 114 permits for houses a year, actually use between 70 and 100, and they are all for big houses on big lots.

Why not stop some of that by giving the permits to something like the eco village at PUC? In the time it will take to build less than 400 non millionaire units there, eight to ten years, if we block that instead we will build double that in big mansions in the hills. We are going to build housing, but we are not building the housing that the community actually needs.

Somewhere along the way in the late 80's or early 90's Napa made a decision as a whole to go for the economic development of the County via the wine industry. There is no turning back from that without huge negative consequences. Napa is not a totally rural place any more.

If you want to see a place that was like Napa in the 70's before the decision to develop economically was made, go to Willits up in Mendocino. Thousands of acres of undeveloped land, just open fields and trees -- and no jobs, that are legal anyway. In fact, if you want to live in a place without housing and jobs, move to Willits and stop trying to turn Napa into Willits.

Because Napa made the decision to grow economically, we have to have places for people who work here to live. Period. If we don’t, we will have enormous traffic, which we do already, but it will get even worse. See: Santa Barbara.

We will have pollution, we will have crowding into housing that is available, we will have high real estate prices, and we will have continually greater and greater pressure because of that to end the ag preserve and just build.

If you push things too far in one direction and try to perfectly control everything eventually that control effort explodes in your face, it is like having a pressure boiler without a release valve, eventually the pressure builds so high it just explodes. Those who try to save the ag preserve by blocking every legal use of land are making a mistake, because it is too dismissive of other people’s rights and needs, and of community needs. Sooner or later that will backfire.

As we try to lock down every square inch of land for grape growing, even land that has always been designated for development, we are creating a situation of trying to perfectly control everything, which WON’T work, it never does. Far better to let off a bit of steam here and there, meet at least some of our other needs, and in that way preserve what we have for the future.
36 comment(s)

Bill wrote on May 26, 2009 4:38 PM:

" Am I to understand that there is room for “development” other than grapes in the Ag-preserve? Would that be housing and for whom would that housing be developed? Advocating something other than grapes and agriculture?

Wow! what a change of pace. Assigning blame generally of course to those people who might have a genuine concern about the quality of life about them should be expected from some one who would be so unconcerned about the niceties of accuracy as to plagiarize Yogi Berra. The things one can get away with on a website sponsored by the 4th estate is amazing.

A specific decision to grow suddenly appeared in the ‘70’s? The suggestion of moving to Willits resonates along the lines of its “my country love it or leave it” after all only the landed gentry have any interest of value. All conveniently lumped together in opposition to any novel idea such as a golf courses, Restaurants, hotels and of course lebensraum for the workers. Is there room in the Ag-preserve for “workforce” housing? It wasn’t that long ago that some prominent NB statements were decrying that there is no room in the county to accommodate the need for “workforce” housing or that “manufacturing” (which is what the wine industry does) was not a feasible alternative.

Now it looks like it can be squeezed out along with a few mechanics shops. Even room for light industry after all. You know you could get your tractor fixed at Napa Pipe, maybe even build a new tractor factory for all the mechanical stuff that the wine industry uses. Then provide some idyllic country homes for the workers. "

Jasper wrote on May 26, 2009 9:08 PM:

" I object.

First, because this author is too quick to call his opponents "major fabricators."

Second, some of his references to Angwin are not correct.

The author continues to oppose a land use philosophy which the majority of Napa County residents consider vital to their well-being - the preservation of ag. lands and open space. The Register gives him the opportunity to express his personal philosophy on property rights, but he refuses to accept that others may have as legitimate a philosophy which is totally different. He just lambasts us and calls us "major fabricators."

For the sake of accuracy, let me correct a couple of the author's perceptions.

First, SRA has never "told us again and again that there are so many available units in Angwin that the eco-village won't sell." One blogger makes that statement, but it is not documentable, and SRA has never made that claim.

The fact is that there are almost no jobs in Angwin other than those at the college and the local vineyards. The writer's statement "because we all know, there is a shortage of housing in Angwin" is not correct.

Just the opposition is true. Angwin provides affordable housing for workers in St. Helena, Napa and Santa Rosa. And yes, some "property rights" landlords have put too many tenants into their rentals, but that does not mean that these tenants work in Angwin. They do not. Repeat: They do not. Watch the trafffic going down the hill in the morning.

Second, the Luciana project should be denied precisely because it does not include affordable housing for its workers. Housing should be where the jobs are. "

napablogger wrote on May 26, 2009 11:43 PM:

" Jasper, that wasn't my statement, it was the one of the county code enforcement officers.

In these blogs SRA supporters have repeatedly made the claim that there is a lot of for sale and vacant housing in Angwin and the eco village lots wouldn't sell anyway.

And by the way, there are 650 employees at the hospital. My wife's doctor left there because he could not keep staff who kept having to drive too far to get to work, and could not find a place to live around there. He finally got tired of it and moved to Lake County.

Both of you seem to have missed my major point--that the ag preserve is in part development rights, each parcel has some development rights. The ag preserve will not hold up unless we honor that part of it too. "

Jasper wrote on May 27, 2009 7:18 AM:

" I'm back

It is not cricket for Napablogger to demonize Save Rural Angwin by citing statements made by any individual supporter. You just do that to support your personal viewpoint. Stop it!

There are practically no houses for sale in Angwin which come close to affordable. And why should there? There are not enough jobs in Angwin to justify a real estate development, the new owners of which would have to commute, as do most of the current workers, to jobs in the Valley or Santa Rosa.

You are correct now to attribute the statement about a housing shortage in Angwin to an uninformed County employee, but you used that statement to make one of your favorite points - that there is a shortage of housing in Angwin, when just the opposite is true. We furnish housing that should be down where the jobs are.

Yes, there are two imbalances in Angwin. Of the college's 300 employees, about 30, PUC says, are forced to commute from off the hill. (As for the Hospital, they are closer to St. Helena city and that is where affordable housing is more logical).

What we have in Angwin is a few people who have to commute here for the college jobs and many, many commuting from here to jobs elsewhere. You need to understand that fewer than 30% of the households in Angwin are college-related.

Your idea that 395 Triad houses here would solve Angwin's greatest imbalance is just way off the wall, and particularly because the Triad project proposes that only 15% be affordable. A total of 59 units.

No community should have to face an increase in households of 43%. And end up worse off. "

Paddy wrote on May 27, 2009 8:21 AM:

" Nothing about 'living wages'? Nothing about seasonal workers? Nothing about employer-provided housing? If you think out of the box Michael there are so many more options than the 18th century mentality of build until it's gone at the expense of all and the profit of few. "

emu wrote on May 27, 2009 9:16 AM:

" NB- your references to the proposed Angwin development make some unupported assumptions.They can both be found in your characterization of the subdivision as "less than 400 non millionaire units". The first assumption is that "non millionaire units" means that these units wil be affordable for any of our workforce, such as workers at the hospital. Triad has said themselves that they "hope to keep the cost of the homes "under a million dollars" - perhaps in the 700,000 or 800,000 dollar range. Does that sound affordable to you? Even a well-paid doctor would have trouble affording that! There will be only 59 out of 380 units in the "affordable" range. The rest will be for the affluent, probably second-home buyers who will find the idea of an "eco-village" cute and charming, not realizing that the whole name is a greenwashing ploy. The second implication is that "under 400" is a small number. There are fewer than 900 housing units in Angwin now. 380 would make a 43% increase in Angwin, suddenly making what is a hamlet into a city the size of St. Helena or Calistoga on top of Howell Mountain! "

revere wrote on May 27, 2009 9:43 AM:

" Development rights are included in the general plan. Many ag parcels do indeed have the right to build up to two residences and a small guest house. That isn't being contested. When a developer as with the golf course, comes in and buys up maybe forty parcels in order to create and manipulate the market. I don't have a issue with holding them to letter of the law and the general plan. They are doing it purely for the money, which isn't against the law, but is precisely the reason land prices are being run up and mega mansions are being built.
This is a mega mansion, resort development, this isn't a case of a landowner trying to build a house and being oppressed. "

ProAngwinConTriad wrote on May 27, 2009 10:34 AM:

" Perhaps it is time for divorce. When Napa’s self-ordained spokesman finds the need to combine misinformed anecdote and misstated fact into a curious version of reality designed to justify his disdain for agriculture, then it may be time to move on.

Haley offers a curious rant that suggests that we “save” the Ag Preserve by building housing. But buried in his self-contradictory work is the answer to his own dilemma. His command that all who do not want developers to eviscerate Napa Valley move is simply silly. The exploitive desire of a few developers should not control our fate. But Haley’s notion may work, in reverse. Why not bring the County to us? Could the Upvalley become part of ag friendly and ABAG-free Lake County? Yes.

Some have supposed that it may be time to revisit the boundaries of Napa County. This is not without precedent. Napa was one of the original 27 counties but its boundaries changed at least 6 times with land being gained and lost from Lake, Mendocino and Sonoma Counties. A boundary change can be accomplished with a majority approval of both sides and since the sides seem to have a mutual antipathy for each other, that should not be a problem. Lake County is not a member of ABAG and some of the geography and all of the economic activity and outlook of the Upvalley may be more compatible with Lake than what Haley represents is the vision of Napa. There is a line somewhere around Oakville that divides Haley’s world where agriculture means golf courses from the Upvalley where agriculture means growing crops that produce food. This should be the new County line.

Napablogger? "

Alter ego wrote on May 27, 2009 11:48 AM:

" What about the County's new housing "element" to allow a second "affordable housing" dwelling on all existing parcels?

That ought to be exciting. "

Econut wrote on May 28, 2009 8:34 AM:

" The comments here justify what Michael Haley wrote: "the community does everything it can to not only try to stop it, but to smear them, propagandize, and spread misinformation." "

Paddy wrote on May 28, 2009 11:48 AM:

" Econut - the smear, propagandizing and especially the misinformation really begins with those who want to redefine what the Ag Preserve was intended to be and what the populace has voted time after time to ensure it remains. "

Ruff Limblog wrote on May 28, 2009 2:30 PM:

" It is a change of topic to have our dear Mr. Hadley ranting about people who want to preserve the Agriculture Preserve instead of the recent rants about how overpaid public safety workers are.

Of course, it's now been three months since Mr. Hadley promised to produce a list of state budget cuts so that taxes would not have to be increased. It would seem that contemplating cuts large enough to balance the state budget seems to be something in which our Mr. Hadley has only a marginal interest.

Turning Ag Preserve into high-priced homes for the wealthy is something Mr. Hadley does show a cyclically recurring high level of interest.

~Ruff "

Jasper wrote on May 28, 2009 8:51 PM:

" I'm back.

Ruff, you misjudge Mr. Haley. He is not touting more mansions. He specifically deplores that and says: "We are going to build housing, but we are not building the housing that the community actually needs."

The problem is that in the case of Angwin, there is a lot of ignorance about housing. Angwin should not become more of a hub for housing workers in St. Helena, Napa, and Santa Rosa. It is too remote, and the long commute is hard on families and expensive. There is something wrong with a culture that requires every household to finance two cas. Housing should be built where the jobs are, and planners are committed to that. They want new housing close to mass transit or in cities where they can get to work more easily. Angwin is a bad choice for additional housing also, because there is no central sewage treatment plant and the water company is not allowed to take on more customers. Nearly half of us are on wells, and are quite happy with that, thank you. The water is wonderful.

We have more than our share of housing. Affordable housing. We provide that for hundreds of households with jobs at a distance. That does not mean we should be providing more housing for other communities. We live in a rural community, and like it just fine. Hey, this is America! "

Ruff Limblog wrote on May 29, 2009 4:39 AM:

" Jasper - If that were even marginally true our dear Mr. Hadley would be a member of 'Habitat for Humanity' and really affordable housing would be all over the Napa Valley.

And that is simply not the case.

Affordable housing is the bait, crocodile tears about the switch comes afterwards.

~Ruff "

napablogger wrote on May 29, 2009 10:58 AM:

" Jasper, if the new housing in Angwin were really unable to provide water and sewer than I would be against it.

Also, where we need housing because where we don't have it for the jobs that are available is the upper valley. Angwin is the place that for years we have planned for it, then when the property owner wants to do it we shut them down.

It would be better for St. Helena and Calistoga to build the housing but they won't do it either. Actually, all three places should build some housing. "

PUC Prof wrote on May 29, 2009 12:08 PM:

" Water is not the issue. The proposed ecovillage would be served by an already existing wastewater treatment plant at PUC which would be upgraded from secondary to tertiary treatment and the wastewater would be reused. Water conservation measures planned for the ecovillage may not increase the amount of groundwater withdrawn above what is currently withdrawn by PUC. "

ProAngwinConTriad wrote on May 29, 2009 5:25 PM:

" NB:
Frankly, you puzzle me. I understand and can overlook your sturm and drang. But what about building subdivisions in Angwin do you find good?

It is not jobs. There are no jobs in Angwin for wage earners that can cover an 80% mortgage on a ¾ of a million $ house. We have read about your wife’s doctor’s nurse. Unless she is paid a lot more than my wife’s doctor’s nurse she is not going to be going to open houses at the Eco-village. I have six nearby neighbors. Four commute off the Mountain to as far as Napa or beyond for work. There are no jobs in Angwin.

It is not because it is suitable for the area’s infrastructure. It isn’t. This issue has been beaten like a Hell’s Angel’s tattoo. You can’t credibly say it is and that, if nothing else should be a “non-starter” as you would say.

It does not add esthetically to the area. This is subjective but had you been at any of the Triad unveilings you would have seen a room full of sad eyes saying doesn’t.

Your most compelling claim is that we are slaves to ABAG. But why attack Angwin? If ABAG is the problem why not attack ABAG?

And why try to manipulate readers by misrepresenting the farm worker suit, settled one week after it was filed, as a suit that was “won” when it was not. Do you mean some other suit?

Perhaps you just like a good tussle and feel picking a side and dreaming up loose words to match it gives satisfaction. That’s OK. I understand. But why Angwin? "

TAXPAYER wrote on May 30, 2009 9:43 AM:

" Lets cut to the question of the Ag preserve.
Is it there for the farmers? No!!!
Is it there for the property owners? No!!!
It is there for The Liberal no growth supporters.

Have a nice day. "

napablogger wrote on May 30, 2009 10:40 AM:

" ProAngwinConTriad, the first problem I have is the constant propagandizing and essential dishonesty of SRA. They have so confused and distorted what is going on that we are not dealing with reality any more.

For instance, even your name, ConTriad, Triad has nothing to do with this but they have been slandered by SRA repeatedly. They are a top notch developer with good environmental credentials, and in any case it is PUC that is choosing to do this, not Triad.

And your statement that it is a subdivision--it is not a subdivision, it is an intentional effort to make it sound like a lot more than it is. All the statements about 43% increase in the size of the town--of course it is not a town anymore to SRA because that doesn't suit the propaganda line---are intentionally misleading. It is a small development in the overall scheme of things.

There is no problem with infrastructure, as PUC Prof just pointed out again for the umpteenth time.

And last but not least the county has been saying that this is the one urban, yes urban, place in the county where housing realistically could be built since the mid 70's, and no one has ever disputed it til now.

The upper valley needs the housing, it is PUC's property and they are trying to use it in the manner which they have been told they have a legal right to use it.

The ironic thing to me is once past the emotionalism, Angwin will be a better place to live once it is built. "

Paddy wrote on May 30, 2009 10:29 PM:

" Hey TAXPAYER.... the ag preserve is there for the grower and it is there for the owner. Haven't you seen all the very high end ranch vehicles in town? Kids with Porsches? The endless improvements to wineries and vineyards?

People are making money hand-over-fist, that's a great thing. The ag preserve would like them, or whoever owns the property next, to continue to do so.

Growers and owners come and go. Always have and always will. The land is here now, always has been and we're hoping it always will be.

What's the problem? "

glenroy wrote on May 31, 2009 7:09 AM:

" Taxpayer hit that one out of the park...


The Sierra Club got behind this when it was put before the voters....


What's the grip....growing grass...links grass....it a legal use in Ag preserve when it was orginally passed. This valley and county has too much land in vineyards already. "

Bill wrote on May 31, 2009 9:03 AM:

" Chuckle, chuckle the Ag-preserve is a liberal thing. Now that some convoluted thinking.

Any concern with the quality of life or the human condition promotes the the evil liberal conspiracy. It must be the flouride in the ground water around here. "

NapaCitizen wrote on May 31, 2009 10:10 AM:

" The White Man's way is to possess, control, and divide. It has always been difficult for Indian people to understand this. There are certain things we cannot own that must be shared. The Land is one of these things. We need to re-look at what we are doing to the Earth. We are digging in her veins and foolishly diminishing the natural resources. We are not living in balance. We do not own the Earth; the Earth owns us. Today, let us ponder the true relationship between the Earth and ourselves. "

ProAngwinConTriad wrote on May 31, 2009 3:13 PM:

" NB:
Is your very best reply to “why Angwin?” really to insult me or SRA or the character of those who believe subdivision building in Angwin is wrong? "

Paddy wrote on May 31, 2009 10:33 PM:

" NVR- I'd like you to retract TAXPAYER's letter... he/she is calling me names. Liberal! I've never!!! "

napablogger wrote on May 31, 2009 11:39 PM:

" ProAngwin, telling the truth is not an insult. "

emu wrote on Jun 1, 2009 9:05 AM:

" NB - If Triad is s such a top-notch developer, why don't they fulfill their promises and obligations? They have failed locally - Vallejo is a case in point.The city of Vallejo is currently trying to get rid of them because they haven't done the work they were supposed to do.Check out their record - it isn't good.
And as for Angwin having been long-slated for development by the county: the bubble only came into legal existence because Measure J failed to "protect" the land in the bubbles. One of the main authors of Measure J has said that they "never in their wildest dreams thought that PUC would want to becaome a real-estate developer". "

5th generation napan wrote on Jun 2, 2009 7:42 AM:

" Willits? Um, maybe we should also look at the farm land in Walnut Creek, Concord, Vaccaville and soon Stockton? Opps, there are none left! Hummmmmmm? I wounder. "

angwindeac wrote on Jun 3, 2009 10:38 PM:

" NB- Unless you and PUC PRof are engineers or have access to the EIR report for this project please cease and desist with the infrastructure is great talk. In Angwin 90+% of the homeowners are on septic systems.
The Howell Mtn H2O system has had minor and major problems since its inception.
The current "sewage plant" would need to be completely redone and would still be placed on the the existing Napa River feeders and would create a major toxic challenge.
Very few if any current residents would benefit from the infrastructure that would be created and if Triad bolted like they did in Vallejo we not the college would be left holding the bag.
One thing we would for sure get though---more traffic and deaths on Howell Mtn Rd. "

vocal-de-local wrote on Jun 8, 2009 1:00 PM:

" Michael Haley, I sometimes wonder if your real goal in opening up development (in whatever way you can, starting with Angwin), is so that you can develop your own property at some point in the future. A strategic developer knows, all too well, that developing other areas with presumably less resistance works like cancer metastasis. Once you gain a foothold elsewhere, explosion of growth typically follows and moves in other directions. Developers use all kinds of fancy words to gain entry; 'green", "affordable housing", "economically stimulating" etc. But once they gain entry, they use existing housing and population to justify even more growth.

If you are truly interested in affordable housing, why don't you approach planners with the concept of providing "Habitat for Humanity" housing on YOUR property? Oh that's right, you've made it clear that any affordable housing on the Valley floor is going to be met with too much resistance and therefore Angwin is the only realistic solution. Go to the place of (presumably) less resistance.

Ruff has it right when he states "Affordable housing is the bait, crocodile tears about the switch comes afterwards." "

vocal-de-local wrote on Jun 8, 2009 1:32 PM:

" Additionally...in response to Angwin's infrastructure - from what I understand, the sewage settling pond was originally intended primarily for college use. It was not built to accommodate hundreds of homes. Very few residential homes are hooked up to it in Angwin. Mostly it serves the college.


The pond was built on the edge of a creek which feeds into Lake Hennessey. Back in the days when this was constructed, they did not think about environmental consequences the same way they do today.

The College has had numerous problems with the pond. For years they had very significant odor problems. The Bay Area Air Quality Control became involved, but only after a few residents complained. One of those residents attempted to call the college first but was interrogated about where they lived, their exact address and WHO they were. It was a form of intimidation in my opinion. People employed at the college were afraid to complain and they just put up with the smell. In response to the Bay Area Air Quality District, the college upgraded the pond to include some type of machine which keeps odors under control. They were forced by "complaints" to respond. They did not just do it on their own because it was the "right" thing to do. There are potential health consequences to continued exposure to sewage gas odors. It's the reason that we have plumbing in our homes with pipes that redirect gasses elsewhere.

To allow "expansion" of this pond would be completely irresponsible. Even with "tertiary"treated water, what process is involved? Do they use chemicals? Is it ok to send tertiary treated water downstream toward a source of drinking water?

Who is going to police the system? Who pays when it malfunctions? "

Jasper wrote on Jun 9, 2009 4:48 AM:

" Napablogger,

Just because Angwin was considered for growth in the 1970's does not mean it should be considered for growth 30 years later. We have learned a lot since then, and one thing we have learned is that new housing should be closer to the jobs. There are no jobs in Angwin. When will that sink in? Your idea that Angwin should become the housing hub for St. Helena, Napa and Santa Rosa is just plain nutsy.

Your statement that Angwin would be better with the outrageous addition of 380 more housing units needs clarification. Better with more traffic? Better with much more work for our volunteer firemen? Better with more calls in the night for our unpaid ambulance crews? Better because of the increased demand on the water supply?Better because instead of being a small village, we would be on our way to becoming a real city?

So there is the challenge for you. Angwin would be better? "

PUC Prof wrote on Jun 9, 2009 11:27 AM:

" Vocal-de-local, am I correct in deducing that you were the one who complained about the odor, even though you live several miles away? Are you now going to demand the closure of all wastewater treatment plants in the county, or just the one near you?

There are probably tens of thousands of wastewater treatment plants in the USA. All produce odors. Steps can be taken to reduce but not eliminate odors. The odors are less than what would result if sewage was dumped directly into streams, which was the standard practice until a little more than a half century ago.

Many wastewater treatment plants are intentionally located near streams so that treated effluent can be conveniently released if necessary. PUC's treated effluent is sprayed in nearby fields, which is standard practice in many municipalities. If you think there's something inherently unhealthy about that, recall that manure from both humans and animals has been used as a fertilizer in agriculture for millenia. "

PUC Prof wrote on Jun 9, 2009 11:41 AM:

" Vocal-de-local, your comments on odor are exaggerated. I just spoke with a colleague who lived for several years in one of the three closest homes to the plant and he said he NEVER smelled it from his home. Personally I've never smelled any odors while playing ball on the adjacent athletic fields, although my nose is probably the most sensitive. "

PUC Prof wrote on Jun 9, 2009 3:00 PM:

" Make that NOT the most sensitive. "

vocal-de-local wrote on Jun 10, 2009 3:22 PM:

" PUC prof, I don't think you have a REAL clue about who I am or where I live. Don't make such assumptions when you clearly do not know anything about me. Just making a "suggestion" about "where" I live is somewhat intimidating to me.

PUC cleaned up the odor problems quite awhile ago. Unless you were actually living here at the time, I don't see how you could perceive it as "exaggerated". Why did the Bay Area Air Quality District become involved if it was just "exaggerated"?

Regarding the comment about constructing sewage settling ponds next to creeks to facilitate overflow, ummm, is that still allowed today? If not, do you honestly believe that the County is going to permit "expansion"? These kinds of issues involving basic infrastructure should have been carefully considered PRIOR to investing resources into a project. Instead, I think Triad/PUC partners moved haphazardly forward with this project carrying a type of "wishful thinking" mentality. "

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