" Since the arrest, Oscar Grant is still dead. "

" To Verum,
Yes since the arrest he is still dead. I guess mr grant shouldn't have been fighting and putting innocent people on bart in danger. Every action has a reaction. The action of him fighting and putting the general welfare and lives of the good innocent people on Bart in jeoparday, caused the reaction of Bart police to intervene and help save the lives of the innocent people on Bart. He didn't deserve to die for what happend but he shouldn't have put the general publics lives in danger "

" tiredof - wow, really?

Well, if you are ever assaulted on BART and defend yourself, I guess the officer is justifed to discharge a gun into your back at point blank while sorting things out, huh?

I'm not saying that's what happened to Grant here, I'm stating a hypothetical that demonstrates the lack of logic behind your statement.

You are essentially saying that non-lethal activities (i.e. fighting OR even defending oneself) justifies lethal force.

Bad logic there. And I guess we will see if the jury agrees...

Back on the article's topic, how can Mehserle afford Barry Bonds' attorney? What's going on with that? "

" Yes, tiredofcomplainingnapkins, street justice administered by police is certainly the right thing to do... Now if Mr. Grant had only been wounded instead of killed, the punishment of being shot would have been okay with you...???

The difference between a police state and anarchy is what...??? "

" tiredof, how many lives was grant putting in danger by lying face down on the ground with his hands behind his back? "

" Mr. Feasor, how on earth do you know the bank accounts of Johannes Mehserle or his family? How could you possibly know what he can/cannot afford?

Oscar Grant did not deserve to die, obviously. But how people are so ignorant and can't see that this was not intentional is just crazy. Johannes Mehserle made a tragic mistake. He did not intend to kill Mr. Grant. Do people honestly believe that Mr. Mehserle woke up that morning, after being a police officer for 2 years, and decided he would kill a black man that day??? Come on, people, think rationally. The threats being made to his family are horrifying. "

" Mr. Mehserle may not have intended to murder Mr. Grant, but I certainly don't want him "protecting" me, do you? Personally, my theory is that Mr. Mehserle panicked and pulled out a weapon - unfortunately, that weapon was not the Taser he thought it was. I don't think Tasering Mr. Grant was the right solution either (he was, after all, cuffed, unarmed, and subdued) but I don't think Johannes meant to shoot and kill him. However, I definitely don't want a cop like that back on the force. I wouldn't feel safe with that sort of polcie officer looking out for me. "

" The attorney is beeing paid through a state wide defense fund for police officers. "

" SDmom - I have no idea how much wealth the Mehserle family has. But the last time I checked, a police officer's salary is quite a bit less than a professional baseball player's.

Most Bay Area attorneys bill out at over $200.00 to $500.00 per hour. And it is reasonable to assume that Mr. Rains would be on the higher end. Further, the state bar does not allow criminal representation on contingency. So that's the basis of my question.

And I have always said that the individuals who have threatened the family must be found and fully prosecuted for their criminal acts.

Last - rationally speaking - your interpretation of "intentional" is incorrect. Penal Code section 187 defines murder as the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought.

Penal Code 188 defines implied malice aforethought as "when no considerable provocation appears, or when the circumstances attending the killing show an abandoned and malignant heart."

The videos available to the public would support a charge for either "no considerable provocation" or a depraved heart. Of course, this will be up to a jury once all of the facts are borne out in trial.

I mentioned this in a prior post, but no one really wanted to deal with this...

So kindly refrain from throwing out terms like "ignorant" and "crazy" when there is a legal basis for the charges that have been filed. It leads to dialoge that strays from the issue at hand. "

" pharper, he was not cuffed and he also was not subdued, he was rocking up and down and may have still been fighting. "

" To everyone questioning me,
I did not say Mr. Grant deserved to die, he certainly did not. What I'm saying is if he and the other people weren't endangering other people on Bart then the police never wouldve had to intervene and this accident wouldn't have happend.
To Raven,

The reason he was cuffed and on the ground was because of the danger he was imposing on people before the officers arrived. What if he was fighting and knocked someone over and they hit there head on a seat rail and died? Or knocked someone on the train tracks and they got ran over and died? Thank god the police got there and were able to detain him before he seriously hurt or killed anyone

To Dwayne,
Anarchy would be no police showing up and Mr. Grant and the others involved in the fight killing each other and maybe taking out some innocent people as well. Good thing we don't live in an Anarchist state and the police were able to get there and stop these guys before they seriously hurt or killed innocent people. He didn't deserve to die, but the shooting was an accident that couldve been avoided if Grant and the others weren't fighting and putting the publics lives in danger "

" Mr. Feasor, the lawyer was paid for not by Johan, or his family. It's paid by statewide fund for police officers. "

" Jeez! Will you "armchair judges" let it go!
What happened to innocent until proven guilty?
Some of you are even passing judgement on his ability to secure legal council.
Let the professionals do their job(which I doubt any of you here are, in this field) and accept the outcome.
I hope all of you will look at it objectively and at the facts, and not
let the "race card" come into play.
Honestly, you must agree:
If it were a black bart cop that shot a black man, there would be no riots or extensive media coverage. "

" ..........just let this thing play out in court....most of you would have already hung the officer and you still don't have ALL the facts!!! "

" MR. Mehserle's attorney is being paid for by a group that p[ays for the defense of COPS , or in this case FORMER COPS ATTORNEY FEES WHEN THEY BLOW IT>special treatment abounds when you are on "that " side of the thin blue line... an average person would be ruined for life financially. "

" Rocketman wrote on Jan 23, 2009 6:45 AM:
" ..........just let this thing play out in court....most of you would have already hung the officer and you still don't have ALL the facts!!! "

Just as a hypothetical, give us any mitigating "facts" that you think would justify the shooting...

A citizen using deadly force, by accident or otherwise, would have been hung by now (figuratively)... A trained police officer must be held to a much higher standard than a citizen, because when such an "accident" occurs it is done under color of authority, and therefore abusive, and a violation of the oath to protect and serve... "

" cellsite and rocketman - I only said that the CHARGE is appropriate, not a CONVICTION. Big difference. That's why I wrote "...this will be up to a jury once all of the facts are borne out in trial."

cellsite [only] - I have never brought out any "card" and have never brought up any issue regarding race here. And finally, who knows? Maybe some of those "professionals" actually roam the NVR comments every once in awhile...

knowbetter - your theory makes sense (given that police officers don't make as much money as world-record baseball players) but do you have any corroborating information on that possibility? I think it is information that the general public should be aware of. "

" Dwayne, From what I saw, (not heard or witnessed), I have no mitigating factors for the officer shooting the victim with his service HANDGUN. Again, this is based on what I saw. But "what if" the officer was so flustered, that he THOUGHT he was using his Taser, which is a less than lethal weapon. What did the officer say, what did the witnessing officers hear; did you see the other officers repel from the victim just before he fired his weapon?? There are MANY unanswered questions......let this play out in court!!! "

" Mike Rains has been around along time. He is a former police officer. To my knowledge, he has about a 99.9% win rate. What that tells me is that he takes cases that "he believes" he can win. If Rains feels that this was an accident, it may be a reason that he took the case. With Mike Rains, EVERY case in NOT about money. IF it was an accident, maybe we just need to let this ALL play out in court. "

" Rocketman, I agree with you, with the continued caveat that trained officers should be held to a higher standard, not coddled and protected by their brothers in blue...

That has always been a problem with the police investigating themselves, with a predictable and common outcome of "justified"...

All I am saying, is that if you are trained and authorized to use deadly force, and you screw up, the consequences must be far worse than a simple "accident"...

Rioting and vandalism is stupid, but those folks feel in their guy there is a track record of cops circling the wagons and making light of something like this...

I still remember the 17-year old kid who was swinging a broom at cops in San Diego, and they shot him dead with 17 bullets, and the internal investigation called it justified because the cops feared for their safety... We all know that's ridiculous, but that's how it stands today...

Public sentiment of this being an "accident" is clearly being manipulated, regardless of whether some feel the young black man should have behaved better...

From the evidence on the video, regardless of what was said afterwards, there was no reason for the officer to reach for a Taser... You are trained not to Tase someone when another officer is touching them, and another officer was holding the kid face down... "

" in re: mr. feasor,
I am not sure which newspaper(online edition) I garnered this information. It was either the Monterey County Herald, the Sac. Bee, L.A. Times, or the San Francisco Chronicle. In addition, this fund is supported by every entity within the state that has "Badge Carrying Peace officers". "

" Dwayne, Yes, and Monday morning quarterbacking on either side does NO GOOD. That's why I have been saying all along............lets hear the WHOLE story before we pass judgement. I don't see any coddling in this case; I disagree with you regarding police investigating themselves.....they are usually harder on cops who screw up then the average citizen would be; I didn't say anything about consequences IF this is an accident; We are not talking about an incident in San Diego, we are talking about this incident that hasn't gone to court; Public sentiment so far is on the side of hanging the officer or putting him in prison for the rest of his life. (without a trial) There is no evidence by the video (alone) that says anything other then the officer fired his duty weapon into the suspect. "

" knowbetter........if the BART Police Officers Association contracted with a law firm for legal defense (like most do), then Mehserle is entitled to the legal defense that is afforded all officers in his union as he WAS a cop at the time of the incident. All cops pay INDIVIDUALLY for this legal benefit. It is paid by no one else. "

" Knowbetter and Mr. Feasor, To clarify, cops have limited protection by cities and counties that they work for. The City and County are interested in protecting their interest in these cases. IE, the BART Police Department will be sued. At times (and most times( this creates a conflict for the agency. That is why cops pay for their own legal representation through contracts with attorney groups. PORAC (Peace Officer Reseach Association of California) is the largest Police Association in the STATE that represents law enforcement on a variety of issues. An example is legal defense where you pay by member of your police union based upon the coverage you are seeking. All of this money goes to the law firm of the Union's choice. (there are several) So these attorney's are on retainer (or contract) with the various unions. Does that answer it?? "

" knowbetter - thanks for the references. I just like to be assured of corroboration, and it is appreciated.

Rocketman - likewise, thanks for the highly detailed explanation. That makes more sense now (and further explains required union fees deducted out of a police officer's salary). Given the amount of immuties that must be pierced to sue a public entity in a civil suit - which is a nightmare for any plaintiff - I did not realize that the union's contract covered attorney fees for criminal charges as well. That is good information to know.

And this raises the next question: aside from law-enforcement employees, how many other unions cover criminal-defense attorney fees for all of its members? That seems a bit one-sided to me, but what do I know?

Dwayne - your 7:18 p.m. comment makes the most sense to me thus far. How can you mix up your right hand with your left one? (police training 101: strong arm side = lethal weapon; weak arm side = taser).

Let's keep the dialogue going, good information is being brought out here! "

" In the Chronicle it stated the union is paying for his defense. He's entilted because he was a union member at the time of the incident. It has nothing to do with special treatment. "

" mytwocents - that was not my point. My question was: how many other UNIONS - not related to law enforcement - cover CRIMINAL-DEFENSE attorney fees for all of its members?

If you have corroborated facts regarding non-law-enforcement unions doing the same, then I would like to know.

I'm not being a smart-aleck here, I really want to know.

Hope to hear from you soon.

Best,

Mr. Feasor "

" Mr. Feasor wrote; "how many other UNIONS - not related to law enforcement - cover CRIMINAL-DEFENSE attorney fees for all of its members?"

I would guess, not many. The simple answer would be; How many other professions have the liability that police officers have??" Split second decesions and they better be right!!

This coverage is NOT cheap and if other professions are rarely charged with criminal or civil actions, it is rare that they would need this type of coverage.

I would imagine, most professions could get the coverage, all you have to do is be willing to pay for it!! "

" in RE : MR FEASOR, My thoughts exactly!!! I belong to a union, and two professional associations. I hold three California Department of Health Services extended level licenses. If I make a "mistake"( Oh! Do I use that Term loosely here) READ " I did not follow the laws, and proper procedure for a given set of circumstances. Then I would undoubtedly be under indictment soon... and if someone died due to my failure to follow reporting and other procedural requirements, I would go to jail... ON MY DIME... No help for my "mistake" would be forthcoming from any of the aforementioned parties. I would have to foot the MASSIVE legal bill on my own. "

" knowbetter.........Unfortunately I am not knowlegable regarding all the professions and their liabilites. If it is of that much concern, perhaps your statewide organization should look into this type of coverage. My understanding is the cops started with a few of the largest agencies years ago and because of this 'base", the smaller agencies were eventually included. If you get my message, it usually takes several agencies for one law firm to make this benefit reasonable to the law firms. If the statewide liability is minimal in your profession (I am not making assumptions here) then perhaps the rates might be reasonable. One firm does NOT represent the cops statewide, there are many. "

" Public sentiment of this being an accident is being manipulated ? Yeah, OK, of course. Sure.

The only public sentiment I see being manipulated is that the BART guy woke up and decided to shoot somebody, and it's being manipulated to get people angry enough to go out and destroy a community. That seems to be the majority opinion. I haven't seen anybody out rioting in support of the BART cop. "

" Just my, very unprofessional, opinion leads me to believe that Rains took this case because (1) a cop is involved and (2) this will be a very "High Profile" court case and we all know that attorneys love the limelight. "

" google two different topics to answer your questions..

Rains Lucia and Stern

PORAC legal defense fund "

" FIRST OFF LOOK AT ALL POINTS OF VIEW ON ALL THE VIDEO'S HE'S NOT CUFFED TILL AFTER HE'S SHOT HE'S NOT COMPLYING HE'S RESISTING ARREST AND REACHING INTO HIS WAISTLINE !!!

And to shed some light on the mistaking a lethal duty/service weapon for less than lethal taser gun the taser is actually mocked after a Glock (same weapon they carry) for training and target accusation/consistency reason's. It also is very similar in weight and size in almost every way accept for the fact the top has a yellow bar.

Also from what I can see if you look at the still frames of the officer right before the incident he's wearing the taser combat style ( opposite side of his firearm grip turned forward toward his gun hand direction ) so both can be grabbed with the same hand he's trained to shoot with easy mistake to make when you think someone is pulling a gun.

Even more so when you consider they were just trained with taser and started using tasers just weeks prior in Dec.!!!

As a matter of fact they didn't have enough for every officer to be issued one so they shared them and didn't always carry them due to that. "