" Nice one sided story. What happened to unbiased opinion "

" So, you're saying they should pay someone else a salary equivalent to that of a full time employee to do something they should already have someone on staff to do?

And so what if the union has someone they pay. It's paid for with UNION DUES, not with TAX PAYER money.

I'm sure even you can see the difference.

Unions aren't the devil.

Don't be hatin. "

" A negotiator is fine with me. The negotiator should be paid minimum wage, plus a percentage of how much they can get back from the Union. If the Union thinks they can get a raise, they are proving they are stupid. If the union thinks they can get by with no pay/bene cut, they are proving they are stupid.

Why pay the negotiator a percentage? The Union rep will no doubt only be trying to get more, so why not pay someone to try to give less... Of course, that makes perfect common sense so it will never happen . "

" Reading this online it is hard to tell - is this an opinion letter, or is Mr. Haley a reporter for the Register? Thanks. "

" srt4gut and martha107:
You found this item by going to the Opinion section. Michael Haley writes a daily and weekly opinion item for NapaValleyRegister.com. He is not a reporter, nor is he paid for what he writes. The opinions he writes are his opinions. "

" I agree with most of what you say NB! However, unions or represented groups also unite in order to be one voice when it comes to rethinking MOU's and/or salaries. It's not always about not trusting management...then again, from my personal experience and perspective, Napa seemed to show past "unfair" practice by management. OR perhaps it was more of the "we'll get ours now and you can wait sort of attitude."

Where I work now I'm in the unrepresented bunch who didn't receive a raise this year due to the economy, but most of the unions still received a 4% pay increase. Sometimes unions are good for that! Then again they also saw a bigger hit in layoffs (we've had two waves thus far). The positive light was that the Fire Depts union passed on their raises in order to save one of their own. Now that's where unions/people were successful in my eyes!

In the long run in this poor economy? The unions need to back off and work with employers during this time or they are going to see more of their people laid off due to lack of funds to spread around. "

" "Union dues", in this case, come from salary paid by taxpayers.

Then rhose same taxpayers get "negotiated" by SEIU representatives with tactics funded by their own tax dollars.

But no new news here. The real story is that the county can't hold its own in negotiations. Beautiful.

Someone call Caldwell, I'm sure he'll figure this out to county taxpayer advantage.... "

" Mr. Hayley,
In any negotiation each side comes in with first, second, third, etc., offers that are negotiated down to a mutually agreeable decision. It does not appear that your side has yet made this effort.

Public employers use tax dollars to pay the HR Director to negotiate. Unions do not have tax dollar monies so, therefore, must hire negotiators, paid for by employee contributions, called union dues. Since you feel your paid Human Resources Director should no longer perform this task then I hope you are willing to reduce his/her salary to compensate for the hire of a negotiator. Tax payers will not be happy if you expect us to pay twice for this.

Let me remind you that it was the hard work of unions that have allowed you your paid vacation time, 8-hour day, 5-day week, child labor laws that prevent your children from employer abuse, maternity leave without penalty (most developed countries allow for paid maternity leave), and your generous amount of sick days.

One does not need to belong to a union to benefit from their historical and current struggles. Yes, most businesses operate without unions but it is the unions that keep them competitive for labor. Get rid of the unions? Sure, it could happen but if it does you must be ready to forfiet your many non-union uxuries because there will no longer be a standard by which non-union employers must adhere to. If you think that all employers in a non-union world would put employee's interest, health, and welfare before the bottom line of profit then you are not well read in history, sociology, psychology, economics, or political science.

Your anger has clearly blurred your thinking. "

" NVR-Dan Ross, you are wrong, I found this on your front page and it confused me, as well. "

" NVR-Dan Ross. You are wrong. They did not go to the opinion page to find this. It's on the fist news page. Maybe you ment it to be on the opinion page, but it isn't. "

" Dan Ross- This article is posted on the front page of the online edition, as if it were a news story. "

" Actually Dan it is on the front page under the news tab under local.. and if I did not know what a hateful person Haley is I would have stopped reading the register instantly. Know what your front page looks like before you respond....

As for Mr. Haley. NOT ALL UNIONS ARE BAD. YOU NEED TO DO MORE HOMEWORK. TRADE UNIONS ARE IMPORTANT TO MAKE SURE THERE IS QUALITY WORK AND TRAINED INDIVIDUALS... HOW ABOUT I SEND A NON-UNION PLUMBER TO FIX YOUR TOILET? THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!!

and no I am not in a union. I work for a private company. I only get 7 paid holidays a year and only 2 weeks of paid leave after 5 years (that is sick and vacation together). and yes I still support most unions.

REGISTER. This should not be in news on the front page. "

" YIKES, as readers pointed out after I posted this, the opinion item was showing up in the News section instead of the Opinion section as it was showing to me ... and yes, this IS an opinion item, now in its proper home. How it ended up under the News banner had to have come from how I uploaded the opinion item
--Dan "

" Double Yikes, people need to actually read what I write. The amount of projecting into what I have written that I did not say is amazing.

I said I have no objections to unions. I did say that I did not like the approach or attitude of this particular union at this particular time.

Negotiations have not started yet, this union is already tellng the other side how they get to operate. No one is telling them they can't have all their paid staff or if they do, that means that they are not negotiating in good faith.

If you want symmetry between the two sides, if the HR Director has to be the negotiator, then the unions should not get to use any of their paid staff either. Let the local rep handle the negotiations as part of his job.

All the money for government employees and therefore all dues that go to the union employees comes from taxpayers.

All taxes that are collected are the result of wealth generated in the private sector. This is something I just mentioned elsewhere the other day, liberals and union supporters don't want to hear that, but it is just a basic economic fact.

Unions have done many good things in our history. No one is disputing that, but that is not the point here. "

" Union membership has dropped to around 12% of the workforce from a high of 36% in the mid-40's's (8% private sector and 37% of public sector). Yet we see no stampede to eliminate accrued worker benefits as so direly predicted above. The description of union impact to the non-union workplace are both overwrought and overstated.

More instructive is the comment regarding the negotiation process of back and forth, wearing down, etc. This is precisely the problem. Ever more and ever bigger "wins" are the union mantra. Endless loops of equivalency to other contracts and other geography creates endless escalation of more money and benefits regardless of ability to pay them.

Unions view everything as negotiation - every rest break, every work process, every hiring and firing process, every nuance of the workday falls into negotiations, grievances or threats of work stoppages.

Just as the parable of the scorpion and the frog suggests, unions reflexively oppose management to further union "wins". This should be no surprise - it is what they exist to do.

What is vexing is the seeming inability or incompetence of elected/appointed officials in countering such a historically well-oiled machine.

Presently Andy Stern and the SEIU sense a grand moment to further unions to health and public sectors as those jobs, unlike manufacturing jobs, cannot be exported.

And with government health care just around the corner, and unions reaching into every corner of the public sector, their newest friends are public officials who at worst collude - and at best are indifferent, to the taxpayer burden. "

" Rob wrote: "What is vexing is the seeming inability or incompetence of elected/appointed officials in countering such a historically well-oiled machine."

Rob, it makes perfect sense. The unions collect money from all their members and give it to the campaigns to get the very officials elected WHO SET THE PAY for the unions.

It's almost incestuous... "

" Rob, all good points and I agree.

What amazes me is the vitriol I get for just criticizing them. I say that they are entitled and aggrieved, and it appears that their supporters are out to prove me right by being so entitled in their comments that they can't even respond to criticism. They just throw insults.

This is the way that elected officials get treated by the unions too, that is the way that the Supervisors got treated at the meeting on Tues. And yet they appear clueless as to how negatively their impact is landing.

They have a right to do whatever they want, and they have a right to make you negotiate the way that they want. This is the behavior of a group that is used to be in complete control. And feel blindly entitled to continue that behavior. "

" Insults? And I am not even on this thread....yet. "

" NB - I'm not sure why Bill is holding back but I'm diving in.

I must take issue with your casual pimping of the discredited 'Friedmanist' idea that everything of economic value comes from the 'private sector'.

Respected economists have published for years about 'public goods' and 'the commons'. For example, a municipal water system produces a 'public good', clean drinking water.

OUR government is not some strange alien life form that landed in a meteorite from space, it is 'elected representatives' that decide how to spend OUR tax money.

It's legit to complain about representatives not doing things the way you'd like -- that's what I do all the time! But pretending that ALL government is ALL evil - ALL the time is foolish.

You have things you want the government to spend money on, sir. Currently you are trying to 'sell' development at Napa Pipe which will cost our citizens tax money.

So EASE UP on the hypocrisy just a bit, eh?

The 'private' sector under George W. Bush's abdication of enforcing even the few regulations he did not emasculate has been rapidly destroying wealth for over a year now.

And who, pray tell are even 'conservative' economists looking at to rescue the economy? The public sector.

Start reading up on the economics of the Japanese 'Lost Decade' and ask yourself if you want America stuck in a 'Liquidity Trap' for 10 years or so before there is an anemic recovery.

As I've said before you often open your mouth and prove how little you understand economics instead of letting us wonder awhile first.

~Ruff "

" too thin skinned right now I'll wait untill NB can chill out a little. "

" Good point. The japanese tried to spend their way out of their recession the same way B.O. wants to try to do. It was a complete failure there and it will be a complete failure here... "

" There is a Japanese union here some place? Are they involved with these negotiations?

Must be a misplaced post. stay on topic, if there is one.

NB some intriguing accusations but I will let you simmer down before I take off. After all you are entitled to your bias and you do show bias.

Protestations of not being outright anti union to the contrary you are caught out by your own words both in your opinion and your posts here and elsewhere.

Polyanna again would be a good place to start especially in your descriptions of unions in your last formal paragraph not post. Is that really how you see the function of unions?

I know adversarial relationship but whats the choice to stand before the Masa hat in hand eyes lowered and beg please oh great manager can I please have a raise the wif is poorly an the chillin's need shoes.

What model would suggest as the adversarial role appears to do you no good.

If you are willing to do a little research and reading you might find that the hated Andy Stern actually proposes a different model and many quite progressive and innovative changes to how unions and management should operate.

A model that includes input by both workers and management. Yes NB workers are also a part of management and ownership no mater how much it is denied. "

" The Repubican-enablers have it wrong about the Japanese 'Lost Decade'.

No surprise, Republicans always get economics wrong because they only read things that can be twisted into another justification of tax cuts for the rich.

I've noticed a lot of Bush economic sewage trickling down but not much else... It's time to call in a SMARTER TEAM.

Once Republicans have created their depression, it's past time to stop listening to their 'voodoo economics' witch doctors.

The Japanese did waste a lot of money, but most of it was wasted keeping zombie failed banks alive, and letting them keep their toxic assets on the books.

The Japanese people lost, the zombie banks won.

Pretty much exactly what 'Pickpocket Paulson' has done... give failed zombie banks lots of money to keep them alive.

Paul Krugman, one economist frightwingnutz love to hate... because he has written fearlessly predicting the meltdown the Bungle Administration was cooking up... does a very good exposition on how Japan failed to get out of its 'Liquidity Trap'.

AND Krugman and other HONEST economists who PREDICTED THE MELTDOWN are writing about how we can get out of OUR 'Liquidity Trap' now.

There's this socalist thing in Napa called a Library...

Any body foolish enough to trust the economy to the Republican cult of 'Friedmanism' and the Reagan worshippers, WHO GOT US INTO THIS MESS, needs to spend more time down at the Library.

A lot more time there...

And not on reading 'ECON101 FOR DUMMIES' either.

~Ruff "

" Krugman was critical of President Bush's billions in deficit spending.

I can't wait to see what he says about B.O.'s "trillion dollar deficits for years to come".

Of course being an avowed Liberal and a supporter of the welfare state, it's easy to predict that he will change his tune and support B.O. regardardless... "

" N.B. where to begin.
I will ignore your most inflammatory, misleading statements and derogatory characterizations. I notice that there were no direct quotes or specific attributions accompanied by a name in your opinion, rather your take on what passed through your specific lens and powers of observation.

Instead a characterization of my own: The perceived necessity of local governmental bodies, for a hired gun.

That is the role of an outside negotiator and there are many reactionary anti union negotiators hired purposely not to achieve the best deal for the public but to diminish the input of unions or break them. It is a historical and unsavory role generally employed when the relationship between employer and employee has soured to the point of no compromise. On many occasions they are trotted out because of an adamant fear of any thing that indicates a need of organization by employees. Is there any wonder why the SIEU rep. should feel the way you describe.

Has the relationship soured to such a level? I haven’t noticed that in the Registers reporting, so either they missed it or I did.

The reason for union’s adversarial relationship is primarily fostered by management. The role of the union is to gain for its members the best wage, benefit and job protection package it is able to secure. You appear to be asking people to give up these packages solely because the private sector does not enjoy them.

It is true that only about 8% of the private sector employees receive any thing approaching the approx. 30% of public employee packages. I would attribute that to the poor skills of organized labor, specifically the AFL-CIO preferring the model of cozy business agent to organizing for the past 50 years. "

" I have a suggestion for negtiations with the union. The county needs the backbone to tell them "OK - here is the dollar amount you have allocated - come up with a plan." This county, along with all the others in CA, are facing massive decreases in income. Everything needs to be reduced, either wages or number of employees and/or amount of services. This NIMBY attitude regarding cuts will not solve the problem. We cannot tax our way out of this either. This recession has created a fiscal atmosphere whereby even what would normally be a small increase - is literally the straw that could break a camels back either for families or corporations. As for my opinion on wages - it's better to take a pay cut than lose the job all together. "

" Michael one more thing. You say this in your blog right after Dan Ross: "This is something I just mentioned elsewhere the other day, liberals and union supporters don't want to hear that, but it is just a basic economic fact. "

Many of us do not know what you mentioned elsewhere. Believe it or not we do not listen to you all the time and you have made an assumption that people know what you mention on another day. Well written items assume that people know nothing about the topic in which you are writing or about you. You make too many assumptions and well we all know what it means to ass_u_me something.

Good luck with your attacks. "