Gang-related stabbing in Napa | Napa Valley Register

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Gang-related stabbing in Napa

Sunday, November 16, 2008

Comment

By KERANA TODOROV
Register Staff Writer

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A man was stabbed in a gang-related attack Friday evening, Napa Police reported Saturday.

The young man, whose name and age were not released, suffered non-life threatening injuries, Napa Sgt. Amy Hunter said Saturday.

The victim and another man were assaulted by two other males at the corner of Kilburn and Chelsea avenues a little before 10 p.m., according to police.

During the fight, the victim was stabbed in the left torso, Hunter said.

He was transported by Piner’s ambulance to Queen of the Valley Medical Center, where he remained hospitalized Saturday, she said.

Napa Police Department’s gang unit is investigating the incident and working on leads, she said.

As of late Saturday afternoon, the two suspects remain at large.

92 comment(s)

mofosheee wrote on Nov 16, 2008 12:38 AM:

" I don't get it, am I the only one under the impression that the Napa Police and Mayor "leaned" upon this newspaper to have the other articles about the recent rash of; stabbings, killings, vandalism, killing dogs etc. removed or suppressed from publishing? "

amigo wrote on Nov 16, 2008 2:12 AM:

" Where is the male leadership?

Someone show these kids there is more to life than beating each other up. "

jpcrash wrote on Nov 16, 2008 2:22 AM:

" if the suspects are known then why aren't their some pictures with the article "

jwk wrote on Nov 16, 2008 3:55 AM:

" Wonder what nationality they were and who gets to pay that $30 to $50K Hospital bill. Any bets?? Hey but they vote Democrat so it's all good.. "

leavintown wrote on Nov 16, 2008 7:25 AM:

" Anyone that has a police scanner, knows that half of all the crimes that go on in Napa never get put in the NVR paper. The tourist wouldn't want to come here if they knew about all the bad things that go on around here. You don't hear about East Oakland being a hot tourist spot. "

matt68 wrote on Nov 16, 2008 8:08 AM:

" There's no conspiracy. Gimme a break! "

MarshaMarsha wrote on Nov 16, 2008 9:00 AM:

" SHHHHH!!! mofosheee!

Keep that up, and you're going to have the tall thin men in black suits with sunglasses and earbuds staked around your neighborhood.

Be sure to hang thick blankets over your windows so they can't see inside. Booby-trap your garbage. Don't eat the green stuff. Never walk a direct route to your destination. Don't forget your copy of "Catcher In The Rye".

We're all with you on this. Really. "

notpc wrote on Nov 16, 2008 9:53 AM:

" to mofosheee, your so cynical...not. I have heard so many excuses about the gang problem that we do not have in Napa. Nothing from the Mayor, milk toast comment from the Chief of Police and yes it all points to the suppression of the real reality of the gang violence in Napa. Oh yeah supposedly the other lame excuse is that gangs in Napa are not like gangs in Oakland and Richmond. Thats la la land mentality at its best. What a shame that all the time and money spent on trying to make downtown a destination spot may ruined by thugs that have no respect for anyone or anything. "

BiLly wrote on Nov 16, 2008 9:55 AM:

" this paper is doing this community a disservice. For example, the slashed tires,oven cleaner the stabbings (how many at Downtown Joe's this year?)etc. are stories that are not followed up on until of course another incident services so we can "forget " about the last one.
Sad and the city of Napa and NPD are doing a HORRIFIC job in this community. Lackluster effort and bad if any enforcement. Then you have a DA that spends he resources on old men assaulting each other....PATHETIC. The problems will continue to get worse and the paper will report some of it and what they report will never be followed up on... the NVR is almost as lazy as the NPD....there are 2 "F"'s in effortl "

napabandit wrote on Nov 16, 2008 10:09 AM:

" The problem is more widespread than anyone wants to admit. I live very close to the last reported stabbing. I wonder who is paying the hospital bills. They come here, stab each other and we pay for the medical care, food stamps, and will soon be bailing out the mortgages they can't afford. "

steph wrote on Nov 16, 2008 11:40 AM:

" Bill the gang members for their hospital stays. If they can't pay, put them to work until they pay it off. "

mamawana wrote on Nov 16, 2008 12:23 PM:

" Here's an idea...how about putting the faces of known gang affiliates on the front page of the news papers, bulletin boards, schools, anywhere the public can see them....humiliate and publicize them so that people can watch their activities and report them at the first sign of trouble....then kick their sorry asses out of Napa, to wherever they came from. Enough is enough, Napa is no longer a safe place to live, I don't care what color your skin is! At least it's a start for the good citizens of Napa to take back their town! "

napanana wrote on Nov 16, 2008 12:27 PM:

" Gang related? How can it be Gang related if there aren't any gangs in Napa?
Maybe it was just another one if those random attacks that don't happen very often around good old safe Napa....... "

bloodagar wrote on Nov 16, 2008 12:43 PM:

" Hey Napa Register!
Why don't you do the community a favor of a Napa Police Log like St. Helena and Calistoga?
Please keep us informed with just the facts as they happen! "

littlered56 wrote on Nov 16, 2008 12:54 PM:

" I wonder how long violent criminal acts would be allowed in the Mayors neighborhood in the city council members??
Why can't the gangs be charges under the Ricco laws??? "

notpc wrote on Nov 16, 2008 2:05 PM:

" To all who have commented, just remember how many comments you will hear from the Mayor and the Police Chief regarding another gang related incident. Their silence is deafening. If you think their lack of a strategic plan to put a 'big hurt' on these gangbanger thugs is wrong then its time for the decent citizens to start voicing their contempt at city hall. When is it going to stop? "

littlered56 wrote on Nov 16, 2008 4:45 PM:

" Dear Editor,
Several years ago(with in 12 years) the St. Paul, MN newspaper printed a 2 page article on the logal gangs here. Every gang member who had been arrested and convicted of a violent crime got their pictures in the paper, plus their addresses and all family members who were also in gangs. It was a very indepth article abouut violance. Trust me it work.. people woke up. Today St.Paul MN has one of the most sucessful gang task force. And if my memory serves me correct the court up held the newspaper could not be sued cause it was all a matter of public records.
I hate to see this going on in Napa and I know it is going to take a rude awaking to budge the city on Napa into reality. The good people of Napa need help about this evil spreading over your community "

REALITY101 wrote on Nov 16, 2008 5:09 PM:

" It's so sad to see how racism plays in all this...instead of us as humans being sadden by whats really going on with the youth here in napa you are all concentratin on race...sad and useless "

Winewoman wrote on Nov 16, 2008 7:09 PM:

" Geez, a little shy on details in this report, eh? With 2 stabbing suspects on the loose in Napa, wouldn't it be helpful to publish descriptions? Or should we let our imaginations run wild? I like Mamawana and littlered56's comments about publishing gang member photos and names in the paper. Publish it, let the community humiliate and harrass them and get those nasty gang members out of this town! I'm in. "

Dirty Napkin wrote on Nov 16, 2008 7:11 PM:

" Ask Harry Martin to publish all their photos.. He did it to the sexual preditors in the valley. That was a great story. I knew a few people on the list, that were common people who you see every day. It was an eye opener. "

Dirty Napkin wrote on Nov 16, 2008 7:13 PM:

" Hey Napa Register!
Why don't you do the community a favor of a Napa Police Log like St. Helena and Calistoga?
Please keep us informed with just the facts as they happen! "

I like this idea too, so Ill just re-post it. "

Dwayne wrote on Nov 16, 2008 7:21 PM:

" Gangs...??? There ain't no gangs in Napa.... Zero, nada, none.....

Common tourist's, walk the streets in Napa at night and see for yourself... The NPD and the Mayor say that it's perfectly safe... (snicker)...... "

littlered56 wrote on Nov 16, 2008 8:09 PM:

" Just for the record I have grandchildren of mixed race they are my family and loved dearly.
Being in a gange and comitting violent crimes has nothing to do with racisum.
There are very good young people in our communities. Somehow they manage to go through their young lives with out committing violant crimes.
People should be informed of who these gang members are and where they live...if it embarrased them well that is too bad. "

notpc wrote on Nov 16, 2008 8:39 PM:

" to reality 101- You need a new title because you refuse to accept reality. Who cares what the race is. Lets just get rid of all the gangbanger thugs and let the law abiding, responsible citizens live in peace. If the majority of gangbangers in Napa happen to be hispanic is that our fault? I not only want to get rid of them but I would love to see all the caucasian, black, asian and any other gangbanger of any race go away. So quit throwing out the race card, that excuse is passe'. In case you haven't heard this racist country just elected a new president. Start thinking of new excuses for hoodlums. Hope you don't become one of their next victims. "

kdbk wrote on Nov 16, 2008 11:10 PM:

" As USUAL, there is no physical description of the suspect(s). This political correctness thing is really just too much. Are you serious? You won't publish descriptions of violent offenders in our community as to enhance the chances of them being caught? Is that not just irresponsible in the extreme?

Some day the people of this nation will finally be fed up with political correctness. Sure, we're not there yet as a whole, but the day will come when this utter madness just goes too far. It will basically be when enough people have been impacted, which from this point, is only a matter of time. "

Winewoman wrote on Nov 17, 2008 12:35 PM:

" NVR,
Please publish the Napa Police Log. I've asked before - you said that you publish the crime map. I think you can see that there is community interest in a Napa Police Log. "

REALITY101 wrote on Nov 17, 2008 6:15 PM:

" to notpc...u miss understood what i was commenting on..i was commenting on ppls comments who always assume that ALL gangbangers are hispanic, the truth of the matter is there are equal amount of caucasion gangbangers as there is hispanic the only difference is you only hear about the hispanic gangbangers because the DA's office dont prosecute the caucasion gangbangers or publish articles about them either,, i'm with everyone else we need to get rid of gangs in napa county and as things are now, it seems like it's getting worst...it's fustrating and scary to think that napa is not a safe place to raise ur kids... something needs to be done the NPD needs to try other tactics because what they have been doing the last 12 years is NOT working "

Winewoman wrote on Nov 17, 2008 7:38 PM:

" Reality101, Are you kidding? You said, "there are equal amount of caucasion gangbangers as there is hispanic the only difference is you only hear about the hispanic gangbangers because the DA's office dont prosecute the caucasion gangbangers or publish articles about them either". Clearly you are not grounded in reality, Reality. Here is a reality check. There is no conspiracy and there are no commies hiding under every rock. "

NVR-Dan Ross wrote on Nov 18, 2008 1:40 PM:

" mofoshee:
What articles are you no longer able to find on this Web site? Be specific and if you can't find them from searching the archives, I'll be happy to point you to where they are. Admittedly, the archives here can be a pain to use
--Dan "

JimClark wrote on Nov 18, 2008 3:38 PM:

" Gang is an ugly word that the ACLU gloms onto.

If someone chooses to dress as a "Gang banger", they must be discouraged from what that uniform represents.
It seems these miscreants offer up their rights when they decide to become or fashion themselves as become criminal. There are limits. "

cellsitegod wrote on Nov 19, 2008 6:10 AM:

" Winewoman;
Yea, I've seen alot of white gangbangers with 707 on their neck.
Cmon, you need the reality check.
We have an illegal immigration/culture problem in this valley.
I'll bet if you go back and get the statistics (if there were any done). A large percentage of these "gang bangers" are "Anchor babies" from illegal parents.
When are people going to realize these people are taking over our once older cute quiet neighborhoods and turning them into little hispanic ghetto’s full of crime?
I'm not being a racist, I'm being a realist.
Who wants to raise a family and pay better than average real estate prices to live in this environment?
My friends are afraid to let their kids walk 4 blocks to school because they have 10 bucks and a cell phone!
Soon the city of Napa is going to nothing but a "Tourist Trap" with low income people living in it.
WAKE UP NAPA! "

cellsitegod wrote on Nov 19, 2008 5:48 PM:

" Correction,
I did not mean Winewoman.
I meant "Reality101" with the supposed "leet" language.
I've yet to see a caucasian gangbanger in Napa.
Rare breed "

GrapetownBankerBoi707 wrote on Nov 19, 2008 7:53 PM:

" cellsitegod- you have yet to see a white gangbanger in napa because you have no idea what goes on in napa and you have no idea what you are looking for! one of the most dangerous gangs in napa for a LONG time until the last two or three years was an ALL-WHITE GANG that claimed green. of course, they didnt always dress in green. you wouldn't necessarily know that they even were a gang-member unless you knew what to look for. there is not only A white gang in napa, there are MANY white gangs in napa. there is even a small blood/crip population that lives in napa but operates outside of napa. there is also a smaller population of asain gang-activity in napa. you do not work with gang-members on even a semi-regular basis (obviously by ur posts) and you seem to not even interact with youth at all!

Also, you show your true lack of knowledge about gangs in general, not just napa by assuming that all of them are youth. do you realize that in napa alone, probably 30-60% of gang-members are over the age of 25. they are in YOUR generation! napa is not turning out the way that you are making it out to be and you DISGUST me with the filth that comes out of your mouth (or keyboard as the case may be)! i have said it so many times before and I hope that this time it does not fall on deaf ears (or eyes, or whatever):

LEARN ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE YOU POST SOMETHING! you are only making yourself look more idiotic and racist. "

GrapetownBankerBoi707 wrote on Nov 19, 2008 7:55 PM:

" also, there are just as many if not more white people in napa with 707 tatted (tattoo-ed) on them. you may not see them, but they are there. that is NOT a gang-related thing as has been stated before. however, if it were, (as you keep trying to so strongly push) then that would mean there are just as many if not more white gangbangers in town as latinos. "

jonb3333 wrote on Nov 19, 2008 8:08 PM:

" The law should read:

If you are a known gang member then gang member = DEATH PENALTY.
END OF STORY!!!

When is our country going to fight the war here!!!???
Oh yeah when us as citizens stand up and fight back.
Then they'll arrest us as vigilantes.
Just for protecting ourselves and the ones we love. For doing the right thing. "

GrapetownBankerBoi707 wrote on Nov 19, 2008 8:58 PM:

" jonb3333- it is that exact attitude that will not only help the gang world to survive, but to make the situation even more dangerous and volatile!

these gang-members are people, too! it is because of the mis-handling of the gang problems by your generation and the generation before that the gang problem has not only persisted, but worsened!

in order to stop gang-violence, we need to step away from the end result and punishment approach! you are simply being lazy and codemning them for doing what you set them up to do! we tell these kids from a young age that they are not good enough, that they will never fit in society and that they are useless/worthless! we allow them to be singled out and picked on to the point where they don't know where to run. then while we have our backs turned to the gangs stand towards them and offer them a different outlook on life: they tell them that they are good enough, that they can succeed if they fight for it. they tell them to fight for their spot in the world and they offer them protection against anyone else who tries to knock them down (especially us). when they have trouble or fail in school, we desert them and tell them they are stupid. then when they get into a fight at school whether they attacked or were being attacked, we expell them! We don't approach them in a respectful way, so why should they respect us and our laws? it is people like you that have turned it into a fight of US vs. THEM! We set them up in this environment and then punish them when they do what we set them up to do. "

109823 wrote on Nov 19, 2008 9:34 PM:

" Banker Boy, I don't give a squat whose in what gang or if they have tatoos or if they're Hispanic or white. All I know is when I was growing up in this town and when I raised my kids here there wasn't the gang violence that's here today and to me it's directly related to the rapidly increasing Hispanic population. So give me statistics that dispute that. I'm reading most wanted lists, percentages of prison inmates and newspaper articles related to gang activity. "

notpc wrote on Nov 19, 2008 10:01 PM:

" to[grapetownbankerboi707- I don't know what kind of agenda your pushing with regards to gangs in Napa. But before you start calling other people ignorant I just want to remind you of your ignorant comment you made about how gangs in Napa are not like gangs in Oakland . You are full of bull. If you are a victim of a gang initiation shooting or stabbing , which I still believe is the case in the downtown incident, than how does that make Napa gangs different? And sorry to hurt your feeling but the majority of gangbangers in Napa are hispanic. So quit trying to put a spin on the issue. "

GrapetownBankerBoi707 wrote on Nov 20, 2008 9:36 AM:

" notpc, do you truly believe that gangs in Napa are the same as the ones in East LA, the Bronx, Oakland, etc? there is a world of difference.

I have no agenda to push per se. I am just tired of hearing the same old scapegoat! I am tired of hearing from people who think they know what they are talking about when they dont! do you know why bloods on the west coast initially started calling bloods on the east coast a fake version of themselves? because they started attacking "neutrals" or "innocents" as they are called here. those are people who are not gang-related in any way. in much the same way, the norteño gang does not attack "innocents" and neither do the sureños. their gang initiations involve a "beat in". meaning, they are beat on by other members of their gang for 14 seconds and 13 seconds respectively. if a norteño or sureño gang member does attack an innocent it is because of a non gang-related incident. one thing that i had typed in another post that wasnt posted is that for a LONG time in Napa one of the most dangerous gangs was an ALL WHITE gang that claimed green. you wouldn't know they were because they typically didn't wear green. you wouldnt ever know they were gang-members. that gang settled down a bit over the past couple of years. but they were the dominant gang besides the Norteños at Napa High.
I am not trying to promote anything except an open mind. i am tired of people talking about gangs when they don't know how the gangs in napa operate and they keep trying to suggest the same solution which has failed time and again over the last 30 years! "

GrapetownBankerBoi707 wrote on Nov 20, 2008 9:44 AM:

" if you want evidence of what I have said regarding the bloods comments, refer to the history channel's "Gangland" episode on United Blood Nation. "

NVR-Dan Ross wrote on Nov 20, 2008 9:57 AM:

" bloodgar and dirty napkin:
Just read the weekly crime map here online, with the block-by-block listing of the incidents reported, it is pretty easy to follow. You want a crime log, there it is for you, illustrated for you too!
Thanks "

NVR-Dan Ross wrote on Nov 20, 2008 9:59 AM:

" We just completed a three-day series on gangs in Napa, and we run the Most Wanted each week. The gang member photo idea is an interesting one ... one to definitely take a look at how to effectively put something together "

formerNPD wrote on Nov 20, 2008 11:13 AM:

" Ten years ago I was a member of NPD and we had formed a small but good anti-gang unit. Shootings and other gang related crime dropped drastically within a year of its formation. As usual, funding was cut and there were not enough cops to work the unit. soon, it was disbanded. Now, crime seems to be getting bad again.

There are many factors involved, but to be so harsh with NPD without an understanding of what they do on a daily basis is going too far. I am still in Law Enforcement and crime is evident everywhere. The police can't bear all the blame; it is a society wide issue.

I wish I had the answer to this problem, but I don't. To prevent violence starts in the home, and the state of our familes these days gives me little hope. "

kracker wrote on Nov 20, 2008 11:40 AM:

" Bankerboy, how do you suggest we fix the gang problem, you seem to have vast knowledge on the subject? Im guessing a hug or some program right! WRONG!!! Make life miserable for them, arrest at will, and when possible deport them. You attacking people on here spouting your "Ganlgand" jibberish is not fixing anything. Being you are in the know, give an educated suggestion to curb the violence. "

steph wrote on Nov 20, 2008 2:37 PM:

" Dan, be careful. It might be an accomplishment to attain NVR publicity as a gang member.

"Scowl menacingly for the camera!"

Don't do it. Don't give them the status they so crave. "

steph wrote on Nov 20, 2008 2:44 PM:

" Hey, I think Bankerboi makes some really good points, guys, and he's a good writer who we should listen to.
There are programs in Napa that work--look at the letter to the editor today 9/20/08 about the Puertas Abiertas program and the youth soccer program that is run on a shoestring budget by a Napa HERO.
As for Hispanics being "the problem" I think that's short-sighted, given the large population of white gang members. But you know what the most common thread is?
Fatherlessness.
Our young people need better educations and guidance. Young women need to be taught to not give their bodies over to men who don't care about them, and they need to learn not to glamorize single motherhood. Most single mothers will tell you that raising children alone is HARD and HAZARDOUS. Too bad more little girls don't understand this--to the detriment of their beloved children who grow up angry. "

cellsitegod wrote on Nov 20, 2008 6:36 PM:

" There are some really great points on future prevention.
What are we going to do now?
We need to show these current gang members that Napa won't put up this crap.
These kids are beyond programs, hugs, and good upbringing.
I'd really like for somebody to show me proof on current "white gangs" in Napa.
You can't tell me the recent explosion of Hispanic's living in Napa hasn't been a direct result in increased gang activity.
Between the ten fold of illegals pouring into this country and the increase of section 8 housing. Napa's low income population has also increased more than any other.
And who pays for it?
Our safety
Our kids safety
Our property prices
Our Small town atmoshere. "

GrapetownBankerBoi707 wrote on Nov 20, 2008 6:58 PM:

" jonb3333/kracker- it is that exact attitude that will not only help the gang world to survive, but to make the situation even more dangerous! it is because of the mis-handling of the gang problems by your generation that the gang problem has not only persisted, but worsened!
in order to stop gang-violence, we need to step away from the end result and punishment approach! you are simply being lazy and codemning them for doing what you set them up to do! we tell these kids from a young age that they are not good enough, that they will never fit in society and that they are useless/worthless! we allow them to be singled out and picked on to the point where they don't know where to run. then while we have our backs turned the gangs offer them a different outlook on life: they tell them that they are good enough, that they can succeed if they fight for it. they tell them to fight for their spot in the world and they offer them protection against anyone else who tries to knock them down. when they have trouble or fail in school, we desert them and tell them they are stupid. then when they get into a fight at school, we expell them! We don't approach them in a respectful way, so why should they respect us and our laws? it is people like you that have turned it into a fight of US vs. THEM!
stop taking the easy way out. that doesn't solve anything. we have had gangs in napa for over 30 years. our entire approach has been to punish them after the deed. what good has that done? nothing. it has caused more deaths, more pain and made the problem worse ever. "

GrapetownBankerBoi707 wrote on Nov 20, 2008 6:59 PM:

" kracker/others- many of the gang-members that i have talked to are very good people. they have hopes and dreams and they work very hard. they make bad desicions and grew up in an area where it has been made necessary to join a gang to survive. we need to stem this problem where it starts, not just trim back the tops when they get out of line. your generation planted this seed. time to fix what you broke!.......THE RIGHT WAY!" "

GrapetownBankerBoi707 wrote on Nov 20, 2008 7:07 PM:

" FormerNPD- if your post was in any way directed at me, let me just tell you where i am coming from and in a way apologize. I do not mean anything against ALL of NPD. however, when there are members of NPD (former and current) who admit that there is a lot of problems and corruption in the dept, it is a little hard to not criticize them. when i have had many friends illegally arrested or been singled out, its hard to not criticize. when i go to starbucks and see three cops sitting there before i even get there, and still sitting there laughing and enjoying themselves when i leave 2 hours later, its hard to criticize. when i see people be pulled over simply because of race, age or the car they are driving (all three of which happened to me in ONE incident), it is hard to criticize. when i hear a police description of a suspect that doesnt include ANYTHING that could help other than height, weight and age, it is hard to criticize. when i am walking in the park on a sunday afternoon at 1pm downtown and i am searched by a cop because i am wearing red laces (no other gang colors at all. just red laces), it is hard to criticize. my grandma worked for NSIB. I have friends' parents who work for the sheriffs. I have four cousins who are cops in NY and my ex-girlfriend's 2 cousins are cops on NPD. for all of the good officers in town who do their job, Thank you and none of my words of criticizm and disgust are aimed at you. to the rest: i mean each and ever word! "

napawatcher wrote on Nov 21, 2008 4:20 AM:

" Grapetownbankerboi707,
What a crock!
Where is Napa so bad that you have join a gang to survive?
This is not East LA!
No,
My generation didn't "plant the seed"
All my friends my age are hard working people and they take care of their kids.
Maybe the problem is these "Anchor babies" The parents keep "churning them out" because they know the more they have, the more free money they get and the longer they can stay.
Free to them, more taxes for us! "

notpc wrote on Nov 21, 2008 9:49 AM:

" to: napawatcher, You are right on. grapetownbankerboi707 is living in another world. Some people just have to learn the hard way. "

winghunter wrote on Nov 21, 2008 4:32 PM:

" Grapetownbankerboi707... You still have yet to say what would stop this gang problem, I don't think turning our heads is the answer. As formerNPD stated, when we had a hard hitting task force the gang problems declined and when it was cut (turn your head method) the crimes started to rise again. You say that these kids grow up in areas where they are forced to join a gang, other than reducing gang numbers and heavy police presence what do you suggest to help stop the kids from joining?
I am sorry that you got pulled over or searched in a park once or twice for looking like a gang member, I think that is what we need more of to let the gang banger know we are looking for them and their weapons. It was not "my" generation (what ever that is) that planted the seed, it is these punks who choose to join a gang and commit crime that is the problem.
You seem to have vast knowledge of gang life and are very supportive of their lifestyle, where you or are you currently in a gang? If so that would explain allot. "

GrapetownBankerBoi707 wrote on Nov 22, 2008 11:15 AM:

" there are parts of napa where it aint necessarily East LA but it is definitely gang-infested to the point where if you don't join a gang growing up, you are most likely gonna get hurt. over in the Westwood area like by laurel street, if you are mexican and walking down the block as a teenager, you are automatically asked what gang you bang for. answer wrong and you'll end up beat up or stabbed or shot. it's the same in parts of east napa, southblock, and other areas. there are a lot more stabbings and crimes committed than what is reported in the paper. and not every stabbing and crime in the paper is gang-related.

innocent kids go to school and because the people they grew up hanging out with in the neighborhood are all bangin or because they have family members who bang, the schools wont believe that they aren't gang-related. so then the schools turn a blind eye to them and punish them for being in a gang they arent even in. they get jumped at school and the school says its their fault for being in a gang and suspends them. by the time they get to high school they mostly join a gang for protection that the schools and community wont provide them. then when they get in a fight (whether they are in a gang or not) they are expelled for a gang fight! what message does that give them? what options does that give them except to join a gang?

notpc- i have learned the hard way. i've lost friends to gang wars and i have worked with gang-members in town and outside of town. i have also worked to keep kids out of gangs. i bet you havent "

GrapetownBankerBoi707 wrote on Nov 22, 2008 11:27 AM:

" napawatcher- are you sure that your friends' kids aren't into something dangerous? do you/they watch them every minute of everyday? because that is about what it would take. do you realize how many kids in town are doing thizz and coke and other horrible drugs? do you realize how many kids go out and drink multiple times a week? do you realize how many kids go out and have sex, many times with people they dont know or hardly know? do you know how many kids are in gangs without their parents ever knowing? sometimes the signs arent so obvious or the kids are good at hiding it. they'll change clothes after they leave or wear a big, baggy shirt of a red belt with a 14 on it. or they wont wear any gang-related colors, but still wear the traditional gang attire so others know they are in one. a lot of times they show their affiliations in very subtle hidden ways. for instance they will lace their shoes a certain way no matter the color laces. or i remember when i was in 7th and 8th grade, kids would shave 4 or 3 small lines into their eye-brows. its gotten even more subtle than that nowadays. also, its not just latinos in these latino gangs anymore. they accept members of other races too. so how do you know your white kid isnt in a latino gang? or your black kid?

your generation set up the environment and the education system and the economy in a way that forces these kids into this lifestyle. YOUR generation caused this problem. do you really think that people 18 and under really developed this problem into what it has become? nope. its been brewing for decades. "

kracker wrote on Nov 22, 2008 4:31 PM:

" Bankerboi, I applaud the police for harrassing gang bangers. Looks like a rat , smells like a rat, its probally a rat. I dont care about their civil rights either. They should be treated as the terrorists they are. You say its my fault? Typical liberal comment. Fix your own problems at home, or the PD will take care of it. There are plenty of kids in this town that come from poor, broken homes that CHOSE to do right by there community. "

grape wrote on Nov 22, 2008 8:30 PM:

" Is it racism to notice that the gangs here are of hispanic background? It shouldn't be racist but unfortunately the hard cold facts are this is a part of the mexican youth culture now. As the Mexican population has grown in the US the gangs have grown and spread out.

Being in a gang should be cause enough for a crime and arrest. This needs to be stopped. "

anticommie wrote on Nov 23, 2008 11:31 AM:

" Grapetown-

Quit the bleeding heart theories. One of the biggest problems about trying to "cure" the gang problem, is that a lot of the kids DONT WANT TO CHANGE. They idealize the very lifestyle they are a part of. Some of these kids do change, and they "drop out," but the lifestyle continues to follow them. I believe that society as a whole needs to change, but the problem starts at home. I have no problem with locking these people into jail or prison. In jail, there are programs that can help change a young person's life around, the problem is, they DONT WANT TO CHANGE. Once someone is found guilty of a gang enhancement charge, some of their rights should be removed, forever. Some of these gang members look forward to going to prison, because that is where their higher education of gang learning takes place. So in my opinion, once in prison isolate them in individual cells that are half the size they are granted under Title 24 and let them stay in there 23 hours a day. Once they are let out keep them under heavy watch, until they regain their responsibilities as members of a society. Other than that, we could try to persuade them at an early age in schools, which we do, but that wont always work. We will always have gang problems, it will never go away. There will always be a group of people that enjoy and envy that lifestyle. Just watch VH1 or BET. "

GrapetownBankerBoi707 wrote on Nov 24, 2008 6:10 PM:

" for the record, i wrote a reply, but NVR won't post it. "

notpc wrote on Nov 24, 2008 8:23 PM:

" grapetownbankerboi707- Keep up your assumptions. I am not looking for any kudos, but I have over 30 years of picking up after these poor gangbangers. And quite frankly I only care about the innocent law abiding citizens that get hurt or killed by these leeches on society. We all make choices and my choice is to say enough is enough, Lets stop making excuses for these thugs because Napa is on the cusp of losing control of our destiny if the hierarchy of Napa Police doesn't take control of this town. Gangbangers only respect power. Who has it? "

dONTwORRY wrote on Nov 25, 2008 2:10 PM:

" >Grapetownbankerboi707< U KNOW WHAT UR TALKING ABOUT, DONT LET ANY OF THESE PEOPLE GET THE BEST OF YOU.
The whole time reading their comments were making me laugh here at work cuz they have no idea what they are talking about. && i bet there all older people.
Let me giveyou all some knowledge not trying hate but tryna open your minds, instead of being so hard headed. Go read a book about gangs i'll give u some titles. _"My Bloody Life", "Once a king always a king", && The War of the blonds in my vains. _
Yeah or watch the The History Channel
GANGLANDS!
Or Actually take some time And try and go out there and talk to these gang members. Instead of writing commetns,. wheres that even getting you??? mmm. yeah i wonder....
>109823< U Should FOR SURE Not Leave Comments if you dont even know how to prove a POINt of someone wrong.

>Kracker< U got to stop hating and be mature. i bet i'm the youngest one here and Know about the Gangs here in Town best && turst me everywhere u go theres going to Be GANGS, Their like DRUGS, AS bad as people Complaine There never going Away. Get it through your head, Instead of being so Negative About it, You should think about doing something positive About Gangs. Throwing them in jail isn't going to solve the Problem. "

GrapetownBankerBoi707 wrote on Nov 25, 2008 6:52 PM:

" in reply to winghunter- i'm sorry, i did not see your post, so i never commented back to it.

where exactly in my posts have i said that i support gang-activity? please, i beg of you, to show me where i said that. i won't even wait for a response because you won't find one. all i have ever done is spoken out against a futile effort that this town is using to attempt to curb gang-related violence. i'm sorry if you don't want to hear the painful truth that what we have been doing for the past 30 or more years has not worked. but all i have received in response to my suggestions is attacks! I simply stated that we are going about this the wrong way! I work with these gang-members all the time. i work to keep kids out of gangs. I have stated that time and time again in my posts. get that through your closed-minded head! don't tell me that the older generation didn't create the situation we are in! do you really think that 6, 7, 8 year old kids etc. have set up an intricate crime web all by themselves? do you really think that kids of that age are responsible for the environments that they grew up in which encourage them to join gangs? our society has failed these kids and these young adults! now its time for society to fix its mistake.....the right way!

as for looking like a gang-member? i'm sorry that i decided to wear red shoe laces on all white shoes as the store sold them to me. i guess that makes me a gang-member then? so does anyone who wears red or blue automatically look like a gang-member now? "

109823 wrote on Nov 25, 2008 7:29 PM:

" dONTwORRY, you said "U should FOR SURE Not Leave Comments if you don't even know how to prove a point of someone wrong." I'll try to decypher your attempt at putting me in my place and respond. I wasn't trying to prove anyone WRONG just stating my observations of how gang violence has grown from vertually non-existence to frequent front page exposure and this has coincided with the population increase of the Hispanic community. Any arguments? "

GrapetownBankerBoi707 wrote on Nov 25, 2008 8:21 PM:

" 109823- do you really think that every crime has been posted in NVR? look at all the comments in every story asking about why something wasn't reported? look at the statement by police in a different article that talks about how one vet police officer remembers a weekend where there were 10 people stabbed or shot in one weekend. wake up! this has been like this for a long time! and there are still many many many crimes that go un-reported in NVR! dont rely on NVR as your sole or even primary source of information. i'm not coming down on you for stating your observation. i am simply stating your observation is very, very narrow and very, very false. instead of rising up the masses against the already oppressed latino population, try finding out the truth. even NPD will admit that at least half if not more of all crimes, especially violent crimes, in napa are committed by white people. look at all the people shot and killed in napa by whites that were not gang-related. there was the teacher. there was the guy out on 4th avenue. there was the guy who killed those two women, etc. etc. yet you quickly forget about them and instantly jump on latinos! gangs have been in napa for well over 30 years. when i was a kid, we had a WHITE GUY come and talk to us about them as a former gang-banger. he bashed some guy's head in with a baseball bat. latino gangs have been around just as white gangs have been in napa for a long time. the only difference is that now NVR and NPD have decided to start publicly acknowledging that there is a problem and therefore there is coverage of SOME of it. "

109823 wrote on Nov 25, 2008 9:25 PM:

" Banker Boy, I guess you're going to be the spokesperson for dONTwORRY, I understand that there's other violent crimes in Napa. There has been and will continue to be outside of gang associations. I stand by my beliefs, beit narrow minded or tunnel vision. The prominence of gang violence and gang activity is directly related to the Hispanic community as it stands right now.You talk of "a long time" I'm not sure what you consider to be a long time but I've lived in this community for 60 years, have grown up in the school systems, raised my children going to the same schools and lastly have coached at different high schools in the areas for close to 20 years. So I know a little bit about what goes on and what has gone on for some time. This may not qualify, in your very gang oriented mind, for knowing anything but I stand by my beliefs, as you do. "

notpc wrote on Nov 25, 2008 10:32 PM:

" to:109823, You speak the truth. Unfortunately in todays world we have to come up with some sort of psycho-babble as an excuse for why some people can't live by the rules of society.The facts are that hispanics make up the majority of the gang problems in this county. "

GrapetownBankerBoi707 wrote on Nov 25, 2008 10:56 PM:

" ok 109823 so you have been in the community for a long time. when i say long time, i mean the past 30 years or so. thats how long the latino gangs have been in napa and that's how long most white gangs have been in napa (actually they have been in it longer). did you know that napa had one of the last KKK chapters in the west? that was long before latinos. they were/are a gang. did you know that there are mafia members in napa? straight from sicily. i know people that have been in town just as long as you and they would not agree with you. not even NPD will agree with you. and they are the ones on the front line with the crime everyday (sometimes). "

GrapetownBankerBoi707 wrote on Nov 25, 2008 10:58 PM:

" notpc- is that why the majority of napa's most wanted are white? "

GrapetownBankerBoi707 wrote on Nov 25, 2008 11:01 PM:

" this was supposed to be posted before my reply to winghunter:

to dontworry- thanks for the support. however, as unfortunate as it may seem, it is absolutely pointless and useless to try and get these people to see anything. yes, you and I know what it is like. You and i work with these people everyday and I am assuming you, like me, grew up with it surrounding you. you understand how they operate and have a good idea of how we can at least make the situation better. because as you so truthfully stated: gangs will never go away. it is in our DNA as humans to have gangs.

however, talking to this group is pointless. kracker, notpc, winghunter, and all the rest will continue to sit on their computers, whining and complaining about all the "young punk gang-bangers out there who should get the death penalty". they will never go out into their community and actually take the necessary actions to curb this violence. they will never actually talk with these gang-members and try to understand why they do what they do. they will never read a book on it (not that most books on gangs can be trusted as true), they will never watch t.v. shows on it (about the same in terms of reality), they will never do anything but sit on their uppity rear ends and complain about it all. they will simply always continue to drown out the voice of reason and experience.

it is doing this community a much greater service for those of us who know the truth to work on fixing them problem ourselves instead of trying to reason with these stubborn, ignorant, arragont, pathetic whiners. "

GrapetownBankerBoi707 wrote on Nov 25, 2008 11:08 PM:

" how can you complain about these problems when you do nothing to stop them and you do nothing to understand these problems in our society? "

cellsitegod wrote on Nov 26, 2008 5:45 AM:

" I'm not sure what dONTwORRY said in his/her comment. I couldn't cipher all the words. But I'm guessing you agree with our "pro-gang advocate" GrapetownBankerBoi707.
Maybe there was a KKK here, But, we got rid of them. Just as we must do with these Latino gangs.
You say "Napa's most wanted is mostly white".
Where did you get that?
Try looking at it every few days for a few weeks. You'll see that on an average it really is mostly Latino's.
I don't think anyone has personally attacked you and called you "ignorant, pathetic, racist, whiner' as you have on your posts.
You say the Latino's are oppressed and they are a product of "our" society"
Well, then they can go back to their country of heritage.
Oh thats right, it's even worse there. That's why they're here.
You state "it's in our DNA as humans to have gangs"
What a cop out!
There's a alot of things in our DNA that are wrong and against the law.
If the community can't do something to stop this rise in violent crimes.
I for one have no problem exercising my constitutional right to bear arms and protect myself, family and property. "

notpc wrote on Nov 26, 2008 9:10 AM:

" to:grapetownbankerboi707-now I at least I know I have an uppity rear end, ignorant,arrogant and a pathetic whiner. I just thought all these years I was just trying to work hard for a living, not harm others, pay my taxes and raise kids to have good ethics and be productive. Thanks so much for the education because now if I am just minding my own business and get stabbed or shot its not the thugs fault it's mine. It is so comforting to know you are our future. "

GrapetownBankerBoi707 wrote on Nov 26, 2008 10:16 AM:

" notpc- so you admit then that you just sit and whine about these gang-problems and don't do a thing to try and solve them or understand them? my point is proven then. thank you.

cellsitegod- i will pose the same challenge to you that i have posed to others: show me exactly where in my posts that i have said i support gangs? just because I have a different approach to solving this gang problem as a result of my work in the community (which notpc has basically just agreed that he has not done and i am still waiting for your response as to how much YOU have done to try and curb this gang problem) does not mean that i support them.

this is a community problem. there are definite problems in our community that need to be addressed, understood and dealt with. my point for most of my posts has been that people like you simply complain about the problem but do nothing to solve it. you don't go out and speak with these kids. you don't go out and work to keep kids out of these. you don't go out and try to understand why they join or how they operate.

you. just. complain.

complaining does nothing. "

109823 wrote on Nov 26, 2008 3:16 PM:

" Banker Boy, I love your last statements, about people living here as long as I and not agreeing with what I say and the NPD also. Well duh, this goes without saying, I'm sure there are alot of people your age that don't agree with what you're saying either. Bottom line is you seem to be the only real vocal rep for the gangs and quite frankly I won't ever go out and deal with gang members. I have worked with good student athletes for years (all nationalities) and I don't feel that it's my place to attempt to turn around some gang banger that his/her parents should have raised more responsibly. Please don't tell me that I haven't done my part as I have thousands of more hours in community service than yourself. "

GrapetownBankerBoi707 wrote on Nov 26, 2008 4:44 PM:

" 109823- again with accusing me of supporting gangs? can anyone on here think of any original reply to my posts other than that i am a gang-supporter (even though i have showed time and time again that i am not)? seriously! that is all you people do! you complain, complain, complain! then as soon as i offer a different solution to the problem than your useless excuse for a solution, you instantly revert back to "you're a gang supporter". i thought OLD people like you were suppose to be wise 109823. i thought you were supposed to have lived and experienced and were therefore understanding, open-minded and wise!

yes, you may have spent time with student athletes doing a service to the community. for that, i commend you. however, as you so clearly stated, you have NOT been involved with keeping our youth OUT of gangs and working to stop the gang violence. you pretty much said that you turn a blind eye to that group of youth. also, do you not realize that every single sports team in the 3 major high schools in napa has had some gang-member or family/friend of a gang-member on it since before i was in high school? you just never knew it.

you have NOT worked with these kids. so you CANNOT say that you have worked to solve this problem. which means that you sit and whine and complain, but do NOTHING! then you call me a gang-banger when i work with these kids and offer a different solution to the problem. "

109823 wrote on Nov 26, 2008 6:45 PM:

" BB, No where in my post do I accuse you of supporting gangs, but you do appear to be alone in your attempt to defend them. Also contrary to your assumption I have actually helped individual students out of the gang atmosphere by allowing them to remain on an athletic team rather than release them, as we knew that they would turn to other activities that weren't school or sports oriented. Finally I'm through trying to convince you that my past history in this community is worthy of your acceptance, you automatically think anyone who has zero tolerance for gangs is sitting on their backside "Complaining" well that's what us "OLD FOLKS" do. You'll be there one day so better get use to it. "

GrapetownBankerBoi707 wrote on Nov 26, 2008 7:21 PM:

" "you seem to be the only vocal rep for these gangs"

i am not representing these gangs. i am not a member and i am not defending them. i am saying that our society has set them up in the situations they are in and simply "locking them up" after they've done wrong and "putting them to death" isnt going to solve the problem. we need to understand why these kids join and then work to stem the problem at its beginning! not just punishing them at the end. we have failed these kids as a society and most of the people on this site sit and complain about it, but do nothing. once again, i commend you on the work you have done. that does not make up for everyone else attacking my suggestions when they simply sit and complain. do you not agree? if you do not agree with me, then please expalin. "

109823 wrote on Nov 26, 2008 11:56 PM:

" BB, I fail to see where society has forced individuals into being involved in gangs. I have read your report on how they're forced/bully'd into joining so no need to repeat. I have worked my entire adult life educating my immediate family on respecting others, love, religion and most importantly (to me) taking responsibilities for your actions. I feel that if all parents chose to impress their children in these areas there would be a lot less gang problems. I think you're a very educated person but you have a huge chip on your shoulder, good luck with your endeavors, Lord knows we need to eliminate gangs. Happy Thanksgiving "

cellsitegod wrote on Nov 27, 2008 5:58 AM:

" Hey grapetownbankerboi707,
You constantly preach about how much you know about these white/latino/black gangs in Napa.
And you think you have a unique "inside" perspective on how they came to be and how they work.
You say you work with these kids to prevent them from being in gangs.
Why don't you "step up" with your "unique inside perspective" that WE don't have and offer to work with NPD to catch the present gang members?
Instead of putting the NPD down.
I'm sure with all the experience/knowledge you keep posting you have. You could be of great help putting these law breakers behind bars so they don't influence the others.
STEP UP BOI! "

notpc wrote on Nov 27, 2008 8:25 AM:

" to-109823- bankerboi wants to ignore any notion of respecting others, honest hard work and last but not least taking responsibility for your actions. Your right,BB does resent people that have the above mentioned values and instead wants to accuse law abiding people of arrogance and ignorance. Looks like he should look in the mirror. "

winghunter wrote on Nov 27, 2008 11:07 AM:

" Bankerboy... I have also worked countless hours with the youth of this city as a coach, I understand that gang members were in that mix. I have never nor will I ever seek out a gang member for the sole reason to get him to leave a gang, I feel I could make better use of my time. If he chooses to join an organization I am involved with I will with open arms help him or her with constructive alternatives to gang life. From the comments you have left here referring to every ones age I am to assume you are young, I am middle aged so I can confidently say that I have served many, many more hours of service to our community than you have. In the future please refrain from telling people you do not know that they do nothing and just sit on their uppity rear ends when in fact it is the complete opposite.
I have had an open mind through this and at least twice asked you your plan to stem the gang problem, you continue to speak in generalities and have yet to supply a plan. In one breath you lay out a scene that anyone in certain neighborhoods will be forced to join a gang, seemingly no alternatives. In the next breath you say that all we need to do is understand them and listen to them, I am paraphrasing but that is what I am getting from your posts. I have described what I feel we need to do to regain control of the gang problem and you clearly disagree. I will ask for the third time, what is your plan? "

knowbetter wrote on Nov 28, 2008 12:12 PM:

" BankerBoy?. I am not sure what you are referencing. I grew up in Napa. I graduated in the 80s, from Vintage high school. There were groups of people who dressed alike, came from like situations, Had similar interests. These groups were not gangs. There was and always will be fights between youths. The difference in my mind between a gang and a group is that a gang is together for only one purpose.( to group up and throw their weight around) You are a very good writer of your apinions, but you have based these on???? Take the time to leave your misconceptions and go to a prison and ask a counselor his opinion!!! "

GrapetownBankerBoi707 wrote on Nov 28, 2008 3:13 PM:

" i am not fighting this fight anymore. it is useless to speak with people that will not budge from their ways.

knowbetter- the surenos came into town in the early 70's. the nortenos came into town in the late 70's. BPN came up in the late 80's early 90's. my "misconceptions" come from my experience in dealing with these individuals, in reading on gangs/watching documentaries on gangs, speaking with prison guards/psychologists (i know 4 prison guards and 2 prison psychologists personally along with another one who is about to be a prison guard), growing up with gangs surrounding me and through speaking with individuals who were alive and in the gang (whether they currently are still in it or not) during periods of time all the way back to the 70's. if you didn't see the gangs or their violence or if you didn't know about it, that doesnt mean it wasnt there. no one knew there were gang stabbings in town still until a year ago when it finally started being reported in NVR. but they happened. most people didn't know that in the 90's there were as many as 10 or 15 people stabbed or shot in a weekend, but former NPD have been quoted in articles this year as saying they remember it.

i'm done trying to offer a different point of view and a different solution with the same result: being attacked and accused of being a gang-supporter. "

knowbetter wrote on Nov 28, 2008 5:29 PM:

" Sir, I believe you are a man. I do not know, nor does it matter.I did not accuse you of supporting any gangs. I have a brother from napa that will never see the light of day again. I grew up in napa in the 70s. Having some knowleedge of gang affiliated people, does in and of itself make you an expert. I ran around with some of the roughest characters in town. I know at least a dozen people who work for the C.D.C. or the Fed, Bureau of Prisons. I base my knowledge on first hand experience in Napa and the prison system. Bring these poor affected souls your house for Christmas and give them all of the things that they are lacking n their life... They will be back in less than a week to Rob you as you are in their eyes WEAK. Thank You for the "ILLUMINATION" as you are obviously more knowledgeable than all of your neighbors, and myself. "

GrapetownBankerBoi707 wrote on Nov 28, 2008 7:00 PM:

" you may not have but others have. i do not claim to be the expert of experts on gangs. although growing up spending every day around it, knowing a lot of people that are locked away for life, and knowing a lot of law enforcement, i do feel that i know enough to be able to speak and offer an alternative solution to the problem other than the useless garbage of simply "locking them up after the fact" that most of these people are suggesting. we have been "locking them up" for 30 years. all it does it put them in an environment that is supposed to "rehabilitate" them (although it does nothing of the sort. even prison guards will readily admit that). in reality, when u enter the prison system, if you dont join a prison gang, you are most likely going to end up dead unless ur in PC. then ur prison gang gives u criminal boot camp. then they are released back onto the streets many with PTSD-like symptoms and tell them to try and live their lives as an ex-con (if they even get out). many of them dont get out of prison. how is locking these kids up after their crimes going to solve the problem? there are just more kids to replace them. we need to stop it at its source! which is wut i've said this entire time! but i get attacked and accused of being a gang-supporter for offering an alternative to a useless solution. that is why i am giving up even replying to these people. they are stuck in their ways and won't listen to anything. "

GrapetownBankerBoi707 wrote on Nov 28, 2008 7:01 PM:

" also, i forgot to mention that i HAVE had gang-members in my house. they didnt steal anything. nor did they come back to rob me. woops, guess i was just lucky huh? "

knowbetter wrote on Nov 29, 2008 9:38 AM:

" Coddling these poor souls does not work... WHAT IS YOUR PLAN...? I see nothing but bleeding heart left wing liberalism...I went to John J. Mc Kibben Elementary school in Whittier, Jr. HIgh in San Berdooo. I have fought for my lunch money and eaten my lunch(EVERY TIME), at each of these places. There were two white kids in my class in elementary period. So do not tell me about gangs, I KNOWBETTER? see. "

knowbetter wrote on Nov 29, 2008 9:49 AM:

" How come it does not surprise me in the least , that you have personal interaction/ home visits with the people THAT YOU CLAIM TO NOT DEFEND??? "

GrapetownBankerBoi707 wrote on Nov 29, 2008 5:50 PM:

" knowbetter- so i suppose that don't know anybody that doesnt smoke weed or cheat on their taxes every once in a while or anything else illegal huh? are you going to tell me that every single person in your life is a 100% law-abiding person that has never done anything wrong? i highly doubt that. yet you let them in your home.

i grew up on a block that had at least one gang-member in every house-hold except my own. i do not defend their actions. i do not condone them. i do not in any way say that it is acceptable for them to do what they do! show me where in my posts that i have said that is ok! i have put that challenge out there time and time again and i STILL have not seen anyone come up with an answer! so quit it with that garbage and come up with something a little more productive! i am not saying anymore that you know nothing about gangs! i am also not saying to coddle them! if they have been proven to commit a crime then they should get locked up. i have never said otherwise. however, i don't think that simply locking gang-members up after they have committed a crime is going to solve the problem! there are more young ones to take their place. this is the entire point of all my posts! instead of simply just locking them up after the fact, we need to curb the problem at the beginning! "

GrapetownBankerBoi707 wrote on Nov 29, 2008 6:02 PM:

" how about instead of accusing me of defending these people, you actually listen to what i am saying? this is why problems never get solved! people get set in their ways and mind-sets and aren't open to any other solutions instead of their own! i am so sick of you not listening to a word i say and instead just assuming that i must be one of them or supporting them! i am so sick of you brushing my ideas aside because of you pre-conceived notions about me based on NOTHING!

no wonder they don't listen to you or the rest of society! you won't listen to them! no wonder they don't respect you or the rules you give them! you won't respect them! you don't give them the time of day simply because of your pre-conceived notions!

my entire point of all my posts is to focus on the problem where it begins! not just putting a band-aid on it when it breaks through the surface! if we don't stop this problem where it starts, then it will continue to have the same end results no matter how many times you throw someone in prison! "

notpc wrote on Nov 29, 2008 8:28 PM:

" to grapetown-bb-boi707, You need to chill out. You were so in control at the beginning but now you seem to be falling to pieces, I know it must be tough to keep hearing the same message over and over about how hard working, law abiding citizens are just fed up with gangbangin' thugs. I don't listen to or respect thugs. I will be happy to listen to their sad stories as a member of a jury though. "

winghunter wrote on Nov 30, 2008 6:40 PM:

" Grapetown BB you wrote, "no wonder they don't listen to you or the rest of society! you won't listen to them! no wonder they don't respect you or the rules you give them!"

Without these RULES there is no society, these RULES that we are asking them to live by are the same exact rules that the rest of this civilized county are asked to live by. I have been open minded during this discussion but you have yet to state a plan of action to replace the current plan in place by the NPD. So far you have done nothing but say that you grew up in a gang neighborhood, know a few prison guards, read a book or two and watch some TV show called Gangland. You seemingly have personal experience in every argument brought up on this blog, paralleling those I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express commercials from a few years back. .
With this great wealth of personal information to draw from I will ask for the fourth time, what is your plan?? "

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• Linking multiple comments together with "to be continued..." to get around the 300 word limit.

The fine print

- Comments are either approved or denied. We do not edit comments.

- You are welcome to modify and resubmit a denied comment.

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