" Dan,

Nice try, but the biggest issue that drove many of the people to that rally was the allegation that came from a fairly reliable source that Ms. Speth unilaterally chose to go with a minority position (as in vote) of the Editorial Board in supporting McCain. This was seen as an act that was a slap in the face of the democratic process, which was why so many of these folks felt betrayed by this newspaper when it took the position that it did. This should – I would think – make perfect sense to you, given your expressed faith in this piece in voting as a positive manifestation of the democratic process.

Furthermore, although there were some folks there that I didn’t know at all, I did know many of them and I can attest to the fact that a significant portion of the folks at this rally were NOT Democrats, but just plain old Obama supporters. There were (gasp) some Republicans there that I know, as well as quite a few "Decline to State" voters, and at least a couple of people that I know to be registered "Greens."

So what does this say about your assertion that this rally was just another example of a bunch of partisan Democrats mindlessly toeing the Party line? That you, sir, have made assumptions that have led you to start with a false premise and end with a rather poorly supported conclusion, at least insofar as this particular event is concerned. "

" I feel the same way, Dan. While I usually side with the Democrats on election day and I am a supporter of Obama, I don't like being attached to a particular party. While I share many of the same views as the Democrats, not all their beliefs are also my beliefs.

I don't understand the people who choose a party and stick with that party under all circumstances. I would rather choose the candidate who I think is best suited for the job. The letter next to their name has little relevance to me on election day. "

" Very well put, Dan. Thanks for getting to the heart of the matter. I grew up in a Democratic, liberal, union household. But the parties of today disgust me.

I've been accused of having a "right-wing agenda" simply for NOT saying bad things about a Republican others were eager to bash.

I've also been treated rudely by Republicans who assume I must have a "left-wing" agenda, for whatever kooky reason of their own.

Sometimes it feels like life itself is being poisoned by these politics; and we've been drinking from the tainted well so long, we don't even realize what is happening to us.

This column was like a gulp of FRESH water. More, please. "

" Joanne:
I was in the crowd too, and I was impressed by the thoughts and comments of many there. I agree, there were a large number who carried the same thought you do.
However, when some stated that Napa is a county with more D's than R's, therefore the newspaper must endorse a D, my point was clearly demonstrated that the letter D or R at the end of the candidate's name means more to some than the candidate's issues.
Everyone has a right to an opinion, and everyone has a right to oppose that opinion by protesting it. Let's disagree without demanding opposing viewpoints go away or be changed. "

" What's so difficult to understand, Dan? Are you a product of our public education system? We have a two party system, like it or not. The two parties have vastly different ideologies: one wants bigger government, higher taxes, weaker national defense and abortion on demand. The one wants lower taxes, smaller government, stronger national defense and no abortion.

The majority of voters don't have a problem choosing one or the other... "

" I have been sitting here in front of my computer for an hour trying to figure out a response to this. Here it is:


"I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here! "


This site is set up for conflict. You guys in the media thrive on it. Controversy sells papers. What did you think would happen when you ask a question like: Who won the debate? I find it irritating when "the media" bemoans the state of political discourse, that they've helped to foster these last 30 years. "

" Dan,

You said: "Let's disagree without demanding opposing viewpoints go away or be changed." And as you seem to admit in your own posted comment, some, but not all, of the people at this rally seemed to have just that in mind.

The flaw in your original argument lies in the fact that some of the people in that crowd who voiced those "demands" were not partisan, but rather simply supporters of Obama. Yet you imply that their behavior was driven by partisanship. And some of the partisans in that crowd were not making those demands.

Political parties do, indeed, have their flaws, but they serve many very important functions in our democratic process, not the least of which is getting a lot of people registered and to the polls who might not otherwise vote. (I, and many other “partisans” that I know, for example, have worked tirelessly in advance of this election registering voters of every political stripe.) In a nation that already has one of the lowest rates of voter participation in the world, I think you do a disservice to your readers when you publish pieces like this, which discourage and even disparage partisan participation. "

" joanne: I commend you for your efforts. registering voters is excellent. I believe encouraging them to think independently of partisanship in the voting booth, or in our case at the mailbox, is equally outstanding.

I openly encourage very person who can vote to not only register but get out there, learn the issues and vote with an open mind on the issues.
Does party matter? absolutely. Should it be the overriding factor in the decision on who to vore for? Absolutely not. "

" OK, Dan. We could go around and around about this, but I have voters to register across party lines this afternoon. So I’m off to engage in that partisan-organized activity, which – of course – is not the only thing that political parties do that are of value in a democratic system. But you make my point for me here, I think.

The premise of your original essay was -- at least in part -- that "the individuals voicing this opinion showed an apparent belief a voter must support a letter, and not a person."

I made it very clear that there were many people there who were not partisans, but were, in fact, Obama supporters. Would that not qualify them as individuals supporting a person and not a letter? I think it does.

Two final points: I, too, agree that there could and should be a much more civilized level of political discourse in these United States and that is a cause that I would heartily encourage you to support and promote. But “teacher” does make a good point here. The media, NVR included, plays a significant role in fostering unpleasant political discourse. I’ll let the rest of his/her comments speak for themselves. "

" I'll sign up for the Political Agnostics. In some areas I agree with Democrats and in some with Republicans. And I tend towards cynicism with individual politicians. My husband is Republican, and we had a ongoing battle in the Clinton-Dole race. He would say "vote for the liar-he promises more." My return comment was "if the other candidate is telling the truth, but you don't like his proposals, you can't vote for him, because you will get a policy you don't like." I find it easier to vote on issues, because with an individual you can't really know if what they are saying before the election will change, either because they were just saying it to get elected, or situations arise where they have to change their position.But what choice do you have but to take their statements at face value? This is the one reason that I think character matters. I think that both presidential candidates have reasonably good character this time, so I can really look at the issues. (I know that some people on each side think the other candidate doesn't have good character, but please don't jump in to try and convince me. I have read your arguments on other threads and don't want to hear them again.) "

" People actively and civilly exercising free speech, no matter how misguided I may feel it was, are labeled intolerant? Do you get to write your own on line head lines?

We are stuck with an imperfect system and no matter how foolish it may appear to wave about party affiliation it is the only marker of identity we have. A general theory of agnosticism will find that while one may be a believer in “the either or” one still doubts and that is where most people come from except for those who prefer fanaticism of “my party right or wrong.”

The D and R are reference points only for a general orientation and should be applauded rather than condemned for their participation and the overt voicing of opinion no matter how silly it may make them appear.

Those of both parties that devote their time and efforts at voter registration, thankless barbeques and chicken dinners and countless other activities for the candidates of their choice are to be commended even while participating in a largely show boat effort designed to catch attention. It may have served better than gaining the endorsement of the NVR.

A better description of the broadly defined D and R might be that one tends to the direction of justice, fairness and equality while the other may perceive moral rights, independence and personal property as their direction. The reality is that they share much more of these qualities with one another than they would care to admit. Coping with the art of the possible is the essence of the system and has some messy baggage.

We exist in a strange democratic Tao constantly struggling with liberty and equality that is rarely stated in any endorsement or well written opinion. "

" Excuse me, a teacher is most assuredly a man. Jeez! :) "

" Why is it about political parties? Say we're having a little exchange about my letter to the editor:
My letter: "My mother's a good person. I respect her."
A Comment: "Your mother wears army boots."
My response: "No she doesn't. Anyway, she's a really good person."
AC: "Your mother wears army boots."
Me: "No. She doesn't. Those are Doc Martins. Why's it important anyway?"
AC: "Doc Martins? No one on the dole wears Doc Martins. She bought those boots at the army/navy surplus store."
Me: "She's not on the dole. Any reason you need to attack her so viciously?"
AC: "Yeah. She wears army boots."
Me: "Actually, they're Doc Martins, from Bloomingdales. I have the receipt."
“B” Commenter: "Bloomingdales!? You mean Knockoff Special Bloomingdales?"
AC: "They're army boots. Whatever happened to high heels, anyway? If your fascist mother has her way, all our women will be marching lockstep in army boots."
“C” Commenter: "Hey AC, Guess you're not interested in facts. Just in insults. Clearly, receipts mean nothing to you."
AC: "See, all you army boot brats think the same way. You think you have all the facts. Google "mother" and "army boots" and maybe you'll finally learn something, like what your mother is REALLY wearing."
Me: "I've been in the army, and those aren't army boots. Anyway I happen to trust my mother. She's not dishonest."
“D” Commenter: "Everyone who wears army boots is dishonest. This just proves it! We trust these people, no woman will ever be free to wear high heels again! We're headed for a true CLOGOCRACY. Too bad you don't have a sense of humor, or you'd know I'm right as rant. LOL."
So....could you tell who represents which party? If so, maybe it IS about parties. "

" Sorry, "teach." Please forgive me. I meant in no way to impugn your masculinity. If you have made reference to your gender on this venue at some point previously, I have somehow missed that thus far. Although it is pretty clear that you are "a teacher," I had no way of being certain one way or another whether you were "Mr. Teacher" or "Ms. Teacher," and did not mean in any way to be presumptuous, nor sexist, by automatically assuming that you were a mister, or going to the once commonly used default format (of a male pronoun) to refer to a member of the human species, regardless of gender.

If you are half the man that you are a thinker, than you are most certainly a hunka-hunka burnin' testosterone.

So, are we good now, "teach?" "

" Mzzzzzz. Umbrella!

After all the regret and shame I was feeling over how I, earlier today, inadvertently called Mr. Teacher's masculinity into question (before he sorted out his chromosomal alpha-bits for me, that is), your post gave me a restorative giggle.

Thanks ever so.

BTW, Mz. U, if you will allow me to go a bit off-topic for a moment here: I noticed that we both posted nearly the very same initial comment here: http://www.napavalleyregister.com/articles/2008/10/12/opinion/editorial/doc48f143729f43a730676949.txt. (If you didn't notice, you should go look.)

Although you submitted yours earlier in the day than did I, it had not yet been published online (so I had no way to know of its existence) at the time that I submitted my own stunningly similarly comment.

Do you think this indicates that we have some sort of cyber-telepathic link via the NVR online venue going on here? Or what? I mean, this is the sort of stuff that urban legends are built upon!

Of course, it could just have been a coincidence, I suppose. But why go with such a dull and, frankly, reasonable explanation when to do so is, well, so very dull and reasonable? "

" Joanne we were cool before. Being referred to as a miss is an inside joke "

" Joanne -- Glad I could offer some comic relief. You've been doing an admirable job with this issue here. I, on the other hand, am fighting off utter disdain (yet not despair) regarding the tone of some of the continuing comments in the NVR over the past few months, and erupting into satire occasionally redirects the get-back impulse.
I had noticed our twin comments after the endorsement article. My immediate reaction was, Huh? is that the McCain supporters, mocking me? But recognizing your name from earlier letter & posts, I concluded it was a sort of harmonic convergence of fundamental shock and disbelief.
I was ready to give up on the Register in that first moment of shock, but then realized the endorsement did not reflect what and whom I appreciate about the Register, so I merely took a break to catch my breath. I'm back, but feeling a tad more caustic when I write. "

" Some of you guys crack me up!

hahahahaha

Thanks for the laugh!

Too funny della!

Seriously I am a registered Democrat however I have been known to vote and support whom I perceived as the better candidate no matter what political party.

I think the problem in voting today is a matter of inflexability and the group think mob and mentality. Until we as Americans are willing to stop being spoon fed as to what to think, wear and yes even vote, this will continue. "

" dan-


Whats up the opening of Blogger haven on the Register.


Do we have to march.........


just kidding. "

" winemd: welcome to the party...!!

bill: I do write my own headlines, and I do find people who insist that only their party can be right, and you must only vote for the letter and not the person, are truly intolerant of the opinions of others. I find this vocal minority everywhere I go, and I am disappointed each and every time.

joanne: you and I agree on many points. On others, we can agree to disagree and move on from there to find the positives...

freeport: just about to abandon the concept I showed you at Bloggermania and develop one in-house for all youse guys! Will know more soon and will e-mail the bloggermania group with details, so PLEASE, no marching on the steps of the concrete downtown bunker, ! "

" Thanks Dan for the update. Brenda had said there were some technology issues.

The NVR is doing a great job of moderating the blogs. There are some good tempers and even better arguments. A real Blog Spot would be pretty good.

Keep up the great work Dan. "

" Who needs an endorsement? Are you that befuddled that you can't come to your own conclusions? Do you wait until the Register tells you how to vote? It's a newspaper that's supposed to have an unbiased opinion, which I tend to believe they don't. This paper has been so left leaning my heart hurts. Babs Boxer, Nancy Pelosi, Mike Thompson have been riding these tailcoats for years.

I'm registered Democrat and stand 7 for 7 in the last Presidential elections and I plan on making it 8 for 8. I'm voting for John McCain because he's earned the vote and will protect American interests in a very nasty, dangerous, international powder keg. And I could care less that the NVR endorsed my candidate. "

" you're streak is coming to an end Paddy "

" I think being referred to as a "miss" was a very high compliment. Teacher should thank Joanne. "

" Sandra, did you come all the way over hear just to yank my chain? "

" The intolerance of the American voter.
I'd bet good money, even my life on it, that if we all voted for neither Republican or Democrat, one or the other would still win.
Our vote means nothing. "

" I agree with Paddy....though as an X-Democrat....and proud of it.. "

" Teacher nailed it. My personal opinion is that corporate told the Register who they were going to endorse, and they did. All the while, of course, knowing that doing so would drive a lot of people nuts.

The Register did an extraordinary disservice to this community with its endorsement. Not because of the ticket it endorsed, but because of the incredibly vapid and disingenuous defense of its argument. The Register's endorsement looked to me as nothing more than Republican talking points. Nothing original, not very thoughtful, and really quite weak.

I would bet that the professionals at the Register are embarrassed by this endorsement. It's sad, really, to live in a world class region, and to have such a lack of genuine editorial intellectual curiosity. "