" Mr Marshall- sorry but if a person marries they must provide a copy of their license to put their spouse on medical coverage. This is just one step to prohibiting christian values in our homes and schools. As it is our governor signed a bill that allows either sexes to use the bathroom of the oposite sex if they feel they are of that sex-bet you didn't know that.
This is not a matter of giving a segement of our population the right to what normal people have, it is protecting what is right. "

" Mr. Marshall, your letter made your point better than I ever could have. Seeing someone present this side of the argument in a calm, reasonable manner gives me hope that people will remember that this country was built on equal rights for ALL people.

No on Prop 8. "

" I agree, Rick. Enshrining discrimination in our state constitution would be worse than shameful. We should not be making laws that take rights away from citizens. That's completely un-American and in my opinion, un-Christian too. "

" So are you going to get married before the November election?

I would, if I were gay or lesbian and in a domestic partnership right now.

My wife and I hope that Prop 8 goes down to defeat, but we would not encourage gay and lesbian couples to be complacent about it.

There are a lot of incentives for the anti-equality people to turn out.

If Prop 8 passes, I would expect to see years of lawsuits brought by folks who were legally married before Prop 8 passed to ensure that their marriages are not negated somehow.

If you and your partner do marry... congratulations!

'Straight' people are not all homophobic. Too many 'straight couples' don't come right out and say "Thanks, but No Thanks... to fearmongering and anti-equality!".

And we should say it at the ballot box this November too!

NO on Prop 8!

~Ruff "

" kbf - Once, some years ago, I went to an Oakland Raiders game and the women had a shortage of stalls because a woman's restroom was out-of-commission - so several enterprising women took over the stalls of the nearest men's room and the men used the urinals.

Things worked out... no laws were required, nobody had to call the cops. Traditional morality was preserved and humans did what they do best... got along.

Civilization did not collapse in that Oakland Colusium men's room then... and it will not collapse now if we don't enshrine homophobia in the state constitution.

My lovely wife and I together welcome gay and lesbian couples to marry and get the same treatment as anyone else by employers and the law.

~Ruff and his sweet wife "

" hmm....I don't recall ever having to provide a marriage license to an employer to obtain medical coverage for my spouse, and I've worked for more than 30 years for many different employers. "

" I've never been asked to produce a marriage certificate for anything in my life.... But then I didn't list my wife as having the first name "Larry" either.... "

" KBF...I never had to prove marriage for medical insurance from a civilian job...Now DEERS is different for obvious reasons. The christian values in your home must be quite delicate if your household is unable to PROTECT EQUAL RIGHTS FOR EVERY AMERICAN CITIZEN! "

" "Christian values"...???

Many Christian theologians will disagree with that... I have to assume that you are condemning all Christians who believe homosexuality is wrong... That gives you a very special place in society...

Perhaps you meant Islam... They stone gay people in Iran... "

" When I read these kinds of comments...

"This is just one step to prohibiting christian values in our homes and schools."

and

"This is not a matter of giving a segement of our population the right to what normal people have..."

It is hard to follow the writer's thoughts...

Does this writer have such a weak grasp on their own spiritual beliefs that other believe-systems, thought or life-styles can so easily disrupt it?

Are those rigidly anti-gay relationships, of such little faith in their own relationship, that they must seek to control or destroy others to make their own look stronger?

Normal, meaning... average, conforming, standard??? "

" Dwayne - If you profess to be a Christian then you should be aware that are lots more things were said by Jesus about 'taking care of these the least of my brothers' than Jesus words about homosexuals of which there are none.

So don't you think that purported 'Christians' should act more like Christ, the 'Prince of Peace' and care for the poor and afflicted than pick on gay people who are not trying to marry you?

~Ruff "

" Ruff Limblog wrote on Sep 11, 2008 6:25 PM:
" Dwayne - If you profess to be a Christian..."

You sure assume a lot for a guy with an attitude....

Should I consider you an atheist or a muslim...??? Naaahhh... I wouldn't be so rude..... "

" Dwayne - I was raised in the 'Judeo-Christian Tradition', and I take the actual words of Jesus seriously, much to the regret of many a false prophet.

Over the years, I've noticed how many folks think their thoughts were more important add-ons that the actual words of Jesus.

The only folks in the Bible that really made Jesus angry were the money-changers in the Temple.

Sorry if a serious discussion of a subject like "What Did Jesus Say?" got you hot under the collar.

~Ruff "

" Ruff wrote "'Straight' people are not all homophobic." Your implication is that all those voting in favor of Prop 8 are 'homophobic'. I would ask, who is the hate spreader here? Can you not conceive of the possibility of someone supporting Prop 8, yet not having a phobia about gays? "

" You wrote: "...enshrine homophobia in the state constitution." Excuse me? To suggest that Prop 8 is about homophobia is a serious and undeserved slur against those whose traditional moral convictions don't support the concept of gay marriage. "

" Ruff, in case you didn't know, Christians accept the totality of the New Testament as the basis for the doctrines that support their faith. And we all know what the NT says about homosexuality. It may be correct to say that Jesus himself said nothing against homosexuality, but it should be pointed out that he said nothing about many topics, including pedophilia. According to you, does that mean he approved of pedophilia? "

" I also appreciate the even, well-reasoned justification for voting against proposition 8. I will try to match the tone, but yet explain why I will instead be voting for proposition 8.

Consider the example of the effects of second-hand smoking. If you had asked people 100 years ago whether smoking was harmful, I am sure they would have said "no, and certainly my smoking could not possibly hurt you (a non-smoker)." Today, with the benefit of hindsight, the dangers of smoking are abundantly clear -- to me in particular and to society in general. 

Opponents of 8 often state that same sex marriages will have no impact on my marriage in particular nor on society in general. What proof do they offer? None. Can I predict what impact it will have? No. Not me either. Am I willing to risk the possible (and in my opinion likely) negative impacts that might occur from redefining marriage? No. I am very uncomfortable with having my children and grandchildren being used as guinea pigs in such a novel experiment. We have no idea where this will lead. It will likely be a generation or more before all the consequences are known -- just like with second hand smoke.

Yet there is literally thousands of years of experience with marriage as it has been traditionally defined. We know what to expect there.

This is one of the reasons that I will be voting yes on proposition 8. "

" Moonstone: thousands of years of declining success? More broken families? A success rate of less than 50% I can understand (but not agree) why you might view the success of same-sex marriages as another attack on an institution that isn't doing so well. I *can* agree with those who want to protect marriage: loving, stable, committed relationships are best for our society, our children and our communities. I just think it doesn't matter if those loving, committed relationships are gay or straight.

Examples of successful, long-term commitment can do us all good. "

" How can it be that so many in California want to prevent same sex marriages from being allowed? In a country that professes freedom and equality for all, why shouldn't anyone be allowed to express their love through marriage? There are millions of underrepresented people who are being denied the right to marry those they love, whether those of the same sex, 7 year old children, sheep or inanimate objects. Why shouldn't all of these relationships be state sanctioned and marriage allowed. Why shouldn’t we teach our children that these relationships are normal and acceptable? Never mind that any 10 year old learning biology can recognize that these types of relationships don't proliferate in nature. Humans are capable of creativity and tolerance that should be celebrated! And if disease or social problems arise as a result, we’ll find some way to justify our choices so that we can just keep doing what we like. And when eventually we wipe ourselves out through perversion, self-indulgence and denial the life forms that take over can call it natural selection... "