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McCain’s choice
Monday, September 01, 2008
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At first glance, there appears to be much to admire in Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska, Sen. John McCain’s choice as his vice presidential running mate. Just 44 years old, she is a talented and upbeat person who excelled in basketball and beauty pageants, music and moose hunting. Since entering politics she has shown independence and a clear moral compass. On Alaska’s oil and gas commission, she blew the whistle on a fellow Republican’s conflict of interest. Her 2006 campaign for the state’s highest office began as an insurrection against her party’s old guard. In choosing her, McCain said that Palin’s experience equips her to help “shake up Washington.”

There is no surprise in the fact that Palin is a conservative on the issues that matter most to the Republican Party’s base. She is an opponent of abortion and a particularly outspoken advocate of letting oil and gas companies drill on public lands.
But politically, McCain’s choice was a stunner. He bypassed safer choices, such as Mitt Romney, the former governor of Massachusetts, and Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty, in favor of a relative unknown.

Now McCain can say he is giving voters a chance to make history by electing the first woman to be vice president. He is also hoping Palin’s down-to-earth “hockey mom” persona will appeal to those working-class Democrats, especially women, who voted for Sen. Hillary Clinton in the primary — though many supporters of abortion rights may be insulted by that proposition.
The most important question McCain should have asked himself about Palin was not whether she could help him win the presidency. It was whether she is qualified and prepared to serve as president should anything prevent him from doing so. This would have been true for any presidential nominee, and it was especially crucial that McCain, 72, get this choice right. If he is elected, he will be the oldest man ever to serve a first term in the White House.

Not long ago, no less a Republican strategist than Karl Rove belittled Virginia Gov. Tim Kaine as a potential running mate for Barack Obama, noting that picking him would appear “intensely political” because Kaine’s experience consisted of only three years as governor preceded by the mayoralty of Richmond, which Rove called “not a big town.”
Using Rove’s criteria, Palin would not fare well. Her executive experience consists of less than two years as governor of her sparsely populated state, plus six years as mayor of Wasilla (pop. 8,471). Absorbed in Alaska’s unique energy and natural resource issues, she has barely been heard from in the broader national debates over economic policy and health care. Above all, she has no record on foreign policy and national security — including terrorism, which McCain posits as the top challenge facing America and the world. Once the buzz over Palin’s nomination dies down, the hard questions about her will begin. The answers will reflect on her qualifications — and on McCain’s judgment as well.

(This editorial originally appeared in the Washington Post.)
137 comment(s)

Hear Ye wrote on Sep 1, 2008 1:12 AM:

" I would say this piece is brilliant if it wasn't so obvious "

JimClark wrote on Sep 1, 2008 2:23 AM:

" Well, maybe it is past time to see a candidate that has the common sense to make more realistic decisions that don't meet the Washington criteria. Only left leaning women seem to impose themselves on the public mind when real women seem to make a profound difference. I have known such women. All too many ladies cannot come to believe they can make difference due to their acceptance of the historical woman. Only a few have made a serious impression as they have somehow relieved themselves of a stereotype they found entirely too confining of what they are capable of becoming. Those ladies make a difference in our belief system. They are not necessarily overbearing yet they make their point. They don’t demand respect. They earn it. "

Skip M. wrote on Sep 1, 2008 6:20 AM:

" This is what we call “In your face, Obama!” Mr. McCain played the old trump card and knocked Obama right off the front page. This is what we call STRATEGY! While Obama was busily playing to the pollsters and focus groups, McCain watched and listened and gave the PEOPLE what they wanted. So, now it’s a question of how is history made this time around? Do we get our first African American President, or our first (official) woman Vice President?

Nice job trying to toss in the age factor though. But personally, I would rather have an older person with some clue of how the world really is, than a younger person with theories of how the world should be. "

Ruff Limblog wrote on Sep 1, 2008 6:55 AM:

" At least the WAPO puts their byline on this editorial.

Not exactly deep truth in this editorial, more on the level of 'apprentice taking journeyman test'.

Since the US government and the US Constitution lasts longer than finite human lives and there are presidential term limits as well, the discussion of the qualifications of the 'newer, younger, inexperienced candidate' vs the record of the 'older, experienced candidate' will be a part of American politics forever.

However, nobody is changing their vote because of any VP's lack of experience except for the FAUX 'undecideds' who write on opinion pages.

That makes the choice of Biden or Palin irrelevant to this election.

A far more interesting question would be... does being the VP candidate on the losing side of an election make you a more likely or less likely potential candidate in the next election cycle?

~Ruff "

TrickleDown wrote on Sep 1, 2008 8:32 AM:

" Boy, this is clear bias. Palin has a superior background in foreign policy as she lives in Alaska which neighbors Russia and Canada. I am sure she has brokered many deals between the three nations, has met with many leaders from both nations, and has kept us from the brink of war with each numerous times...this editorial refuses to note it, but luckily the republicans will argue this is the case. Sarah Palin also visited bases in Germany and Kuwait to see her national guard troops...that is real foreign policy experience. Sure, my mom, who lived on Army bases in Germany has as much foreign policy experience and met with the same number of foreign leaders on her time there, but Palin is clearly experienced in foreign policy. Just ask a republican. "

kevin wrote on Sep 1, 2008 8:41 AM:

" She is the governor of the largest state in the Nation! She knows first hand more about energy production than Algore.

Yet you make her sound like chopped liver.

Please go ahead and keep it up. I predict your misogynistic attacks will backfire and be revealed as nothing more than partisan propaganda. "

athought wrote on Sep 1, 2008 8:45 AM:

" I'd rather have an inexperienced vice president than an inexperienced president. "

common sense wrote on Sep 1, 2008 8:50 AM:

" Recall the advice of Margaret Thatcher: “In politics if you want anything said, ask a man. If you want anything done, ask a woman.” "

musikluvr wrote on Sep 1, 2008 9:51 AM:

" The democrats have never had an electable candidate running in this presidential election including their nominee. They will strike out at anything that McCain does simply out of fear and frustration. "

glenroy wrote on Sep 1, 2008 9:52 AM:

" Most national elections are about opposing who you don‘t want elected…..as an admitted fan of McCain this is real change and his VP choice is entirely consistent with his populist core...

From a Presidential perspective, our core challenges require strong competent leadership whether economic, energy or security. Here the contrast is as stark as it gets…one declared al Qaeda victors pandering to popular misconceptions… the other stood stalwart supporting our forces when it was political suicide to do so… he now enjoys overwhelming support among those fighting this war….

Of the VP Candidates….one obtained senate membership dating to the anti Vietnam War movement gaining significant portions of both Houses….having presided over our worse policy failures in recent history. He first supported the abandoned South Vietnam leaving millions defenseless against a merciless foe, directly leading to 2 million innocents being slaughtered in South East Asia…another accomplishment was successfully pawning off Carter as a ‘candidate of change’ ….who indeed brought changes … changed Iran abandoning the Shah handing Iran over the Islamists who are now trying to build nuclear bombs to use on us..….changed the CIA eviscerating the entire Middle Eastern Dept. leaving thousands of western Muslims to fend for themselves, then seeking even more partisan ‘Headlines’ leaked classified information leading directly to hundreds being executed for their western sympathies…. He is nothing if not consistent, again making the same mistakes supporting Clinton’s gutting our intelligence/conventional forces…leaving this nation defenseless against what became al Qaeda and the attacks that followed.

Conversely in all respects is the other VP Candidate….a Union Member… an advocate of tapping into the billions of barrels of Alaskan Crude… more experienced in energy matters than other 3 combined…. a social moderate…. a practicing Conservationist….a traditional Republican. "

Skip M. wrote on Sep 1, 2008 10:00 AM:

" Trickledown: With all due respect, I am not aware that we had ever been “on the brink of war” with Canada. And what was the potential war about, the price of Moose Head? "

Raven wrote on Sep 1, 2008 10:38 AM:

" the largest state with almost the smallest population...the bay area has more than 10 times the population of the entire state of Alaska.... "

dellasumbrella wrote on Sep 1, 2008 12:04 PM:

" I think she's pretty impressive. She reminds me of Seinfeld's girlfriend (I can't remember her name), and l find myself similarly interested in what she's saying just because of the spunky and self-assured way she says it. I haven't heard her say anything dumb yet, except the part about wanting to know what a VP does on a day-to-day basis before commenting on what she'll bring to the job. Didn't they give her the job description before offering her the job of candidate? Anyway, it was gutsy of McCain to pick her, huh? "

kevin wrote on Sep 1, 2008 12:20 PM:

" Ruff, the Washington Post is NOT owned by an Indian tribe... "

misfit wrote on Sep 1, 2008 12:35 PM:

" The point "athought" is that, Sarah Palin would be just a heartbeat away from the presidency.
I am an Obama supporter. I think Sarah Palin is a great person and perhaps, a great governor. She might even make a great vice president because, like with any of us who have maybe bitten off more than we can chew on our jobs, she may have the intangibles necessary that could allow her to excel. Unfortunately, her resume, in the real world, would have been thrown out as she would clearly not be able to step in as president. She was not even properly vetted.
It isn't often that you get hired anyway, despite that lack of experience.
The point of this is not all about Sarah Palin however. It says more about the judgment of John McCain. Surely, there were a couple of scenarios working here because John "Maverick" McCain, would not have made this choice himself. He wanted Lieberman. He couldn't have him. He needed the conservative evangelical's money and this was the only way to get it. Already, he has raised more money in the past few days than his previous average daily intake.
John McCain crumbled to the religious right. This does not say much about him or his Cohones. Seems he has been shot down again. How did this insanity come about??? How can we ever trust John to make sound judgements now? How can we trust him to put "Country first"? "

Sickothis wrote on Sep 1, 2008 12:57 PM:

" Sarah Palin, answering a 2006 policy questionnaire in the Alaska Gubernatorial race (remember - this was a written questionnaire): Q: Are you offended by the phrase "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?

PALIN: Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance.

The Pledge of Allegiance was written in 1892. It would not be made the official pledge of the United States until 1942.

The words "Under God" were not in the Pledge. They would not appear there until 1954, during McCain's senior year of high school.

Palin's name is listed on 2003 incorporation papers of the "Ted Stevens Excellence in Public Service, Inc.," a 527 group that could raise unlimited funds from corporate donors. She served as one of three directors until June 2005, when her name was replaced on state filings. Stevens was indicted in July 2008 on seven counts of corruption.

Palin held a joint news conference with him in July, before he was indicted, to make clear she had not abandoned him politically.

This just keeps getting better. Palin - the gift that keeps on giving. "

Ruff Limblog wrote on Sep 1, 2008 12:57 PM:

" Electorally, California is 'the biggest state in the Union'.

Sarah Palin is forbidden by the US Constitution to negotiate or ratify treaties with foreign nations.

Evidently the Republican Talking Points operation has discovered a rich new deposits of slogans to post in local papers nationwide.

Some of the Republican-enablers must have been born yesterday on the turnip truck they fell off of this morning.

;o)

~McRuff "

common sense wrote on Sep 1, 2008 1:20 PM:

" Sickothis, you need to review your US history. While it is certainly true that "under God" was added to the Pledge in the 20th century, similar references by the Founding Fathers were abundant in numerous other documents. (And I'm not religious).

I'm much more concerned about former DNC chairman Fowler saying that Hurricane Gustav "...just demonstrates that God is on our side." Or Michael Moore's statement that Hurricane Gustave proves that there is a God.

Shameful. "

sickothis wrote on Sep 1, 2008 1:39 PM:

" California is the largest State in the Nation with 36.5 million people and the 9th largest economy in the world. Alaska is the 47th state with 683,000 people. Their primary export (other than oil) is seafood with more than 80% of the state's revenues derived from petroleum extraction. "

Madison Jay Hamilton wrote on Sep 1, 2008 2:05 PM:

" Alaska was the forty-ninth state to be admitted to the Union.

TrickleDown writes, "I am sure she has brokered many deals between the three nations." I challenge him/her to name and/or describe one. "

MarkMathews wrote on Sep 1, 2008 2:06 PM:

" musikluvr wrote on Sep 1, 2008 9:51 AM:

" The democrats have never had an electable candidate running in this presidential election including their nominee. They will strike out at anything that McCain does simply out of fear and frustration. "

Uh, that would be the highly touted CHANGE, CHANGE, CHANGE which the Obamaites have been shoving down our throats... "

Raven wrote on Sep 1, 2008 3:24 PM:

" so MM.....you are perfectly content with the continuation of the status quo?

and while there is the statement about the rights endowed by our creator in the Declaration...as well as the pledge on their sacred honor at the end of it....the founding fathers were pretty careful about throwing the words around around...even the 'so help me god' that presidents tack on to their oath of office is not in the constitution....they bent over backwards to keep religious references out of the documents because it would then bring up the discussion of whose God... "

Sickothis wrote on Sep 1, 2008 4:13 PM:

" Palin thought the Pledge of Allegiance was written by the founding fathers. She did not know that the VPOTUS is the President of the Senate, Chair of NASA. The heads of the Alaska State Legislature - all Republicans - believe her unqualified. Her hometown newspaper thinks she's unqualified.

Socially, she stated her opposition to abortion, even if it were her daughter that was raped. She wants to teach creationism (Christianity) in science class. She opposes all environmental conservation in her state, has ties to the AIP which is advocating secession of Alaska from the United States. "

common sense wrote on Sep 1, 2008 4:14 PM:

" sickothis says: "Alaska is the 47th state..."

MadJayHam says: "Alaska was the forty-ninth state..."

-Wait, now I'm confused. Alaska was the second to last state added to the Union, and Obama says there are 57 states. Wouldn't that make Alaska the 56th state? "

Sickothis wrote on Sep 1, 2008 4:14 PM:

" Oh - and she is a major proponent of abstinence only education is school. I won't state the obvious. "

russ wrote on Sep 1, 2008 4:32 PM:

" sicko,

You have some really big stuff there, on Sarah Palin, regarding the Pledge of Allegiance and the 2003 incorporation papers of the 527 group.

Pardon my yawn.

If you find some more nits to pick, be sure to post them here.

I am actually more concerned about Obama's associations with his good friend, the felon, Rezko and his good friend, the terrorist, Ayers. "

a teacher wrote on Sep 1, 2008 5:28 PM:

" This just keeps getting better. An ethics/abuse of power investigation back home, a husband with a DUI AND a pregnant, unwed under aged daughter.

Of course, the republicans want us to respect the family's privacy. Well they were so respectful during the Clinton's personal trial. AND the republicans would never stoop to insulting the daughter of a candidate, a child (remember McCain's "why is Chelsea so ugly" joke? Yuk Yuk)

My question of course is who vetted Palin? That speaks volumes about McCain's judgment. "

Sickothis wrote on Sep 1, 2008 5:44 PM:

" Heh Russ - your selective reading comprehension is astounding. "

mikeb wrote on Sep 1, 2008 5:51 PM:

" It seems a tad absurd for Obama supporters to argue against Palin for the VP spot based upon her experience, Obama has less experienced than Palin...and he's the TOP of the Dem ticket! "

musikluvr wrote on Sep 1, 2008 6:21 PM:

" I love it. The libs are foaming at the mouth that we will have such a great Republican Vice President. Look at what they have to try to deal with. Every democrat running in this election was a compromise and a failure. Then the two powerhouses succeeded in destroying each other in front of us and handing the election to the Republicans without a fight. "

TrickleDown wrote on Sep 1, 2008 7:20 PM:

" Skip M.: I checked the internet and it looks like you are right...we were never on the brink of war with Canada, so Sarah shouldn't get credit for that.

Madison Jay Hamilton: It looks like you were right too, according to my research, and Sarah Palin didn't broker any deals with these nations. Sorry about that.

However, Sarah is all for abstinence-only sex education for teens and I completely agree, so rather than vote for her for her foreign experience, I will vote for her for backing a brilliant plan to lower the teen pregnancy rate in this country. "

russ wrote on Sep 1, 2008 7:25 PM:

" Gustav has proven the competence of Republican governor's abilities and leadership skills once again.

The well-being of a state is principally the responsibility of it's governor. Bobby Jindal (R-LA), Haley Barbour (R-MS), Rick Perry (R-TX), Bob Riley (R-AL), Charlie Crist (R-FL) have managed their states through hurricanes Gusta and Fay. Add Jeb Bush for outstanding performance for 8 years before Charlie Crist.

The only Democrat in hurricane country was Governor Kathleen Blanco, (D-LA) who presided over the incompetence and disaster of Katrina. Too bad Bobby Jindal was not governor in 2005. Governors Perry, Barbour and Riley were heroic during Katrina.

I trust my life and well-being to Republicans, or as Ruff would say "Rethuglican-enablers" "

Sickothis wrote on Sep 1, 2008 8:04 PM:

" Heh... Sorry Russ, but Brownie (Hellova job - remember him?) just completely refuted your comments. All Gustav has proven was how insanely incompetent the Bush Admin was the first time around, and that they mercifully dodged a humongous bullet this time around. "

Madison Jay Hamilton wrote on Sep 1, 2008 9:24 PM:

" I want my children to enjoy healthy sex lives after they become adults. Abstinance only education does nothing to prepare young people for the time when sexual activity is healthy and appropriate behavior for consenting adults. Abstinance only education only prepares one for an adulthood in which sexual activity does not take place. For adults, I find chastity to be the strangest alternative lifestyle choice. I've read numerous reports regarding the failure of abstinance only educational programs to lower teen pregnancy rates. I'm guessing that Alaska's low population has little to do with the educational programs made available to its young people. "

plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Sep 1, 2008 9:27 PM:

" Gotta love the lefties foaming at the mouth, trying to smear Sarah. They're just upset that they didn't get Hillary. They can't throw inexperience around, even a governor of a small state has to make executive decisions. She can't just go to the office and vote "Present" like St. Obama did in the Senate. And I would rather have the inexperience in the VP slot than the top slot.

Then the lefties go on the attack on her family. Shameful. But that's OK, let them and snarl and drool and show their true standards.

Lefties are always shouting "shut up" and blocking speeches from anyone with a different viewpoint. If that doesn't work, then we get the twisted mind of some moron like Michael Moore talking about God! It would be funny if it was on SNL and not for real.

I can't wait for the VP debate between Old Joe "More of the Same Kind of Bloated Socialist Government" and Sarah Barracuda. Obama and Biden want to give us a return of the Clinton/Carter legacy and their failed policies. It appears that if you really want "Change You Can Believe In" you should vote for McCain/Palin.

With 'Biden on Board' voters should not expect any change except increased efforts to redistribute wealth. Tax cuts? What a joke! Corporations will just pass along higher taxes to us consumers, an isidious tax on lower income people.

I see the idea that a VP pick won't influence voters floated around - lefty wishful thinking - but where is the basis for that? Why did JFK pick LBJ if that was the case? Back to your history textbooks, lefties! I wasn't even going to vote in this election until Sarah Barracuda was chosen. "

kevin wrote on Sep 1, 2008 10:14 PM:

" Way to go Bobby Jindal! Now THAT'S how it's supposed to be done! "

danak6jq wrote on Sep 1, 2008 10:45 PM:

" Even by gubernatorial standards, Sarah Palin is a rookie; less than 2 years into her first term as governor of a state with a population less than that of metropolitan Fresno.

There are not really any hard questions that need to be asked; Sarah Palin fails on the easy questions. She's not ready to serve as President; thus she's not qualified to serve as VP. The GOP is phoning-in this election.

All I can think is that the more qualified Republican VP candidates have already given-up on '08 and are seeking to remain as untainted as possible for '12 - they also know this is McCain's last run at the Oval Office. "

Skip M. wrote on Sep 1, 2008 10:51 PM:

" Trickledown: I agree that Governor Palin is a great strategic pick. However, I have to agree with Ruff on the point that we (at least no one that I personally know) do not vote based upon the VP pick. The demise of a sitting president is a rare occurrence. While the VP is a safety net position, it is rarely called upon to fill the lead role.

Regarding Governor Palin’s position on birth control, abstinence, and teen pregnancy, her 17 year old daughter is pregnant. So much for the success of these programs and concepts. However, this actually makes Governor Palin an even better choice in my opinion. Governor Palin clearly faces the same family challenges that the rest of America faces every day. Governor Palin has a son in the military, as does Senator McCain. This takes the fire out of any opponent that might want to make the accusation “you’ll send poor people to war, but not your own kids”.

Policies you might want to look to when giving Governor Palin accolades; She has a record of rooting out corruption wherever she finds it, even in her own political party. Governor Palin actively supports drilling for oil in our own territories.

Just remember, all politicians are the same. They will inevitably tell you what they think you want to hear in order to get elected. We make our decisions, in the end, on how good of a job they do at figuring out what we want to hear. "

Sandra wrote on Sep 2, 2008 8:30 AM:

" I just couldn't help myself....Had to play this little game of let's change the nominee....Misfit said, and I adjusted:

"I am an [Palin] supporter. I think [Obama] is a great person and perhaps, a great [senator]. [He] might even make a great [ president] because, like with any of us who have maybe bitten off more than we can chew on our jobs, [he] may have the intangibles necessary that could allow [him] to excel. Unfortunately, [his] resume, in the real world, would have been thrown out as [he] would clearly not be able to step in as president. [He] was not even properly vetted.
It isn't often that you get hired anyway, despite that lack of experience.
The point of this is not all about [Obama] however. It says more about the judgment of [ the Democratic Party]....."
I have said before, you cannot have it both ways...though, by golly, you all do seem to keep trying anyway..... hysterical, isn't it?
And Sickofthis, "Palin thought the Pledge of Allegiance was written by the founding fathers." OMG where did you pick up this tripe? Did you infer this because someone said she felt if "under god" was in the pledge of allegiance, whiile also talking about the constitution and founding fathers, that it was good enough for her? I think a few of you need to work on your reading comprehension because you are making leaps in logic that are quite astounding.....
And quite relying on Moveon.org for your information..... "

Sandra wrote on Sep 2, 2008 8:51 AM:

" An ethics/abuse of power investigation back home...Yes indeedy there was...and why? Because she fired her ex-brother in law for making death threats towards her family. This is an illegal act on his part, and he was an officer of the law. Do you think a cop who was willing to make death threats would not cry foul? This is under investigation. Let's wait and see what comes of it before we start spreading ugly rumors, shall we?

and then we have this one:

"Stevens was indicted in July 2008 on seven counts of corruption.
Palin held a joint news conference with him in July, before he was indicted, to make clear she had not abandoned him politically"...You cannot even find anything about her, so you say that because she knows this guy that she is guilty by having workd on the same board with him? His charges have nothing to do with the board they worked on together. His "charges" have to do with claiming things were "gifts". And as of yet, they are STILL charges. This is also under investigation, and has very little to do with Palin, except she knows the senator.

Desperation thy name is "sick of this", and "teacher".... "

TrickleDown wrote on Sep 2, 2008 10:42 AM:

" Sandra, Sandra....I love that you say "let's wait and see what comes of it before we start spreading ugly rumors", immediately after spreading the hear-say (not admissible in court, mind you) about alleged death threats, and your repeating it here seems to be spreading a pretty ugly rumor about a person.

Hypocrisy at its best. "

Sandra wrote on Sep 2, 2008 11:05 AM:

" trickle down...Sarah Palins own words:

The trouble between Wooten and the governor’s sister broke into the open after an alleged incident in February 2005. Palin told an internal affairs investigator that she overheard on a speakerphone [trooper Michael] Wooten arguing with her sister and threatening to kill their father. Fearful for her family members’ lives, Palin said she drove to her sister’s house and watched the argument through a window.

“Wooten’s words were, ‘I will kill him. He’ll eat a [expletive] lead bullet, I’ll shoot him,’ if our father got the attorney to help Molly,” Palin said in an e-mail she wrote in August 2005 to the chief of the state police. “I heard this death threat, my 16-year-old son heard it (Track Palin), Molly heard it, as did their small children. Wooten spoke with his Trooper gun on his hip in an extremely intimidating fashion, leaving no doubt he is serious about taking someone’s life who disagrees with him.”

It is a pretty ugly threat to make, not an ugly rumor....
Just because it is not admissable in court does not make it "one the record", or untrue.

Hypocrisy my..... "

TrickleDown wrote on Sep 2, 2008 11:20 AM:

" Sandra: Hilarious that you call Sarah's side of the story fact. Just because Sarah Palin said it doesn't make it true either and your treating her statements as such while dismissing discussions of her acting improperly as rumor is, in fact, hypocrisy raised to art. "

Sandra wrote on Sep 2, 2008 12:09 PM:

" Trickledown, I am glad you are so easily amused.
My statements about Palin and her brother in law were in reaction to the words, " Palin, fired her brother in law because he divorced her sister". Now, that may not be a direct quote, but it is pretty accurate. Now if my providing more complete info to tell a clearer story is to be labeled as spreading rumors, and not as an attempt to clear up rumor....so be it.
I guess you perscribe to the theory "a best defense is a good offense". Personally I prefer to a complete story, not a partial a story.
And I think the original statement I was reacting to is definetly rumor and innuendo.
I do not think my providing documented proof as to what a person said is spreading rumors...quite the contray.
Hypocrasy raised to an art my ..... "

citizen wrote on Sep 2, 2008 1:10 PM:

" If McCain were not so old I would care little about Palin. However, there is a good chance she might be our president. Bottom line, she is not ready to be president. I care little about her personal life and much about her experience. She has only been out of the country one time; her environmental positions are frightening, for example, she is fighting to NOT put polar bears on the endangered list because she supports hunting them. She is supporting the attempt in Alaska to hunt animals from air planes (no challenge or fair hunt in that); and she supports big oil and drilling. Additionally, she does NOT support taking illegal, high powered weapons off of the streets; and she has this investigation hanging over her. I don't discount her achievements, many to be honored, but she is NOT in touch with the vast number of voters. She has lived her whole life in Alaska and has no Washington DC experience. McCain might have gained some evangelical and NRA votes but he has lost as many of the moderate republican votes. Moderates are very disappointed in the weak choice. "

Raven wrote on Sep 2, 2008 1:13 PM:

" but the bigger point is this Sandra....Palin should have had a hands off attitude towards the whole while she was the governor, hands off any personnel issue involving a member of her family.....if this were a Demo gov who did the same thing the wolves would be howling for her blood... "

Sandra wrote on Sep 2, 2008 1:22 PM:

" Absolutely not Raven. It was her responsibility to put an end to this if it was not being done so in the chain of command. No more good ol boy neywork, and I say good for her. "

TrickleDown wrote on Sep 2, 2008 1:48 PM:

" Man, oh, man, this gets better all of the time Sandra. The only mention of the investigation before you complained of people "spreading ugly rumors" was Teacher's on Sep 1, 2008 at 5:28 PM where he said "An ethics/abuse of power investigation back home." But wait! This is not an ugly rumor but an actual fact! The only mention of this story is factual and you complain of the spreading of ugly rumors with respect to this???? Best yet, you say that you were reacting to a quote along the lines of "Palin, fired her brother in law because he divorced her sister"....but wait, there isn't any mention of this her brother-in-law in the whole forum besides your own.

And, no, your line you quote is not a direct quote nor even remotely accurate. This is all too funny. Too funny indeed. "

freeport56 wrote on Sep 2, 2008 1:49 PM:

" 44 FBI agents were sent to Alaska to VeTT Palin as is standard procedure with any VP candidate.

Skip- I am getting sick of the nits here too.

It is hilarious to watch the over-reaction over Governor Palin. The lies and untruths are cracking me up. How much more than they make up about her deranged former brother-Law?
The guy made death threats, tazered his own son, and killed a moose illegally. He should not be a State Trooper at all. He violated several laws and as a Governor I would expect, no demand she get involved.


I hate it when the Dems panties get in a bunch, "

citizen wrote on Sep 2, 2008 2:00 PM:

" Great! Just what we need. Family squabbles and domestic violence in the White House. A good ole' Alaskan shoot-out in the Rose Garden, perpetrated by Palin's vengeful brother-in-law. This woman has too much baggage and too little experience.

Step down Sarah and go clean up your messes, see the world, visit DC a few times, and gain some real experience, before you come back for another run. "

Raven wrote on Sep 2, 2008 3:02 PM:

" freeport...those agents didn't go to Alaska till Thursday according to a story in the NY Times ... now as to the other matter, tell me one lie one untruth I have spoken about Palin? and if not me...who?....let's root out all the untruths and lies. "

musikluvr wrote on Sep 2, 2008 3:58 PM:

" Attacks on Governor Palin are mysogeny and sexist. "

musikluvr wrote on Sep 2, 2008 4:18 PM:

" Attacks on Governor Palin are sexist misogeny and gynophobia. "

Raven wrote on Sep 2, 2008 6:19 PM:

" nice musik, had to search a bit to find that one didnt ya "

Sandra wrote on Sep 2, 2008 6:20 PM:

" Trickledown...not on this page, but on another one the same acusation concerning her brother in law was made, using the words I stated. When I saw the same acusation surfacing here, I decided to clear it up before it ran amouk along with all the othe tripe being perpetuated.
Think what you will...obfuscation is obviously okie dokie with you as long as it is toward what you view as the opposition. I find it reprehensible when either side does it. You will find I have not said anything about Obama along this vein. And believe me he has plenty of fodder for this type of tactic also. "

russ wrote on Sep 2, 2008 6:43 PM:

" musik,

How about abortophiliac? "

a teacher wrote on Sep 2, 2008 8:54 PM:

" Sandra. That was uncalled for. I'm not desperate, I'm just enjoying the show.

I am neither impressed nor afraid of Gov. Palin. I think it will be viewed as a major mistake to select her. But I could be wrong.

My concerns with the good Governor is her complete lack of experience (I'm enjoying the pretzel logic as you all spin 18 months of being Governor and Mayor of a very small town) and the incident with her brother in law(which I find more serious than her inexperience - the chief executive has to be above that kind score settling).

As for her daughter, I fell bad for her. Her mom is dragging her into the spotlight at a very private moment. Kids make mistakes regardless of the quality of parenting, but I have to wonder about putting your kid through this.

Ruff is right when he points out that most of the people writing here aren't swayed one way or the other by either Obama's or McCain's veep selection. I'm not swayed nor worried. I have nothing to be desperate about. I am, however, highly entertained. "

plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Sep 3, 2008 8:32 AM:

" Ruff is wrong, I have changed my position and will support McCain because of Sarah. Someone else here also said the same thing. Nobody seems to remember JFK selecting LBJ in order to get southern votes. JFK and LBJ couldn't stand each other and were at opposite ends of the Democratic spectrum at the time. Why else would JFK have selected LBJ? Ruff, as usual, ignores history and twists reality to suit his own views.

It is interesting to see all the frothing at the mouth by the lefties, they must really be worried about Sarah energizing the ticket. If they weren't worried, why are they having hissy fits? "

Sandra wrote on Sep 3, 2008 9:13 AM:

" Teacher..This is exactly what I am refferring to when I say innuendo..

" the incident with her brother in law(which I find more serious than her inexperience - the chief executive has to be above that kind score settling).

As for her daughter, I fell bad for her. Her mom is dragging her into the spotlight at a very private moment. "

SCORE SETTLING? She went throught the chain of command to complain about her brother in laws death threats against her family. The Good 'ol Boy network was not willing to step in and take care of it. She STEPPED in. I say "Good for her, way to go, protect your family and do not put up with any crap from the status quo". Protecting your family is more important, it has NOTHING to do with settling a "score".
Palin "dragged" her daughter into the spotlight? So I guess every child of every candidate is "dragged" into the spotlight? Were Obama's children dragged? How about the Clintons...did they DRAG Chelsea?
Or do you say her daughter was dragged because she is pregnant? Are only pregnant women dragged? Sarah Palin did not announce her daughters pregnancy to the world, the Media did, and you can bet a small minded person from the opposition "Dragged" this fact out, and gave it to the media. Shouldn't the children of our candidates be off limits to this kind of sick behavior? Your take on this seems pretty twisted to me. I find the fact that the opposition is putting this kind of thing out reprehensible, and your twist on it only reveals how your mind works.
Shameful! "

Sandra wrote on Sep 3, 2008 9:19 AM:

" ppf...ruff is wrong much of the time.
I am with you on Palin. I was ambivilant towards McCain, but now feel as if there is someone worthy of my vote. And I have gathered information about Palin only because of "all the frothing at the mouth by the lefties". The claims were so outrageous, I had to dig to the bottom of them. And guess what I found? One damn fine Candidate, and her name is Sarah Palin. "

freeport56 wrote on Sep 3, 2008 9:24 AM:

" PPF-

It is even more interesting that the tolerant left could attack Governor Palin, her husband, and her 17 year old daugther they way they have been.

Just like the Nazi's, say it enough times and people will believe it. The reason the left is so upset is because Gov. Palin and her daugther have choosen not to have abortions. Had they had them, they would be heros to the left.

Very disturbing thought processes by the left. We must make sure they never gain power in this country. After twenty months in Congress they have still done "ZERO". "

plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Sep 3, 2008 11:06 AM:

" freeport56 - I look at the twenty months of this Congress doing "ZERO" as being a good thing! Think of the damage they could have done otherwise. "

Sandra wrote on Sep 3, 2008 12:53 PM:

" Teacher,
I have found some more info on Sarah's daughters pregnancy....seemed the opposition first put out that Sarah's downs syndrome child was really her daughters child....and that Sarah was covering up her daughter's unwed pregnancy.
Nice, huh? So what did Palin do? She took the bull by the horns and revealed the truth to the general public. Was it anyone's business? Should she have been forced into this situation by ugliness of rumors and innuendo? Absolutely not. But when she was, she did the honest thing. Seems the opposition is the one dragging Sarah's children into the spotlight to me. Seems Sarah Palin is conducting herself with a lot of dignity, and so is her family. "

a teacher wrote on Sep 3, 2008 2:50 PM:

" Sandra. Last night I read a few articles about the "troopergate" affair. Three things stick put.

1) Only one side's allegations have been heard, the Palin familly. No one has reported Officer Wooton's side. During divorces, especially with child custody involved, lot's of accusations fly. Some true, some exagerated, some out right falsehoods. Neither you nor I know what the truth is.

2) The Commisioner of Public Safety, the Man charged with handling the affair reported that the incident was investigated and the officer in question was disciplined as per department policy. Further, he warned the Palin familly AND the Governor to back off since their continued push to fire Officer Wooton could open the state to a law suit, especially since information from Wooton's personnel file was being leaked to add ammo to the investigation, a significant offense. The Commisioner was in fact doing his job to insulate the Governor from legal jeapordy. For those efforts, he was forced to resign.

3) While all the tapes that have been released about this involve only the aides to Gov. Palin, it would be a stretch to claime that they weren't done at her beheast.

Gov. Palin has a disturbing history of threatening people with their jobs for not "playing ball". TIME magazine reported that while mayor of Wasalia, she wanted certain books banned from the local library. When the Librarians refused, she threatened to fire them "For failing to support the Mayor". That is troubling to me. "

a teacher wrote on Sep 3, 2008 3:09 PM:

" Presidential candidates DO put their famillies in the spotlight. It's a significant factor in accepting a nomination. Colin Powell supposedly refused to pursue the Presidency because his familly objected. Gov. Palin is obviously an ambitious woman and I don't blame her for jumping at the oppurtunity to be veep, how many times is that likely to happen.

However, you have to wonder about how she feels about the cost her daughter will pay. I don't know if I would go for it if it were me, but then again, no one is offering me the job.

I have my questions about the timing. I don't believe that they were forced to reveal Bristol's pregnancy by internet rumours about Trig. Were they trying to keep the pregnancy quiet and hope that they could weather the storm later if elected and the truth came out? Or, did they decide that it was better to let it out early in the campaign, circle the wagons and wait until the controversy died down? I'm betting on the latter.

At any rate, it won't be the Governor's morals or familly problems that do her in. The "troopergate" thing and her inexperience is baggage that many Americans will be troubled about. Sen. McCain is 72 and has had Melanoma, one of the deadliest cancers, twice. There is a very real chance that Gov. palin may have to step in to his shoes. That is a sobering thought regardless of where one stands politically. "

cab e-girl wrote on Sep 3, 2008 5:18 PM:

" Et tu, teach? Attack a woman’s personal life for the good of the movement? Not to mention attacking a minor that made a poor choice. Hope your kids turn out perfect in every way. Nice of you to fail to mention that Governor Palin has gone after corruption on both sides of the fence, fail to mention all of the good that Sarah Palin has done. I smell hypocrisy at it's finest. Who are you to anoint the trooper in troopergate, pure as the driven snow? That story is not finished and I have a feeling Mrs. Palin acted appropriately because of her willingness to take on corruption. You keep attacking with the rest of rabid media and leftists. BTW the families of democrats are off limits to the media, conservatives are constantly attacked in the media just like Sarah Palin’s family is being attacked now.
And she has a husband with a twenty-year-old DUI. That’s it; she is totally incompetent, especially since the dems have an admitted former drug user running in the presidential slot. "

a teacher wrote on Sep 3, 2008 8:22 PM:

" cab e-girl: I've attacked no one. I have anointed no one pure as snow. I have not attacked a minor about her poor choice, I haven't even said it was a poor choice.

All I've done is to point out what the news reports. It raises questions.

The only poor choice I can see is McCain's. And the only defense of McCain and Palin I here is to puff up in indignation and cry foul.

Poor republicans, their candidate is a boob. "

Skip M. wrote on Sep 3, 2008 8:34 PM:

" A Teacher: I suppose you overlooked the fact that Wooton put his threats IN WRITING! Sort of like our little Ms. Cloud and her un-solicited confession to vandalism in the NVR. Once you put something in writing and send it off, there is very little you can do to turn back the clock.

Death threats are a criminal offense. We call it Terroristic Threatening. Wooton could have gone to prison for that. And to have a law enforcement officer cross that line is a dangerous proposition, regardless if it is your family being threatened, or a Governor’s family.

You can bet that if you make a death threat against a President, Vice President, a candidate for those offices, or their families, you will have the full attention of the Secret Service in short order. And chances are you will have a very bad day as a result. "

russ wrote on Sep 3, 2008 8:35 PM:

" teach says,

"Poor republicans, their candidate is a boob. "

Bad timing teach. "

cab e-girl wrote on Sep 3, 2008 8:41 PM:

" Teach- then you agree the MEDIA is unfairly attacking a woman candidate for reasons they would NEVER attack a man for? "

cab e-girl wrote on Sep 3, 2008 8:44 PM:

" Hey teach, did you bother watching Mrs. Palin's speech? "

Raven wrote on Sep 3, 2008 8:50 PM:

" actually cab-e-girl, the media isnt attacking it is reporting the attacks made by others and investigating claims made on both side....and it is amazing the 'sexism' defense is now suddenly very popular among Republicans but when Hillary's folks were claiming it i saw nothing but ridicule... "

a teacher wrote on Sep 3, 2008 8:55 PM:

" " I smell hypocrisy at it's finest. "

So do I. Hypocracy is attacking Obama on his lack of credentials and then nominating a person for the number 2 spot (with an excellent chance of having to fill the big shoes) someone who has arguable less credentials.

Hypocracy is filling the bandwidth with lies and innuendo about Obama and then crying foul when the other side points out actual facts (note that not one thing I said is made up, it's all public record AND I've been pretty fair to Gov. Palin).

Hypocracy is years of mysoginistic attacks against Hillary Clinton and then responding to legitimate questions about Gov. Palin by accusing the questioner of sexism. "

Hear Ye wrote on Sep 3, 2008 9:07 PM:

" Cab-e-girl-


Are you serious? We had to endure months and months of the media covering terrorist fist jabs, muslim in disguise, terrorist lover and on and on. Not to mention the complete character assassination of an American hero in 2004. Of course I'm sure you were condemning that, right? Really, I hope you were.

The state investigation and her ties to the AIP are fair game though. The conspiracy theory about her daughter having the newborn and nude photos and what not are crossing the line obviously and aren't getting hardly any mention from the mainstream media, rightfully so. "

a teacher wrote on Sep 3, 2008 9:11 PM:

" SkipM. None of that changes a thing. At the time of the alleged incident, the Palins were all private citizens, so it's not quite the same as making a threat against the Vice presidential candidate or the Govenor of Alaska.

No one has told the other side of the incident - there has to be another side. People do crazy things during divorces, he may be a perfectly reasonable person normally or he may be an SOB. The thing is, no one knows that.

The complaint was made, investigated and dealt with - he was disciplined. The Palins were not satisfied and used the office of the Governor to settle a personal score. Is that the model of government we want?

Even the citizens of Alaska, who generally supported Palin through this, had questions when it came out that Wooton's personnel file was being leaked to get him fired. That is an abuse of power. "

a teacher wrote on Sep 3, 2008 9:13 PM:

" " Teach- then you agree the MEDIA is unfairly attacking a woman candidate for reasons they would NEVER attack a man for? "

No, I don't agree and I never said anything like that.

" Hey teach, did you bother watching Mrs. Palin's speech? "

No, I barely watch TV during the school year. I have much too much to do these days. "

kevin wrote on Sep 3, 2008 9:29 PM:

" How great that she got right in B.O.'s face! This race is getting interesting... "

TrickleDown wrote on Sep 3, 2008 9:43 PM:

" Raven: that is so crazy...a double standard coming from the republican party? You mean the party that says that you cannot question anything about the service of our military, especially John McCain's service, but then shows up to their own convention in 2004 wearing band-aids with purple hearts on them? Surely it can't be this same party holding double standards. Don't even get me started on the experience double standard.

One of my favorite lines from tonight's convention came from the governor of Hawaii who said that Sarah Palin was a mayor of a city of 10,000. Let's see. 2000 census says 5300. Sarah Palin stopped being mayor in 2002. Close enough, I guess. A hexagon has six sides, or ten sides if you ask a republican governor "

TrickleDown wrote on Sep 3, 2008 9:52 PM:

" Can't wait for Sarah Palin to actually answer questions. Sure, she can give a speech to an audience that claps at the end of every sentence, but what happens when a question comes about, oh, I don't know...her vast dealings with the Russians which has given her the foreign policy experience the republicans have been touting, or her stance on teaching creationism in the schools 'side-by-side' with evolution, or how it can be argued that abstinence-only sex education is effective when all studies have shown it not to be, or how her "reform" position is any different than G.W. Bush's, etc., etc. She can't stay in hiding forever, although Republicans have tried to make that the norm starting with Cheney. "

cab e-girl wrote on Sep 3, 2008 10:23 PM:

" teach- Why is a 20 year DUI for a spouse relevant, but admitted drug use by Obama not. Why is Mrs. Palin's ability to perform her job in question, because she is a married mother of 5? Obama does lack credentials. He was a community organizer, and then served a few months in the senate. What has he ever done for this country? He has ties to Bill Ayers, an admitted terrorist. He bought his house, way below value from Tony Rescoe who is on his way to the big house for crimes he committed. He has no executive experience, but jabs at Palin because her executive experience is from a small town, which according to him and his campaign not relevant. He is inexperienced and his choice of associates makes me question his integrity. He has no answer for our energy issues. He thinks $5.00 a gallon for gasoline is okay, he just didn't think it would happen this quickly. He has no solutions for the economy. His national security policy is weak. He wants to take money from my family and give it to the social programs here and abroad. These are not personal attacks against his family or him. I am questioning his ability to lead based on his past poor decisions. Notice I didn't mention his children, his wife, his mother, his father. It is all about him.

As far as Hillary is concerned, I don't like her policies. The fact that she is a woman has no bearing to me whatsoever. "

cab e-girl wrote on Sep 3, 2008 10:24 PM:

" Trickle- Ever hear Obama interviewed? Uh, er, uh, um. "

cab e-girl wrote on Sep 3, 2008 10:31 PM:

" Too bad. You might have learned something you could have taught your students. I thought since you have time to post on these blogs that you might be interested in actually watching her speak, instead of listening to/reading the media reports about her speech. :) "

plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Sep 3, 2008 10:48 PM:

" I can't wait for Sarah Palin to actually answer questions too. I'm sure you won't like those answers as much as I probably will.

She has more executive experience than ObamaBiden all rolled up in one. Voting "Present" takes no moral willpower or great Solomon-like decision-making. We taxpayers had to send Obama on a trip to Iraq so he could claim actual foreign policy experience. He was also able to claim the endorsement of (maybe) 80,000 Berliners who came for free food and music. What do I care who they think should be our next president? Then he didn't even have the courtesy to visit the troops in the hospital, blaming it the military of course. (ever notice how a lefty is never at fault, it's always someone or something else).

The only comparison between Palin and Cheney is that they are both hunters. But the comparison is over immediately, she shoots the moose, not the other hunter.

So lefties, the initial wave of smear didn't hold up like you hoped. I'm sure you have more to dish out. Reminds me when your deity Bill Clinton told the media "leave the children out of it" referring of course to Chelsea's being caught in a situation that might be difficult to explain. And the lefty media lapdogs obeyed Bill.

Now everyone thinks Obama is such a nice guy telling the press to leave the kids out of it, but the background buzz is that the campaign is in full tilt running mode to churn out all the slime they can churn. Hillary learned how effective Obama's slime churners were, and I'll bet he's still got them on the payroll. "

TrickleDown wrote on Sep 3, 2008 11:26 PM:

" PinkFlaming: It is funny that discussing an ethics investigation is smear or asking that Palin be questioned on a teen sex-ed program that she backs and has been shown to fail is smear.

The executive experience argument is ridiculous. She also has more executive experience than John McCain, so we shouldn't vote for him either. By your "executive experience" argument Abraham Lincoln should have never been president. Nor John F. Kennedy. Of course being the mayor of a town of 6000 and the governor of the 47th most populous state in the nation for 20 months makes her better qualified than Abe or JFK.

Good solid argument for why executive experience is so important, indeed! Maybe we can just scratch Abe off of Rushmore and put Palin in right now. "

misfit wrote on Sep 4, 2008 6:20 AM:

" All Sarah did was read someone else's words. Big deal! I heard no mention of health care, the economy, the shrinking middle class. So, she delivers a good line...so what? Was that supposed to be inspiring?
Once again, the RepubliCONS resort to smarmy, back handed and nasty remarks and refuse to, or can't stay on topic. That whole show last night was pathetic. You did not even know who this woman was a week ago and now she is your savior?
BTW...When she was the Mayor of Wasilla, with 5300 population at the time, they had to hire a City Manager to assist her. Even though she took a pay cut, the budget increased because of that new position. She left the town with a 22 million dollar deficit when they had a surplus when she took office.

She has flirted with the Alaskan Independant Party, a radical, secessioist group. She attended their convention and her husband was a member.

And, no one has hammered her for being a woman. You people are the ones who say that she should be treated differently. Who's being sexist? Even your own people printed pins at the convention that say, "My VP is HOTTER than your VP." Nice!
She proved last night that she can play with the big boys so don't expect anyone to tip toe around her.
Also, she is the one who uses her family like a badge of honor and as props for photo ops then, they cry foul if any comments are made about them.
Please, just figure out what your values are and be consistent with them. "

kevin wrote on Sep 4, 2008 6:27 AM:

" "a teen sex-ed program that she backs and has been shown to fail"

Let's just say I have "personal experience" with the Califorina sex ed program. And it doesn't involve abstinance. In high school I was known as the "Johnny appleseed" of condoms! I had bag fulls of them and distributed them to all who wanted them.

I believed the propaganda the schools (and Planned Parenthood) was putting out that all I needed was proper "protection" and pregnacy was not an issue.

Well, like most information the government distributes, that was WRONG. Condoms have a HIGH failure rate (even when used correctly).

My girlfriend at the time ended up paying a terrible price for our foolishness.

I don't know if abstinence is the answer, but giving kids contraceptives and telling them to "get it on" (which is the signal kids get when given them) sure didn't work. Attacking Palin for her daughter's pregnancy is disingenuous at best... "

a teacher wrote on Sep 4, 2008 6:51 AM:

" Cab e girl: a few things. Grading papers and planning lessons takes a lot of mental energy. Responding here doesn't, so it is a welcome break.

I very rarely discuss politics with 12 year old students. I only answer direct questions truthfully. I teach Math so it doesn't come up much anyway.

The accuasations you've reitterated about Obama are politcal fluff, discredited or not much substance. The charges against Palin may prove to be the same. I noticed that you've left out the rather nasty attacks aginst Michelle Obama.

You may not personally have said anything about Hillary, but you don't have to look far to find the nasty sort of attacks she endured at the hands of conservatives. Just start with McCain. Here's a joke he told - "Why is Chelsea so ugly...". "

cab e-girl wrote on Sep 4, 2008 8:08 AM:

" The only attack on Michelle Obama was based on the fact that she said "For the first time in my life I am proud of my country." That is not an attack, but a question as to where her loyalties lie. "

Sandra wrote on Sep 4, 2008 9:23 AM:

" Hear we go again...You cannot have it both ways...you cannot attack one side and then say you do it because your side was attacked. This is what children do in the playground.
As for the media.....I watched Obama's speech, I watched Palin's speech. After both speeches I flipped around and viewed various commentary from the media. What I saw on many stations was denegration, and use of certain words to downplay the impact of the speeches. In my opinion, I do think the more liberal minded stations did this more than the conservative stations. In fact it was so blatent, and underhanded at times, that it was kind of funny. But I guess to a true believer it is what makes it all worth while....the affrimation of the cause and all......

As for discussing investigations...THAT IS NOT WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE. What is happening is the spread of misinformation to trash another. If we were discussing investigations the WHOLE STORY would be presented.
What is presented is rumor and innuendo to make another look bad. PLAYGROUND TACTICS... It is third hand information, latched onto by those desperate to tear another down. They are not interested in the truth, only making someone look bad so their side can "win".
When called on it they back peddle and say, " you did it first!" "

cab e-girl wrote on Sep 4, 2008 11:08 AM:

" Oh and the fact that Michelle referred to BO as her "Baby Daddy." She may be an Ivy League grad, but she showed poor judgment using the term. It's probably a good thing that someone has done some damage control in the Obama campaign and muzzleded Ms. Obama. "

TrickleDown wrote on Sep 4, 2008 11:19 AM:

" Sandra...you keep saying that what is being talked about Sarah Palin is rumor and innuendo. Here are a list of straight FACTS about Sarah Palin:

Sarah Palin is under investigation for improper use of power for firings related to her brother-in-law. Read the papers. This is a fact. You say that she did it because of death threats and threat your position like fact. If it was fact and there was evidence of death threats, do you think and investigation would continue?

Sarah Palin has been quoted as saying, and in fact ran her mayoral campaign on this platform, that abortion should be allowed only when the life of the mother is in danger. This position excludes rape or incest. Check Sarah Palin's position and quotes on this.

Sarah Palin supports abstinence-only sex education as the means of preventing and reducing teen pregnancy. This has been shown through studies to be an ineffective means of reducing teen pregnancy.

Sarah Palin continues, even in her acceptance speech last night, to use a refrain insinuating that she refused the federal money earmarked for the "bridge to nowhere." The fact is the earmark was removed already by congress and that she, for Alaska, kept the money that had been designated for that purpose. In addition, as mayor she hired a lobbyist to petition for the millions and millions of dollars in earmarks her city received while she was mayor.

Sarah Palin, though republicans treat it otherwise, has no foreign relations experience with Russia. Being across a strait from another country as governor for 20 months does not give you foreign relations experience unless you deal with that country. "

Sandra wrote on Sep 4, 2008 11:26 AM:

" Twice now Misfit has refferred to Palin as reading someone elses words. I have to wonder, are you claiming that Obama does not use speech writers? I ask this beccause an Obamanite that I work with has also made this claim. I have to wonder, where do you guys get this stuff? Obama uses speech writers, just like every other politician does. Did this misinformation come from his camp? If so, do you believe everything else his camp says just as easily? If this is the case, it really makes me wonder about you guys.... "

Sandra wrote on Sep 4, 2008 11:32 AM:

" Trickledown, thanks but I know her stances. I also have said that I disagree with many of them.
You miss my point...that old tunnel vision kicking in again?
I could repeat myself ad nauseum...but why bother? You do not get what I am saying, after numerous attempts.
I am speaking of innuendo, rumors and half truths used to denegrate. She is able to stand up under the whole story, which you will hopefully see as it unfolds....but then again you probably won't. It is hard to see the scenery from a tunnel. "

bettye wrote on Sep 4, 2008 11:36 AM:

" First of , let me say to Sandra ..My panties are fitting well today , thank you .. I am very disgusted however that the main issues facing our nation are not being addressed.. i.e. Russia, China , Darfur, Iraq , Iran .. all of the middle East .. No. Korea. the economy , health care , foreclosures etc. etc. etc... All people seem to be doing is tearing the other party apart. The moral issues seem to be uppermost in the minds of the Republicans .. Passing laws to keep gays from marrying and women from having abortions are NOT going to change people.. If laws could make peop[le do right ..we would still be under the 10 Commandants .. Sure we need laws ,but the Gov. should STAY OUT of the personal lives of folks and try to get this nation on tract again .. I am really disgusted with these blogs that seem to take the real issues so lightly .. PEOPLE , WE ARE IN TROUBLE AND QUIBBLING ABOUT WHICH PARTY IS THE BEST is not going to solve anything. Go ahead and enjoy your joking around the issues ..as for me .. I am just going to keep my panties untwisted and vote for the one I believe will change the direction of this nation "

Hear Ye wrote on Sep 4, 2008 1:59 PM:

" Sandra-

It is widely reported that Obama writes the majority of his speeches. If you choose to believe that it's up to you but thats what outsiders and insiders say. "

a teacher wrote on Sep 4, 2008 3:13 PM:

" Sandra: I agree with you, the whole "troopergate" storey has not been told. Trooper Wooton's side has not been heard. The real issue here is that the Governor allowed a personal matter to become a public matter against the advice of people who knew better. This is not about her enemies setting her up, SHE did this.

But, none of that matters. What matters is that the McCain campaign should be talking about McCain, but now they have to talk about her, and that, I think, is a big mistake. McCain should have gone with Romney or Pawlenty. Less controversy, more substance. "

a teacher wrote on Sep 4, 2008 3:55 PM:

" Kevin: the research on abstinence only is that it is ineffective at reducing teen pregnancy. The best results come from abstinence AND sex education. "

plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Sep 4, 2008 4:17 PM:

" I had not read or heard that, but it would be incredibly surprising that someone on the campaign trail for so long through the primaries also had time to write all of his speeches, a time consuming task.

On the other hand, if that's the case, he can't blame some poor speechwriter for the line about visiting 57 states. "

misfit wrote on Sep 4, 2008 4:50 PM:

" The difference Sandra, is that Obama isn't a puppet or a poster boy for anyone. His words are his own. He's been running for president for almost 2 years and isn't some fly by night, afterthought, thrown into the ring in a desperation move to garner votes from the right wing wackos that have been running this country for too long. Clearly the strategy is working on you. Can't you see through it? "

misfit wrote on Sep 4, 2008 4:55 PM:

" You know what guys...the rumors and innuendo are put out there by RepubliCONS to detract from the reality that they DO NOT have any answers to any of the issues facing this country.
More jobs lost announced again today. Great job CONS! But, you don't care about those things do you? "

Hear Ye wrote on Sep 4, 2008 6:10 PM:

" PPF-


He doesn't write EVERY word of all his speeches. He has a chief speech writer who works with him. He did however write his 2004 keynote entirely on his own. "

Raven wrote on Sep 4, 2008 7:57 PM:

" kevin, having sat on curriculum advisory boards, in the bay area, not in Napa, and I have yet to see an sex education program that advocated children have sex and it should say something about the effectiveness of the fed's abstinence only sex ed that school districts turn it down even though it comes with federal funds as a carrot...so I would be very interested to know what school district had such a program.....

btw...with proper instruction and use, latex condoms are 97 to 98 percent effective... "

cab e-girl wrote on Sep 4, 2008 8:51 PM:

" Raven-97% effective if it is used correctly, and kids are not always that careful. Without using it completely correctly, it is only 86% effective. "

TrickleDown wrote on Sep 4, 2008 9:31 PM:

" Sandra---where is the innuendo? Where are the rumors? There are facts out there on the table. Sarah Palin is a highly partisan pick as VP to solidify the base and as a sad, transparent selection hoping that women will say "Gee, Palin is a woman and I am a woman so I will vote for her even though her stances are far from mine." Apparently it is working for some, but luckily most women are too smart for this. "

sandra wrote on Sep 4, 2008 11:27 PM:

" Hear ye, "Wildely reported" by whom? Google Obama and speech writers...do a little reasearch, you will find being widely reported does not make it so. This is what worries me about you guys who believe anything about Obama that fits your preconcived view of him...You are all ripe for being led around by the nose. Heck, you are not just ripe, you have moved into spoiled.... Why would you hand over your logic to a demagog? Obama, or anyone? ....you have lost all perspective on reality....

Bettye, glad your panties are fine...mine too. (Well, maybe they are a little twisted at the moment.) I happen to agree with you. We are not talking about issues because people are just too darn busy trying to smear other candidates, Does it make any sense what so ever?
Most of my posts have been trying to bring truth to light to end the nonsense. No one is interested. They would rather make leading statements to denegrate.
Look at trickledowns "Sep 4, 2008 9:31 PM" post. He says,"where is the innuendo? Where are the rumors?" What is the point in even asking this? He cannot be that dense, can he? He only needs to scroll up, or look at some of the other posts on other pages to see more than enough. Teacher says he agrees with me, yet he engages in it. Misfit says, "The difference Sandra, is that Obama isn't a puppet or a poster boy for anyone..." And by this casts dispersion without basis or substance at those he disagrees with. Then he says its not us, its them!!! I can only shake my head and wonder at the audacity, and blindness. This small minded nastiness only reflects on those engaging in it. "

a teacher wrote on Sep 5, 2008 6:18 AM:

" cabegirl, " Raven-97% effective if it is used correctly, and kids are not always that careful. Without using it completely correctly, it is only 86% effective."


Which is still better than nothing. So lets sum this up. Abstinence only MAY(some evidence shows) delay the first sexual experience for some and MAY(some evidence shows) curtail the number of sexual partners. In some cases. However, abstinence only produces kids who are less likely to use birth control when they are sexually active.

Abstinence is not a bad message. Having some knowledge of your options is also a good. "

cab e-girl wrote on Sep 5, 2008 8:09 AM:

" Having raised daughters (and sons), I happen to believe that it is more than a physical act. Teenage girls are not equipped to emotionally deal with the consequences of premature sexual activity. Pregnancy is only one of the consequences, STD's, emotional trauma and life time consequences due to STD's are just a few. There is a book by a college psychologist called "Unprotected." I would highly recommend it to any parent raising a teenage daughter. "

winemd wrote on Sep 5, 2008 9:25 AM:

" I could be wrong about this, but my impression about sex education programs is that they come from the viewpoint that abstinence is virtually impossible (or at least that is what many supporters say), so they devote about 2 seconds to it by saying that abstinence is the only 100% effective method of preventing pregnancy or disease and leave it at that. I am fine with comprehensive sex education, but I would like to see the students engaged in a serious discussion of why it would be a good idea to actually choose abstinence, instead of yes, that is one option, but since most of you won't choose it, here is how to put on a condom. In an ideal world, parents would be the ones having "the talk" with their children, but unfortunately there are many who don't and that needs to be addressed. My children are 11 and 9 and we have had many discussions over the years about how our bodies work (including reproduction), and what the consequences of our choices are, whether it is having sex, or drinking alcohol, or smoking, or doing drugs. We are encouraging our children to abstain from sex, at least until they are adults (preferably until marriage, but if they don't, I won't disown them), to abstain from smoking altogether (I just don't see anything positive there), and that wine is a beverage that adults can drink responsibly. We have allowed them to try a sip of wine on occasion (we are home winemakers and they have seen the process up close and personal). In my experience when something is a big mystery, they are curious, so they try it. If something is forbidden, they often try it in rebellion. By having conversations, I hope to prevent those reasons. "

XMAN wrote on Sep 5, 2008 9:41 AM:

" Sarah Palin is a breath of fresh air in a climate that is full of cronies and corruption. My interest in this election has be revitalized by her being appointed as a running mate. "

cab e-girl wrote on Sep 5, 2008 3:11 PM:

" Winemd- like I said in my earlier post, read "Unprotected", because it does deal with the overall picture and the importance of making sure your daughters and sons are well informed. I believe if you give your children all the facts, they will make good choices. The problem with sex ed in the schools is they don't give all of the facts. The book gives very strong statistics that kids can relate to as well as their parents. "

Hear Ye wrote on Sep 5, 2008 3:42 PM:

" Sandra-


Like I said the first time, It has been widely reported that he writes most of his speeches. You don't have to believe it, I don't have to believe it but thats what I've read and heard quite often. I think you missed my point. Oh and I have googled obama and speechwriter. There are some great articles about that young talent. Also some great articles on Obama and his ability and knack for writing more speeches and taking an active part in others than virtually any other major politician "

a teacher wrote on Sep 5, 2008 5:40 PM:

" Cab e girl: Having raised daughters and sons, I agree with you. Sounds like good argument for sex education. "

Sandra wrote on Sep 5, 2008 8:04 PM:

" Hear ye, my point is that you cannot claim, as many have, that the man writes his own speeches all of the time.
Every politician has input in his or her speeches, as Obama does. This is nothing new, but go ahead and believe it means more than it does, if it makes you happy.
Obama has a really good marketing machine in place. He is a very astute politician. Did you ever wonder how he got to where he is without ever having to run against any opponent until this race? Every other person dropped out or was disqualified. He always has kept his nose clean. He is a smart man. BUT, he does not walk on water. He is just a man. "

Hear YE wrote on Sep 5, 2008 10:27 PM:

" Come on Sandra, you act as if I support him because I heard he writes speeches. It's real easy for me, I look at where I stand on all the issues facing our country and I see where the candidates line up. I mean really, It's really that easy! Sure I wish Obama could win me over a bit more on Energy plans but I'm also glad that he doesn't just scream "Drill now! Drill Everywhere!" to the chants of "U.S.A.".

Of course Obama has a great marketing machine. Every politician has to if they want to win an election. You can't just say what you believe in then hide in your room until election day, You have to go out there and sell yourself to the public. As far as his "celebrity " status, well that's just a talking point. McCain is the one all over the late night talk shows and the cameo in movies. I think it's funny when that if a candidate gets you excited about politics that you think of him as God-like. That's awfully dismissive.

Just look at the last election that the Republicans turned into mocking a vietnam hero and now it's all about honoring and respecting a vietnam hero. None of it has to do with being a good president but it's all we hear and much of the public eats it up. It works both ways. "

cab e-girl wrote on Sep 5, 2008 11:56 PM:

" Teach- So the real question is do children get it from their parents (who have a vested interest and involvement to their children) or a bunch of bureaucrats (who in theory, it takes a village)? My vote goes to the parents. But them again I believe in personal responsibility for both the parents and the child. "

a teacher wrote on Sep 6, 2008 10:03 AM:

" cab e-girl, first of all, educators are NOT a bunch of bureaucrats. They are trained professionals who will have some knowledge of your child. Secondly, I would argue that a basic knowledge of sexual biology and contraception are in societies best interest and relying on parents to teach the facts is not that effective.

The real issue is morality. I don't see how knowing the facts conflicts with the morality of sexual activity. Consider this fact: children who have been taught how to use guns are less likely to be involved in gun deaths. Knowing about guns doesn't lead you to use one recklessly, in fact it's the opposite. I would argue the same for sex ed. Let parents deal with morality, let schools deal with education. "

a teacher wrote on Sep 6, 2008 10:28 AM:

" I have been rethinking the selection of Gov. Palin as McCain's veep and I've decided that rather than being a mistake, it's a rather shrewd political move on his part. I think that the McCain campaign probably knew everything about her and decided the following:

-picking her would shore up the social conservativesevangelicals.

-the controversy around her would stir up the media which could be spun as attacks by the "liberally biased" media. Her "victimization" could be used to fire up the base.

-additionally, her notoriety would distract the public from issues that are not so good for the republicans - the economy, the war, Bush.

-without her, the Republican Convention would have been unmemorable.

The Obama campaign seems to have decided that the best tactic is to politely ignore her and hope that she comes off as "Sara the insult politician". It might work, but probably not.

I'm watching Mike Huckabee on the Daily Show and I wish that McCain had picked him. He is a hoot and a genuinely good guy. I'd take him over Palin anyday of the week. "

Ruff Limblog wrote on Sep 6, 2008 11:16 AM:

" I confess! The 'enhanced interrogation' techniques approved by Bush and McCain have worked their magic...

I like Obama's speeches! And like me, millions of people get inspired by Obama's speeches!

And I confess... I don't care if Obama has some help writing them!

However, this is an extremely shallow criticism of Obama to me.

Maybe you should be complaining that John Dubya McCain is still using Bush's speechwriters instead of getting some good ones like Obama has?

The same old policies and the same old speechwriters? Really!?!

Sounds like more of the same to me, except John McCain does actually have a war record we can be proud of.

Maybe now you understand why so many millions of middle class Americans don't want the Bush third term that John Dubya McBush represents.

Even the best orator and speech writers would have a hard time making the Bush/McCain record of failure for the last eight long years sound good.

It's really sad... the latest numbers coming out say that more people watched McCain's acceptance speech than Obama's speech a week earlier...

Many of them, like me, were disappointed at the lack of substance.

I will hand it to the Republicans though - the seats that were full did have a lot of happy elitists clapping like crazy!

Nothing rich elites like better than knowing their candidate will protect their houses from the rabble of newly foreclosed homeless middle class, and the hundreds of thousands of newly unemployed, eh?

~Ruff "

Raven wrote on Sep 7, 2008 9:35 AM:

" so...if Palin is all that she is being held up to be....why hasn't she done a single interview since she was introduced? "

russ wrote on Sep 7, 2008 6:30 PM:

" Ruff, when I look at the delegate map of the United States, the states I see in red are in the heartland of America. Sure doesn't look like states full of elitists to me.

When I see the states in blue, I say to myself, hmmmmm, that's where the elites live.

When one looks at demographics by income and party affiliation, one finds the the richest are Democrats. Recall your frequent mention of Warren Buffett, how about George Soros, all of the Hollywood movie stars and producers.

The 6th richest senators are Democrats. The poorest senator is Joe Biden. Does that mean he is the dumbest?

Proof positive. "

a teacher wrote on Sep 7, 2008 7:24 PM:

" Yeah Russ, aside from being one of the more ignorant things you've said recently, it's also factually false. Individually, the rich vote republican. It's not even close, like 60/40. Try again

I love it when the conservatives paint liberals as elites, like they're not. Bush(an Ivy league Graduate - Yale AND Harvard) may paint himself as someone you'd like to have a beer with, but what makes you think he'd have a beer with any of you all. He's probably have a cute nickname for you though. "

Raven wrote on Sep 7, 2008 7:34 PM:

" hmmm......By that logic, the sun came up over Maine and a tree fell in Minnesota, therefore the sun caused the tree to fall....

wealth has no bearing on intelligence...or common sense.....if the richest are democrats and they are supporting increasing their own taxes to help improve the country's finances, what does that make the wealthiest republicans? "

PlasticPinkFlamingo wrote on Sep 7, 2008 10:43 PM:

" Obama campaign attempts to portray McCain as Bush's third term are not working (don't tell ruff). Bush's approval rating is in the low 20's while McCain is near 50% and climbing (thank you, Sarah). So obviously the American voters are not buying that big lie. But hey, you don't have to believe me, just keep wasting your time and ad money pushing that tired 'talking point'.

There is no doubt (except maybe for hardcore Dems who will find a way to twist the facts) that McCain has a far better record on bipartisanship in the Senate than Obama does, because Obama has . . . none. So why should we believe that all of a sudden Obama is going to change? Oh yeah, Obama keeps talking about change, but the change is himself! He keeps changing depending on where he is or whether the polls go up or down based on some holy pronouncement he makes. That's the kind of change you can believe in!

It is gratifying to see the leftist media smear campaign on Sarah is getting a real backlash now. People are disgusted with the Dem smear attacks. Keep it up Dems, keep pushing those voters over to us.

Now Obama is even saying that the Bush tax cuts may not be rescinded right away, probably because all the talk about "I'll make money available to you" stuff has voters asking questions like "where's the money going to come from?" and "how are the children going to keep the farm when the death taxes go up?" and "what will I do without a job when my company goes out of business because of high taxes?"

Dems don't like it when voters ask questions. "

PlasticPinkFlamingo wrote on Sep 7, 2008 10:48 PM:

" Raven - it makes the republicans smarter than the democrats, who haven't figured that out yet.

Actually, I'd like to see Ted Kennedy pay some tax for a change. He and his family avoid the death penalty taxes with a series of trusts and other tax dodges. TK exemplifies hypocrisy at it's worst. "

russ wrote on Sep 8, 2008 1:55 PM:

" teach,

You are a math teacher, you know the importance of facts and data. You provided no facts or data in your comment that would support your point about elites and Republicans.

How about this one.

Elites are primarily liberals.

Let's just take a look at the Senate. Who are the elites and who are the liberals there?

I am trying to think of the Republican elites. John Warner and..............??

Quote from Wall Street Journal 2002: Have things changed?

"When the latest Congressional wealth figures came out last week, we learned that no fewer than 40 U.S. Senators are millionaires. But more intriguing is the fact that the richest among them are all liberals." "

Raven wrote on Sep 8, 2008 5:49 PM:

" and how do you define elite?...pretty broad brush cuz it seems it is okay to be a republican elite but not a demo elite?

and ppf, seems to me it makes the republicans a group who talk a good game of sacrificing for their country as long as it doesn't cost them any money "

a teacher wrote on Sep 8, 2008 7:17 PM:

" Well Russ, you could go t the exit poll data from the 2006 election. That shows that as income increases, the percentage of people voting republican increases. As income decreases, the percent of people voting democratic increases. Exactly the opposite of what you're saying.

You could google "red_state_blue_state+revised.pdf" which addresses this issue.

Your argument is based on a faulty data collection method, namely, it compares states on all levels BUT population. The 10 poorest states (all republican) are also among the 10 smallest states. The two biggest states, CA and NY tend to vote Democratic. The populations of CA and NY is close to 50 million. The population of those poorer, smaller states? probably not far off 50 million.

Furthermore, wealth is not evenly distributed, so a rich state can be carried by the vast majority of poor people. So going by state (that is the argument you people are making), is a misleading methodology.

Methods that go by the aggregate of voters, ie exit poll data, the US census or voter rolls show the richer you are, the more likely you vote republican. "

a teacher wrote on Sep 8, 2008 7:29 PM:

" Again Russ, you are using a misleading, fallacious argument. Either you are not using your critical thinking skills on those emails you're getting from the RNC, or you are just making this stuff up.

Here is what is wrong with your argument:

- your definition of "elite" seems to be liberal senator (circular logic)

- you are conflating "wealthy" with "elite"

- you are making a quantum leap of logic by claiming that since democratic senators are "elite" (by your definition of elite which is that they are liberal democratic senators who are wealthy), therefore liberals are elitist That is like saying 2+ 2 = pink.

Try again. Try using logic this time. "

PlasticPinkFlamingo wrote on Sep 8, 2008 10:06 PM:

" and raven, seems to me it makes the democrats a group who talk a good game of sacrificing for their country as long as it doesn't cost them any money " "

Raven wrote on Sep 9, 2008 5:07 AM:

" so explain to me how the republicans sacrifice anything by continuing the tax cuts plan in the face of almost a half a trillion dollars in deficits.... "

PlasticPinkFlamingo wrote on Sep 9, 2008 9:55 AM:

" so explain to me why Obama is now saying that the tax cuts won't be rescinded . . . "

Raven wrote on Sep 9, 2008 5:16 PM:

" means he is using sound judgement and adapting his policy to fit the situation...a recession....and how do the republicans sacrifice anything by having the tax cuts continue? "

PlasticPinkFlamingo wrote on Sep 9, 2008 9:49 PM:

" so why are tax cuts good, and then not good at the same time? sounds more like a lefty senator flip flop . . . "

PlasticPinkFlamingo wrote on Sep 10, 2008 8:33 AM:

" Now the Dems want another economic stimulus for $50 billion. So tax cuts are always bad unless Pelosi and Reid say they are OK?

How do the democrats sacrifice anything by having the tax cuts continue? "

Sandra wrote on Sep 10, 2008 1:37 PM:

" F.Y.I right off factcheck.org :

1. Palin did not cut funding for special needs education in Alaska by 62 percent. She didn’t cut it at all. In fact, she tripled per-pupil funding over just three years.

2. She did not demand that books be banned from the Wasilla library. Some of the books on a widely circulated list were not even in print at the time. The librarian has said Palin asked a "What if?" question, but the librarian continued in her job through most of Palin's first term.

3.She was never a member of the Alaskan Independence Party, a group that wants Alaskans to vote on whether they wish to secede from the United States. She’s been registered as a Republican since May 1982.


4. Palin never endorsed or supported Pat Buchanan for president. She once wore a Buchanan button as a "courtesy" when he visited Wasilla, but shortly afterward she was appointed to co-chair of the campaign of Steve Forbes in the state.


5. Palin has not pushed for teaching creationism in Alaska's schools. She has said that students should be allowed to "debate both sides" of the evolution question, but she also said creationism "doesn't have to be part of the curriculum." "

Raven wrote on Sep 10, 2008 1:39 PM:

" they sacrifice a chance at reducing the deficit among other things ... "

PlasticPinkFlamingo wrote on Sep 10, 2008 8:08 PM:

" More correctly, the Dems figured out if they turned off the tax cuts now the economy will collapse and they will (rightly) be blamed for their stupidity. They sacrifice nothing by letting the tax cuts stand. This discussion should be in the thread "Democratic Cowardice". If they had the courage of their convictions they would do what they whine about. But then their policies would be conclusively proven to be bankrupt (pun intended). "

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