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Browns Valley subdivision gets commission OK
Tuesday, August 26, 2008
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By KEVIN COURTNEY
Register Staff Writer
The Napa Planning Commission is recommending approval of a 14-home subdivision, The Hollow, served by a new bridge over Browns Valley Creek, east of Browns Valley Market.

Ten custom homes would be spaced over five acres at the lower level, with four houses on large lots on the upper reaches of the site.
Lee Broad of Napa is the developer. The forested property contains two houses and two barns that would be removed as well as an old orchard.

The 10-acre property is surrounded by Browns Valley Market, the Moose Lodge, several houses and Green Valley condominiums. It abuts the city’s rural urban line to the south.
Served by a private street off Browns Valley Road, The Hollow would feature custom homes of between 2,485 and 2,970 square feet.

The lower houses would be screened from view by creek vegetation. The four higher houses would be visible from other elevated properties in Browns Valley, city staff said.
The date of the City Council hearing has not been set.
46 comment(s)

angrytoo wrote on Aug 25, 2008 11:07 AM:

" Gee..............what a great idea!! Why don't you just put another hotel up there too why you're at it. "

wined0wnnapa wrote on Aug 25, 2008 12:33 PM:

" sounds good, ill take three. kahn "

BKF wrote on Aug 25, 2008 12:35 PM:

" Hey angrytoo:

We do need to add homes to accommodate for population growth. Seems like a natural place to build. Where do you recommend new homes be built? Or were you just venting? "

mominapa wrote on Aug 25, 2008 1:25 PM:

" Great, just as I have been saying: Napa will soon exist only for the elite and those who serve them. I would love to buy a house in Napa Valley and stay here for the rest of my life. I have worked at the same job for 20 years, shown that I am stable and a good member of the community. Without revealing how much, I make more now than my father did when he retired 25 years ago and I am considered low in- come. My parents owned a home in Napa and were actually able to survive here on what I make now while it is impossible for me to survive here, not to mention buying a house. Retirement comes soon and the economy has made it impossible for me to stay where I can watch my grandchildren grow up. The State of California has let me down and so has the City of Napa by not allowing a good, hardworking member of society buy a house here. I'm very disappointed. "

NapaCurious wrote on Aug 25, 2008 1:35 PM:

" Ten expensive custom homes hardly accommodates the population growth. Are you sure we NEED them?? "

angrytoo wrote on Aug 25, 2008 1:53 PM:

" BKF - I'm referring to the mortgage crisis out there and how many homes are sitting empty yet we are building more that range from 2500-3000 feet in size. I reckon I'm also venting because we can't seem to get any affordable housing around here anymore. You are either stuck buying a 60 + year old 2 bedroom home on the cusp of the ghetto or one that shares a common wall, has no yard and is 2-3 stories high. Or like myself and my family you are forced to buy outside of Napa. I agree with Mominapa, it is disappointing and quite saddening to not be able to afford the town that you love and grew up in. "

NapaFurriesMom wrote on Aug 25, 2008 2:16 PM:

" Great, because Hidden Hills & Carmel Drive wasn't enough houses to add to Browns Valley Road congestion - not! How will they sell in this economy? "

proudmama2 wrote on Aug 25, 2008 2:20 PM:

" My husband and I find ourselves extremely lucky to have been able to buy our first home in Napa. We both grew up here and thought it would be impossible. I am concerned about the people who will purchase these big homes for their weekend "getaways" and not be concerned with the traffic, etc that any new housing development brings. Enough is enough, I say!!! "

Listening wrote on Aug 25, 2008 2:37 PM:

" The City of Napa adopted an ordinance requiring inclusionary zoning, which means 10 percent of homes build in a subdivision must be affordable. Yet the majority of the Council let the developer off by allowing developers to pay a fee instead of building such houses. The rules should make it so it is MANDATORY to build the inclusionary zoning without fees but require affordable housing. The Bible might state The Poor Shall Inherit the Earth - but in Napa it is the elitists that will inherit Napa. "

msinformd wrote on Aug 25, 2008 2:59 PM:

" Kevin says it all agian! "

cathyodom wrote on Aug 25, 2008 3:01 PM:

" So when does that new fire station go in Brown's Valley? What is now, 6 minutes to get a fire truck out there? I hope that's on the "disclosure" part of the contract when buying these homes. "

angrytoo wrote on Aug 25, 2008 3:04 PM:

" What constitutes as "affordable"? "

msinformd wrote on Aug 25, 2008 3:06 PM:

" All for some and one for sprawl! "

msinformd wrote on Aug 25, 2008 3:14 PM:

" Angrytoo, if you have to ask, you can't afford it! "

napablogger wrote on Aug 25, 2008 3:26 PM:

" mominapa and all, if you want more affordable housing then you want more building. The only way that prices are really going to come down and stay down is with constant building. Supply and demand, the supply of land is low in Napa so it is costly.

The fact is that like gas prices, the cost of housing is never really going to go down that much again, short of a massive population exodus out of here.

Building high end homes means some people at mid level homes move up, and some people at lower level homes move up to the mid level. So any building helps the overall market contain price increases.

You want the government to snap its fingers and solve your problems for you, but it can't. The market moves on its own based on factors that the government cannot control.

Also, to listening, the fees do help. The government has to pay for the affordable housing somehow, and the funds they collect help them create more of it. That is why they do it. Believe me, the developers are not getting away with anything around here, we are soaking them big time. "

msinformd wrote on Aug 25, 2008 3:40 PM:

" You have it all wrong! The supply of land is not low in Napa, nor is the supply of people willing to pay too much. "

Listening wrote on Aug 25, 2008 3:58 PM:

" Sorry Napablogger, the City is not using the funds to build affordable housing elsewhere. The bulk of funds for affordable housing come out of redevelopment funds - and that is somewhat of a farce too. How was the City's affordable housing fund used recently - to bail out the County for two farmworking projects in Calistoga and south of the City of Calistoga. "

Straight Talk wrote on Aug 25, 2008 4:25 PM:

" For more information about the project, readers may want to visit:

www.napavalleylandauctions.com "

kdbk wrote on Aug 25, 2008 6:43 PM:

" Of course, sample a group of people and there's bound to be a least one person (in this case, BKF) who's income depends on the ongoing process of building and growth. But why not come down off thine high horsey just a wee bit, BKF?

Really? It's all just as simple as you put it? Wow, fascinating: "We's needums some morums of them thar luxury housems and that's all there is'n to it".

Gosh, if only we'd thought of that.

The fact is that more and more these days, there are greater numbers of people in the "slow growth" camp who hold conservative, capatilist, free-market values dearly, but who also realize quite plainly that a community can lose its quality of life if too-too much growth takes place. It ain't the tree-hugging, crazy left fringe that is opposing such growth these days. It's most people who value their quality of life.

The funny thing about people like BKF is that there really are no limits, no boundries of ultimate growth. It never ends. Isn't that nice? "

kdbk wrote on Aug 25, 2008 6:46 PM:

" napablogger,

If you think this development is something that helps bring about a more "affordable" housing market in a place like Napa, then you have no clue as to what you are talking about. None.

I'm sure you won't like hearing that and that you'll never believe it. But that makes it no less true that it most certainly is. "

kbf wrote on Aug 25, 2008 8:12 PM:

" napablogger- Look at all the houses that have been built in the last couple of years, I wouldn't call any of them affordable, at least not for the average working couple. You don't realize we are in the Napa Valley and houses that are new will never be affordable. "

napan79 wrote on Aug 25, 2008 8:26 PM:

" More houses? The housing market is the worse it has been for a long time and more houses are approved to be built. We need to stop all this building. "

bob2 wrote on Aug 25, 2008 9:08 PM:

" From what I've seen, Napa has become a very desirable place to live and desirable places just don't have affordable housing. Sure, there will be a token amount of govt. subsidized homes but not enough for all who want one, The really affordable places are outside of California and not very desirable. Check-out prices in the Midwest etc. "

MP wrote on Aug 25, 2008 9:13 PM:

" The inventory of housing due to the existing slump can, and probably will, disappear in a short period of time once the recovery comes. It will take at least a year, more likely 2 to build these 10 houses. The developer got approval but that doesn't necessarily mean that building will begin right away. The developer may chose to delay building until the economic ship is righted. Napablogger is right, housing reflects economics 101...the law of supply and demand...even the lowest price house will increase in price when housing is scarce. The slow growth objectives of the community will lead to more expensive housing unless government subsidies are introduced. "

napablogger wrote on Aug 26, 2008 1:19 AM:

" There is almost no land left within the city limits of Napa to build on, and in the unincorporated county it is almost all zoned for ag. Ergo, land prices are high.

Farmworker housing is affordable housing, and besides very little money from that fund was used for the ONE TIME problem due to an employee mistake.

As I said, the only affordable housing we will get will be mandated by the government, and market rate housing is needed to pay for it. On top of that the people who buy it will never get the real benefit that a normal homeowner will get in terms of increases in equity.

Napa has gradually become more and more of a high end place. Get used to it because nothing is going to change that, short of incredibly unlikely circumstances.

My point about needing to build to keep prices down is that we would need to build a whole lot more than we can or want to to really make a difference in prices.

Those ten to fourteen houses aren't going to make much of a difference either way, so why not let the guy build them? "

napablogger wrote on Aug 26, 2008 1:21 AM:

" MP, even if govt subsidies are introduced, someone is still going to have to pay for it. Taxpayers in other words, which is why they collect the affordable housing fees, they have to get money from somewhere. "

steph wrote on Aug 26, 2008 7:58 AM:

" What's "affordable"?

Some people buy less home in a lesser neighborhood than they want, build up equity, and may or may not buy up if they can later afford it. Some people buy a home and rent out rooms. Some people buy a home with a relative and then divide the equity later. Some people go back to college or get a higher-paying job in order to afford the bills. Some people take a second job. Some buy out of town and scrimp and save in order to afford to move back to town. Some leave the area altogether and find a happy life in another part of the state or the US.

Some people make other choices. And some people complain about what they feel they deserve. "

napa wine guy wrote on Aug 26, 2008 8:41 AM:

" Here's the PITCH. I feel ill
From Napa Valley wine auctions page

Imagine... a small group of prestigious homes nestled together across a private bridge individually sited on unique lots over varying elevations sheltered by hillside and the wooded Napa Creek. Perhaps a name comes to mind, “The Hollow.”

In an attractive part of the City of Napa and within the RUL, near schools, transportation and stores approximately 10.4 acres of residential property abut Browns Valley Road. A seasonal stream, Napa Creek, and mature trees add appeal and privacy to the Property. "

napa wine guy wrote on Aug 26, 2008 8:42 AM:

" Oh did I forget it's by sealed bids. "

marine1/1 wrote on Aug 26, 2008 10:11 AM:

" Isn't Napa in a law suite with the state over water concerns that are only going to get worst.By all means city leaders,Approve the project. Does anyone down there know how to say NO!! Our water issues are only going to get worse.(Refered to last weeks article about Napa trying to sue the state for water). Now that the water issue has been made public and the city KNOWS we do not have or hold enough water to take care of what we have in place now, by all means, please continue the growth. This small sub division will not be affordable. In Napa I don't know what that means anymore. I want to know what will hapen if Napa looses the law suite with the state. WHERE ARE WE GOING TO GET WATER!!!! How much is it going to cost the rest of NAPA? There should be a building moritorium in place until our water concerns are dealt with. "

shawana wrote on Aug 26, 2008 10:24 AM:

" Am I to understand 10% of the cost of these homes goes into an affordable housing fund? Or do they build 10 million plus dollar homes and shell for 1 afforable 1 bedroom apartment? Someone please fill me in. "

concerned citizen wrote on Aug 26, 2008 10:43 AM:

" Hey BFK....you left out an option; that is that no additional homes be crammed into Browns Valley or any other location, for that matter, until adequate water is guaranteed. BUT, that is not the only reason not to build and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why!!!

Your attitude seems to be 'build just because we 'must' or because "We do need to add homes to accommodate for population growth."

NO WE DON'T

Can you imagine that, eventually, this will not be possible because we can only build so high and spread so wide?

This is our future. Why not curb it before we get to that point. Must all the margins be pushed to the very utmost limit before sensible decisions are made? Oh, heck, just put those homes in, and the next 100, then the following 75 and, hey, how about those 1000 needed 'over there?'

It WILL have to stop.....why not now, when we can all still enjoy a quality of life?


What a novel concept? Quality over quantity....who would think it?

And don't give me that "someone wants to live here and it's their right..." NO! It's not. Not when their desire to force additional #'s into the population explosion ruins it for everyone else. There are ALWAYS limits to EVERYTHING...it is the law of nature. Fill the glass too full and it spills out.

Only so many people can fit into a Volkswagon!!! "

shawana wrote on Aug 26, 2008 10:58 AM:

" A Volkswagon, now there's affordable housing! Given the wages the fat cats pay here, don't be suprised if thats not the formula our city lackies come up with 10 mansions for the rich, 1 car for the working class to flop in. "

judgeknot wrote on Aug 26, 2008 11:34 AM:

" Building spec mansions in this economy and housing market? Not a sound business move is it? "

cagirl wrote on Aug 26, 2008 11:39 AM:

" Yep, this is just what Browns Valley needs--a year and a half of building and Hidden Hills STILL hasn't completed a house--Carmel Drive is grading the land to begin their project--the traffic is already horrendous and these projects haven't even had buyers or people moving in. But hey, City of Napa is looking at the dollars, as usual. It's great if you don't live in Browns Valley and don't need an ambulance or fire response in under 10-15 minutes--for that matter, we'll see what the water supply should look like after the completion of these projects. If this is considered progress, I don't want any part of it. "

just sayin wrote on Aug 26, 2008 11:43 AM:

" The problem is that developers are building the wrong kind of housing for what Napa needs. We have a supply of huge McMansions.
What people need are smaller homes, condos and townhomes.
More affordable.
More environmentally sustainable.
Smaller yards=less pesticides and herbicides.
More in demand as empty nesters, divorced people and young people don't want 4 bedrooms; they want two bedrooms.
I get so discouraged with all the huge houses that no one can afford, that represent a huge carbon footprint. "

wined0wnnapa wrote on Aug 26, 2008 11:56 AM:

" yes concerned citizen - a one in one out policy will do wonders for home pricing. I have a 2/1 fixer upper going for 3.5 mil because its the only one available right now "

napablogger wrote on Aug 26, 2008 6:23 PM:

" just sayin, sounds like you want Napa Pipe.

The developers that build the larger homes wouldn't build them if they didn't think they could sell them. If they can't sell them, then problem solved for some of the writers on this thread.

If the builders don't build larger market rate homes, then there is no money for affordable housing. "

candlelight wrote on Aug 26, 2008 9:54 PM:

" Are we going to make sure these new homeowners are warned about the mountain lions cruising the creek? A sighting caused Bv Elementary to go into lockdown today.

I agree with napablogger, sounds like just sayin is all for Napa Pipe and projects like it. "

napadad wrote on Aug 27, 2008 8:07 AM:

" as muchas I hate to see more developement at least its not a high density multi story complex housing several hundred families! "

just sayin wrote on Aug 27, 2008 11:00 AM:

" Am I for Napa Pipe? I honestly don't know yet. Rogal is going to have to much more forthcoming and committed about the phasing.
But it seems like the acres dedicated to 14 huge, environmentally unsustainable McMansions could easily and attractively support 30 smaller condos or townhomes.
If I have to choose increased traffic over gluttony, I choose increased traffic.
With increased traffic and the price of gas, the next logical step is more efficient transportation. It's all a slippery slope and I'm happy to slide. "

boomtho707 wrote on Aug 27, 2008 12:51 PM:

" i am going to ghost ride through napa to protest new developments. kahn. "

steph wrote on Aug 27, 2008 10:14 PM:

" I smell envy...

I'm just sayin'. "

convo wrote on Aug 28, 2008 11:33 PM:

" Aren't their organized neighborhood groupds in Browns Valley? Do you think the city informed them that this was coming down the pipe? From the 40 + comments, and apparent lack of opposition, I would guess not. "

kck wrote on Aug 29, 2008 4:38 PM:

" Glad they finally gave the OK. Since it appears tractors and graders have been up there working for a while. But that might be another vineyard I see looking east from Browns Valley school. If I'm wrong...I apologize. If not, glad you got a head start "

quetzal08 wrote on Aug 31, 2008 11:43 AM:

" Here are the income limits used for affordable housing in Napa, it's based on the median income. The numbers that follow the categories, such as 30% of Median, are the incomes for the size of household. 1-person, 2-person, etc. up to 8-person.

2008 Napa, CA
Median Income: 79,600

30% OF MEDIAN: 16,750 19,100 21,500 23,900 25,800 27,700 29,650 31,550
VERY LOW INCOME: 27,850 31,850 35,800 39,800 43,000 46,150 49,350 52,550 LOW-INCOME: 43,050 49,200 55,350 61,500 66,400 71,350 76,250 81,200

I believe affordable housing projects do a proportion of low- and very low-income units not 30% of median. "

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