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Are you supporting Obama or McCain in November?
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CommentNow that both the Democratic and Republican primary races are over, who do you support?
As a democrat, if you supported Hillary Clinton, can you switch and stay on the Democratic side with nominee Barack Obama, or does your vote go to John by supporting McCain?
As a democrat, if you supported Hillary Clinton, can you switch and stay on the Democratic side with nominee Barack Obama, or does your vote go to John by supporting McCain?
As a Republican, is McCain the person you can stand behind, or do you move your vote to the Democratic ticket?
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Skip M. wrote on Jun 3, 2008 9:38 PM:
Impeach Obama!
Is this getting old yet? "
kevin wrote on Jun 3, 2008 10:16 PM:
MarkMathews wrote on Jun 4, 2008 5:22 AM:
Hear Ye wrote on Jun 4, 2008 6:06 AM:
Common Sense wrote on Jun 4, 2008 8:23 AM:
Dwayne wrote on Jun 4, 2008 8:57 AM:
valleylocal wrote on Jun 4, 2008 9:10 AM:
rebob wrote on Jun 4, 2008 9:52 AM:
freeport56 wrote on Jun 4, 2008 10:30 AM:
What is scarier than Obama, an Obama\Clinton ticket. Good-bye Bill of Rights, hello Socialism.
"Drill Here, Drill Now, Lower Prices!" "
Skip M. wrote on Jun 4, 2008 10:38 AM:
Skip M. wrote on Jun 4, 2008 10:42 AM:
Dwayne wrote on Jun 4, 2008 12:10 PM:
plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Jun 4, 2008 1:17 PM:
Common Sense wrote on Jun 4, 2008 1:26 PM:
valleylocal wrote on Jun 4, 2008 1:30 PM:
musikluvr wrote on Jun 4, 2008 1:49 PM:
funnyme wrote on Jun 4, 2008 1:56 PM:
My husband likes the way I look in shorts (you know, showing a little skin).
Mc Cain it is! "
Dwayne wrote on Jun 4, 2008 2:04 PM:
How easily we forget about 9-11.... "
Skip M. wrote on Jun 4, 2008 3:13 PM:
valleylocal wrote on Jun 4, 2008 3:17 PM:
Common Sense wrote on Jun 4, 2008 3:18 PM:
Rezko is a real estate developer and fast-food entrepreneur, had been friendly with Obama for years. He even offered Obama a job after he finished law school!
Rezko donated more than $21,000 to Obama and raised far more for his campaigns in Illinois.
He also advised Obama on the purchase of a new Chicago home and, in his wife's name, purchased a vacant lot next to the new Obama home.
This is not exactly the kind of "change" I want to see in Washington... "
Dwayne wrote on Jun 4, 2008 4:01 PM:
However, if diplomacy should work out, I'll be one of the first to go into the burka and prayer rug business. Ha ha
If Obama wants to have a chat with Ahmadinejad, Ahmadinejad will have that poor little Senator from Illinios for lunch. Ahmadinejad's main belief is that Iran must wipe out israel for Armageddon to begin, and he believes that Iran will rule the world for the next 1000 years.
This is much more than having a chat with the school bully, ya know. "
Paddy wrote on Jun 4, 2008 4:25 PM:
Voting McCain because St. Francis won't be on the ballot. "
valleylocal wrote on Jun 4, 2008 4:34 PM:
Dwayne wrote on Jun 4, 2008 5:30 PM:
Ya know, I am not a bush supporter, but when I think of the lilly-livered alternatives that could be in the White House (Gore, Kerry) I thank my lucky stars that GWB is there, and so should you. I saw no mention of the fact that we haven't been attacked again, or how many attempts have been foiled by the administration. I hope you didn't leave that out intentionally to make your point.
The fact that Hamas and Al Queda wants Obama in the White house is absolutely frightening, and you ought to be paying attention, instead of being a pacifist who will turn their back on someone who wants you dead.
If Obama gets the White House, be prepared to be attacked again. The USA is the evil country that Iran wants wiped out, after Israel. They say it repeatedly, and they mean it, and I don't understand why that escapes you. "
conservative wrote on Jun 4, 2008 5:35 PM:
izzy wrote on Jun 4, 2008 6:19 PM:
izzy wrote on Jun 4, 2008 6:23 PM:
Also 22% of Hillary voters will support McCain over Obie....Hillary is being sought as Mac's VP! "
tqmek wrote on Jun 4, 2008 6:35 PM:
Wake up and smell the Dollars wasted on War based on lie. "
common sense wrote on Jun 4, 2008 7:16 PM:
The most likely reason that oil prices are high is because China and India (and a number of other countries) are using much more than previously. Basic economics 101...with a constant supply, increased demand cause prices to rise. To make oil prices go down, we need to either reduce demand or increase supply...blaming the MINORITY party in Congress is factually obnoxious and naively ridiculous.
The only person presenting a realistic alternative energy program is John McCain, who has an aggressive program to build nuclear power plants... "
funnyme wrote on Jun 4, 2008 7:29 PM:
My dollars are well spent...My freedoms are worth a whole lot more than that, or we wouldn't be having these bashings on line!
Thank you Troops. Thank you so much! "
Paddy wrote on Jun 4, 2008 7:41 PM:
Don't tell anyone, but we're funneling all the terroists into Iraq from all over the world and doing battle with them in one place. It's a secret (and it seems to be working). God bless the brave men and women defending the world from the anarchists and I'm grateful for the tough, tough job that they are doing. "
russ wrote on Jun 4, 2008 9:04 PM:
No contest. McCain.
I wish McCain had Obama's charisma. I wish Obama had McCain's substance. "
kevin wrote on Jun 4, 2008 9:05 PM:
mytwocents wrote on Jun 4, 2008 9:33 PM:
mytwocents wrote on Jun 4, 2008 10:17 PM:
napabrat wrote on Jun 4, 2008 11:10 PM:
Lets try this again, since they didn't post me the first time. We can thank the Republican administrations for an extreme budget deficit. Seems we can hardly remember when we were in the black.
I see nothing wrong with attempting to negotiate things before brandishing armaments and marching off to war. Perhaps someone who is a eloquent speaker would actually be able to make some progress. We are not going to resolve anything overnight because we didn't get into this mess overnight. Do not read into this that I do not support our troups, I do. I just wish they weren't there in the first place.
I do not think Obama is more likely to get the US attacked by terrorists again. It's unfair to draw an analogy between the candidates opinion on the war in Iraq and there stance against terrorism. There's more than one way to skin a cat, so to speak. And as someone already mentioned the responsible parties for 911 are Al Quaeda and they are not resident exclusively in Iraq. What about the "weapons of mass destruction"??? Oh oops they went poof miraculously and vanished before we got there.
Can anyone explain why they found thermite and other materials that burn at temperatures in excess of jet fuel in the twin towers or how they fell so perfectly as if detonated when one contracts to destroy a building? I haven't ever been able to get my head around those questions. "
funnyme wrote on Jun 5, 2008 5:27 AM:
mytwocents? napabrat? rebob? valleylocal? tqmek?
Reasons people "voting" for Obama Hussein say he is charismatic, and black and young and...
care to add to the sentence to make it of essence?
What has he done as Senator that backs the "change" to America that he and his followers say "we all need and want"? "
Common Sense wrote on Jun 5, 2008 7:47 AM:
-If you are looking for fiscal responsibility, McCain has a long and clear track record of this. He frequently went against his own party battling earmarks and frivolous spending. Your solution is to give control of the Presidency to Democrats (who already have control of Congress)? The same Democrats that have managed to bankrupt social security?
Napabrat says: "What about the "weapons of mass destruction"?"
-Well, Bill and Hillary Clinton, Maddy Albright, Al Gore, Nancy Pelosi, (Democrat appointee) CIA head Tenet, Teddy Kennedy, and all of Europe's intelligence agencies said there were WMDs too. The intelligence was wrong. Guess who cut back our intelligence program? Clinton!
Napabrat says: "Can anyone explain why they found thermite and other materials that burn at temperatures in excess of jet fuel in the twin towers or how they fell so perfectly as if detonated when one contracts to destroy a building? I haven't ever been able to get my head around those questions."
-From a science standpoint, this whole issue is a joke...but that won't stop people from believing that 9/11 was a comspiracy by evil Republican Cheney clones. There are flying saucers, too...just ask Dennis Kucinich... "
Sandra wrote on Jun 5, 2008 9:18 AM:
Dwayne wrote, " It doesn't seem to bother some people that Hamas and Al Queda have openly said they want Obama in the White House."
Valleylocal replied, " Dwayne - Maybe that would stop them from want to kill us all."
OMG....I can only shake my head at the naivate of valleylocal's response, and the continued responses. Dwayne, "Hug a Terrorist" ...I like that, it would make a great bumper sticker. "
Native74 wrote on Jun 5, 2008 9:46 AM:
It's refreshing to see a prominent figure not fitting the stereotypical party molds especially in the SOUTH! We need more politicians like Jeb! "
TrickleDown wrote on Jun 5, 2008 9:57 AM:
izzy wrote on Jun 5, 2008 10:38 AM:
McCain is the lesser of 3 evils and I will have to support him. "
funnyme wrote on Jun 5, 2008 10:39 AM:
WOMD...Have you ever played hide and seek? I'm sure you have. And when you have you have also heard "Ready or not...Here I come..."
Iraq was warned from September through March that "IF" they had WOMD we were coming in.
I think they had enough time to play "Hide and Seek", and they had a lot of help to find the "perfect hiding spot".
But since I am a conservative, this just might sound like a "Conspiracy Theory".
Oh well. "
funnyme wrote on Jun 5, 2008 10:42 AM:
You might have to change the radio station or the TV channel. Not just the liberal shows and puppet head news.
Just a thought. "
Ordinary Man wrote on Jun 5, 2008 11:02 AM:
Today's issue is oil. China and India, the two most populated contries on the planet have finally created a middle class that is growing rapidly. They are moving from bikes to cars. China is also developing an infrastructure and a "blue water" navy (something that should scare us all).
If you lean towards the Democrat ideology you should be rejoicing about the next President and not ragging on McCain. You have already won. Let's face it McCain, at best, is a moderate Democrat and Obama is to the far left. There is no centrist Republican in the race. There will definately not be a conservative voice to be heard for the next four years coming from the White House.
So, I say, if you are a liberal...rejoice...you have won. If you are a conservative...as they say in baseball...wait til next year...actually...four years. Me, I'm a conservative and proud of it. I am going to wait quietly...more or less. My day will come again. "
valleylocal wrote on Jun 5, 2008 11:26 AM:
funnyme wrote on Jun 5, 2008 12:00 PM:
Is the word "Diplomacy" in a TERRORIST's dictionary?
No, it's not.
In some instances speechless is good...very good. "
Dwayne wrote on Jun 5, 2008 12:25 PM:
NVGal wrote on Jun 5, 2008 1:11 PM:
June 5, 2011-
I met a nice man in the gas line today that told me about some data entry jobs opening up in the Airport Park. I am excited, I will check them out tomorrow. I miss being a Financial Analyst, but after profit margins were squeezed due to inflation on basic goods, no one could afford to hire one. I think I am lucky though, President Obama has helped to create a lot of these data entry jobs, they pay pretty good, $30.00/hour usually. He stopped them from going overseas, thank goodness. Since I was well positioned for a global market, I just have to readjust a little now that globalization has slowed down.
Gas has stopped going up. No one would have thought it would ever hit $15.00, but it has. The embargo is still going on, don’t know when that will stop, but at least the line wasn’t as long, only 55 minutes today. Everyone is blogging that Pres. Obama served the wrong kind of tea to the Syrian diplomats, ha ha ha and that once he figures out that they like coffee the embargo will be over.
Of course all the Republican’s want him impeached. I don’t know, he did end the endless war. And except for that tinsy winsy terriorst attack a couple of months ago, really things couldn’t be better under him. Change and a better America!
Oh shoot, have to run! I almost forgot my Dr. appt., I’ve been in the que for 9 months, can’t miss that… "
napabrat wrote on Jun 5, 2008 1:48 PM:
commonsense- Glad to see that McCain can balance his check book, but he wants to continue funding the war in Iraq so I can't imagine how he could possibly turn the US budget deficit around.
Lastly, terrorists are people too, just not likable ones. Seems that our definition of terrorist is derived to dehumanize anyone who doesn't agree with US policy. Doesn't history reflect that China and Russia were referred by Reagan (I think) as the "axis of evil" yet we borrowed money from China for our stimulus checks so we can all run out and buy more Chinese goods. Also didn't someone mention "state sponsored terrorism" and seemed to imply Iraq and Iran are not countries in their own right? "
Common Sense wrote on Jun 5, 2008 2:07 PM:
-Except that the Iraq war funding is small compared to the money wasted on our inefficient and Democrat-mismanaged federal social services programs. Social security is going bankrupt, and Democrats have STILL done nothing. At least President Bush tried. If the Democrat party can't even fix a bankrupting social security, why on earth should anybody trust them with their current national health care agenda? "
valleylocal wrote on Jun 5, 2008 2:08 PM:
Local yokel wrote on Jun 5, 2008 2:14 PM:
funnyme wrote on Jun 5, 2008 2:19 PM:
His whole name (First, middle, last, and ever his nickname) has a "ring" to it...Guilty by association? Are you referring to his pastor, his wife or his socialist views?
What people is he listening to? Is it his wife, pastor or Middle East leaders?
Now, if he is listening to you, would you mind telling us what are you saying to him to do?
And as far as that "fresh perspective to the US", what would that be?
You still haven't told me anything...Or have you? "
Dwayne wrote on Jun 5, 2008 2:57 PM:
a teacher wrote on Jun 5, 2008 5:28 PM:
checkursix wrote on Jun 5, 2008 6:10 PM:
1) he will have a dialogue with President Ahmadinejed, the same person who wants to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, and then in speech tells members of the Jewish faith that he supports their right to exist. Cna't have it both ways.
2) turns his back on a 'pastor' who married Obama and his wife after some inflamatory remarks. Even that took over a month to happen. Does anyone really think the pastor just started talking this way? It is a cornerstone of his church. Obama new this when he joined the church and yet he remained a member until it started to cost him politically.
I guess Obama's spouse must REALLY be proud of this country for the SECOND time in her life.......
Wise up...McCain reaches across the aisle. It is Obama who is devisive. "
Sandra wrote on Jun 5, 2008 7:35 PM:
Sandra wrote on Jun 5, 2008 7:38 PM:
a teacher wrote on Jun 5, 2008 8:39 PM:
bloodagar wrote on Jun 5, 2008 9:48 PM:
Bush is not a conservative republican. He does not believe in state's rights, he does like his war powers though!
To compare Dubya and McCain is careless to say the very least...please do some research, you will see the truth.
Democrats for socialized medicine will promote a stagnant health care policy in which we TRUST our GOVERNMENT to manage our health.
This war directly effects my household as my husband is a medic currently deployed, so I want to see an end to this war.
I dig both gentlemen for their individual qualities and I will be watching the debates to come very carefully. Please don't JUST vote the party, vote the person in for their proven policies made.
p.s. Even though Senator Obama attended an Islamic school at one time...that does not make him a Muslim. What has our society come to when being a Muslim is a something that must be addressed...let alone denied, this saddens me so. He has shown that the American Dream is so attainable. "
John Richards wrote on Jun 5, 2008 9:55 PM:
kdbk wrote on Jun 5, 2008 10:20 PM:
Health care, taxes, education etc. are important issues...but none of it matters if we don't first seek to protect our homeland and our interests abroad. That's reality, scoff at it if you really must.
McCain was hardly my first choice, but he's a far better bet for national defense and security that Obama. Oh, no-no-no, that's not my opinion, that's just based on what we've heard Obama say himself.
No President will be perfect. So be smart, pick the guy who'll most likely take care of the most important aspect of leadership, which is the protection of their people. Democrats can keep their helpless, inept, pathetic majority in the House and Senate, just give us a President who will take national defense seriously. It's not a game, even though I know some of you think it is. "
napabrat wrote on Jun 5, 2008 11:08 PM:
commonsense- In the 2006 budget the defense budget was 20% of all expenses and social services was only 21%, so I believe you misspoke when you said defense expenses were small in comparison to social services. Seems to me those percentages are about even.
As for changes, Obama has already stated that the DNC will follow his policy on campaign contributions, which is to say that they will not accept any funds from lobbyists or PAC sources. McCain's staff has already been reduced by several lobbyists leaving his campaign. Seems to me he has had no problems accepting their funding, and his wife has yet to release her taxes, but who knows? "
napabrat wrote on Jun 5, 2008 11:25 PM:
Sandra- You seem to assume that the word terrorist is just one class of people. Don't you think perhaps there are the worker bee terrorists that get out and drive car bombs or fly suicide missions and perhaps another group that is responsible for thinking up their agendas? Do you really walk into a store and file a complaint with the bagger boy or do you ask to speak to a manager? It seems reasonable to assume we would attempt diplomacy with those in positions of power within the terrorist regime, not the little worker bees.
As in our society, I would assume that the levels of verbal and social skills would increase with one's position in that culture. "
napabrat wrote on Jun 5, 2008 11:35 PM:
Seriously, where does this info. come from? "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 6, 2008 2:20 AM:
Seems you just got "BAMMA'D!
(Gives napabrat a "pound!).
Told you she was smart!
Obama ----08! "
Skip M. wrote on Jun 6, 2008 7:22 AM:
The other candidate has never served in the military, is supported by those who wish to see us destroyed, refuses to wear a US flag pin or salute the flag, has voted to cut funding for our forces, and will pull our troops from their positions without regard for their safety or ours.
Personally, I want the candidate that knows what it means to serve in a very real and personal way, and who puts action to his words. This is why my vote is for John McCain.
Impeach Obama! "
Sandra wrote on Jun 6, 2008 7:42 AM:
Common Sense wrote on Jun 6, 2008 7:51 AM:
-During an interview on WABC radio in April 2008, top Hamas political adviser Ahmed Yousef said the terrorist group supports Obama’s foreign policy vision. Specifically, he stated "We don’t mind–actually we like Mr. Obama. We hope he will (win) the election..." "
Sandra wrote on Jun 6, 2008 7:55 AM:
"Hamas isn't the only terrorist organization that endorsed Sen. Barack Obama in the 2008 race for the presidency of the U.S.
Leading jihadists from multiple other terror groups also recently sounded off about the Illinois senator and a slew of other topics in a blockbuster book – Schmoozing With Terrorists – which takes readers into the viper's den of Islamic extremism.
WND's Jerusalem bureau chief Aaron Klein made world headlines last month after a top Hamas official, Ahmed Yousef, told him he "hopes" Obama becomes president and compared the Illinois senator to President John F. Kennedy.
"We like Mr. Obama, and we hope that he will win the elections," said Yousef.
I hope Mr. Obama and the Democrats will change the political discourse. ... I do believe [Obama] is like John Kennedy, a great man with a great principle. And he has a vision to change America to make it in a position to lead the world community, but not with humiliation and arrogance," Yousef said, speaking from Gaza to Klein and WABC Radio's John Batchelor.
Find out what other leading jihadists had to say about Obama in Klein's Schmoozing with Terrorists," in which a Jewish reporter meets his sworn enemies."
Klein, a Jewish reporter, confronts terrorists whose stated goal is the annihilation of the United States and Israel, and narrates his interviews from the unique perspective of a Jew meeting with his enemy.
Among other things, Klein schmoozes with the terrorists about who they want to see in the White House, their thoughts on big name American celebrities, what day-to-day life would be like if the global jihad took over the U.S., and why terrorists kill and maim. "
Dwayne wrote on Jun 6, 2008 8:27 AM:
"On Sunday, April 16, 2008, Aaron Klein and John Batchelor interviewed Ahmed Yousef, chief political adviser to the Prime Minister of Hamas, on WABC radio. The interview produced a scoop which, for some reason, has not been widely publicized: Hamas has endorsed Barack Obama for President. Yousef said, "We like Mr. Obama and we hope he will win the election." Why? "He has a vision to change America." Maybe Yousef has some insight into what Obama means by all these vague references to "change."" "
NVGal wrote on Jun 6, 2008 8:41 AM:
No hug a terrorist for me, I am voting McSame. "
valleylocal wrote on Jun 6, 2008 8:45 AM:
Guess you can't vote for him either. "
NVGal wrote on Jun 6, 2008 8:49 AM:
Napabrat could sell them at less than cost, and the good people of Napa could subsidize the sales. Am I thinking like Obama yet? "
Skip M. wrote on Jun 6, 2008 10:11 AM:
a teacher wrote on Jun 6, 2008 10:22 AM:
I've always respected McCain. I would have voted for the McCain of 2000, even though I disagree with him on many issues. Unfortunatley the McCain of 2008 sounds an awful like Bush 2004. Perhaps he has to pander to the right.
I'll give him his due, though. He seems genuinely to want to talk about the issues that most Americans are concerned about. He doesn't seem to want to engage in smears, innuendo and the ususual republican nonsense. That's to his credit.
More than I can say about his supporters on this blog. "
funnyme wrote on Jun 6, 2008 10:35 AM:
I really hope you are kidding.
But in the event you truly believe what you are saying I have a questin for you:
Why is it that you want to re-invent America?
Most of us LOVE America the way she is and would like to make "some" changes within her original conception, in fact, bring it back to most of its originality.
Those of you who want a "New America", allow our troops to "wipe clean" a fresh country for Obama and all of his followers. That new country right now is called Iraq. It will be hot because it's in the dessert (140 degrees in the summer. You might be able to convince yourselves that global warming is real), but look at the bright side: You will be able to befriend your neighbors. Warning: Some of them "might" be terrorists, but some won't. It's hard to tell them apart right now, but you will in matter of "no time at all" and then hug them and tell them you recognize them as people too...
How would you call that new country of yours?...Come on now, give it a little thought.
Alright, take two aspirins and call me in the morning! "
plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Jun 6, 2008 10:53 AM:
A citizen wrote letters to the Canadian government complaining about the treatment of captive terrorists. The following reply came back:
National Defence Headquarters
MGen George R. Pearkes Bldg, 15 NT
101 Colonel By Drive
Ottawa, ON
K1A 0K2
Canada
Dear Concerned Citizen,
Thank you for your recent letter expressing your profound concern of treatment of the Al Quaeda terrorists captured by Canadian Forces who were subsequently transferred to the Afghanistan Government and are currently being held by Afghan officials in Afghanistan National Correctional System facilities.
Our administration takes these matters seriously and your opinions were heard loud and clear here in Ottawa. You will be pleased to learn, thanks to the concerns of citizens like yourself, we are creating a new department here at the Department of National Defense, to be called "Liberals Accept Responsibility for Killers" program, or L. A. R. K. for short.
In accordance with the guidelines of this new program, we have decided to divert one terrorist and place him in your personal care. Your personal detainee has been selected and is scheduled for transportation under heavily armed guard to your residence in Toronto next Monday. Ali Mohammed Ahmed bin Mahmud (you can just call him Ahmed) is to be cared for pursuant to the standards you personally demanded in your letter of complaint. It will likely be necessary for you to hire some assistant caretakers. We will conduct weekly inspections to ensure that your standards of care for Ahmed are commensurate with those you so strongly recommend in your letter.
(to be continued) "
plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Jun 6, 2008 10:55 AM:
Although Ahmed is a sociopath and extremely violent, we hope that your sensitivity to what you described as his "attitudinal problem" will help him overcome these character flaws. Perhaps you are correct in describing these problems as mere cultural differences. We understand that you plan to offer counseling and home schooling.
Your adopted terrorist is extremely proficient in hand-to-hand combat and can extinguish human life with such simple items as a pencil or nail clippers. We advise that you do not ask him to demonstrate these skills at your next yoga group. He is also expert at making a wide variety of explosive devices from common household products, so you may wish to keep those items locked up, unless (in your opinion) this might offend him.
Ahmed will not wish to interact with you or your daughters (except sexually) since he views females as a subhuman form of property. This is a particularly sensitive subject for him and he has been known to show violent tendencies around women who fail to comply with the new dress code that he will recommend as a more appropriate attire. I'm sure you will come to enjoy the anonymity offered by the burka over time. Just remember that it is all part of "respecting his culture and religious beliefs" as described in your letter.
Thanks again for your concern. We truly appreciate it when folks like you keep us informed of the proper way to do our job and care for our fellow man. You take good care of Ahmed and remember . . . we'll be watching.
Good luck and God bless you.
Cordially,
Gordon O'Connor
Any of you Kumbaya singers want to step up to try this? "
TrickleDown wrote on Jun 6, 2008 1:17 PM:
plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Jun 6, 2008 1:44 PM:
Now, whether or not we are doing the right things is another issue, but the basic tenet of extreme fundamentalism (in many religions) is the same - submit or die. "
plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Jun 6, 2008 1:58 PM:
What will Hillary & Bill do now?
A) Get solidly behind Obama and make sure he gets elected.
B) Give lip service to getting Obama elected, meanwhile undermining/torpedoing/whatever to make sure Obama does not get elected so Hillary won't have to wait eight years. McCain is very likely to be a one-term president but Obama, unless he makes some really big mistakes, will be around for two terms.
C) Fade into obscurity.
D) Insert your thoughts here!
In a way I'm going to miss Hillary and Bill, they provided so much entertainment. Who even knew the television writers were on strike? Who cared? "
Dwayne wrote on Jun 6, 2008 2:19 PM:
TrickleDown wrote on Jun 6, 2008 3:35 PM:
TrickleDown wrote on Jun 6, 2008 3:59 PM:
Oh, for those who don't want to search for the quote from Hamas political adviser Ahmed Yousef which has everyone so up in arms, it is the following: “Actually, we like Mr. Obama. We hope he will [win] the election and I do believe he is like John Kennedy, great man with great principle.” ...taken straight from that lefty news organization, Fox News. Clearly Hamas wants Obama because he hugs terrorists (another doozy...whoohoo). Now that I know where Hamas stands on the election, I clearly know where I stand. Oh wait, Hamas is now upset with Obama about his speach to AIPAC two days ago. What is a person who votes based on the opinions of those who have no say in the election to do? I just wish they would have told me how to vote on prop 98. "
napabrat wrote on Jun 6, 2008 4:02 PM:
It seems that McCain is once again catching up to Obama and agrees that diplomacy, (although contrary to many present on this blog), does in fact have a place in the Presidential bag of tricks when dealing with hostile "terrorist" nations.
Thanks commonsense, Sandra and Dwayne for point out the source of the "terrorist" endorsement for Obama. However, I'm sorry to tell you that Hamas seems to have waffled on their endorsemenet. Please read the quote below from Political Machine at the AIPAC meeting:
"That prompted the following rebuke from a Hamas official:
"The Democratic and Republican parties support totally the Israeli occupation at the expense of the interest and rights of Arabs and Palestinians. Hamas does not differentiate between the two presidential candidates, Obama and McCain, because their policies regarding the Arab-Israel conflict are the same and are hostile to us, therefore we do have no preference and are not wishing for either of them to win." "
plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Jun 6, 2008 4:19 PM:
I will respond with the facts this weekend when I get home and have access to my books (I'm away at this time). The nonbelievers tax is a known provision and has been levied on those who submit to Islamic domination but do not convert.
Do not make the mistake of thinking that I just fly off with statements without facts. Prepare to believe. "
plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Jun 6, 2008 4:24 PM:
a teacher wrote on Jun 6, 2008 4:47 PM:
Dwayne wrote on Jun 6, 2008 4:51 PM:
a teacher wrote on Jun 6, 2008 5:18 PM:
They are good enough for this White House... "
russ wrote on Jun 6, 2008 5:36 PM:
In his victory speech Barack said "when I become president, America will begin to take care of sick people and... the oceans will begin to recede". WOW! What a promise.
But I will vote for McCain, reluctantly. "
russ wrote on Jun 6, 2008 5:48 PM:
Obama "waffled" on his commitment to "sit down and negotiate" with Ahmadinejad and others. You know, man to man, as equals, no preconditions, get it all out on the table. "
John Richards wrote on Jun 6, 2008 7:37 PM:
napabrat wrote on Jun 6, 2008 7:59 PM:
funnyme - Who said we wanted a "New America"? We are pro-change, which does not imply re-inventing the wheel. Change is typically defined as tweaking an existing item here and there to make it run smoother, much as one might "tinker" with an engine to make it purr. We did NOT say radical change which might imply re-creating the whole concept of America. Although, based on his (Obama) throwing out lobbyists contributions from the DNC, which has forced McCain to step up and follow suit, is a radical change which stops influence peddling within the US government. (i.e. Haliburton, etc.)
Do you really think that global warming isn't real? Oh my, the world is still flat and Columbus sailed right off the map/edge when he found America. Oh wait, he didn't really find America, but hopefully you can bend your mind around the concept far enough to get my point. "
misfit wrote on Jun 6, 2008 8:20 PM:
kevin wrote on Jun 6, 2008 8:29 PM:
bettye wrote on Jun 6, 2008 9:29 PM:
misfit wrote on Jun 6, 2008 10:09 PM:
What are you afraid of finding out? And, just what has McCain done that millions of others have not done? Is that the only thing you have to say about McCain.
Have you read about his exploits as a pilot? Do you know what happened on the USS Forrestal? Do you know his voting record? Do you realize that he voted against the new GI bill?
How about his 100% tax free "Disability" pension, the fact that he was a member of the Keating 5, his relationships with lobbyists?
Barack is a decent person, something the high office of president has not seen in a long, long time. Just go in with an open mind for a change and then make your choice. McCain serving in the Navy is not a solely adequate criteria for leadership of this country. "
Sandra wrote on Jun 6, 2008 11:46 PM:
ADark1 wrote on Jun 7, 2008 12:35 AM:
IMHO, Allowing Republican abuses to run rampant is the MOST Un -American thing we can do.
Look at the present mess we're in.
Stocks fell 400 points and the jobless index spiked the highest its been in years!
Even the Presidents' flunkys are tired of covering up his incompetence, lies or distortions.
Its pretty much a given we had NO business in Iraq in the first place.
How many of you "students" of history remember the Shah of Iran?WE put him in power. The SAME for Saadam Hussein. We Educated and TRAINED him right here in the good old U.S.A., then set him loose on his own people. See Charlie Wilson's War. WE "were" on great terms with Afghanistan, helping them break the back of the Russian Army. Well guess what? Dubyah and his henchmen blew that as well.
kevin wrote: " At least McCain DID SOMETHING which is more than Mr. "community organizer" Obama can say... "
Erm WRONG! In ONLY two years Obama has sponsored or co - sponsored over 150 bills to congress. Secondly, as a STATE senator he sponsored or co - sponsored over 800 bills to the Illinois senate. You rabid right - wingers only have yourselves to blame for allowing blindness and mob mentality for the present state of affairs.
Its NOT the "Liberals" who are responsible for Obama's rise to the top! Its you!
America needs, wants and MUST have change, to grow, prosper and no longer be a joke in the eyes of the international community We dont want the "McSame". "
matt@newspeak wrote on Jun 7, 2008 2:20 AM:
Snopes.com debunked this story as of Feb 15, 2005, although in the original version the letter is coming from Donald Rumsfeld to an American citizen.
Oh, and by the way: Kumbaya "
kevin wrote on Jun 7, 2008 9:25 AM:
plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Jun 7, 2008 11:35 AM:
You made sport of me ("I find it truly unbelievable that you stand behind these statements") for making the statement that there is an Islamic tax on non-believers who live in Islamic countries who choose not to convert to Islam.
The tax is called jizya and can be verified in a number of sources, Wikipedia and many many others. Just call up 'jizya' or 'islamic infidel tax' on your favorite search engine.
The imposition of jizya upon non-Muslims is mandated by the Qur'an 9:29: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold forbidden that which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
The tax allows you to keep your head and even practice your religion but you are forever a second-class citizen with limited rights.
You also say that there is no proof Al Qaeda wants worldwide domination. I will deal with that in the next post. "
plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Jun 7, 2008 11:42 AM:
Now please go to your seach engine and ask for 'Al Qaeda world domination'. Several sources will spell out the plan revealed in August 2005:
al-Qaeda views its struggle as a long-term war with seven phases.
Phase one is the "awakening" in the consciousness of Muslims worldwide following the September 11, 2001, suicide attacks. The aim of the attacks was to provoke the US into declaring war on the Islamic world and thereby mobilising the radicals.
Phase two is "Opening Eyes", the period should last until 2006. Hussein says the terrorists hope to make the "Western conspiracy" aware of the "Islamic community" as al-Qaeda continues to mold its secret battalions ready for battle.
Phase three, "Arising and Standing Up", should last from 2007 to 2010, with increasingly frequent attacks against secular Turkey and arch-enemy Israel.
Phase four, between 2010 and 2013, will see the downfall of hated Arab regimes, including Saudi Arabia and Jordan. Oil suppliers will be attacked and the US economy will be targeted using cyber terrorism.
Phase five will be the point at which an Islamic state, or caliphate, can be declared between 2013 and 2016.
Phase six, from 2016 on, will be a period of "total confrontation". As soon as the caliphate has been declared, the "Islamic army" will instigate the "fight between the believers and the non-believers" that has so often been predicted by al-Qaeda's leader, Osama bin Laden.
Phase seven, the final stage, is described as "definitive victory".
Hussein writes that because the rest of the world will be so beaten down by the "One-and-a-half billion Muslims", the caliphate will undoubtedly succeed. This phase should be completed by 2020, although the war should not last longer than two years. "
plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Jun 7, 2008 11:56 AM:
The last post about the seven phases was from Jordanian journalist Fouad Hussein in August 24, 2005 interviewing top lieutenants of al-Qaeda including Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.
There are other statements as well, where bin Laden and/or his lieutenants have said that America must submit to Islam.
Where they (in this case, Hamas) rule they have put this in force:
In an interview with WorldNetDaily, Sheikh Abu Saqer, leader of the group Jihadia Salafiya, said that Gaza's Muslims “expect our Christian neighbors to understand the new Hamas rule means real changes. They must be ready for Islamic rule if they want to live in peace in Gaza. “Missionary activity” will no longer be tolerated, and those suspected of trying to covert local Muslims to Christianity will be “harshly punished,” said Abu Saqer. Additionally, the consumption of alcohol is now prohibited in Gaza, and all women must fully cover themselves in public.
In order to ensure compliance with these regulations, Abu Saqer announced the formation of a new “military wing” that will a close eye on the subjects of “Hamastan.”
Following last week's unprovoked assault on a Catholic church and school in Gaza City, most are unconvinced that even full submission to Gaza's new conservative Muslim overlords will afford any degree of peace and security to the area's tiny Christian population.”
You can easily find all this from several sources, Christian and non-Christian, red and blue, American and non-American, all over the internet.
I don't expect you to believe me but there is overwhelming evidence out there supporting my statements. Do your homework. "
plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Jun 7, 2008 12:11 PM:
Of course that Canadian letter was a fake. Duh.
It was meant to make the point that there are people out there who do NOT want to sing Kumbaya with Jimmy Carter, and if they did it would just be for propaganda purposes. Meanwhile, they will be glad to separate you from your head. Do not confuse them with "nice" people.
Evidence? How about the Islamic TV show with the Mickey Mouse imitator teaching children to want to kill infidels. Do you think they want to sing Kumbaya with you?
I guess it shouldn't surprise me that so many people want to apologize or pretend that extreme fundamentalist Islamics are really just nice people who only do this to get attention for themselves so they can get their own television show in the US. They must believe that when Ahmadinejad was here and spoke to the college group he was just polishing his brilliant comedy skills for when he gets his own sitcom or late night talk show on CBS.
All this has worn me out. I'm taking the rest of the weekend off. Pull my feathers off if you want until Monday, and thank you for listening.
PPF "
matt@newspeak wrote on Jun 7, 2008 12:31 PM:
Is it possible that some of us would like to see that problem addressed in a logical manner instead of concentrating resources on a nation uninvolved in the Wahibbist extremism? Is it possible that we might want to see smart rather than swaggering solutions on the table that don't have the effect of further alienating us from a part of the world we need to build connections to and to embolden moderates in?
Technicolor was invented 60 years ago, no need to keep seeing everything in balck & white. "
plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Jun 7, 2008 12:34 PM:
plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Jun 7, 2008 1:54 PM:
Well, yes jihadists are dangerous but there seem to be a lot of people out there who don't want to believe it.
I'm ready to listen to and support any smart initiatives to resolve problems. But what are they? We know what McCain will do and I haven't heard Obama say anything new except that he would sit down and talk without any preconceived notions. That does not sound like a smart initiative. He would just be letting them use him as a propaganda tool. Like many of Obama's ideas, they are just thought balloons put out there. He's a smart man and maybe he can come up with a smart initiative, but I will not blindly support someone who says he will do it differently without saying how. Packing our tent and going home, then negotiating, is not exactly dealing from strength.
The only thing understood by militant groups (any militant groups) is strength. Strength can be many things. We will need to back up whatever is negotiated with military power if the other parties subvert the agreement.
Much is made about being better liked by the rest of the world. I don't care what the rest of the world thinks, although not getting into foreign entanglements would make me happier. There are many countries that won't like us no matter what we do. They will find reasons to dislike McCain or Obama. There is no doubt that making better policy decisions will help the moderates respect us. Beyond that the extremists are unlikely to change their opinion - unless they get their late night talk show.
I can see it all now - the announcer saying "heeere's Osama!" as the band starts playing. "
Sandra wrote on Jun 7, 2008 4:04 PM:
Sandra wrote on Jun 7, 2008 4:11 PM:
109823 wrote on Jun 7, 2008 4:47 PM:
a teacher wrote on Jun 7, 2008 5:43 PM:
Even if they were successful, all of the countries in this Caliphate are third world economies. How do they plan to beat modern armies? Picture them fighting the Chinese or the Russians. I picture lots of dead jihaddis.
You guys keep comparing them to Nazi Germany, you call them "islamo-Fascists" to drive the point home. Nazi Germany was a first rate industrial power with a first rate modern military. Osama bin Laden can't match that, even if he imagines he can. He may desire world domination, but I imagine that I can find several with the same plan if I chat with some of the inmates at Napa State.
If you guys plan to frighten us, frighten us with something truly threatening. To quote Andrew Shepard (my favorite fictional president):"we have serious problems and we need serious people". "
a teacher wrote on Jun 7, 2008 5:47 PM:
That takes leadership. "
russ wrote on Jun 7, 2008 6:19 PM:
Everything here is wrong. Do some homework and read Wikipedia's bio of the Shah for starters. We did not educate or train either the Shah or Saddam. America did not put them into power. Off and on we supported both when was in our interest. The Middle East has never been a stable part of the world and the British have had more influence over history.
Are Afghanistan and Iran better off now than with the Shah, the Taliban or under the Russians?
You would go back to the Taliban, before GW. Are you supportive of the Mullahs in Iran?
Study further than the movies for your facts(?). "
hawkins707 wrote on Jun 7, 2008 6:59 PM:
Parties aside, on one hand you have McCain, who with a number of skeletons, it seems, will have to explain, then on the other Obama, who openly refuses to show any sign of patriotism as well as a plethora of other issues.
McCain was a POW. McCain was nearly killed during the Forestal tragedy. McCain has lived an amazing American life.
As an Independant, I support McCain.
Obama has managed to prove to us, time and time again, that he has some serious charcter issues. For those that refuse to believe that, check 'ole Jeremiah Wright on youtube, and listen to what Obama's been listening to for the past twenty years.
How are we even considering voting this man into office when he refuses to place his hand over his heart to our own National Anthem!!! I am absolutely Shocked!!! I am shocked that I even have to be on here. This should not be happening. It is sad where our country is right now. Nevermind the fact that his name is Barack Obama. That's right, I said Barack Obama, for those of you who haven't noticed that. Sounds a tad similar to the the names of the extremist muslim terrorists that have been wreaking havoc over the years. US President Barack Obama. That makes about as much sense as Prime Minister Joe Johnson, or George Bush.
Pay attention to the signs, he is not the shining light his speeches make him out to be. Do not be lulled by his empowering words.
This truly saddens me that McCain, with as decorated a past as he has, will have to fight to the end against Obama. "
Dwayne wrote on Jun 7, 2008 7:57 PM:
undermining our troops serving in Iraq and
Afghanistan, McCain's wife has been worrying about her sons who actually are
fighting or planning to fight in the war on
terror. One, in fact, was until a few months ago deployed in Iraq during
some of the worst violence.
You don't hear the McCain's talk about it, but their 19-year-old Marine,
Jimmy, is preparing for his second tour of
duty. Their 21-year-old son, Jack, is poised to graduate from Annapolis and
also could join the Marines as a second
lieutenant. The couple made the decision not to draw attention to their sons
out of respect for other families with sons
and daughters in harm's way.
Cindy also says she doesn't want to risk falling apart on the campaign trail
talking about Jimmy who was so young when
he enlisted she had to sign consent forms for his medical tests before he
could report for duty and potentially
upsetting parents of soldiers who are serving or have been killed. The
McCains want to make sure their boys get no
special treatment. Same goes for their five other children, including a
daughter they adopted from Bangladesh. During a
visit to Mother Teresa's orphanage there, Cindy noticed a dying baby. The
orphanage could not provide the medical care
needed to save her life. So she brought the child home to America for the
surgery she desperately needed. The baby is
now their healthy, 16-year-old daughter, Bridget.
Though all seven McCain children including two Sen. McCain adopted from his
first marriage are supportive of their
father, they prefer their privacy to the glare of the campaign trail. "
TrickleDown wrote on Jun 7, 2008 8:06 PM:
Are you kidding me that you are going to use the wikipedia entry on jizya to show that there is an Islamic tax on non-believers being practiced today? Did you even read the entry??!!? Yes, Jizya has been implemented...the last time was in the 19th century. Sure, we need to worry about this just like we need to worry that an increase in the price of horseshoes is going to dramatically affect the price of transit in the united states. "
misfit wrote on Jun 7, 2008 9:24 PM:
There should be no question of Obama's loyalty to this country just by the fact that he has undertaken this campaign. It is grueling and it subjects one to B.S. such as we hear on FOX and in these types of blogs and from people who have done NOTHING but sit at a keyboard and pass judgment. Let this process unfold.
There is just as much negative if not more in McCain's background that will be revealed. Unfortunately, this newspaper will not allow it to be posted here and I don't even care to anymore. But, smearing arguments against Obama lack credibility when there is a lack of willingness to research McCain as well. So, his entire family has joined up and fought...well by golly...lets elect him president dag nabbit! Research all of the information on the Forrestal incident. Research McCain's voting record when it come to our veterans and see what you think! He's got his 100% disability pension so, forget everyone else. He is dispicable in this regard not to mention his flip flopping on a multidude of issues in order to pander to those he would like to support him. Just do the honest research on both candidates and then you can talk. Specifically, research the "Keating 5", then see what you think of Mr. McCain. "
a teacher wrote on Jun 7, 2008 10:57 PM:
I guess we're not buying into the fear any more. "
TrickleDown wrote on Jun 7, 2008 11:15 PM:
If we are going to believe what is posted on blogs, then clearly the government orchestrated 9/11 because I can show you many, many blogs which believe that. Could I quote any news, though? nope. "
TrickleDown wrote on Jun 7, 2008 11:30 PM:
plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Jun 8, 2008 1:37 AM:
However, thank you for the horseshoe idea. I'm cornering the market for horseshoes as we speak, since we may be back to horses soon with the price of gas going skyward. Call me, I'll give you a good price on a nice used set of horseshoes.
a teacher: Germany was not a first rate industrial power and Italy was in even worse shape. France had the largest and best equipped army at the start of WWII. But through a series of bold military initiatives and a lack of response from the rest of the world, they were able to take over a large part of Europe. Japan was an industrial weakling but took control of a huge area until we were able to turn on our industrial engine and roll them back. Just because a country is smaller and far away does not mean it represents no threat.
I don't think anyone is against talking to Iran, but just talking without any conditions or plan is playing to their propaganda agenda.
Also, there is a poll out that says 60% of Americans don't believe in polls. OK, that last was a joke but it is well known that polls are easily engineered to achieve predetermined results. "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 8, 2008 2:13 AM:
This will be the ONLY time I will give you the research...from now on, do it yourself!
1. IF you truly read the wiki, then you'd know your assertion concerning the shah was false. Simply read his bio CAREFULLY!
2. When referring to the education of Saadam I wasn't talking about "boarding school". Think CIA / George Bush Sr. or is the fact he was a "former" Dir of the CIA false as well? Both were in our pocket! As far as Charlie Wilson and that comment go, well I simply suggest you take a MUCH closer look. BTW?, guess again who dropped the ball. Come on you get two guesses. The answer the Liberals did it is wrong so guess again. I suggested the movie as I thought it'd be easier on the senses. My apologies. Read the BOOK!
Try reading the following: Regime Change: How the CIA put Saddam's Party in Power
From Richard Sanders, 24 October 2002
2.Mission to Tehran:General Robert Huyser (a Former NATO general BTW!)
3.Said Aburish :A Brutal Friendship: The West and the Arab Elite (1997)"Just how gory, and how deep the CIA's involvement in it, is demonstrated in that book..sets out the details not only of how the CIA closely controlled the planning stages but also how it played a central role in the subsequent purge of suspected leftists after the coup.
Even skimming the book(s) you cannot come to any "Logical" conclusion then what I've stated. Feel free to use a search engine on what I posted.
P.S. The wiki on the Shah is the FIRST one on my puter... "
plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Jun 8, 2008 2:15 AM:
I did not "quote from a right wing blog" but that interview from the journalist Mr. Hussein (which I did NOT make fun of his name or try to make it sound scary, so why did you?) was published in several news sources around the world including Australia and Great Britain, and The New York Observer here in the US of A, which is definitely NOT a right wing blog. I think I know better than to call blogs of any stripe 'news sources'.
And surprise surprise, journalists often write books! Now I would agree that there are a lot of books that aren't worth the paper they are printed on, but making fun of the author's name proves nothing about the book.
Now whether the al Qaeda world domination plan is workable or not is something else again, but you said that al Qaeda has not claimed a goal of world Islamic domination, and that I would not respond. I have responded, and if Mr. Hussein's interview with al Zawahiri doesn't satisfy you then we will have to agree to disagree. My point is that we have to be careful with our dealings with these people and apologizing for them or pretending they are not harboring evil plans against us is simply dangerous thinking. "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 8, 2008 2:27 AM:
Do any of you naysayers recall WHAT event caused the storming of the American Embassy in Tehran? it WAS because we wouldn't return the shah to Iran while he was here on a medical visa!
When Ronald Reagan was President guess who was director of the CIA? Bush Sr! Remember Iran /Contra?
Checkout Iraq-gate! use whatever rightwing excuse for news /info you choose!
Now to Charlie Wilson, seeing you're "obviously" a right wing republican, you should know that,"This effort by Wilson ultimately evolves into a major portion of the U.S. foreign policy known as the Reagan Doctrine, under which the U.S. expanded assistance beyond just the mujahideen and began also supporting other anti-communist resistance movements around the world. Many now credit the policy with contributing to the ultimate collapse of the Soviet Union and global communism, bringing about the end of the Cold War." source = wiki
Cant hide the truth so stop trying. "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 8, 2008 2:40 AM:
"Also, there is a poll out that says 60% of Americans don't believe in polls. OK, that last was a joke but it is well known that polls are easily engineered to achieve predetermined results. " On that I give you a "pound"!
Yup!..... PPF a BAMMA pound! :)
What CANNOT be denied or engineered is America is ready for a change in the way Washington does business. The right had the presidency and the congress. Sorry, but after eight years and they couldn't get it right, ITS TIME ....for a change. I wonder if Obama is gonna be the FIRST Democratic president who won because of Republican Mis - management? "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 8, 2008 3:06 AM:
Some I can see will ALWAYS dispute the truth of our policy in Middle Eastern Affairs, or anything else. I guess its the "American Way". However, take the time and look up "Operation Cyclone" and lets see where the ball was dropped in regards to understanding that over 43K Muslims from OUTSIDE the country became involved and the mullas "could" become a threat. How could those in power NOT see that coming and squash it?
Do I support ANY country attempting to overthrow our government or disrupting our "AMERICAN" way of life?
NO! If anyone would think that then you're on something thats most likely a "controlled substance".
What irks me however is some of you believe Americans are so stupid to allow this cycle of distortions, lies and manipulations to continue. If my DOG could come up with a better solution to Government then the previous Administration, I'd likely vote her for President! Actually?, looking at the way things have been, run,She probably could do a BETTER job!
Seeing dogs don't have voter registration cards, I suggest again, Change is what is needed on BOTH sides.
Barack Obama IMHO represents that change. Again, its because of what has happened in the past on BOTH sides, he is the ONLY one that seemingly has a clue!
......Opens a bottle of wine ....takes a sip "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 8, 2008 3:18 AM:
"How are we even considering voting this man into office when he refuses to place his hand over his heart to our own National Anthem!!!" Guess what? You DON'T place your hand over your heart during the anthem! ONLY during the pledge of allegiance! Secondly seeing you seem to be a real "Flag waving type", Do us ALL a favor and read the directions for the "PROPER" care of the United States flag! You'll probably be suprised at what you'll find out.
Third, for those watching youtube videos? Watch the ENTIRE thing....OH! BTW? You'll also see that Several presidents ALSO do NOT place their hands over their hearts during the national Anthem or even wear lapel flag pins..
P.S. The MAJORITY of those flagpins are made in CHINA! "
a teacher wrote on Jun 8, 2008 9:07 AM:
And size does matter. Both countries feared war with the USA and the Soviet Union because of the size of their economies. Germany avoided war with the USA until it had no choice and Japan sought a quick knockout blow followed by a negotiated peace. Name the country in the "Caliphate" that could do that. Even with a nuclear capability none of those countries could come close to matching the USA's military or industrial might. They would be plowed under and they know it.
Yes, bin Lasen is a threat in that he can cause lots of pain. Let's put his head on a pike. But the rest of this nonsense is just that, nonsense.
Also, I notice that when the right doesn't like the results of the polls, they just claim they are invalid. "
a teacher wrote on Jun 8, 2008 9:16 AM:
If you were to take the message portrayed in the "Left Behind" series of novels seriously you'd have to wonder about Christianity's goals. How do you think the non-Christian world sees that? "
NVGal wrote on Jun 8, 2008 9:31 AM:
GOALS: Establish a pan-Islamic Caliphate throughout the world by working with allied Islamic extremist groups to overthrow regimes it deems "non-Islamic," and expelling Westerners and non-Muslims from Muslim countries.
This is from the Economist, June 7th – 13th 2008:
Article titled “A radical new strategy, kill fewer muslims” -…”Besides, the organization (Al-Qaeda) has a simple remedy. It just needs to kill more Westerners and fewer Muslims”
The price of gas went up the other day because someone in Israel said that war with Iran was “unavoidable”. So we need a President that can negotiate as well as back us up with fire power. It’s unrealistic to promise to get all troops out within 16 months without being in the position of President and then making an honest decision about what the best course of action is. This statement alone makes him look like he doesn’t know what he is doing, so how can I trust that he can do anything else? His campaign promises make him look like he has some magic wand to make all the hurt and hardship go away. I think he is setting people up for a huge disappointment. Hopefully I am wrong and my life will get easier along with everyone else if he ends up getting elected. "
dellasumbrella wrote on Jun 8, 2008 9:33 AM:
I'm voting my values: wisdom, clarity, compassion, responsibility, tolerance, knowledge, reason, and honesty. I'm voting for the objective of creating a healthy and well-educated nation, cooperating with other nations to sustain our global environment, a return to foreign policy by example and cooperation rather than by brute force, and a manageable economy. All that boils down to Barak Obama for me. And if I weren't already clear about that, the hopeful, solidly-reasoned posts from Obama supporters here vs. the cynical, absolutist positions of many of McCain's, would have convinced me. I suppose it's naive of me to think people might benefit more from reading something he's written than just tossing insults and rumor about. "
plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Jun 8, 2008 10:51 AM:
Running for any office does not necessarily prove loyalty to this country. I think most candidates do love their country but there are many reasons to run for office, especially president. How about fame, power, a chance to make history, etc.? I would question the loyalty of the candidate for president from the Communist Party. By definition that person, if elected (Slim or No Chance, and Slim just left town) must desire to fundamentally change our government and way of life. I don't see loyalty written in any of that.
Wearing a flag lapel pin also does not prove loyalty. But Mr. Obama publicly declared that he stopped wearing one. Why? He made it an issue so it certainly is fair to discuss it. By itself, no big deal, but it's just one of those little things, combined with other remarks, that makes one ask more questions about his background and ability to make the best decisions for the country.
As I have said before, I think Obama is personally very likeable but his far left views and voting record prevent me from voting for him. I do not see that as the right direction for the country. Just being charismatic, promising change, interesting to listen to, etc. is great but these are not good reasons to vote for him. I would vote for a libertarian with less than stellar speaking abilities (but the right principles) before I would vote for a charismatic socialist. "
matt@newspeak wrote on Jun 8, 2008 10:58 AM:
It's all just political posturing, the dust-up over Sen. Obama's statement that he would be willing to talk to our enemies. American presidents have been doing that since the Barbary Pirates.
For as much as is made of JFK's not blinking on Cuba, it was the back-channel deal to pull our missiles out of Turkey and not invade Cuba that ended the standoff.
Historians often say, the one indispensible figure in the break-up of the USSR was Mikhail Gorbachev. More than the huge deficits we racked up on un-needed, non-operational weapons in the 1980's, it was supporting, encouraging and talking with the reformer Gorbachev that helped end the Cold War.
I know it serves those running against Obama to make it sound like he's going to have Ahdmenijad and Chavez over to spend the night in the Lincoln Bedroom, but I think most know he's just talking about the American, civilized tradition of using diplomacy- something that current administration has eschewed- which only reinforces the notion that swagger, obstinancy and dismissal of diplomacy is a sign of incompetence, not strength.
For that matter, its not as if we have a great deal of choice in the matter. Top brass and Pentagon analysyts have projected that the war in Iraq has dramatically sped up the life cycle of much of our military equipment, exhausted our all-volunteer force, and focused our training almost exclusively on counter-insurgency operations, degrading our armed forces' ability to respond to other types of combat.
This and the massive debt to fund the war that we'll be paying off for generations- we better get used to talking- we can't afford McCain's "100 Year" plan. "
plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Jun 8, 2008 11:24 AM:
Germany did have a first class war machine but was definitely not a first class industrial power and was in a depression worse than ours - one of the reasons Hitler (like FDR) gained power. They built their war machine in defiance of treaties and managed if with stereotypical German efficiency. Italy and Japan had practically no industrial base. Japan had to put out a superhuman effort to do what they accomplished, but they could never replace anywhere near the number of ships and planes that we shot down and sank. They could still train pilots and sailors but had nothing to put them in.
Yes, France was ready to fight WWI again, and they had the Maginot Line to prove it. The Germans just drove around it with their tanks, which at the start were not the fearsome tanks that came out later. The French had better tanks but their generals didn't know how to use them to best effect.
Germany was afraid of the Soviet Union but not because of their industrial base, which the Germans captured much of at first. They were afraid of the huge never-ending masses of soldiers that they knew Stalin could march at them. And that's what happened, with some help from our industrial might.
The next war will probably not be fought with tanks and ships, although they will play a role. Terrorism, physical and cyberterrorism, sabotage and subterfuge, electronic measures and countermeasures, all of which can be run remotely from small nations or groups with big funding, such as from sales of oil. I hope someone is paying attention or we will be like the French hiding behind the Maginot Line. "
Sandra wrote on Jun 8, 2008 11:44 AM:
russ wrote on Jun 8, 2008 11:52 AM:
As I am sure you read, GHWB was Dir CIA for 365 days, 1976-1977, and helped revive the CIA after the Church hearings. I am not sure what you are alleging in this one. Read Wiki.
For you to say that Iran and Iraq were "in our pocket" is the height of preposterousness.
I enjoyed Charlie Wilson's War, and believe the story true. Just should not be the only reference to an alleged fact.
BTW, ADark1, George H W Bush was vice-president under Reagan, not director of CIA. The fall of the Shah and the taking of the US Embassy in 1979 was far more complicated than you state and it involved the European countries and much naivete' on the part of Jimmy Carter.
Actually most folks do remove their hats and place it and their right hand over their hearts. I do it every time at a ball game. "
Sandra wrote on Jun 8, 2008 12:00 PM:
Sandra wrote on Jun 8, 2008 12:13 PM:
steph wrote on Jun 8, 2008 1:12 PM:
I'm for a candidate who will not break our economy with tax burdens that time and time again prove to stifle innovation and prosperity for all. Prosperity is earned, not endowed. But in a good capitalist economy, plenty of opportunity exists to support everyone, and even our most poor are better off than the majority of the rest of the world's citizens. This is why our country is so admired in the rest of the world. Many folks would die to get their chance at American opportunity. A strong economy is essential for national security.
I don't believe Americans are better off the more dependent they are on the government for services. I do not support surrendering my families guns from their locked safes. Genocide occurs when people are not able to protect themselves. Modern history is replete with shocking examples.
I am for the candidate who promises--and delivers on the promise--to bring nuclear power to the US and significantly reduce our dependence upon foreign energy sources. This is our number one liability as a nation, even as India and China build more and more nuclear power plants, and grab up more and more of the world's resources, as our so-called leaders sit arrogantly idle.
I do not believe Obama is different or represents change. I believe his voting record and strategic associations with Chicago money-makers proves that he is the consummate politician. I do believe the rest of the world may perceive that he is different, as he is young and handsome and a brilliant speaker who speaks of cooperation, and this represents a plus for me. "
steph wrote on Jun 8, 2008 1:24 PM:
I'm for a candidate who will tell us the truth about our national debt, unfunded debts like Social Security. Clinton supporters claim that Clinton left with a balanced budget; he did not, unless creative accounting is allowed. Bush and the Republicans have dug us into a deeper hole.
I'm looking forward to the debates, but I don't trust most of what any politician says.
It IS time for change, but I don't sincerely believe either candidate represents real change. I think the youth of America are impressively rational-thinking and may bring change to our country eventually, but right now we have the government we all deserve. "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 8, 2008 2:18 PM:
Previously, ...
I posted, "What irks me however is some of you believe Americans are so stupid to allow this cycle of distortions, lies and manipulations to continue. If my DOG could come up with a better solution to Government then the previous Administration, I'd likely vote her for President! Actually?, looking at the way things have been, run,She probably could do a BETTER job!"
...Hmmm lets explore that..
Seeing she is a FEMALE chinese pug, She could obviously get the female vote, the minority vote, ( being a pug, chinese ancestry, female and BLACK!) Hmm wonder what the rabid right - wingers would say to that? Thank God she's had her shots!
Granted, the right perhaps may take affront with her name being "China"! probably NOT American enough huh? Then again, I could simply put a harness on her with the American flag on it so she won't have to sweat things like having a flagpin, or saluting during the national anthem!
Ever see a dog salute?
OK so she's my second choice!
Third choice would be a new Youtube favorite, Jesse ( The Body ) Ventura! Also he's a former governor of Minnesota! He does have some interesting things to say about 911 and the way things have been run! Are some of you out there getting the point?
Obama 08 cause America cannot wait! "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 8, 2008 2:41 PM:
If I've made mistakess in anything I presented then I will gladly stand corrected:
ie: Russ is correct about Bush Sr. ( as far as being a V.P. under R.R. Thanks Russ for pointing that out! I'm NOT perfect, nor do I walk on water...( China thinks I sink maybe an inch!) However I do believe we can all agree to disagree. That after all is what and why this forum was setup! Other then that? Ladies and Gentlemen! lets get reaaaady to Rumbleeeeeeee!
:)
Obama 08 as America can no longer wait! "
mytwocents wrote on Jun 8, 2008 5:49 PM:
glenroy wrote on Jun 8, 2008 5:54 PM:
Bush’s War?…are you guys still that oblivious of the consequences of your parties core policy failures?
Take a look:
Carter gutted the CIA… bulk being middle east assets.
Carter killed nuclear power.
Carter abandoned the Shah…remarkably Obama’s Middle East advisor is the same idiot.
Clinton cuts drastically reduced our intelligence and military capabilities, added walls between domestic and foreign intelligence…handed the WTC to al Qaeda on a platter.
Clinton treated WTC #1 attack as a crime ignoring links between al Qaeda and Saddam.
Clinton never met personally with the Director of the CIA completely ignoring the half dozen acts of war against our nation…oh he blew up a few abandoned mud huts.
Clinton did nothing as the Taliban slaughtered their way to power, did less to stop the dozens of terrorist training camps that resulted.
Clinton ignored countless warnings of a growing radical threat from the FBI, CIA, DoD, NSA and his own staff.
Clinton ignored the Sudan’s offer to exchange bin Laden for removal of trade restrictions…a Democrat wrote the book and handled negotiations.
Clinton vetoed a bipartisan ANWAR drilling bill….remember oil was too cheap to worry about.
Since the Carter era Democrats have blocked every bipartisan and partisan bill allowing drilling into the 50 billion barrels of known domestic reserves.
If you like $5.00 gas...vote Democrat.
If you’re so concerned about the fiscal problems confronting this nation why not focus on the 65% being spent annually on horribly inefficient social welfare programs…as opposed to the 7% being spent on national defense…why not support efforts to bring a little accountability to all levels of government?
If you don’t want another Vietnam don’t vote Obama…another war won is just another Democrat opportunity to surrender. "
a teacher wrote on Jun 8, 2008 8:18 PM:
Since 2000, the Republicans have controlled all three branches of the government. But it's all Clinton's fault. It's all the liberals fault. Uh huh.
As they say, Denial is not a river in Eygypt... "
russ wrote on Jun 8, 2008 8:32 PM:
"Historians often say" Gorbachev was responsible for the US victory in the Cold War. Liberal Baloney! Meaningless. Americans know the truth.
The Cuban missile crisis ended because the USSR pulled their missiles out of Cuba. Duh!
The Bush administration has attempted to back channel talk with Iran. Ref: Ryan Crocker's latest testimony to Congress, April 8, 2008. Crocker stated that Iran declined the opportunity to talk. "
finewine wrote on Jun 8, 2008 8:56 PM:
Vote McCain! "
plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Jun 8, 2008 9:42 PM:
Dan Gurney for President!
(He probably doesn't want the job)
Pat Paulsen for President!
(umm, I think he may have passed away)
Ringo for President!
(I guess we can't have an English Beatle as president, and the new Napa PD police dog - also Ringo - I think was reported to have been born in Belgium - guess that's out too)
adark1's China for President!
(Does she meet the minimum age and citizenship requirements?)
I have no problem electing a dog as president. Couldn't be any worse than the others. The cartoonist Farley did a series of cartoon strips about a dog being elected mayor - it was hilarious!
After all this heavy debate I needed to write something lighter and brighter! "
plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Jun 8, 2008 9:56 PM:
Jefferson was totally against foreign engagements (he was very libertarian before anyone knew what that was) but somehow got talked into that one by shipowners and sailors. I guess that was the start of the US government providing military support to US business.
I'm a big fan of ol' T.J. but he wasn't perfect. "
plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Jun 8, 2008 10:15 PM:
and
steph - your posts of June 8 @ 1:12 and 1:24 PM -
Well said! There is nothing the prolific pink flamingo can add. Love ya both! (just don't tell your husbands! - I'm rather fragile, y'know) "
TrickleDown wrote on Jun 8, 2008 10:51 PM:
Americans, but that (and the CIA backs this) it is not about religion. Nice try, though, to put words in my mouth. My point with Wikipedia is that even they have it together enough to know what is up. Your sources are pretty wack if they show that Darfur is a religious genocide. Where you got from my post that I think that Darfur has anything to do with Americans, I have no idea. Read my post again SLOWLY! If you come to the conclusion I say that Darfur has anything to do with Americans, please read it again. "
cab e-girl wrote on Jun 9, 2008 12:23 AM:
1. What will you do about the energy issues we are facing? Will you support nuclear energy facilities like our friends in Europe and all over the rest of the world? Will you support drilling and exploring for oil in the US? Will you support effective alternative fuels (ethanol is not effective). Will you support the use of passive sources energy?
2. Will you stop the massive influx of illegal immigration and protect our borders from illegal immigrants and drugs? Will you protect our borders that wish to do harm to our country and our citizens? We need a system that allows people to come to our country to work, but we need to know who and where they are.
3. Will you put into place an employer/employee tax that covers migrant workers and those that live with them in case they need medical care and or treatment?
4. We know that Mr. Obama would negotiate with the terrorist in Iran, but what would Mr. McCain do?
5. What would the candidates do to stabilize the middle-east?
6. What are you going to do about the outrageous spending problems in congress?
By what I have heard Obama say, he is nothing more than a soft spoken Marxist. The change that he wants is nothing new, socialism and communism, he is a scary guy, with an pit-bull with an attitude for a wife. He has no economic policy, no energy policy. His policy for Iraq and the war on terror is to quit and lose. This is not hope.
McCain doesn't offer much more hope, but at least he is not a socialist or a pacifist. "
matt@newspeak wrote on Jun 9, 2008 1:12 AM:
If your point is that he wasn't president at that specific time- OK, I'll concede that.
The wider point is that many stories of gunboat diplomacy usually have mundane yet more significant undertones of negotiation- and there's nothing dishonorable in that.
Pulling our Jupiter missiles out of Turkey was the deal made with Moscow that gave everyone an out to end the standoff. I'm not being critical- JFK made the right call.
Similarly, I have yet to hear a credible, impartial, historical analysis of the Soviet break up that conforms to the popular notion that somehow one administration was responsible for winning the Cold War. This idea first discredits the actions of other presidential administrations from Truman to Bush 41 and fails to take into account Brezhnev's disastorous economic policies of the 1970's, the draining war in Afghanistan and, most pertinent, Gorbachev's peristroika and glasnost reforms. These reforms took hold faster than anyone thought, or even Gorbachev expected, but once he tugged the one thread, the whole thing unraveled. "
XMAN wrote on Jun 9, 2008 1:23 AM:
ADark1 wrote on Jun 9, 2008 1:56 AM:
(Does she meet the minimum age and citizenship requirements?)"
Well PPF old buddy, she was BORN here in Napa so the citizenship deal isn't an issue. Also, If a human year is equal to seven dog years we've got that covered as well. However, based on election mathematics we could get stuck there! To make things worse, I asked her if she wanted to run for President! She looked at me in her "Pugly" way, ( You know....they cocked their heads, to look at the person that feeds em..and you can just hear them saying..Whatcha' Talking about Willis?")and she SNARFED! Now snarfing alone isn't really a big deal but suppose she had her paw on the button and she was trying to get to her biscuits, sneezed, snarfed and its ALL Over?
Houston I think we have a problem!...its a shame too cause my Chesapeake was willing to be her Vice - President!...Oh well back to the drawing board!
BTW,...GLENROY almost had me completely fooled until I looked at some of his sources...sorry buddy...but if the "journalist"( For lack of a better term) comes from or works for "FAUX NEWS", then I'll pass..Guess that leaves us only one choice!
Obama in 08 as the USA can't wait! "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 9, 2008 2:17 AM:
Using a doggie age calculator, I am Proud to let you know that China is 27 years old in human years! She is legally able to run...Now to get her a voter's registration card!
IF her opponent is John McCain, then he'd be 297 years old in Dog years..IMHO that makes him waaay to old! I mean what new tricks can you teach a 297 year old dog? Then again, the Reprobates, erm...Republicans could possibly file an age discrimination suit against election officials! hmmm... that sounds like something out of the Liberal playbook!
Still trying to work on the paw on the button going for a biscuit deal as well..!
Let's just keep HOPE ALIVE!
Obama 08 America can't Wait!
( Or China !) "
misfit wrote on Jun 9, 2008 6:04 AM:
It is proven that he does not have the temperament for this job. Other senators have voiced concern over his ability to maintain his cool. He was a hot dog pilot and he will be a hot dog president. We're already trying to get rid of a cowboy we don't need a hothead. "
misfit wrote on Jun 9, 2008 6:07 AM:
Common Sense wrote on Jun 9, 2008 7:49 AM:
Did anyone look beyond the mainstream media reports and dive in to (Democrat) Senator Rockefeller's recent report, in search of where exactly President Bush lied about what his intelligence agencies were telling him about the threat posed by Saddam Hussein?
On Iraq's nuclear weapons program? The president's statements "were generally substantiated by intelligence community estimates."
On biological weapons, production capability and those infamous mobile laboratories? The president's statements "were substantiated by intelligence information."
On chemical weapons, then? "Substantiated by intelligence information."
On weapons of mass destruction overall (a separate section of the intelligence committee report)? "Generally substantiated by intelligence information." Delivery vehicles such as ballistic missiles? "Generally substantiated by available intelligence." Unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to deliver WMDs? "Generally substantiated by intelligence information."
It seem clear to me which party is lying, and I'll vote accordingly. "
Common Sense wrote on Jun 9, 2008 8:09 AM:
It's not mere coincidence that our success against al Qaeda globally comes along with success in Iraq. For all its setbacks and frustrations, the Iraq war drew jihadists into a battle they thought they could win, because it would be fought on their home turf - but which they're now losing disastrously.
Additionally, the US decision to "stay the course" in the Iraq war, which was also widely mocked and criticized, served to thoroughly demoralize the jihadist movement.
From its start in spring 2003, the Iraqi insurgency has been entirely built on the premise that it could use suicide and roadside bombings, sectarian slaughter and the torture and murder of hostages to force America out of the Middle East.
If Democrats had won the White House in 2004, the jihadists might have succeeded.
Instead, America doggedly refused to give in to terror, despite 4,000 combat deaths and massive antiwar sentiment, and unwaveringly supported an Iraqi government that was at times feeble and confused - and proceeded to break the jihadist movement's back.
Al Qaeda is no longer able to use the Iraq war as a way to draw in new recruits. The reason is clear: If you go to Iraq to fight the American infidel you will die, and die for nothing.
Iran remains the most lethal state sponsor of terrorism, fomenting proxy wars in Lebanon and Gaza, and in Iraq itself. Its nuclear-weapons program proceeds despite minor sanctions and endless international efforts at engagement.
Sorry, I just can't trust Democrats with this yet. They can't even run Congress. "
illbeme wrote on Jun 9, 2008 8:30 AM:
cab e-girl wrote on Jun 9, 2008 9:07 AM:
Sandra wrote on Jun 9, 2008 9:12 AM:
Sandra wrote on Jun 9, 2008 9:14 AM:
Fighting between two main opposition groups -- the Sudanese Liberation Movement/Army (SLM/A) and the Justice and Equality Movement (JEM) faction of the Sudan Liberation Movement/Army (SLM/A) -- against the Government of Sudan (GOS) military, and GOS-supported militia groups collectively known as Janjaweed intensified in the three states of Darfur, the western region of Sudan, during late 2003. Insecurity has steadily increased since the Darfur-based opposition SLM/A attacked GOS military forces at El Fasher, North Darfur, on April 24 and 25, 2003. The humanitarian emergency in Darfur is a direct result of violence toward the Fur, Zaghawa, and Massalit civilian groups by GOS forces and the Janjaweed. Conflict-affected populations describe recurrent and systematic attacks against towns and villages, burning of buildings and crops, arbitrary killings, gang rape, and looting. The GOS has used aerial bombardments to terrorize civilians who the GOS claims are harboring SLM/A or JEM forces.
The main cause of this conflict is the Darfurians widespread feeling of being consistently socio-economically marginalized and the sense of being left out of the peace negotiations particularly in the context of self-determination and power sharing. "
Sandra wrote on Jun 9, 2008 9:21 AM:
By early 2003 exiled Sudanese rights activists claimed that the conflict in Western Sudan's Darfur region was developing from ethnic cleansing into genocide. The Khartoum government allegedly supports Arab militias in their massacre of Fur and other indigenous people termed "slaves". Khartoum however claims its neutrality and says it is fighting "banditry" in Darfur. .....
Now, all of this info is available from Globalsecurity.org...it also has newer info. But this gives you some accurate background into the involvement of Terrorists in this conflict. This sight is not the only source of this info, but it has a pretty good background information for you to start to understand what is patently obvious to me. I do not have to read anything SLOWLY from you. I suggest you just start reading period. "
Sandra wrote on Jun 9, 2008 9:46 AM:
Dwayne wrote on Jun 9, 2008 11:29 AM:
From Dreams of My Father: 'I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.'
From Dreams of My Father: 'I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mothers
race.'
From Dreams of My Father: 'There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white.'
From Dreams of My Father: 'It remained necessary to prove which side you were on , to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.'
From Dreams of My
Father: 'I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image,
the black man, son of Africa , that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in
myself, the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and
Mandela.'
From Audacity of
Hope: 'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.' "
a teacher wrote on Jun 9, 2008 11:54 AM:
The reason they keep bringing up Clinton is, well, they got nothing else. "
Common Sense wrote on Jun 9, 2008 12:39 PM:
Common Sense wrote on Jun 9, 2008 12:44 PM:
-The minority was entirely cut out of the process and that the report was written solely by Democrat staffers – For example, Republican amendments, including those of the Vice Chairman, were not even given a vote.
-The Democrat staff who authored the report twisted policy makers’ statements and cherry picked intelligence in order to reach their misleading conclusions, often leaving out pertinent intelligence.
-The report does not review any statements of Democrats, only Republican administration officials.
-The Democrat staff did not seek to interview those whom they accuse.
-The Rome report violates the Democrats’ own criteria for the Phase II report and should have been excluded.
This type of partisan gamesmanship is beneath the Senate Intelligence Committee and takes away from the important national security issues the Committee should be focused on. Congress has failed to pass a terrorist surveillance bill, or intelligence authorization act, both of which are critical to improving the intelligence community. These failures are a result of injecting partisan politics into the Committee’s oversight responsibilities. "
Hear Ye wrote on Jun 9, 2008 1:48 PM:
It's safe to say you haven't read Dreams of my Father. When read in context, I personally find his honesty about struggling with identity growing up to commendable. "
a teacher wrote on Jun 9, 2008 1:54 PM:
a teacher wrote on Jun 9, 2008 1:56 PM:
Common Sense wrote on Jun 9, 2008 2:30 PM:
TrickleDown wrote on Jun 9, 2008 2:52 PM:
glenroy wrote on Jun 9, 2008 3:15 PM:
Keeping voting Democrat and keep watching the destruction of our economy….and they still keep blocking the only probable solution for energy independence…because the are beholden to fringe environmentalists whose contribution to society be it security or paying taxes can best be summed up as NIL….
Sounds bites they claim…well so be it, sound bites is all Obama has to offer that won’t ruin what is left of the economy…
GO CS! "
Common Sense wrote on Jun 9, 2008 3:23 PM:
No, a rational discussion would involve discussing and debating the "facts". Unfortunately, those of you on the liberal left play victim every time reality gets in the way. This is evidenced by the fact that you, TrickleDown, choose to play semantics rather than debate the evidence.
I will NOT call it the "Democratic" party...to associate democracy with the recent primary process is ludicrous. Just ask Hillary. "
glenroy wrote on Jun 9, 2008 3:29 PM:
The best that can be said of the current crap of Democrat leaders is that what they lack in integrity they more than make up with their incompetence… "
Sandra wrote on Jun 9, 2008 4:33 PM:
russ wrote on Jun 9, 2008 5:30 PM:
Glasnost, perestroika? The roof fell in on the USSR and Eastern Europe and Gorbachev had no choice. How long did it take for the Europeans to kick out the commies? Less than a year and it was not because of Gorbachev's goodwill.
No one said one administration was responsible for the end of the Cold War, but it darn sure did not happen because of Jimmy Carter. It happened DESPITE Jimmy Carter.
Would you admit that Reagan had a primary role in the wall being torn down? "
a teacher wrote on Jun 9, 2008 5:33 PM:
Sounds more like the right to me. When none of the WMD's Saddam supposedly had were found, we were victims of "faulty" intelligence. Pobrecito!
It's Clinton's fault. It's Carter's fault. It's the "democrat" congresses fault. Poor, poor pitiful you.
Face it! The "conservatives" have had their way for nearly 12 years and we are in a mess. If people choose McCain over Obama it won't be because many think that "conservative" is better, it will be in spite of it. "
a teacher wrote on Jun 9, 2008 5:47 PM:
Except, who has been in charge for 12 years. Oh, that would be Republicans. What did this administration do to lower gas prices? It started an endless war in the land area where most of the world gets it's oil. And SURPRISE! gas prices are now 400% what they were when Clinton was in office. "
a teacher wrote on Jun 9, 2008 5:54 PM:
OMG! They're trotting out the RED SCARE! "Islamo-fascism" isn't working so I guess we're going for the classics.
Next stop Fluoride in the water! The horror! "
common sense wrote on Jun 9, 2008 6:01 PM:
common sense wrote on Jun 9, 2008 6:07 PM:
At least President Bush changed the laws on nuclear power plants a few years ago...we're finally getting some new nuclear power plants coming online.
And to top it off, the only thing Obama can come up with is "let's raise taxes on oil companies"...ya, THAT won't show up as more gas price increases. But hey, at least it would make the elitist liberals feel good. "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 9, 2008 7:11 PM:
" "teacher," please provide evidence for your statements. If I were you, I'd start by actually reading the intelligence report.."blah blah blah!
Is this the SAME 'Intelligence Report"
( for lack of a better word...actually an oxymoron) That caused the ONLY honorable man in the Bush Administration to fall on his sword? The SAME man whom Bush didn't realize he'd FIRED?
Of whom am I referring?
The SAME man who was forced to LIE!, NOT only to The Senate ,The House , America and the rest of the world as well?
I'm referring to Colin Powell.
The ONLY man in the Bush Administration who proved what I'd always suspected...Bushites use people up then throw them under the bus.
NO ONE in here can claim this Administration has a shred of honor or integrity. EVERYTHING they do and have done proves just how much they have the American Interest at heart! You're probably getting ready to bash me again.. BTW, really cheap shot at taking Obama quotes out of context...(Not that I'm suprised)
IF John McCain could get Mr. Powell to run as VP? he may have a shot. However that means, Mr. Powell would have to tell the world the truth about Bush and Co. That will also be MORE damaging then a plus!
Look up the facts of why Powell quit/ WAS FIRED look up what REALLY happened.
Then again, with all the powers that king George and his henchmen put into the "patriot act,homeland security, et. al, who knows if we'll even have an election!
signed
Conductor of the "two dog" railroad
Obama in 08 American and the WORLD can't wait! "
a teacher wrote on Jun 9, 2008 7:19 PM:
Oil prices are dictated by:
1) Supply - the democrats control the actual amount of oil in the Earth. I guess they have a time machine and go back and dig up dead dinosaurs.
Hey, what do you call a democrat who has Neo-conservative views and backs the Republican candidate?
A DINO, democrat in name only. It kind of fits.
2) Oil Production - Yep, the Democrats control that. They just have to say the word and the Sheiks turn up the spigots. Just like they did for Bush.
3) Demand - The Democrats control the appetite of the world for petroleum. I hear that they have a phone bank to call random Chinese and Indians and suggest that they buy Hummers
4) What the Cato Institute calls the "Fear Premium" - You know, things like labor unrest, disastrous weather, political unrest, WAR. Yep, all the Democrats fault (except for the WAR).
Hey, it just occured to me.
Why didn't Regan or Bush the first change the laws on nuclear power plants? "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 9, 2008 7:21 PM:
After this Administration has done this man what they've done to millions..( Including Americans), Here is what could be possibly what he REALLY thinks...
Please understand this quote is given in FULL context!
"At times, Powell has taken his fate with resigned humor. Hendrik Hertzberg wrote in The New Yorker last year of a diplomatic soiree that Powell attended on the eve of war, at which a foreign diplomat recited a news account that Bush was sleeping like a baby. Powell reportedly replied, "I'm sleeping like a baby, too. Every two hours, I wake up, screaming." source - Slate
If THAT doesn't tell you war mongering rabid right -wingers anything?, then I guess you'll just have to wait for the whole can of worms to come out . my dad always said...if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck..It AIN'T a COW! "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 9, 2008 7:24 PM:
Obama wins 08 as America got tired of this ####! "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 9, 2008 7:43 PM:
"You don't know what you can get away with until you try.
A dream doesn't become reality through magic; it takes sweat, determination and hard work.
Bad news isn't wine. It doesn't improve with age.
Experts often possess more data than judgment.
Great leaders are almost always great simplifiers, who can cut through argument, debate and doubt, to offer a solution everybody can understand.
Many interviewers when they come to talk to me, think they're being progressive by not mentioning in their stories any longer that I'm black. I tell them, 'Don't stop now. If I shot somebody you'd mention it.
Perpetual optimism is a force multiplier.
War should be the politics of last resort. And when we go to war, we should have a purpose that our people understand and support.
You don't know what you can get away with until you try.
last but NOT least is the following which should ring true to everyone in here discussing the war issues.
The purposes of the United States should not be doubted. The Security Council resolutions will be enforced - the just demands of peace and security will be met - or action will be unavoidable. And a regime that has lost its legitimacy will also lose its power.
-Colin Powell
Dear Rabid right - wingers please read the last quote above several times until you "get it"!
Obama in 08 America can't wait "
NVGal wrote on Jun 9, 2008 8:27 PM:
You are more than likely to blame Bush for the credit crisis as well, so I would like to add this, each American needs to take personal responsibility for their own financial well being so the President of the United States can get on with more pressing matters, like keeping our sovereignty in tack.
Since you are still likely to be complaining about the economy and blaming Bush and all the other Republicans, please write to your democratic friends in Congress and ask them to approve Bush’s selections for the two empty seats on the Federal Reserves board of governors. They have been sitting empty for over a year because your democratic congress won’t confirm them. Don’t you think that since the economy is in such disarray that it would be a good idea to have all hands on deck at the Fed? "
a teacher wrote on Jun 9, 2008 9:05 PM:
ARMs and loan agreements are a little beyond what the average 12 year old can grasp. However, I spend a week (I wish it could be more) teaching simple interest and credit. I tell them that money isn't free and if they don't master the concept of credit before they are 18, they will be taken advantage of by the hoard of Credit Card Companies waiting for them.
As for who is to blame for our current mess, well, there is plenty to go around. It would be refreshing to see the "conservatives" on this blog take a look in the mirror rather than blame liberals and democrats for all the ills f the country. The republicans have been at the helm for more than a few years, they should own up to steering us into rocky waters. "
napabrat wrote on Jun 9, 2008 9:46 PM:
NVGal - With regards to the "credit crisis" you speak of, first let me be begin by saying I have over 25 years of experience in the mortgage banking industry. It is my firm opinion that top of the list for reasons which lead to the oft referred to "mortgage meltdown" would be the total lack of proper regulation of the mortgage industry and it's credit guidelines. That taken one step further, to the non-existant enforcement of the minimal laws/regulations that did exist resulted in the situation we currently find ourselves in. i.e. "Foreclosures-r-us" :-) A Dark1 previously posted a true story about an applicant who was sent in through a mortgage broker that was requesting a stated income loan. The employment was listed as McDonalds and he was attempting to buy at $1,000,000 on an 80/100% financing program (industry standard program at the time). Needless to say the file was declined, however my point would be that Wall Street was actively buying these types of loans. When the mortgage market shifted from FNMA/FHLMC conforming loans which were primarily "full doc" files (meaning income and assets are verified), to Wall Street becoming a major player in buying loans on the secondary market the credit guidelines disintegrated into "stated income" (what you say you earn we believe), or "No Ratio" (where you tell us where you work and your title but no mention of income), or "No Doc" (where you don't tell us anything about income/employment and we do not verify your assets). "
napabrat wrote on Jun 9, 2008 10:05 PM:
Long story cut short, my employer went out of business as did countless other lenders, mortgage bankers and mortgage brokers. Seems to me I've heard a few of you refer to Bear Stearns in these posts.
Oh and NVGal, common sense (I mean the concept there of, not the screen name) should always be used when executing financial agreements. One should NEVER execute a legally binding contract (your Note and Deed of Trust) if you do not understand the terms to which you are agreeing. If people took the time to try and read their documents before they signed them instead of just trusting that your friendly loan officer or real estate agent (getting paid a large commission on the deal typically) is accurately describing the loan terms.
By the way the Truth in Lending disclosure was designed by our Federal government as "a means of comparing the true cost of the credit". No one ever said they were going to make it easy to understand, although they are talking about revising the disclosures. This has been in the works for a few years now, instead of making any real revisions the solution so far has been just to add other disclosures regarding specific items or products. The end result of that is that when you go to sign your documents for the loan transaction the disclosures typically outweigh and outnumber the actual legal documents that are required. This probably leads to why no one really reads their documents anyway.
Ok enough on the tangent...:-) "
common sense wrote on Jun 9, 2008 10:18 PM:
"Saddam's existing biological and chemical weapons capabilities pose a very real threat to America, now. Saddam has used chemical weapons before, both against Iraq's enemies and against his own people. He is working to develop delivery systems like missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles that could bring these deadly weapons against U.S. forces and U.S. facilities in the Middle East." -- John Rockefeller, author of the recent intelligence report, Oct 10, 2002
"As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -- Nancy Pelosi, December 16, 1998 (2 YEARS BEFORE BUSH TOOK OFFICE!)
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -- Ted Kennedy, September 27, 2002
"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow." -- Bill Clinton in 1998 (2 YEARS BEFORE BUSH TOOK OFFICE!)
At least former Democrat (now Independent) Senator Lieberman still has integrity. "
common sense wrote on Jun 9, 2008 10:21 PM:
"Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to weapons of mass destruction. Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." -- Al Gore, 2002
"Saddam Hussein's regime represents a grave threat to America and our allies, including our vital ally, Israel. For more than two decades, Saddam Hussein has sought weapons of mass destruction through every available means. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons. He has already used them against his neighbors and his own people, and is trying to build more. We know that he is doing everything he can to build nuclear weapons, and we know that each day he gets closer to achieving that goal." -- John Edwards, Oct 10, 2002
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security." -- Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002 "
NVGal wrote on Jun 9, 2008 11:49 PM:
I hope James Cayne is looking in the mirror when he stops scratching his head and starts pointing a finger. "
matt@newspeak wrote on Jun 10, 2008 12:58 AM:
Seriously though, Pres. Reagan gave a fine speech in front of the Berlin Wall in 1987– although in 1996, Dr. Condoleezza Rice declared the speech “not part of the real policy agenda” and former Bush 41 National Security Advisor Brent Scowcroft called it “corny in the extreme.”
Probably the biggest significance of the speech was the first two words of its most famous line “Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall.” By directly appealing to Gorbachev, Reagan acknowledged him as a reformer capable of allowing the wall to come down, but also reforming Moscow and improving US/Soviet relations.
Again this underscores the point I’ve been making- that many of our favorite tales of triumphalism, often have stronger and more productive undercurrents of diplomacy and negotiation- and that, in my opinion, is a good thing.
Common Sense, to answer one of your countless questions at this point: if you look at my column for this week, which posted a few days ago, I actually address my feelings about Democrats who authorized the war and failed to act as a party of opposition in 2002. BTW: its one main reason why the guy who publicly spoke against the invasion in ’02 is now our nominee. I belong to a political party, not a cult, and I am willing to criticize it and work harder within it to improve it. How about you? "
a teacher wrote on Jun 10, 2008 6:35 AM:
However, the charge that really scared the public into war was that he was developing nuclear weapons. Of that charge, the Administration was much less sure. The "intelligence" used to make the case that Saddam was making the bomb and had operational links with Al Qieda was bogus AND the administration knew it. That is the real charge of the Rockefeller report.
Additionally, there was intelligence that Saddam had destroyed his WMD's. People in the CIA have come forward to say that we had intelligence of this, we told the White House and the weren't interested. Plus the UN who had inspectors on the ground in Iraq were reporting that they weren't finding anything.
I am unimpressed that Congress was fooled by the lies and distortions of the administration. "
Sandra wrote on Jun 10, 2008 8:49 AM:
Conductor of the "two dog" railroad"....Not unless your name reflects something other than your appearance... I made the assumption you were other than pasty toned in color by your name and the claim that you were not white. The older gentleman up the street is very white, I do know he loves family and children, as he invites parents to bring their kids for train rides cunducted by him on sunday afternoons. I do not know his political affiliation, or who he is advocating for Pres. BUT, I am pretty sure you have a HUGE sign w/ Obama's name somewhere in your yard, as you love repeating his name a lot. No signs other than "disorient express" and "two dog railroad" are displayed up the street. Quit trying to take credit for his eccentricity, and sweet nature. You really do not have to claim to be him, envy is not an attractive trait, and you have enough of your own intresting attributes to make you unique....Aside from all of that, this blog is getting very tiresome with the continued mud slinging, such as "war mongering rabid right -wingers " and "The reason they keep bringing up Clinton is, well, they got nothing else", "read my post slowly", "right - wingers please read the last quote above several times until you "get it"...to be fair, I tried to find some "slung" mud from the other side...only found 1 ..."elitist liberals". Seems tame in comparison, signed FMC "
glenroy wrote on Jun 10, 2008 10:12 AM:
There are countless articles, in depth nonpartisan, discussing and debating the issue of the federal budget expenditures, the accurate ones written by those who managed or consulted within the respective agency. Foreign Affairs, over the last 50 years, has by far proven to have the most scrutinized of readily available data pulled from the various departments budgets. FA commentary and analyses on the disproportionate spending on social welfare programs to the paltry amounts spent on national defense is a frequent topic and the percentages have consistently been dead on….
I doubt one in a thousand government employees have any idea which departments disperse what component of the publics ‘safety net’…though I don’t know for sure, but I would almost bet every federal department gets a slice of the welfare pie, if for no other reason than to hide the real cost. "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 10, 2008 10:42 AM:
Sandra,
Your statement, "You are not, "signed
Conductor of the "two dog" railroad"...."
I do believe we had a missed meeting of the mind here.
I took what you said as POLITICAL ALLEGORY NOT PERSONAL. If, there was confusion and you are offended, then I do sincerely apologise and regret any mixup .
Secondly:
You are indeed correct, I am NOT white.( Nor could I even pass :) )
Third:,
You are also correct in my having Obama signs on my property, although they have yet been torn down again or simply stolen.
That being said, I think a LOT of the values espoused by you concerning your neighbor I do believe I share.. Ie: love of family etc.
I trust this clarifies what I said and meant?
So no, I have NO intention of taking credit for being, or supporting ANYTHING other then my OWN stance on issues. "
Hear Ye wrote on Jun 10, 2008 11:37 AM:
Talk about selective reading. The "mudslinging" seems to come just as much if not more by the republican/conservative comments who also happen to be the majority of bloggers here. "
glenroy wrote on Jun 10, 2008 11:38 AM:
The President never made a claim that wasn’t first claimed by a DEMOCRAT…their quotes are memorialized with Democrat troop undermining and hindering recruitment, Democrat’s scrambling around calling for the White Flag before the surge was effectively implemented…then desertion temptation, second nature to an ideologue, telling our troops that ‘the war was lost already implying desert, you’re not alone, we‘ll be here to help‘…with a congress like this who needs al Qaeda?
An irony here is that America and Americans is more respected in Kabul and Baghdad than in, or around, Hollywood and Obama’s campaign/supporters. By any definition, except Democrat of course, the causality rates have been extraordinarily low, current totals remains a fraction of prewar DEMOCRAT estimates, by both Clintons on down through Pelosi and Reid. This was a policy initiated by Clinton in 1998 and aggressively supported by virtually all Democrats… at least until it looked like Bush might have another quick war ….then temptation proved to great for the ideologue Democrats who began dropping ’sound bites’ to the press regarding intelligence distortions…distortions began by ideologue Democrats, after the usual flip-flopping continues by ideologue Democrats.
I listened and observed this bull in the mid 1970s while the midst of Democrat internship….it’s the same bull now as it was then, which explains why most moderates and virtually all Democrat conservatives jumped ship to either independent or Republican. "
jeepracer10 wrote on Jun 10, 2008 12:14 PM:
a teacher wrote on Jun 10, 2008 12:44 PM:
A tried and true tactic of the conservative right... Let's see how may repeats we get of the "Obama is a crackhead" charge you made... "
Common Sense wrote on Jun 10, 2008 3:41 PM:
-And stating that everything you disagree with is "tactic" of the "conservative right" is in fact a well-documented tactic of the liberal left! (Reminds me of the "vast right wing conspiracy").
Once again, "teacher" can't debate the issues...he can only try to categorize and label people (despite prior complaints about conservatives doing the same thing to him). Shameful. "
freeport56 wrote on Jun 10, 2008 3:45 PM:
Obama has stated he is going to double the the capital gains tax. Then I am sure he and congress will gut the Bill of Rights. Then all the screaming liberals will turn our country into Marxist heaven. Did I mention the success record of the Dems since they took back the House and Senate: 00
Dill Here Drill Now, Pay Less "
Dwayne wrote on Jun 10, 2008 3:48 PM:
a teacher wrote on Jun 10, 2008 4:03 PM:
dellasumbrella wrote on Jun 10, 2008 6:14 PM:
You have a hard time with mudslinging? Better not go back & read the first two days' worth (just as starters) of anti-Obama posts, then. I wonder what those kind, reasonable folk REALLY think of him.... "
Sandra wrote on Jun 10, 2008 6:21 PM:
Sandra wrote on Jun 10, 2008 6:33 PM:
Talk about selective reading....."
possibly, I will admit there are a lot of entries on this blog....could you post a few examples? I was truly trying to be even handed in my examples...but when I started looking found far fewer from the more conservative side. Either way, my point remains the same...mudslinging only gets people dirty...doesn't enlighten in any way, shape, or form. But if you feel the need to make a point, I would LOVE to see your examples of terrible behavior on this blog by the conservatives. "
misfit wrote on Jun 10, 2008 7:00 PM:
Oh, by the way, did anyone see McCains disaster of a speech on the night that Obama clinched the nomination? First of all, what poor judgment, choosing to go up against Obama like that. The Fox commentators were literally laughing about it. It was pathetic watching him in his speech to a room of 200 people while Obama was speaking to a "Group" of 20,000. It even made me cringe. McCain is boring and he relies heavily on trite phrases and stale jokes that he himself laughs at. Obama isn't joking nor does he belittle his opponents. He is serious and does not need to resort to backhanded tactics and blatant lies. We have suffered mightily from the type of leadership that only sheep could attach themselves to. Our country has had enough of lies and deceit and of bumpkins who can't read a teleprompter and who couldn't hope to inspire a hungry electorate. Didn't these guys take public speaking in highschool??? "At least McCain served his country"? At least Obama has something to say. "
plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Jun 10, 2008 8:35 PM:
But it looks like the debate is well in hand.
I still think nominating a dog is a good idea. A good dog is loyal, never lies to you, protective, a good guard dog, and loves you no matter what. A good dog does not pass any laws or make many demands other than food, exercise, and a nice place to curl up with you. A good dog will give you a big wet kiss, sometimes when you least expect it. A good dog is non-partisan, not a lefty or a righty, but is an FMC (ask Sandra about that). Some dogs even work well with the opposition party (the cats). A good dog will be respected by other countries, although, ummm, there may be some countries where we won't want to send our Chief Dog for a state dinner, if you know what I mean. And the good dog probably won't be impeached unless it gets fleas.
Sounds about perfect for a president, eh? Well, just kidding about the big wet kiss . . . but then, when was the last time your president gave you a big wet kiss? (Now be nice).
From the looks of the last couple of days posts this place needs a good laugh. I'm going to duck (hard for a flamingo to duck y'know) and head out the back door before all of you start throwing old vegetables at me.
PPF "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 11, 2008 12:09 AM:
Thats just nasty!
I really wonder who's behind this one. Of course I'd seen it on a Faux news article.. funny thing the video had fair and balanced on it as well...THAT gave me a chuckle. I really am interested in the 5 W's in Journalism on this one.
WHO, WHAT,WHEN,WHERE and WHY!
Obama in 08 as this has gotta stop!
Things that make you go hmmmm. "
chunk wrote on Jun 11, 2008 12:15 AM:
dellasumbrella wrote on Jun 11, 2008 7:30 AM:
Matt, Teacher, ADark1, Napabrat, & a few others, thank you for trying to stick with dialogue and refrain from name calling for as long as you did. I admire your persistence and ability to keep your cool in this debate. When subjected to repeated name-calling and emotional logic, as I think we've seen in other debates and campaigns over the years, even the best cheek-turners sometimes succumb to playground combat tactics. It's been an eye-opener to read all this; fortunately I've been taking breaks to read well-researched and evenly presented recommendations for negotiation and diplomacy written by the U.S. Institute of Peace. That's kept me grounded.
BTW, did you hear Bush on Iran? "We should use diplomacy," he said. Long time coming. "
a teacher wrote on Jun 11, 2008 9:05 AM:
Dwayne wrote on Jun 11, 2008 10:27 AM:
Hear Ye wrote on Jun 11, 2008 11:06 AM:
Well you really only gave one example from each side then said its mostly "liberals" doing the mudslinging. I agree that there are a lot of posts in here and don't particularly care enough to go through them all for examples. At a quick glance I can see comparing Obama and his supporters to socialist and communist. A whole mudsling post by Skip thats right out of the famous smear e-mail about Obama. Of course the never ending comments implying a vote for Obama is a vote for terrorists or how we will be wearing Burkas if he's President.
IDK, maybe we have different ideas to what qualifies as mudslinging. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure you could find more mudslinging from your opposition as well. "
Common Sense wrote on Jun 11, 2008 11:42 AM:
Dwayne wrote on Jun 11, 2008 11:51 AM:
Dwayne wrote on Jun 11, 2008 11:53 AM:
Hope: 'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.' " "
Hear Ye wrote on Jun 11, 2008 12:39 PM:
Thanks for proving my point. I highly recommend researching those e-mails you get. That quote is inaccurate AND misleading.
Here is the accurate and more complete quote: "Of course, not all my conversations in immigrant communities follow this easy pattern. In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken their sense of security and belonging. They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark underbelly; they need specific assurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."
What do you know it seems to make a little more sense now huh. "
plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Jun 11, 2008 1:19 PM:
He only says that he will stand with them. Doesn't read like he will get into the problem and find a solution. These do not seem to be the words of a healer, but someone ready to quickly take a stand against the country. I don't expect him to say 'my country right or wrong', but I do expect to hear what he is going to do constructively to correct the country's mistakes, not what side he is going to take.
It's a fine line but fine lines are what candidates for president use to define (or not define) themselves. It's one of those little things like the flag lapel pin, that by themselves are minor and can be forgotten, but enough of them might make voters ask even more tough questions. "
Dwayne wrote on Jun 11, 2008 1:24 PM:
Obama is as close as this country has ever come to going down the toilet. "
a teacher wrote on Jun 11, 2008 1:29 PM:
Anyone can take a sentence out of context. I would think that any public person has many acquaintances and friends who have done questionable things or have controversial opinions.
Consider Mr. McCain's pursuit of the Rev. Jim Hagge's endorsement. There is a man who's support of Israel is from his belief that he is hastening the Apocalypse. Who believes the Pope is the Anti-Christ and that New Orleans had it coming.
Or maybe we can talk about the "Keating Five".
If you want to debate the man's positions, I'm all ears. If you want to engage in character assassination, I don't think that will play well with the voters. We've had enough of that. "
Dwayne wrote on Jun 11, 2008 1:29 PM:
Character means something to most of us. "
a teacher wrote on Jun 11, 2008 1:36 PM:
A) Here Ye didn't cite the source, because you did.
B)You used Obama's "liberal rag" to quote him. AND then said that you wouldn't "waste your time reading that crap". So, how did you ge the quote?
Gossip? "
Sandra wrote on Jun 11, 2008 1:44 PM:
Hear Ye wrote on Jun 11, 2008 1:52 PM:
Sometimes you just have to admit when you're wrong. You put out an inaccurate quote from The Audacity of Hope and then ask for my sources when I put the real quote out there? Uh... my source is The Audacity of Hope.
The real quote isn't really a political one. It's a statement that all americans should agree with and/or understand.
"that liberal rag he wrote"? Now I know for sure that you have no idea what the book is even about. "
Sandra wrote on Jun 11, 2008 1:55 PM:
napabrat wrote on Jun 11, 2008 2:02 PM:
glenroy my budget stats were from wikipedia for the 2006 federal budget. Defense 20%, social security 21% (oh and medicare/medicaid was another 19%), discretionary spending was the largest category at 31% (not sure exactly what's lumped in that category) and the remaining 9% was for interest. "
Hear Ye wrote on Jun 11, 2008 2:18 PM:
I guess we disagree on what mudslinging is. I see things different than you and no matter how many times I re-read your post I still understand it the same. Thanks for the advice though. "
Dwayne wrote on Jun 11, 2008 2:26 PM:
Next you'll want me to read the Koran. Fat chance. Are you trying to convert me?
I recognize evil when I see it, and this whole Obama thing is very frightening.
I'm done here, but it's been fun... Sort of... "
Hear Ye wrote on Jun 11, 2008 2:55 PM:
I think it would be fun/educational to read all religious texts. As a Christian I prefer the Bible myself but I also like to learn new things in my free time. While I highly recommend Christianity to you I wouldn't try to convert you or anyone so you needn't worry. "
Sandra wrote on Jun 11, 2008 3:23 PM:
Mr_Napa wrote on Jun 11, 2008 4:21 PM:
NVGal wrote on Jun 11, 2008 5:15 PM:
Obama tends to make decisions that are very popular with people that feel they haven’t had their “American Dream”. Since I feel very strongly that I am living the “American Dream”, Obama makes me feel that I am somehow privileged, elitist, and that now it is someone else’s turn. I have been working hard under Regan, Bush Sr., Clinton, Bush Jr., and Obama makes me feel that I have just been wasting my time. I feel like he is going to rip it all away and give it to someone else that didn’t work as hard or didn’t make the best decisions and take personal responsibility like I have.
Why would I ever vote for someone who makes me question their loyalty to America and makes me feel bad about myself?
For all the bad that McCain is, he is also gritty, America loving and makes me still believe in the American Dream that I learned was possible under Regan. I love America and I love my life, I am not giving it up so someone can stand against what I believe in when the winds change. "
misfit wrote on Jun 11, 2008 6:37 PM:
Hear Ye wrote on Jun 11, 2008 7:01 PM:
I feel basically the opposite as you about Obama. I think he has set a great example with his own life that the American dream is alive and possible for anyone. His opposition generally tries to paint him as elitist, which surprises me that you feel he is trying to paint you in that way.
I also feel that he loves America every bit as much as McCain. It saddens me that we live in a time where wanting more for your country and being critical of some things can be perceived as anti-American when it should be the American way. "
dellasumbrella wrote on Jun 11, 2008 7:18 PM:
So, the count up to approximately 6/9:
(and I included an insult I made as well)
McCain supporters: 45 mud pies thrown at Obama &/or supporters.
Obama supporters: 22 mud pies thrown at McCain &/or supporters.
You wanted early examples? Anti -Obama (& supporter) slings:
"Impeach Obama" "extremist liberal" "wife is a piece of work" "hug a terrorist" "goodbye Bill of Rights, hello socialism" "not honest competition" "refuse to wear a burka" "lily-livered alternatives" (Gore, Kerry) "counting days til freedoms wiped out" "(what you said is) factually obnoxious & naively ridiculous" "Osama...I mean Obama Hussein..." "change the channel--(don't watch just) liberal shows & puppet head news" "flabbergasted at this question" "are you really that uninformed?" "get a little insight" "you don't see the larger picture" "do not understand...shortsighted, foolish" "I suggest you start reading, period."
Anti-McCain (& supporters) slings:
"McSame" "McCain a scary imposter" "Expert in cussing out those who disagree w/him" "strawman attacks" "damage done by Republicans" "(after hearing pro-Obama posts) faith restored in knowing there are reasonable people" "you're all over the place" "(think) world still flat..." "cynical, absolutist positions" "read my post slowly"
That's a representative, 2:1 sample. So who wins the mudslinging contest? "
glenroy wrote on Jun 11, 2008 9:16 PM:
I do not and will not support domestic oil drilling, though we have an estimated 70 billions barrels of recoverable oil within the continental shelve…though our drilling technology is used world wide by virtually every oil producing company and country to drill safely in environmentally sensitive areas…though it is bankrupting hard working American families who are dependant upon private transportation to feed and clothe your children…though it is driving up foods costs both as a result of the cost of fuel and the conversion of food stocks into fuel…I will not allow drilling anywhere or our country to become energy independent as your next President.
I will not support the building of clean, effective and affordable nuclear power plants to meet our nations growing power needs…though it would save an additional 2 to 4 million barrels of oil per day that is currently being used to generate electricity…though our technology is being used by China, India and most of the rest of the world…though our Navy has used nuclear power safely for the past 50 years…as you next President I will not support our nations energy independence.
I will not support the conversion of Shale oils…though our nation has 1.5 trillion recoverable barrels that can be refined profitably for a third the cost of current world oil prices…though the recoverable reserves can fuel all our energy needs for the next couple hundreds years…as your next President I will not support our nations energy independence.
I will raise taxes on our nations oil companies…through the federal government makes two and half times the oil companies profits…I will do that… as your next President or as a loyal and partisan ultra-liberal senator. "
RACZ wrote on Jun 11, 2008 10:24 PM:
ADark1 wrote on Jun 12, 2008 2:52 AM:
I came up with a few awards based on the McCain /Obama Thread..
!!!!!!!!!!!!!FOR FUN ONLY!!!!!!!!!!!
Please realize I am NOT flaming anyone at all...This really is all in fun..Can we afford to laugh at ourselves? That being said...I thought I could talk to Dan about Bloggermania Awards, and these are the winners so far. These are in no particular order!
MEMO TO SELF:
1.TO: DellasUmbrella You go girl award! ( can you believe she / he went thru every post?) and gives her a Bamma Pound"!.
2. TO: GlenRoy , Mentelist of the year Award. I think he has a future in the Tarot card /Mind Reading racket or even on the Vegas Strip doing mentalist shows..( Who knew mind - reading could reveal so much?) "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 12, 2008 2:53 AM:
That being :" McCain is basically meaningless in this election. It's a referendum abut Obama. You will either vote for him, or against him. "
( I KNEW you had it in you even though both sides pretty much gave up on you ever making a valid comment!)
4.PPF again gets nominated for comic of the year award and for bringing lightness to a very nasty brawl!
5. To CHINA for being the FIRST PUG to be nominated for President!
6.To : VALLEYLOCAL I bestow a gag and ball award, for FINALLY being speechless!
7. TO:FUNNYME : Best comeback quip of the week award for the response In some instances speechless is good...very good."!
8.TO: SkipM for scratched record award,( pre dvd / cds you young ones) with " Vote for McCain!..Impeach Obama!" "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 12, 2008 2:55 AM:
10.TO: Sandra , pitbull of the year award for doggedly sticking to her guns even when she's "choke" right....or wrong! :)
10.TO: MATT@NEWSPEAK, The Dali Lama Award for attempting to reason against all odds!
11. TO: COMMONSENSE, Spin Doctor of the year Award!
12.TO: NVGAL, Anne Frank writers award for her journal titled" A future entry in my journal under President Obama – ".
13.TO:TrickleDown, the Diplomacy award for trying to reason with fact and truth!
14.TO:ATEACHER, Educator of the year award even though he thinks all the right - wingers and FMC's are on crack..Teach? Your persistence and patience are the standard for the rest of us.
15.TO:Russ, Movie Critic of the year award for hating Charlie Wilson's War!( not really...right?)
16. TO: Hawkins707,You tuber of the year for making no sense out of non - sense.
17.TO: MISFIT, Dazzle em with brillance award for having not one person respond to his "keating 5 " comment!
18.TO: Steph, best fence sitter award as no one is quite sure who she's gonna vote for!, based on her statement,"It IS time for change, but I don't sincerely believe either candidate represents real change".
19. TO:MYTWOCENTS, the no nonsense award..( need I say more?)
20. TO: GLENROY, Clinton hater of the year award..psssst Glenroy.. he isnt running.
21. TO:cab e-girl, propagandist of the month for her ability to find a marxist, pacifist, neo - commie at ten paces! "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 12, 2008 2:55 AM:
23.TO: 109823, Most confused award as evidenced by the following:"" I'm confused, you ask a question of the commenters, I follow the comment guidelines list some facts that support my decisions but you won't post them. OK, McCain,I can't tell you why because it won't get posted!! "
24.TO:XMAN. and RACZ , The HUH? Award,..their posts are self - explanatory!
" Do we whant sombody who has never flew before but set in an airplane, and now he wants to be the pilot! "
Finally I will accept the "You'll NEVER work in this Town Again Award.....due to my having a little fun!
Please note, no Right - wingers, Left - wingers, Liberals, Libertarians or Fear Mongering Centrists were harmed in this production.. "
a teacher wrote on Jun 12, 2008 6:36 AM:
Talk about the depths that some people will go to discredit someone. "
Sandra wrote on Jun 12, 2008 8:24 AM:
Dellasumbrella, I had a response to you...but you will have to wait for the re-response when I have more time.
stupid image verification...must be a liberal elitist (you do know that's a joke, right?) "
freeport56 wrote on Jun 12, 2008 8:56 AM:
Today, pressure is being put upon many European counties to enact Sharia Law to serve the Muslim population. It is being tried here as well. Grocery store employees who are Muslim will not check out pork or alcohol product, nor can you carry them in some cabs driven by Muslims.
As far as negotiating with them, good luck. They look at westerners as infadels, less than human. It is even written in the Qu'ran that it is part of the Muslim faith and their duty to kill the infadel. If you have not read the Qu'ran, you should should. You should know your enemy. Obama is naive to think he can negotiate with the Arabs. While he has an olive branch in one hand he should have a B-52 in the other. "
cab e-girl wrote on Jun 12, 2008 8:56 AM:
dellasumbrella wrote on Jun 12, 2008 9:02 AM:
And to you, the Wrapping It Up With The Kind Of Humor That Actually Makes Me Laugh Award!
(Not that I think it's really a wrap)
A teacher: Thanks for the addendum. I didn't dare venture into that territory. "
cab e-girl wrote on Jun 12, 2008 9:33 AM:
We are in desperate need of a comprehensive energy policy. We haven't built a new refinery since 1976. We haven't built a nuclear power plant since the 70's. Congress and the current administration wants to throw money into ethanol.......yawn. Can we make a bio-fuel that makes more fuel than it requires to produce it?
I have two questions for the Department of Energy and the Department of Transportation. WHERE ARE YOU? WHAT ARE YOU DOING?
I think it is time to start demanding answers from our politicians and bureaucrats about these issues. "
valleylocal wrote on Jun 12, 2008 10:04 AM:
McCain does not inspire, unless you are pro war. If you are pro war, you are in the minority and very misguided. "
steph wrote on Jun 12, 2008 10:12 AM:
I'm leaning toward Frank McEnulty.
All this arguing over who is least horrible--Democrats or Republicans--gives me indigestion. And my neck hurts from shaking my head in disbelief. "
funnyme wrote on Jun 12, 2008 10:17 AM:
Thanks for the recognition...I'm speechless, and that's NOT good...:) "
MarshaMarsha wrote on Jun 12, 2008 10:24 AM:
glenroy wrote on Jun 12, 2008 1:46 PM:
As for Obama crack smoking…if you are unaware of Obama’s admittance…that’s fine, but it has nothing to do with discrediting Obama...his incompetence speaks for itself leaving no doubt that he is merely another ultra-liberal of the Jimmy Carter strain……so, if you don’t have any credit there is nothing for us to try and discredit….
Drill here…drill now…or say goodbye to your American dreams! "
Common Sense wrote on Jun 12, 2008 2:19 PM:
Most politicians are corrupt...the Founding Fathers recognized this, and distributed power as much as possible. Since Democrats are likely to retain control of congress (despite approval ratings lower than President Bush's), it makes sense to have a little Republican insurance in the White House.
Having both parties in control of at least one branch of government forces good debate, and is the best way to protect our country from the extremes and excesses of either party. "
Common Sense wrote on Jun 12, 2008 2:31 PM:
I've served in a combat zone. I think war should always be a last resort. My concern with Obama is that he will end up getting us in to a much bigger war. I simply don't trust Obama. McCain, on the other hand, has proven himself time and time again.
I think it is shameful to not be inspired by McCain's life story...even if you disagree with his politics. Few people have given so much for their country and asked for so little in return. "
glenroy wrote on Jun 12, 2008 2:58 PM:
Like it or not, McCain is much more pragmatic than Obama.. or.. Obama is much more the ideologue…take your pick…to his credit McCain did not supported the Democrat moratorium on the Shale Oil development, which incidentally Jimmy Carter wisely spent a few billion trying to get off the ground during his time in office. Since then, Raytheon has developed a process using radio waves to heat and separate the oil from the shale in the ground without disturbing the surface which can be done profitably at $30.00 per barrel. 1.5 trillion recoverable barrels with a density of 2 million per acre sitting at or on the surface…our country has the largest known revocable reserves, Canada being a distant 2nd, in the world and dwarfs the middle east and all OPEC combined. But Democrats just 2 days ago, the 2nd attempt by Republicans in the past 30 days, voted down lifting the this mindless partisan moratorium…meanwhile the wage earning public suffers because Democrats want the public to blame it all on Bush. They are mindless.
Obama is hell bent in support of the wind fall tax which most 2nd graders realize is paid by the consumer not the provider. .every penny of new tax is another penny added to the product..….the rest of the world is also paying a price for this horrible Democrat policy with rising fuel and food costs…the only possible solution is energy independence. "
cab e-girl wrote on Jun 12, 2008 3:45 PM:
Common Sense wrote on Jun 12, 2008 3:50 PM:
cab e-girl wrote on Jun 12, 2008 3:59 PM:
Hear Ye wrote on Jun 12, 2008 4:38 PM:
So where does one find out about Obamas admitted Crack use? I can't seem to find it anywhere. "
Hear Ye wrote on Jun 12, 2008 4:50 PM:
I think anyone who follows even an inkling of politics knows Jon McCain's service to our country. He was heroic and brave in a way very few people are capable I believe.
Unfortunately for him I don't think military service is a prerequisite for the White House. "
cab e-girl wrote on Jun 12, 2008 5:48 PM:
russ wrote on Jun 12, 2008 7:02 PM:
Unfortunately tho', I must decline my award for Movie Critic on the Year, as I subsequently stated that I had enjoyed Charlie's War.
I offer ADark1 the "Brian Copeland Special Achievement Award" for good sense of humor (for a liberal) and being able to admit when he erred. "
a teacher wrote on Jun 12, 2008 7:02 PM:
Doing "a line of coke" evokes an image of hip yuppies. "Smoking a rock" evokes something else entirely. You can guess who that charge is aimed at. "
Sandra wrote on Jun 12, 2008 7:20 PM:
dellasumbrella wrote on Jun 12, 2008 8:54 PM:
I'm in agreement with you that we're not going to change each others' minds in this debate. We all seem pretty much set in our ways.
But what's fascinating (as well as disturbing) to me is to see the process of a smear campaign unfolding in what some hold as a serious discussion....it doesn't surprise me--the practice of taking misinformation, distortions and outright slander that's disseminated through the internet and presenting it as "truth" has been a popular technique in campaigns the past few years and is proudly advertised by certain 527s and political consultants on their websites in order to attract clients who don't really care about truth. Some of what's been called "mudslinging" here is actually a well-organized and contagious smear campaign happily perpetuated and passed off as either "fact" or "sense of humor".
I'm not saying that about all those here who oppose Obama. Some of the posts have been sincere and I've appreciated some of the more thoughtful points of view. But I agree most of us are not likely to cross to the other side. I know I'm not. I'm rigid, reflexive, and right. I mean left. I mean....
And being liberal, I have a sense of humor to die for. "
Hear Ye wrote on Jun 12, 2008 9:55 PM:
Who's playing more mean on these comments may not have been your point but you still wrote it out and can't expect no one to respond if they don't agree with you. No one on here is bound by your definition of mudslinging. I respect your position and accept my end of the blame for derailing the real subject of this blog with something that is of no real significance to me and surely yourself.
As for the topic of opinions. I agree everyone has a right to one but that doesn't mean we shouldn't call people out who are empirically wrong. If my opinion was that you had 7 eyes instead of 2 would you take me serious? "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 13, 2008 3:07 AM:
Don't slam on the opposition..just tell me what really are the specific reasons why you support one or the other? Please bear in mind, claiming experience etc doesn't fly with either side. We all SHOULD be able to agree, Nothing prepares you completely for the job of President of the United States.
That being said.....
Recent Polls show that a majority of registered voters are keen on voting for change as opposed to the same old ####!
The polls also show,Obama has a small but significant lead over McCaine nationwide..I believe the continuation of the status quo, ( politically speaking) shows the American Public is fed up! This could possibly be the reason that Obama retains the lead he has. Another poster to this site properly stated that polls could be skewed..However, when the names of the candidates were taken out of the equation, the results remained pretty much the same! Why this major shift in American Politics? being Black and "pretty" isnt enough nor is being an old war horse. Is there something no one has singled out other then a deep dis- satisfaction with the political landscape as it stands now?
Things that make you go hmmm... "
dellasumbrella wrote on Jun 13, 2008 6:09 AM:
Thanks for your response, and now coudja loosen your jaws on my backside please? (just kidding -- see ADark1 #10) "
Common Sense wrote on Jun 13, 2008 8:45 AM:
1. Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki sent the Iraqi army into Basra. It achieved in a few weeks what the British had failed to do in four years: take the city, drive out the Mahdi Army and seize the ports from Iranian-backed militias.
2. When Mahdi fighters rose up in support of their Basra brethren, the Iraqi army at Maliki's direction confronted them and prevailed in every town -- Najaf, Karbala, Hilla, Kut, Nasiriyah and Diwaniyah -- from Basra to Baghdad.
3. Without any American ground forces, the Iraqi army entered and occupied Sadr City, the Mahdi Army stronghold.
4. Maliki flew to Mosul, directing a joint Iraqi-U.S. offensive against the last redoubt of al-Qaeda, which had already been driven out of Anbar, Baghdad and Diyala provinces.
5. The Iraqi parliament enacted a de-Baathification law, a major Democratic benchmark for political reconciliation.
6. Parliament also passed the other reconciliation benchmarks -- a pension law, an amnesty law, and a provincial elections and powers law. Oil revenues are being distributed to the provinces through the annual budget.
7. With Maliki having demonstrated that he would fight not just Sunni insurgents (e.g., in Mosul) but Shiite militias (e.g., the Mahdi Army), the Sunni parliamentary bloc began negotiations to join the Shiite-led government. (The final sticking point is a squabble over a sixth Cabinet position.)
The disconnect between what Democrats are saying about Iraq and what is actually happening there has reached grotesque proportions. "
Sandra wrote on Jun 13, 2008 9:12 AM:
John Richards wrote on Jun 13, 2008 1:02 PM:
mytoosense wrote on Jun 13, 2008 1:28 PM:
plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Jun 13, 2008 4:18 PM:
Pit bulls (Sandra the FMC pit bull - maybe the mascot for our new third party?), bad cooking, terrorist hugging, crack smoking, John McCain and Scarlett Johannsen having a night on the town, al-qaeda bombing hotels, armies marching to and fro, politics on the playground (spilled out from the classroom eh?), slander, opposition slamming, someone with 7 eyes, a pretty black war horse, Jimmy Carter strained something, poor steph has indigestion and her head hurts, Congress attacking oil companies (amusing mental picture of some out-of-shape lawyers assaulting gas station attendants), Nero and Caligula riding horses into the Senate chamber (brings to mind something about the horse you rode in on), pollsters being skewed (skewered?), Obama wandering around with an olive branch and a B-52, laws are being passed, and how can anyone make a point in 300 words or less? Then we find out that ADark1 is an engineer on a 2 dog railroad and I must be trying to make a political point with humor (if you can find the political point in this post, please let me know).
And that's just from the top 20 or 30 (out of 285 or so) comments! Holy cats!
OK so maybe I got some of those things jumbled together (it's more interesting that way), but it sure looks like Friday the 13th around here. I wonder, is it a full moon too? "
TrickleDown wrote on Jun 13, 2008 4:35 PM:
1. Can you name a country that has been hit by terrorist attacks by al Qaeda that has zero involvement in Iraq, Saudi Arabia or other countries of the region?
2. When has a country that doesn't have a hand in the middle east been attacked?
Fortunately I am one of the minority of Americans that can identify Egypt on a map, and can also let you know in the Middle East, by default "having a hand in the middle east". On top of that: who was the target in Egypt? Israeli vacationers. Israel also is located in the middle east, so I get bonus points!!!
Tunis: Wait...where is Tunisia located? Ah, middle east again. Who was the target? A synogogue (not a hotel, as you say...details).
Kenya: A hotel was hit, yes. Who owned the hotel? An Israeli. Who was staying at the hotel (and can easily be assumed to be the targets)? Israelis.
Now, my point, which got lost, was that when a COUNTRY is attacked by terrorists (e.g. train in Spain, trains in London, WTC, etc.) these countries can easily be shown to be meddling in the middle east. The "counterexamples" you give all fall have middle east ties, but more importantly wouldn't be classified as an attack against a country as much as an attack against a religious group or citizens of a country on vacation. "
Sandra wrote on Jun 13, 2008 6:33 PM:
Sandra wrote on Jun 13, 2008 7:39 PM:
russ wrote on Jun 13, 2008 8:03 PM:
Islamonuts freaked out when a Dane published a cartoon. A Dutch writer was murdered by an Islamonut for exercising his free speech in Holland. Islam and Arab loving France has been in discord from its hometown Islamists.
How many terrorists attacks have been prevented? We do not know.
Being involved is not reason to be terrorized. "
Sandra wrote on Jun 13, 2008 8:04 PM:
Obama, no cry (Repeat 4 times)
Said said
Said I remember when he used to sit
In the government yard in D.C.
Obama-serving the hypocrites
As they would mingle with the good people he’d meet
Good ministers he have had, oh good ministers he’s lost along the way
In this bright future you can't forget your past
So dry your tears I say
Obama, no cry
Obama, no cry
Oh my Little mister, don't shed no tears
Obama, no cry
Said, said, said I remember when He used to sit
In the government yard in congress
And then McCain would make the
Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act
which Obama cosponsored
His feet is his only carriage
So he’s got to push on through
But while he’s gone...
Everything's gonna be alright
Ev'rything's gonna be alright
Ev'rything's gonna be alright
Ev'rything's gonna be alright
Ev'rything's gonna be alright
Ev'rything's gonna be alright
Ev'rything's gonna be alright
Ev'rything's gonna be alright
Obama, no cry
Obama no cry, Obama, no cry
Oh, little Mister, don't she'd no tears
Obama, no cry
Obama, Obama, Obama, no cry
Obama, no cry
Oh, my little darlyn no shed no tears
Obama, no cry, yeah
any Mister no shed no tears, Obama no cry "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 13, 2008 8:53 PM:
"in case"! HAH! GOTCHA! Well, that being "IN Case"...guess what? Obama WILL win.
Here are some of the reasons why:
1. John Mac can't debate his way out of a paper bag...Obama will eat him alive.
2. The American public is tired of the same ol same ol...
3. HRC was a better opponent the McCain, and we saw how that played out even when she changed the math, the rules and even moved the goalposts.
4.IF, people get stupid? , and try to attack Obama's character, then they will speak about mcCain divorcing his wife when she was dying and getting married a MONTH after the divorce was final.
5.McCain just aint that smart as he obvoiusly forgot how he got treated by the Republican party in 2000. ALL that is fodder for 2008.
Just getting started.. "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 13, 2008 9:36 PM:
The RNP, has started a smear campaign. here is a sampling:
1.LIE: Rush Limbaugh says a tape exists of Michelle Obama using the word “whitey” from the pulpit of Trinity United.
Truth:No such tape exists. Michelle Obama has not spoken from the pulpit at Trinity and has not used that word.
2.Blogger Larry Johnson wrote on May 31st that he would add “New and dramatic developments. This is a heads up. I’ll post the news Monday morning by 0900 hours. Now I know why people who have seen the videotape say it is stunning. Barack’s headaches are only starting.”
TRUTH:Johnson posted no such update.
3.Proven GOP sleazemeister Roger Stone said on Fox News on June 1st that “there's a buzz, which I believe now to be credible, that some indelible record exists” of a tape of Michelle Obama using the term “whitey.”
TRUTH:Stone conceded on June 2nd that he hasn’t met anyone who has seen the tape and that it therefore may be a hoax.
4.“The Michelle Obama Rant Tape was filmed between June 26th - July 1st 2004 in Chicago, IL at the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition Conference at Trinity United Church: specifically the Women’s Event.”
TRUTH:Michelle Obama was not on a panel, and the Rainbow Push Conference was at the Sheraton.
5.Obama Is Not a Natural Born Citizen!
TRUTH:Senator Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961, after it became a state on August 21st, 1959. Obama became a citizen at birth under the first section of the 14th Amendment
The lies continue on and on...such as...
LIE: Barack Obama is a Muslim
LIE: Barack Obama attended a radical madrassa "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 13, 2008 9:44 PM:
LIE: Senator Obama was sworn into the US Senate using the Koran
Obama's Books Contain Racially Incendiary Remarks
LIE: Barack Obama won't say the pledge
LIE: Barack Obama won't put his hand over this heart during the pledge of allegiance
ALL of this has been proven false.
THESE are some of the reasons the American public WILL NOT support a McCain Presidency! Come on folks...we are TIRED of being lied to and manipulated...With Obama, we at least have some hope again...A LOT more then we can say for hot -headed John McCain!
I do NOT believe any other candidate for the presidency has been in such a microscope..yet...on behalf of us as Americans, the man brushes it off and continues..I'm sure mr. mcCain would have had a few choice words and I do NOT think, they would have been..."hello fine fellow".
I expect to see votes go missing at election time...I won't even talk about what the vegas books are gambling on...he STILL gives us hope when the Republicans took away even that.
Folks, this is why he WILL win. The Republicans have no one to blame other then themselves. They underestimated the brain of the American people. Its a new day, a new time and a new style of politics...McCain cannot begin to fathom , how tired we are of the same old ####!
Obama 08! "
TrickleDown wrote on Jun 14, 2008 12:01 AM:
ADark1 wrote on Jun 14, 2008 2:26 AM:
A Pew Global Attitudes survey released Thursday found that people abroad feel more favorably toward either Obama or McCain than they do toward President Bush. But when they were asked how confident they are that the next president will make good foreign-policy decisions, Obama beat McCain in almost every nation, including 72-19 percent in Spain, 82-33 percent in Germany, 52-17 percent in Indonesia and 31-23 percent in Egypt.
I trust those of you citing a terrorist organization supporting Obama may want to look at some of these other countries ? "
dellasumbrella wrote on Jun 14, 2008 7:30 AM:
And Trickledown.
Time for the UnDumbingDown of America! Reverse the trend! Get it straight, tell it like it is, and change the course!
By the way, did I mention I'm supporting Obama? "
Sandra wrote on Jun 14, 2008 7:58 AM:
Sandra wrote on Jun 14, 2008 8:02 AM:
glenroy wrote on Jun 14, 2008 3:51 PM:
A Moderate Democrat publication called Dakota News recently finished up with a compilation of the congressional voting records…let the facts speak for themselves..
All these programs are needed if we are every to be independant.
Dakota News:
ANWR Exploration
House Republicans: 91% Supported
House Democrats: 86% Opposed
Coal-to-Liquid
House Republicans: 97% Supported
House Democrats: 78% Opposed
Oil Shale Exploration
House Republicans: 90% Supported
House Democrats: 86% Opposed
Outer Continental Shelf (OCS) Exploration
House Republicans: 81% Supported
House Democrats: 83% Opposed
Refinery Increased Capacity
House Republicans: 97% Supported
House Democrats: 96% Opposed
SUMMARY
91% of House Republicans have historically voted to increase the production of American-made oil and gas
86% of House Democrats have historically voted against increasing the production of American-made oil and gas "
dellasumbrella wrote on Jun 14, 2008 4:32 PM:
Glenroy, are you forgetting any other world/economic events that might have contributed to the steady rise in the cost of gas over the past few years?
Isn't denial great? "
Dwayne wrote on Jun 14, 2008 5:18 PM:
glenroy wrote on Jun 14, 2008 5:49 PM:
Coptic Christians, the Egyptians of biblical era, as opposed to the Arab Egyptians now ruling and dominating, like all non-Muslims in the region continue suffering merciless daily slaughter. The Balkans..…virtually the entire perimeter of the former Ottoman Empire is to this day in a state of religious conflict forces pulling, pushing and killing. Most of the conflicts predate the Mayflower...it takes more than a little imagination to presume Islamists exist because of US policy.
Those who advocate this notion that Islamists sprung from our presence, the Hubris mentality, know next to nothing about the regions history AD, nor the driving forces that created al Qaeda. The fact is...al Qaeda Islamists sprung from the Brotherhood which organized to protect against liberalism and liberal causes ...not American presence. But this not just a Western problem, India has suffered unabated slaughter for centuries…Philippines, Thailand…Mongolian China. Dozens of Island tribes throughout the Southern Pacific struggle against Islamists…and virtually all of the conflicts, perhaps excluding a one or maybe two, in Northern, Eastern and Central Africa are Muslim against Christian or traditional inter-tribal faiths, who overwhelming side with Christians…even the natives prefer the choice of the Gospel to the finality of the sword… "
Sandra wrote on Jun 14, 2008 6:38 PM:
kevin wrote on Jun 14, 2008 7:05 PM:
russ wrote on Jun 14, 2008 7:57 PM:
cab e-girl wrote on Jun 14, 2008 8:02 PM:
John Richards wrote on Jun 14, 2008 8:08 PM:
Dwayne wrote on Jun 14, 2008 8:16 PM:
TrickleDown wrote on Jun 14, 2008 8:17 PM:
An analogy: we are like a family who spends on credit cards like crazy and the debt is really starting to affect our everyday lives. We can either apply for another credit card or slow our spending to avoid further debt. Which one is it that the republican party (the party of fiscal conservatism) is choosing? "
cab e-girl wrote on Jun 14, 2008 8:34 PM:
TrickleDown wrote on Jun 14, 2008 9:10 PM:
ADark1 wrote on Jun 14, 2008 10:22 PM:
Having hung out with Tiger ( when he choked on his first pro - outing in Illinois )...I would say CHINA ( my pug) is a much better candidate then Tiger could ever be. Trust me I've seen Tiger gamble! :)
Cab - e-girl? I find it funny you now take some offense (seemingly)at other nations
feeling Obama would be viewed as a much viable candidate for the Presidency.
Obviously, there is much more work to be done here...So in a nutshell. USE LOGIC!
Use "CommonSense" NOT the poster! :)
USE , whatever godgiven thinking processes all of us have and take a critical look at the reality of this country.
Are we so scared of a BLACK man taking the Presidency we'd rather have ALL of us go to HELL in a handbasket?
Are we willing to demonize that candidates WIFE?
Are we willing to believe PROVEN Mistruths, Deceptions and OUTRIGHT LIES, because we cannot accept that our "Political Pundits and leaders LIED to us?
Time for a reality check kids!
There is a NEW sheriff in Town and his name is Barack Obama! "
dellasumbrella wrote on Jun 14, 2008 11:05 PM:
dellasumbrella wrote on Jun 14, 2008 11:06 PM:
ADark1 wrote on Jun 15, 2008 3:47 AM:
A spokesman for the Obama campaign was fired today, due to racially charged remarks . Faux News reported a bitter John McCain was snubbed by NOT being given a immediate clearance to visit the new President.
Joe Blow reportedly stated "There is no hurry......
What's the matter?... You think we're gonna have to change the name of the white - house?".
Can just see it now..."FAUX NEWS" reported today at a state dinner, dignitaries were a bit suprised at the menu. ...
There was no watermelon, collard greens,cornbread or fried chicken that they'd come to love under the previous administration.
Although rumours abounded, no RAP music was played either. Instead a few famous Blues Artists performed. Insiders claim it was to reflect the mood of the Obama Presidency with all the mess he was going to have to clean up in this country.
In a related story, several white house maids and butlers quit claiming "discrimination" based on Mrs. Obama telling them..."DO your Job"
:)
Obama 08! "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 15, 2008 3:54 AM:
But the movie Blazing Saddles keeps popping into my mind when I read some of the posts here...ALL of the characters have the names of some of the bloggers...:)
I know, I know...., I have a twisted mind and "issues" at times..
Obama 08! "
Madison Jay Hamilton wrote on Jun 15, 2008 7:18 AM:
ADark1 wrote on Jun 15, 2008 7:32 AM:
you stated "" ADark1- I am so glad that we live in the US, and that we don't let the rest of world decide who our next president is going to be. As you stated the rest of world has an opinion as to who our next president should be. The thugs in the Middle East would love to see Obama become the next president. If that does not raise a red flag for you, it should. Those of you so called educated liberals have been taught to drink the cool-aid. But what you have failed to learn in a text-book and through the liberal media is how to think for yourself. What does the simple fact that Hamas, Hugo Chavez, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and the rest of the world terrorists and dictators want Obama as our next president tell you? It tells me they think Obama is weak, and for once I agree with them. "
Please tell me then, what are our allies thinking seeing they had the largest margins when it came to their assesement of foreign policy being dictated by Obama vs John Mac?
Secondly, when it comes to being an "educated liberal"? Guess what i NEVER finished college! yet, I managed to own my own business, and am something of a capitalist as I brought google cheap and liked gas and oil futures!
We won't even speak about my last audit when I got nailed by the IRS, for NOT paying taxes on money they "THOUGHT" I should have made.I am NOT wealthy by ANY standards...Like most bloggers here I'm scraping along. So no, that doesn't wash with me either! Do the research. Do the homework. Do a reality check!
Obama 08 "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 15, 2008 7:38 AM:
Due to the Midwest's version of Hurricane Katrina, ( the flooding) I guess "Dubya," is over in Paris learning how to say..."let them eat cake" Too bad he couldn't be bothered to cut his trip short. I guess we'll inherit higher prices for corn, feed and beef! tell ya what! Bush is doing a bang up job! lets hope there is an America left to work on after he and Chaney are FINALLY gone!
Have you noticed? Saudis are going to significantly increase their oil production...Its due to what they see coming even after Bush went begging last month for them to do so, and was told NO!
Things that make ya go hmmmmm. "
cab e-girl wrote on Jun 15, 2008 8:32 AM:
1. I don't mind other countries having opinions about our next president. It's a free country (for now). My point is that if terrorist countries prefer Obama that should raise a red flag for all Americans.
2. Need we discuss common sense? (see Paragraph one)
3. We (me in particular), in no way shape or form have a problem with a candidates skin color. I am concerned about his/her qualifications. Period. The fact that you use skin color as an argument, tells us that we definitely have a lot of work to do here.
4. Michelle Obama demonizes herself, I certainly don't need to.
5. I don't see the world as Democrats Good/Evil and the Republicans Evil/Good. Neither of these candidates are qualified to be president. The media however pushed them to the forefront. We as a nation need to choose who is the lesser of two evils. National Security is an important issue to me. If global terrorists want Barrack Obama, I'm leaning toward McCain, not because I think he would be a great president, but because I think he would be less damaging to our country than Barrack Obama.
6. You folks that see Barrack Obama has a man of hope and change need to ask yourself what change does that mean? Somebody might even ask him........ "
cab e-girl wrote on Jun 15, 2008 8:35 AM:
cab e-girl wrote on Jun 15, 2008 9:29 AM:
I don't understand your first question. I am not sure what you are trying to say. Give me one more chance.
When I was addressing educated liberals, I wasn't referring to you. Other blogger's come to mind........
Congrats on the google buy! Wish I would have included it my portfolio. Kind of nice that you can sell it and only pay 15% capital gains. If Obama is elected, that is the first thing he wants to change. "
Sandra wrote on Jun 15, 2008 10:14 AM:
dellasumbrella wrote on Jun 15, 2008 10:50 AM:
"With our partners, we seek to isolate and marginalize violent extremists who threaten the freedom and peace sought by civilized people of every nation, culture and faith. We can achieve this goal by:
"Promoting democratization and good governance as a path to a positive future, in secure and pluralistic societies;
"Actively engaging Muslim communities and amplifying mainstream Muslim voices;
"Isolating and discrediting terrorist leaders, facilitators, and organizations;
"De-legitimizing terror as an acceptable tactic to achieve political ends; and
"Demonstrating that the West is open to all religions and is not in conflict with any faith.
"America must work to nurture common interests and values between Americans and peoples of different countries, cultures and faiths across the world.
"Far more unites us as human beings than divides us. Especially at a time of war and common threats, America must actively nurture common interests and values. We have shared interests in expanding economic opportunity, promoting peaceful resolution of conflicts, enhancing scientific collaboration, fighting diseases that respect no border, and protecting our common environment. A cornerstone of American policy and public diplomacy must be to identify, highlight and nurture common interests and values."
Now, if conservatives were adhering to their decider's plan, we wouldn't be hearing the level of muslim-bashing we hear from posters here. If muslim groups, extremist or otherwise, as well as our allies (who are currently critical of our foreign policy in spite of shared values) are hopeful for Obama Change, perhaps it's because they believe he'll adhere more closely to the values given lip service by the current administration. "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 15, 2008 2:43 PM:
Allow me to respond to : What does the simple fact that Hamas, Hugo Chavez, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and the rest of the world terrorists and dictators want Obama as our next president tell you? It tells me they think Obama is weak, and for once I agree with them. "
So if they didn't see a chance of negotiation and the rest of our allies do then he's ok on foreign policy?
2."We (me in particular), in no way shape or form have a problem with a candidates skin color". I'm PROUD to be able to debate some one as enlightened as yourself on this issue.Fact of the matter is, even the so called Liberal Media, "Faux News" in this case, called Michelle Obama, "Obama's Baby Momma" Sorry but stunts like that show we as a nation need a LOT of work and they should have at the very least been fined by the FCC. ( not only on that matter)A label like that refer's to an unmarried woman who has children usually by a BLACK neer do well of a husband.
You then stated in part" You folks that see Barrack Obama has a man of hope and change need to ask yourself what change does that mean?". For a start he's thrown out most known lobbyists on the road to the white house. Something John Mac is attempting to still do. With PAC money gone, influence peddling will be at a major premium. This is unlike any candidate we've had in decades.
McCain simply cannot and should not be President as a stop gap measure until the Republicans can field a better candidate.
America cannot wait "
glenroy wrote on Jun 15, 2008 3:13 PM:
Had Democrats worked with, instead of killing Nuclear Power our daily needs would be between 2 to 4 million barrels less. Had Democrats allowed drilling on the outer continental shelf over the past 30 years we could easily be producing another 2 to 3 million barrels per day. Had Democrats allowed ANWAR to proceed back in 1995 another 1 to 1.5 million barrels per day. Worst case a 42% reduction and more probably closer to 60%….were talking a couple hundred thousands jobs and billions off the trade deficit.
Over this same 30 year period countries like Brazil, Columbia and Egypt reserved their dependence becoming oil exporters using the very American Technology.. Democrats claimed was environmentally unsafe to use….who really lied to the American worker?
So what is the proposed Democrat energy policy? Always… more taxation…no drilling where oil is know to exist….no new nuclear power….no shale oil development….and beg the Saudi’s to raise their production a measly 300,000 barrel daily…how pathetic.
That all works for a certain mindset incapable of basic math and/or simply oblivious… but in the minds of those who provide the tax paying jobs…sounds like unnecessary layoffs. "
funnyme wrote on Jun 15, 2008 4:07 PM:
Happy Father's day to all of you dads out there!...without you, some of us wouldn't be able to stay home and be mom to our precious ones :)
Have fun today! "
glenroy wrote on Jun 15, 2008 5:59 PM:
She’s not alone in refusing to support Barack Obama.
And she’s not entirely alone in saying she’ll vote this fall for Republican John McCain instead.
But what makes her unusual is that she holds these views as an elected delegate to the Democratic National Convention in Denver this summer.
“I’m sure people are going to be upset with me,” said Bartoshevich, a 41-year-old emergency room nurse from Waterford in Racine County, and convention delegate pledged to Clinton.
Joe Wineke, chairman of the Democratic Party of Wisconsin, reacted with disbelief when first told Friday afternoon that one of his state party delegates is now a McCain supporter.
“Not a delegate? To the national convention?” said Wineke, who was getting ready for the start of the Wisconsin state party convention Friday in Stevens Point.
“We have a Clinton national (convention) delegate who says she’s voting for John McCain?” Wineke repeated, for clarification. “I’ve never heard of such a thing.”
I suggest the Democrats get used to such a thing. The liberal media selected Barack Obama, and then crammed him down the Democrat Party’s throat by pillorying Hillary in a very crude manner.
There is a revolt brewing in the Democrat party where millions of moderate women, who have just may determine who is the next President. "
a teacher wrote on Jun 15, 2008 7:01 PM:
My favorite is about how the liberal media pilloried Ms. Clinton in a rather crude manner. I guess that since the right has been crudely pillorying Ms Clinton since 1992, you would know. That statement is classic.
As for the rest, well, we'll see.
Imagine how Hillary's gals will react thinking about the justices McCain would put on the bench... "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 15, 2008 8:13 PM:
Lets see it went from a vast right wing conspiracy to a liberal media conspiracy? many of us, ( Democrats) feel HRC is McCain's best friend in her conduct and lack of dignity..However, we feel its water under the bridge. It hasn't gone unnoticed she really isn't out there stumping for Obama either..
BTW? I also wonder how all those ladies out there will feel when they look at the names John Mac called his wife in public and.....How he wants Roe v Wade to be dismantled!!
Wisen up ladies... "
Dwayne wrote on Jun 15, 2008 8:20 PM:
I got a bottle of Japanese peach wine, a $10-dollar cigar, and a box of Jack Daniel's chocolate pralines...
Been sitting on the deck having just one swell time.... I'm proud to be my kid's Dad. "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 15, 2008 8:42 PM:
I stated,A label like that refer's to an unmarried woman who has children usually by a BLACK neer do well of a husband. It should have A label like that refer's to an unmarried woman who has children usually by a BLACK / African - American ( take your pick ) neer do well of a Baby's Daddy!
Hey! its Father's Day and I'm blaming it on the wine.....Happy Father's Day guys!...Anyone want to trade ties and wallets? :) "
kevin wrote on Jun 15, 2008 9:44 PM:
plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Jun 15, 2008 9:49 PM:
ADark1 - while you were having your Father's Day wine, you missed your award presentation over on the Bloggermania I thread. China had to accept the award for you and she went SNARF all over it. Better check in over there . . .
Now for the part of the post that stays on topic, thereby making it legal.
So evidently HRC was a victim of that right-wing MSNBC organization, they never missed a chance to use her like a pinata. There's no wonder she isn't out there stumping for Obama. She's going to keep her powder dry for 2012. Mac will probably be a one term president, and if the US wakes up and decides not to be a socialist country, the voters will be looking to replace Obama by then too. HRC will have her donkeys all lined up and the campaign will begin in 2010. I'm going to donate a roll of duct tape to her campaign, to put a fresh strip over Bill's mouth every morning. "
Hear Ye wrote on Jun 15, 2008 10:12 PM:
What makes one qualified for president? I'm being serious too, just curious what your opinion is? "
freeport56 wrote on Jun 16, 2008 7:33 AM:
Sandra wrote on Jun 16, 2008 8:25 AM:
Madison Jay Hamilton wrote on Jun 16, 2008 8:38 AM:
Sandra wrote on Jun 16, 2008 8:43 AM:
kevin wrote on Jun 16, 2008 8:57 AM:
While I will be the first to admit that John McCain is lacking in some of my criteria, I have yet to see Obama evidence any of them... "
cab e-girl wrote on Jun 16, 2008 9:16 AM:
glenroy wrote on Jun 16, 2008 9:54 AM:
"Larry Sinclair to Reveal Corroborating Information on His Illegal Drug Use With Obama..." "
kevin wrote on Jun 16, 2008 10:50 AM:
a teacher wrote on Jun 16, 2008 11:43 AM:
ADark1 wrote on Jun 16, 2008 11:59 AM:
Regarding your post, "ADark1 wrote on Jun 15, 2008 2:43 PM" and the whole media thing about Obamas wife....You really heard that? Disturbing....but not surprising, ...."To answer your question...No I didn't hear it...BETTER! I'd SEEN it! It was the little chyron on the bottom of the page on "Faux News"
A "Chryon" is the little graphic you see at the bottom of your screen folks for things like names etc.
Kevin wrote Jun 16, 2008 10:50 AM" adark1 said "A label like that refer's to an unmarried woman who has children usually by a BLACK neer do well of a husband." I'm confused. If her HUSBAND fathered the child, how can she be UNMARRIED?
ADark1 wrote on Jun 15, 2008 8:42 PM:
" Correction!!!!!!!!
I stated,A label like that refer's to an unmarried woman who has children usually by a BLACK neer do well of a husband. It should have (read) A label like that refer's to an unmarried woman who has children usually by a BLACK / African - American ( take your pick ) neer do well of a Baby's Daddy!"
Its ok kevin, I'm kinda slow on the uptake in the morning as well...Keep it up and they're gonna nominate you for the nit - pickers award ! :)
Please NOTE The day and times of the posts! "
Hear Ye wrote on Jun 16, 2008 12:10 PM:
I actually agree with probably 80 percent of your qualification criteria. That's why my vote is going to Obama. "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 16, 2008 12:27 PM:
Tell me your NOT really serious? Tell me you're NOT going to believe an over the hill, delusional ex -drag queen who is desperately seeking any type of attention he can get? What now?. Is Obama gonna have to take a Drug test? Why bother? You'll ONLY state he should have taken one during the time the incident alledegly happened. perhaps someone will come on faux news and state Obama is an alien! no glenroy, I DONT mean an Illegal alien..But hey! I guess if they don't get a VISA I guess space aliens could be considered illegal as well! I guess the next thing out of the playbook, will be declarations of Obama runing over kittens, slapping babies,robbing 7-11's,,playing LOUD RAP music in his motorcades, drinking 40's prior to making speeches and pimping ho's! Get a GRIP!
Larry Sinclair is a very sad individual...what's even sadder is some of us who can actually read, write and type the written word, are willing to believe this type of attack as gospel! "
dellasumbrella wrote on Jun 16, 2008 1:20 PM:
Sandra wrote on Jun 16, 2008 3:30 PM:
Joe wrote on Jun 16, 2008 4:41 PM:
plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Jun 16, 2008 4:44 PM:
FULL MOON on the 18TH - we can have a really grand day. Last month full moon day was pretty wild in here.
(goes back home to prepare some fresh mud for Wednesday) "
dellasumbrella wrote on Jun 16, 2008 5:00 PM:
Okay, here goes:
According to Wikipedia (don’t make fun, it was the first definition I came to), bashing consists of “a harsh, gratuitous, prejudicial attack on a person, group or subject.” I suppose some of the statements here have struck me as reflecting the sort of “uncompromising vehemence and bigotry” that the term implies. For instance, repeatedly using the terms “Muslim”, “Islamofascists”, “Islamonuts” and “terrorists” virtually interchangeably; stating unequivocally or implying strongly by reciting isolated facts from history that all Muslims are out to convert everyone or kill those who don’t convert; making sweeping generalizations implying that they are likely to attack anyone who thinks differently than they do; insinuating that anyone who wants to deal with the problem of terrorism by understanding the people behind it are idiots and will destroy democracy and all of humanity; and demonizing a candidate because his father was probably Muslim are, in my mind, harsh, gratuitous and prejudicial. That’s a sample from my memory.
But my real point is, even Bush sees looking at what unites us as human beings more than what divides us, and actively nurturing common interests and values, as a significant part of the approach to problems in the Middle East. Yet Obama is vilified for the possibility that he’ll want to do that.
You picked out one word I used and made an issue of that, ignoring everything else. And I was even being nice to Bush. "
Sandra wrote on Jun 16, 2008 5:41 PM:
Wrong again...No one here, and I know, having read EVERY post, has EVER used the word "Muslim" interchangebly with "islamo Fascist" or "terrorist", "or "islamonut(?)". And that false premise supports all of your other claims. You may, in your head, interchange those words, but not one poster has. And since this premise is very wrong, then you have no basis to make the statements that follow. Your memory does not serve you well. You also go totally off subject of Muslims in general, by narrowing the scope to terrorists, when you say, "insinuating that anyone who wants to deal with the problem of terrorism by understanding the people behind it are idiots and will destroy democracy and all of humanity" . Again, WRONG. You see dellasumbrella, I understand terrorists very well, and I am far from an idiot. I do not think you can deal with terrorism in anyway if you do not understand who terrorists are, what their goals are, and what formed the movement. It is these sweeping false statements, with no basis in fact, that outrage me. Because you see Dellasumbrella, to make such statements implies that anyone who is against terrorism, Islamofascism, etc, is a Muslim Basher. So here's MUD IN YOUR EYE....or should I say my eye. "
doscentavos wrote on Jun 16, 2008 6:53 PM:
We need an articulate, energetic leader this time around. Policies and politics don't really matter this time around. GBush proved over the last 8 years that truth and facts or policies Just Don't Matter...
.
Obama in November! "
dellasumbrella wrote on Jun 16, 2008 8:05 PM:
skeptic wrote on Jun 16, 2008 9:32 PM:
napabrat wrote on Jun 16, 2008 9:48 PM:
Sandra and dellasumbrella I am hereby nominating you for the Rodney King Award to be issued by ADark1 when he returns.
I see you've all been busy while I've been gone. "
cab e-girl wrote on Jun 16, 2008 10:49 PM:
Most-not all- of the conflicts going on in the world today involve Muslims. Have you ever heard of Darfur? "
Sandra wrote on Jun 17, 2008 9:09 AM:
steph wrote on Jun 17, 2008 9:17 AM:
dellasumbrella wrote on Jun 17, 2008 9:37 AM:
Sandra wrote on Jun 17, 2008 10:47 AM:
glenroy wrote on Jun 17, 2008 11:14 AM:
Democrats also claimed drilling for oil off shore and in ANWAR would ruin the environment and do little to keep prices from rising…that when gas was just $1.40 per gallon and despite known reserves in excess of 50 billion barrels…now with gas at $4.30 per gallon Democrats are claiming 50 billion barrels of oil would only reduce the cost a penny a gallon…ok fair enough though just another lie… then tell your Party to knock off the 18.8% federal tax…that would reduce gallon cost to lower $3.25 range…Democrats can lie about the issues, but they can’t hide from their record.
I only brought up Obama’s crack smoking in response to the creditability attacks upon McCain….‘a dangerous man suffering from obvious mental derangement because he was a POW for some 5 and half years‘ (paraphrased)… claimed several Obama supporters on national television.. So I was thinking while of mental impairment, what is ‘good for the kettle is good for the pot‘..…also.. because nobody posting herein can articulate what ‘changes’ Obama has in his mind, not even Obama off the teleprompter can articulate his thoughts much less changes in his mind ….a mind which may be crystallized "
freeport56 wrote on Jun 17, 2008 12:54 PM:
if you are going to argue back that this is only for the rich that taxes will rise. I ask you this, how many poor mpeople in this country own companies and employe people? None! How many wealthy have incomes of $31,850 annually. Historically, as taxes are raised recessions follow. When Kennedy & Johnson cut taxes record growth occurred. Bush Sr. raised taxes(no new taxes speech) a recession occurred. Jr.'s tax cuts produced 52 months of growth.
Lower taxes and tax rates allow the market place to prosper. We narrowly escaped a $1.2 trillion dollar "Carbon Tax" bill written by Sen. Barbara Boxer that would have devastated our economy. The Dems aka Social Engineers have a tax and spend abnormality that is not curable. After 18mos controlling the House and Senate they have done nothing significant but try and raise how much we pay in taxes. Granted the Republicans failed us too. They were drunk with power and failed to live up to their philosophy of lower taxes, less spending, and smaller government.
if you doubt my statistics check out www.politicalvanguard.com and click on publishers corner. Or just google income tax and do some solid research. "
a teacher wrote on Jun 17, 2008 1:02 PM:
Shameful.
But that is the Republican way, isn't it. In the 2000 election with John McCain giving Mr. Bush a run for his money, statements like:.‘a dangerous man suffering from obvious mental derangement because he was a POW for some 5 and half years‘, started appearing. I wasn't the democrats that put that one out.
BTW, I myself have no problem with drilling for oil anywhere in the states. However, Americans have been against drilling in ANWR and off shore for quite a while. You can't blame the Democrats for listening to the will of the people. "
Hear Ye wrote on Jun 17, 2008 2:33 PM:
Wasn't it McCains own party people that started the rumor that he fathered a *gasp* black baby out of wedlock to ruin him in South Carolina? "
Gunga Ga Lunga wrote on Jun 17, 2008 4:49 PM:
freeport56 wrote on Jun 17, 2008 5:29 PM:
I would not take a class from her. The "crack smoking" comment came from a Clinton operative. As a matter of fact Hillary's campaign fired quite a few employees over these type of suberversive comments. Republicans as Gunga Ga Lunga said, the young intern from IL can trip over his own tounge just fine. "
freeport56 wrote on Jun 17, 2008 5:34 PM:
How can you forget the America, backed by her allies, saved the world.
We are forever indebted to those men and their heroic deeds. Good bless their grandkids for taking to task the Talibhan and the the Islamofacists. "
Ruff Limblog wrote on Jun 17, 2008 5:56 PM:
Yes, We Can ... turn Republican sour grapes, bungling, corruption and lying into a huge game-changing Democratic Party victory in November!
Si Se Puede!
~Ruff "
a teacher wrote on Jun 17, 2008 7:15 PM:
WOO HOO! Ruff is back! Where have you been, it's been ruff without around. "
matt@newspeak wrote on Jun 17, 2008 8:29 PM:
matt@newspeak wrote on Jun 17, 2008 8:33 PM:
ADark1 wrote on Jun 17, 2008 9:19 PM:
You spoke about Chicago politics..Lets see..Could this be due to the fact that the Chicago Trib, had to explain to Alan Keyes what lake Michigan was? yanno? That big expanse of water when he flew over to run against Obama although he wasn't even a resident of the state?
Could it be Keyes, who also claimed Jesus wouldn't vote for Obama got a smackdown, just before he lost by over 40 points?
Could this just be more of the same Republican drivel that the American Public has FINALLY wisened up to?
Could it be you're just a newly unemployed lobbyist who's ticked off, as Obama put you pretty much out of a job?
Could it be, you're just a ticked off company that has fallen on hard times because Obama introduced and help pass a bipartisan legislation to limit the abuse of NO BID federal contracts?
Could it be perhaps you owned a payday loans company and now your profit has significantly dropped because , Obama sponsored legislation to combat predatory payday loans, and he also was credited with lobbied the state ( Illinois) to more closely regulate some of the most egregious predatory lending practices.
Could it even be you are no longer employed by a company that became a VICTIM instead of a VICTIMIZER when,
In the U.S. Senate, Obama introduced the STOP FRAUD Act to increase penalties for mortgage fraud and provide more protections for low-income homebuyers, well before the current subprime crisis began.
Could it be that you are so used to being told what to do, how to think, who to vote for, who to smear, that the ONLY thing you know is Fear? "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 17, 2008 10:28 PM:
Here is some more of Obama's "extremist " voting record.
Obama passed legislation with Republican Senator Jim Talent to give gas stations a tax credit for installing E85 ethanol refueling pumps. The tax credit covers 30 percent of the costs of switching one or more traditional petroleum pumps to E85, which is an 85 percent ethanol/15 percent gasoline blend.
His first law was passed with Republican Tom Coburn, a measure to rebuild trust in government by allowing every American to go online and see how and where every dime of their tax dollars is spent.
As a member of the Veterans' Affairs Committee, Senator Obama has fought to help Illinois veterans get the disability pay they were promised, while working to prepare the VA for the return of the thousands of veterans who will need care after Iraq and Afghanistan.
Obama introduced the Patriot Employer Act of 2007 to provide a tax credit to companies that maintain or increase the number of full-time workers in America relative to those outside the US; maintain their corporate headquarters in America; pay decent wages; prepare workers for retirement; provide health insurance; and support employees who serve in the military. After a number of inmates on death row were found innocent, Senator Obama worked with law enforcement officials to require the videotaping of interrogations and confessions in all capital cases.
So Gunga,
Do you care to rethink your statement .."...Take away the Obama hype and the obscene love affair the media has with him and instead highlight his extremist voting record and we’ll all find out the emperor has no clothes. "
Sorry Gunga , seems to me he's a sharp dressed man!
Obama 08 "
plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Jun 17, 2008 10:44 PM:
The Cubs have a better chance of overcoming the goat curse and winning the World Series. (what? The Cubs are in first place in their division? Oh that's OK, it's not September yet. Lots of time for them to steal defeat from victory. But I love them anyway.) "
kevin wrote on Jun 18, 2008 8:03 AM:
ADark1 wrote on Jun 18, 2008 11:48 AM:
In regards to your comment , " adark1, thanks for confirming my observations that Obama does not have the experience or the qualifications to be President (or even Senator for that matter...) "
You are most quite welcome! I trust you will continue to entertain and educate the rest of the posters here and myself with such brilliant dialogue.
A thinker such as yourself stands second to none!
I can clearly see you are one of the "enlightened few for whom my comment holds true.
You can take a horse to water but CANNOT make him DRINK!...I raise my glass to you......Cheers, to you.... and the horse you rode in on! :) "
TrickleDown wrote on Jun 18, 2008 1:11 PM:
freeport56 wrote on Jun 18, 2008 1:14 PM:
Thank American Canyon for me. I am going to cancel our subscription to the Register and Chronicle. I would not use either as toilet paper. "
napaao wrote on Jun 18, 2008 3:51 PM:
steph wrote on Jun 18, 2008 5:05 PM:
ADark1 wrote on Jun 18, 2008 6:04 PM:
you stated in part "...my money says that Obama beats Kerry's mark by at least 5 percentage points. "
I'd venture a guess you're probably right..erm left...whatever! :)
Seriously , I see perhaps even by as high as 8 points!
For some folks who STILL aren't clear on Obamas record,
During the first - 8 - eight years of his elected service he sponsored over 820 bills. He introduced
233 regarding healthcare reform,
125 on poverty and public assistance,
112 crime fighting bills,
97 economic bills,
60 human rights and anti-discrimination bills,
21 ethics reform bills,
15 gun control,
6 veterans affairs and many others.
His FIRST year in the U.S. Senate, he AUTHORED 152 bills and co-sponsored another 427. These included
1. Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006 - became law,
2. Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act, - became law,
3. Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act, passed the Senate,
4. 2007 Government Ethics Bill, became law,
5. Protection Against Excessive Executive Compensation Bill, In committee, and many more.
In all, since entering the State/U.S. Senate, Senator Obama has written 890 bills and co-sponsored another 1096.
So again , Do NOT believe the hype! "
russ wrote on Jun 18, 2008 8:27 PM:
I wish I had the time to read your lengthy and frequent comments. I know that you have a different perspective than most of us. Is there any way I can get an executive summary?
I have devoted several hours recently to listening to his speeches of the last week. Barack Obama is a naive, uninformed, charismatic fool. His positions on judicial treatment of terrorists, energy/oil policy, taxes and social security are off the chart Marxist.
I will be forced to vote for McCain who wisely just flip-flopped on oil policy. "
steph wrote on Jun 18, 2008 8:48 PM:
ADark1 wrote on Jun 19, 2008 1:33 AM:
I do NOT think I have any different a perspective then the rest of us .
My summation on Obama .
Do I wish he was MORE conservative on certain issues? Yes!
Do I wish the USA had a candidate that was everything to everyone? Yes!
That WON'T happen. If it did, it could most likely be the anti - christ and according to biblical scholars , he will have people who find issue with his "politics".
What I find great about this "forum" is we can agree to disagree. We have MANY means of expression. I recall even you correcting me on something I posted..rather then disagree on a technicality, I conceded the point.
That is a binding fabric of IMHO of what makes this country great and the envy of the world.
That being said, the LAST 8 years or so, this country has gone in the wrong direction. This is evidenced NOT just by my support of an Obama Presidency, but that of the American Public as whole.
We are hungry for change, NOT the McSame.
Yes, McCain flip - flopped on energy policy..I fear however, he most likely will flip - flop again.
Your summation of Mr. ( soon to most likely be President) Obama is your right as an American and a individual. What you should also be aware of is this, Mr. Obama is ALSO a CONSTITUTIONAL SCHOLAR / Professor, of Law. I sincerely believe he can in fact Protect those freedoms given to us BY that same Constitution, as opposed to stripping away our freedoms based on lies, deceit and fear - mongering. "
freeport56 wrote on Jun 19, 2008 8:51 AM:
An impressive list of legislation. To bad over 90% of his IL bils died in committee or were vetoed. Just to point out one onb gun control. Obama authored a bill that would makit a CRIME for a law abiding citizen to defend his/her home with a handgun.
The Bill of Rights gives us the right of self defense not from the legislature, but a right we are born with.
Quantity does not always equal quality. "
ValleyBoi wrote on Jun 19, 2008 11:08 AM:
Sandra wrote on Jun 19, 2008 11:37 AM:
Sandra wrote on Jun 19, 2008 11:39 AM:
a teacher wrote on Jun 19, 2008 1:26 PM:
ADark1 wrote on Jun 19, 2008 2:19 PM:
What say you about this?:
John McCain voted against establishing a national holiday in honor of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Now he says his position has "evolved," yet he's continued to oppose key civil rights laws.
1 According to Bloomberg News, McCain is more hawkish than Bush on Iraq, Russia and China. Conservative columnist Pat Buchanan says McCain "will make Cheney look like Gandhi."
2 His reputation is built on his opposition to torture, but McCain voted against a bill to ban waterboarding, and then applauded President Bush for vetoing that ban.
3 McCain opposes a woman's right to choose. He said, "I do not support Roe versus Wade. It should be overturned."
4 The Children's Defense Fund rated McCain as the worst senator in Congress for children. He voted against the children's health care bill last year, then defended Bush's veto of the bill.
5 He's one of the richest people in a Senate filled with millionaires. The Associated Press reports he and his wife own at least eight homes! Yet McCain says the solution to the housing crisis is for people facing foreclosure to get a "second job" and skip their vacations.
6 Many of McCain's fellow Republican senators say he's too reckless to be commander in chief. One Republican senator said: "The thought of his being president sends a cold chill down my spine. He's erratic. He's hotheaded. He loses his temper and he worries me."
7 McCain talks a lot about taking on special interests, but his campaign manager and top advisers are actually lobbyists. The government watchdog group Public Citizen says McCain has 59 lobbyists raising money for his campaign, more than any of the other presidential candidates.
continued.. "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 19, 2008 2:30 PM:
McCain has sought closer ties to the extreme religious right in recent years. The pastor McCain calls his "spiritual guide," Rod Parsley, believes America's founding mission is to destroy Islam, which he calls a "false religion." McCain sought the political support of right-wing preacher John Hagee, who believes Hurricane Katrina was God's punishment for gay rights and called the Catholic Church "the Antichrist" and a "false cult."
He positions himself as pro-environment, but he scored a 0—yes, zero—from the League of Conservation Voters last year.
So uhmmm Sandra? I love debating with you..however, I truly believe the choice is clear. Pssst Its No McCain no cry...Works MUCH better for me! :) "
russ wrote on Jun 19, 2008 5:30 PM:
If McCain flips from Liberal to Conservative I am fine with it. I agree with steph, with Iraq and the battle with Islamic terror going our way at this time:
Energy will be the #1 issue this election year. The Democrats have found themselves trapped in a corner. Watch for the BIG FLIP-Flop from the Dems. They have no plan, they have no clue, they do not understand the issue! Obama will need to throw the uber-Greenies under the bus next.
Drill Here, Drill Now, Pay Less. And build a Nuke next door. "
common sense wrote on Jun 19, 2008 7:02 PM:
1. Iraq: We're winning. By a landslide. Democrats are cornered and in denial. The Surge worked, and McCain gets the credit. If Obama had had his way, there would be a lot more people dead. Pulling out means Pol Pot / Cambodia repeated in Iraq with likely millions killed. Strike one Obama.
2. Economy: Obama wants to raise taxes AND get more protectionist on trade during a "recession" (though I disagree that we are in one with these unemployment rates and low inflation)...we've tried that before. The Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act of 1930 caused the stock market crash of '29 (it was debated long before it was enacted) and the Great Depression. Compared to our adversaries, our government is too big...and Obama's tax increases won't make it smaller or help the economy. Strike two Obama.
3. Energy: Oil is not evil. We have more oil under our soil than the Saudis. But we are not allowed to touch it. Obama says no we can't have it. McCain says we should drill responsibly (except for ANWR) and build lots of nuclear reactors. Grand slam McCain. Strike three Obama. "
russ wrote on Jun 19, 2008 7:39 PM:
Just shows where priorities are. "
napabrat wrote on Jun 19, 2008 10:07 PM:
In fact, how many of those 5.5% are unemployed long term? Unemployment insurance is only for six months and then you are just SOL. Oh and PS I don't believe you're actually a counted statistic after six months, but hey, skew the numbers as we so often do. "
napabrat wrote on Jun 19, 2008 10:21 PM:
I'm so glad you feel the Iraq war is in our corner. Seems to me the war IS based on false pretenses and our casualties have been significant, not to mention loss of civilian life on their side. At what cost do we continue to entertain this ridiculous proposition? Do you really believe that this is why we have no further "terrorist" activities in the US? What about domestic terrorism? The UniBomber's, McVeigh's etc?
Seems to me that its a bit oversimplified to think that our war with Iraq is actually resulting in any change to terrorist activity. Before 911 when was the last activity we considered terrorist in the US? Do some chronological analysis and tell me you still believe that the war is effective and not just merely circumstantial. "
freeport56 wrote on Jun 20, 2008 7:35 AM:
How can we know what the terrorists are doing if we do not monitor incoming calls. We would be blind without that ability.
Lets set the record straight, Jimmy Carter setup thew FISA Court and the ability to monitor incoming phone calls to the U.S. Besides we have a law in the U.S. allowing the government to inspect anything that enters this country. As a nation weshould have that right. Besides, the President traded for it by giving the Dems more money for their precious social programs "
russ wrote on Jun 20, 2008 8:41 AM:
Re-read my comments current and past. I am on your side. Perhaps I am too subtle in ridiculing the liberals.
Obama stated this week that the US judicial system had done a good job in prosecuting the 1993 World Trade terrorists. How naive! Bin Laden was indicted in 1998, terrorist attacks against us throughout the 1990's until 2001. Where are the arrests from those acts of terror?
Onlt one House Democrat has signed on to support increase oil production. Most Congress Democrats are trying to tell the oil companies where to drill. How naive and political. Many Dems want to nationalize America's oil industry, how stupid and Marxist.
Watch the cornered House Dems and watch for th BIG FLIP-Flop on oil coming soon. "
Sandra wrote on Jun 20, 2008 10:00 AM:
kevin wrote on Jun 20, 2008 10:40 AM:
a teacher wrote on Jun 20, 2008 11:01 AM:
I would be careful declaring victory, there are lot's of reasons the violence could be down. It could be that Sadr is lying low. It could be that everyone wants the Americans out so badly that they are keeping cool.
Even if it's working, SO?
First off, it should have been done 4 years ago, but the Administration in an effort to keep this a quick, easy, cheap war, refused to face the facts.
Secondly, there are two parts to this, the Americans quell the violence and the Iraqis Part two is sadly lacking. The only thing I see that may pull them together is that they are so outraged at Mr. Bush's attempts to force an "agreement" where US Forces basically run all over the country, with no say from the Iraqi's, that they may unite just to show us the door. Nice legacy.
Finally. It doesn't matter anyway. We have essentially spent six years and a trillion or so dollars (more to come) to wreck a country.
Depending on whose figures you want to believe, civilian casualties are approaching or surpassing Saddam's excesses (between 65,000 to 1 million).
Iraqis once had a fairly western, secular, modern society for the region. Sunnis and Shiites and Kurds did live in relative peace together. Is that true now?
Are Women better off?
Iraq's infrastructure has been wrecked. Iraq's army is nearly non existant. It's oil infrastructure is severly damages. It's economy is shattered.
Even if the surge works, how is Iraq a success?
Talk about denial. "
a teacher wrote on Jun 20, 2008 11:07 AM:
Vote for McBush - four more years!
Maybe he can start yet ANOTHER war. I think there is oil in the Falklands. Let's liberate them from British Despotism and then we can fight the Brits AND the Argentians. "
a teacher wrote on Jun 20, 2008 11:12 AM:
So Russ, you don't mind when politicians pander and tap dance, as long as it's for you.
Hipocracy in action. "
a teacher wrote on Jun 20, 2008 11:24 AM:
First of all, opposition to off shore drilling is bipartisan. Bush's Father signed the bill banning it. Bush's conservative brother and Florida's governor, opposes it. California's Republican Governor opposes it. It's a wildly unpopular idea with the populations of Florida and Califrnia.
Secondly, it will do nothing to lower gas prices in the near future and when and if it happens, the impact will be minuscule. It will take years to get this oil on the market.
And, what makes anyone think that the oil will go here? Oh, yeah, the oil companies will make LESS money to sell to Americans. And you guys call liberals naive.
The only people who will be benefiting from this oil are the stockholders of big oil. I plan to buy stock, that's the only way I'll save gas money (they'll probably find a way to screu me out of that) "
kevin wrote on Jun 20, 2008 5:45 PM:
Just today, Iraq signed contracts with major oil companies to improve and increase their oil infrastructure... "
russ wrote on Jun 20, 2008 6:35 PM:
There was plenty of oil and gas, thanks to Reagan and Bush.
Perhaps things have changed? Maybe we need to find more places to drill?
Drive less, Drill More, Pay Less. It's a no-brainer "
napabrat wrote on Jun 20, 2008 8:35 PM:
russ wrote on Jun 20, 2008 9:16 PM:
Yep, it is that simple. Drive less (reduce demand), drill more (increase supply).
If the US commits to 5 million barrels per day more secure supply, 10 years from now, watch the price go down tomorrow!!!
A high percentage of today's oil price is based on insecurity of supply.
BarackO is an oil supply, neophyte fool!
Watch for the big liberal flip-flop soon.
Nationalize oil and gas production as some Democrats advocate? Dead politicians walking. "
a teacher wrote on Jun 21, 2008 1:53 AM:
Russ: I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure that tomorrow's oil price isn't based on events that may happen five years down the road.
You are right, "Drill More, Pay Less.". My question is, how much less. According to many energy experts, not much. "
Rocketman wrote on Jun 21, 2008 6:44 AM:
Sandra wrote on Jun 21, 2008 7:15 AM:
kevin wrote on Jun 21, 2008 9:20 AM:
Well, one thing I CAN guarantee is that Obama's "plan" to increase taxes on oil companies will definitely not reduce the price of oil or gas one penny.
Every person who uses an automobile and is cursing $5 gas is a NIMBY hypocrite if they don't support drilling off the coast... "
NVGal wrote on Jun 21, 2008 11:34 AM:
I think I will just stay home and not vote. I am beginning to think it is just a waste of time. "
NVGal wrote on Jun 21, 2008 11:40 AM:
steph wrote on Jun 21, 2008 1:52 PM:
I thought it was interesting that when McCain came out with a proposal to build nuclear power plants (45 by 2030) maybe Obama was caught a bit flat-footed? He pulled out one of his Harvard words and replied that nuclear energy is not a "panacea."
Wow.
Still, I'll take those 45 power plants, and that's enough talk about increasing my taxes, thank you very much.
Well, on the other hand, Obama's new advertisement has my American chest swelling with pride. He knows how to talk to a lady. "Love of country...working hard without making excuses...." Huh-WOW! I can't help but like the guy.
Am I swooning? I think I might be swooning!
From high up on my fence,
Love, Steph "
russ wrote on Jun 21, 2008 2:58 PM:
The greater the uncertainty that the supply will be there in the future, the higher the price for that future today.
Liberals do not understand that, they just curse about GHWBush being in bed with the Saudi's and GWBush's buddies in the oil business. "
NVGal wrote on Jun 21, 2008 3:45 PM:
Here is another snippet…
Carlsbad, CA -- Tonight at the "All Things Digital" conference sponsored by the Wall Street Journal, Rupert Murdoch -- Chairman of News Corp, new WSJ owner, and longtime torchbearer for conservative politics -- said this about Barack Obama: "He is a rock star. It's fantastic" "I love what he is saying about education." "I don't think he will win Florida.....but he will win in Ohio and the election". "I am anxious to meet him." "I want to see if he will walk the walk." "
a teacher wrote on Jun 21, 2008 3:46 PM:
BTW-If Mr. Bush believes that we have to drill now to alleviate, why isn't he also demanding higher CAFE standards? Why doesn't he also demand that the oil companies also develope the 39 million acres of private land that they hold?
I would submit that those who are demanding drilling in these places but insist on buying gas guzzlers are also hypocrites. "
steph wrote on Jun 21, 2008 6:05 PM:
I went searching for commentary on why Murdoch would back Obama, and the www is rife with rumors and conjecture.
Fascinating!
Some feel he is manipulating the left, some feel he wants to hedge his bets and get in good with the sure winner (like when he backed Tony Blair), some feel he thinks his family is influencing him, some say that 4 years of Obama would be good for the right, and on and on. Fascinating! "
NVGal wrote on Jun 21, 2008 7:03 PM:
NVGal wrote on Jun 21, 2008 7:04 PM:
kevin wrote on Jun 21, 2008 10:24 PM:
russ wrote on Jun 21, 2008 10:46 PM:
In June, Obama says, "Public financing of presidential elections is broken". Gimme the money.
Why? Not the politics of change, the politics of big money. Just another slimy, common, big money, same as usual, Daley Chicago pol. Time for change, dump old time pols like Obama. "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 22, 2008 4:18 AM:
You know in your heart the reversal was necessary to compete with RNC money that was left over after all the attack ads and dirty tricks via swiftboating to come!...You're just upset because McCain just got "Bamma'd! ( Means out finessed, outsmarted and its gonna cost more money) I am really wondering why its such a double standard with you "Republicans when all that's being done is what we;ve learned from you! "
kevin wrote on Jun 22, 2008 9:57 AM:
plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Jun 22, 2008 11:44 AM:
This may sound terrible to the Republicans here, but I think it would be a good thing in the long run for Obama to win. If he has a Pelosi leftist Congress he will do so much damage the GOP will have to get its act together and provide real opposition, or a third party made up of real conservatives and/or libertarians could emerge.
As it stands now if McCain wins, the GOP will go on with business as usual. I'm not saying Bush III but big government/big brother/big spending agenda will continue, and the result will be that the leftists will get stronger. McCain is probably a one term president anyway, and then we will have at least two terms of a socialist president - Obama or Hillary or worse (can't imagine worse, but it could happen).
So I say let Obama win. Let him raise taxes and crush the economy, let him take away guns, let him bring ruination with socialist health care, let him make the US subservient to the UN, and let him cut and run from responsibility - our allies will like us less and our enemies will be more courageous and contemptuous of the spineless US. Then, if the voters don't demand some real change and they stick with Obama for a second term, we are well and truly flushed down the tubes and deserve whatever we get.
Sorry, but that's what we get for letting the GOP lose its principles. We just don't need two Democrat parties. "
a teacher wrote on Jun 22, 2008 1:26 PM:
That's what we thought about Bush... "
kevin wrote on Jun 22, 2008 1:50 PM:
So we have to agree to disagree on this. I think it absolutely necessary that a conservative, or at least a Republican, be at the helm regardless. We live in dangerous times and don't have the time to be subjegated to second Jimmy Carter term.... "
russ wrote on Jun 22, 2008 3:37 PM:
I wish you were right about the Republican money. There is not much.
And there is little enthusiasm for McCain.
The big political money is all Democrat and BarackO knows he can raise more money than he needs and he has already begun the slime slinging at McCain. "
Sandra wrote on Jun 23, 2008 8:10 AM:
freeport56 wrote on Jun 24, 2008 10:29 AM:
Unfortunately the Democrats know nothing of economics. An Obama victory along with their tax increases would crush our already faltering economy. If they would only understand that by lowering income taxes, axing the Death Tax, and lowering Capital gains would kick start the economy into over drive. we would be so prosperous. Not to mention they would see record revenue increases to their budget.
But, alas they do not understand. They think by raising taxes they can pump up earmarks and pay for their pet social programs. The great Social Engineering experiment has already started in California. Americans work best and the economy works best when government stays the hell out of it. Government was designed by our framers to be sluggish and not "all doing". The government is not the best source to tell us the best way to live. Our society is becoming more addicted to what government can do for them. "Ask not what your Country (Government) can do for you, but what can you do for your Country". "
freeport56 wrote on Jun 24, 2008 10:35 AM:
Honor and integrety are the oaths these men took and for all accounts stand by. "
Hear Ye wrote on Jun 24, 2008 1:36 PM:
You can't be serious. I didn't know there was anyone left who believed the swiftboating of John Kerry. All the evidence that has come out debunking their stories completely missed you? I didn't think he would make a particularly great President however your statements are uninformed and insulting to people who serve our country. "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 24, 2008 2:28 PM:
kevin stated" ateacher; if I chose to drive a gas guzzling vehicle and I demand the goverment allow oil companies the access to drill for the oil needed to provide for the fuel for said vehicle, that does NOT make me a hypocrite. It may make me an arrogant SOB, but not a hypocrite... " For THAT! I say I nominate him for the arrogant SOB award..Its ok kev I have a gas guzzler as well...OMG! we Agree! ( marks date on the calendar)
Obama's halo may be getting a lil tarnished but his horns are holding it just fine!
Sandra?
Ermmm yup! I have NO IDEA what he was thinking either! n OMG! I've agreed with Sandra as well.. Two in one day?
I think I need a drink! "
a teacher wrote on Jun 24, 2008 2:40 PM:
I could rebut you point for point, but that is really a pointless endeavor. Rather let me say that your economics view is not shared by all economists or Americans. Even if some of them are valid, they are not without problems, ie the Estate Tax's purpose is to prevent the establishment of an aristocracy through accumulated inherited wealth, which the founding fathers thought would be a bad idea for the country.
Also, your charge about about "They think by raising taxes they can pump up earmarks and pay for their pet social programs", also rings true of the republicans (what would you call the attempt to create a democratic country in the Persian Gulf, I'd call it social engineering). The difference is that at least the Democrats are responsible enough to say we can't spend money we don't have. Apparently the Republicans believe that we can spend now and pay at some future date.
Personally I believe that both parties are pretty irresponsible with my tax dollars. Both bend economic rules to suit their agenda and either hope they get lucky, no one will notice or they can blame the other side.
I also think that if anyone wants to have a serious conversation about the problems we face, we have to quit the blame game and lose the rhetoric. "
russ wrote on Jun 24, 2008 8:28 PM:
I just watched an interview of Nancy Pelosi. The Dems are terrified over the oil/gas issue. They know they are on the wrong side of the issue. Nancy was shuckin' and jivin' and shakin'.
BarackO says, paraphrase,
-high hydrocarbon fuel prices are good. It will force the folks to conserve.
-drilling and more oil production is not necessary to solve the energy problem (?).
-conservation and "alternative fuels" are the solution. Smart cars fueled with bacon fat.
-increase taxes on the oil companies. They are too profitable.
-nukes must be restricted.
-the US uses too much energy compared to the rest of the world. Lower your standard of living.
-if the oil companies drill, they must drill where we tell them. (even if there is no oil there). Lib Dems know all about oil.
The Liberal Dems are on the wrong side of the energy issue and they know it. Watch for the BIG FLIP-FLOP. It is coming....soon. Nancy was looking a bit slippery on energy tonight. "
kevin wrote on Jun 24, 2008 9:03 PM:
a teacher wrote on Jun 24, 2008 10:00 PM:
Those wild and crazy liberals, Andrew Carnegie, Teddy Roosevelt, Winston Churchill, Warren Buffet (the richest man in the world) and Bill Gates (the second richest man in the world) all advocated or currently advocate the Estate Tax. "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 24, 2008 10:41 PM:
(Metaphorically speaking )
Watch out they are gonna bring a gun!
If the Dems flip - flop, what's the big deal? BOTH sides do it often over and over again. "
Sandra wrote on Jun 25, 2008 7:37 AM:
Ermmm yup! I have NO IDEA what he was thinking either!" I worry that I know what he WAS thinking. What scares me about this man isn't what he says, but what he doesn't say. From my observations of him, the whole presidental seal thing does seem to be quite a slip up, possibly revealing more of what is behind this man's motivation, than what his actual words say (which really isn't much). There is an arrogance to this that rankles me. I worry that he has an agenda that he is hiding and if elected, only then it will be revealed. I look at the people he has associated with, and when I add the arrogance of redesigning the presidential seal....well it does not promote any confidence in me that this is the man I want running our country. "
Common Sense wrote on Jun 25, 2008 10:16 AM:
• In effect, he would legislate a 60 percent tax bracket for upper-income Americans, killing all initiative and innovation. He'd raise the top bracket to 40 percent. He'd apply FICA taxes to all income, not just that under $100,000 as at present. So add 40 percent plus FICA's 12.5 percent plus Medicare's 2 percent plus state and local taxes averaging, after deduction, at 5-6 percent, and you have a 60 percent bracket.
• He would double the capital gains tax, saddling the 50 percent of Americans who own stock with dramatically higher taxes.
• He'd double the dividend tax, hitting elderly coupon-clippers now retired and depending on fixed incomes.
• He wants to cover 12 million illegal immigrants with federally subsidized health insurance, dramatically driving up costs and forcing federal rationing of healthcare. As in the U.K. and Canada, you will not be permitted certain medical procedures if the bureaucrats decide you are not worth it.
• He proposes requiring Homeland Security operatives to notify terror suspects that they are under investigation within seven days of starting the investigation.
• He says that unless they can establish that there is "probable cause to believe that a certain individual is linked to a specific terrorist group," Homeland Security cannot seize his documents and search his business. The current standard is only that the search be "relevant" to a terror investigation.
• He does not oppose $5-per-gallon gasoline but only says that he wishes there had been a more "gradual adjustment" to the higher prices. "
Hear Ye wrote on Jun 25, 2008 12:53 PM:
Nice try but those aren't Obama proposals. You simply cut and pasted that from an anti-obama column. Most of that is inaccurate and what isn't innacurate is just completely made up. "
freeport56 wrote on Jun 25, 2008 4:25 PM:
I would never dishonor the brave men and women of the military. On the contrary, I honor their patriotism and courage, but not John Kerry's ego. "
freeport56 wrote on Jun 25, 2008 4:38 PM:
Refute this; the last two Democratic Governors of California ( I wqill include Arnold) have stuck us with a $50 Billion debt. Both Democratic houses of our legislature's only and best solutions is too raise taxes and start the dialog about repealling Prop 13. As a native CA boy growing up in Socal in the 60's. I know what my parents were paying in prop taxes at a rate of 15%. Those rates, SoCal housing was more expensive in the 60's than NorCal, were crushing families. They would crush families today. Every election in the bay area has several propositions changing the vote required to raise taxes and put a further burden on the populace. I don't and will not buy it.
Californian s scraming at Arnold's cuts. He has to make them. Because the legislature cannot and will not stop spending. Business leaves California because it is so unfriendly and burdensome to business.
We had the best school system in the nation at one time, not anymore. "
freeport56 wrote on Jun 25, 2008 5:41 PM:
go to you tube and search Barack Obama Economic Moron and watch the video of the Las Vegas where Charlie Gibson asks about the Capital gains tax.
Also look for his comments from CNN's coverage on oil drilling and his future electric car solution. Funny, no mention of the energy source that will supply that electricity. Don't forget to make note of the fake presidential seal on the podium.
By the way go to the AP web site and look up the legislation that Hilary and Barack signed March 14,2008 that would have raised income taxes on those making $31,850 to the rate of 50%. "
freeport56 wrote on Jun 25, 2008 5:54 PM:
It is very enlightening. "
freeport56 wrote on Jun 25, 2008 5:57 PM:
Vote description: Kyl Amdt. No. 4348; To provide certainty to taxpayers by extending expiring tax provisions such as the R&D Tax Credit that helps US companies innovate, combat pay exclusion for our soldiers in the field, the education deduction to make colleges more affordable and the alternative energy incentives to make the environment cleaner through the end of 2009.
he voted against it! "
freeport56 wrote on Jun 25, 2008 6:00 PM:
Obama voted against this one too!
Vote description: Motion to Waive C.B.A. DeMint Amdt. No. 4340; To create a point of order against bills that would raise gasoline prices.
yes, his legislative history matters! "
common sense wrote on Jun 25, 2008 6:33 PM:
-Ummm, yes they are. "
Hear Ye wrote on Jun 25, 2008 7:02 PM:
It is very enlightning indeed. I was shocked to see just how little McCain shows up to cast a vote at all.
Common Sense-
Could you point me in a direction where I can find Obamas proposals you pointed out? "
a teacher wrote on Jun 25, 2008 11:43 PM:
Sure. Arnold is a republican and Gray Dvis might not have been the best governor, but he had help making a mess in the form of Eron like companies gaming the energy market. "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 26, 2008 4:20 AM:
freeport56 wrote on Jun 26, 2008 8:23 AM:
for the record it was the Los Angeles Municipal Power District that charged the highest prices and the pinheads in the legislature approved it.
By the way, you go Supreme Court. Sustaining my creator's endowment of the 2nd Amendment. What a great day for America.
I can hear the Libbies screaming now. Pelosi may need more Botox! "
a teacher wrote on Jun 26, 2008 12:27 PM:
Your creator's endowment? That's a little over the top. I'd like to see the biblical verse that gives people the right to bear arms.
BTW I support the 2nd amendment. I don't own a gun, but I appreciate the right to get one should I need one (to protect myself from a right wing fascist gov't, for instance). "
napabrat wrote on Jun 26, 2008 3:15 PM:
Oh puhlease! I think if you're honest you'll admit that it won't really impact prices significantly. The major oil companies are to engrained in severe profit taking from their wares. They won't even miss a beat.
Again I say too simplisitic. Supply and demand of course is a basic economic principal, but what about corporate greed? "
Hear Ye wrote on Jun 26, 2008 4:14 PM:
Todays ruling seemed relatively ok to me. Even Pelosi seemed alright with it. The ruling still allowed some very basic and necessary restrictions. No "libbies" are screaming at least not that I've heard.
Heck I'll be at the gun range this weekend. I support the 2nd Amendment just not in the creepy NRA kinda way. "
kevin wrote on Jun 26, 2008 7:33 PM:
a teacher wrote on Jun 26, 2008 11:18 PM:
Those are activist judges... "
freeport56 wrote on Jun 27, 2008 7:26 AM:
In order to understand the "Endowment" you are questioning, please read the second paragraph of the Declaration Of Independence.
The liibie screaming I refer to are those calling the Supreme Court "activist judges". That upholding a Right we are born with I do not consider activist. Changing the will of the people, I consider activist.
Hear ye-
Everything the NRA stands came out in yesterdays ruling. They upheld your right to own a firearm. Jefferson once said,to paraphrase " a man who owns a gun is a citiizen, a man who does not is subject". It is amazing how the left wants to pick and choose our rights for us. Besides the NRA, the only other organization protecting your rights, and it's a jok, is the ACLU. We can only keep what we fight for. "
freeport56 wrote on Jun 27, 2008 7:31 AM:
I guess it has been a while since you discussed the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution in class. Civics and citizenship education are long gone from the schools, that is a sad thing to see.
the most current FBI statistics show a major drop in violent crime from 6/2006 to 6/2207. At the same time gun sales are at an all time high. Interesting! "
a teacher wrote on Jun 27, 2008 11:53 AM:
I have been shot at twice and have stared down the barrel of a gun more times than I care to remember. At none of those times would my possession of a fire arm have resulted in anything other than my untimely death.
That is not to say that I am anti gun. As a younger person I discovered that I am not a bad shot. I support the right to bear arms. I would consider owning a gun, but I have kids in the house, so I don't have one.
I believe, however, that local gov't should have the right to impose reasonable restrictions on gun ownership. You can make a more persuasive argument that gun ownership (particularly handguns) causes more deaths by firearms than the other way around.
The NRA has a far too extreme view of gun ownership - they take no responsibility for the consequences of their positions. "
a teacher wrote on Jun 27, 2008 11:54 AM:
freeport56 wrote on Jun 27, 2008 12:53 PM:
" Freeport: I don't believe in being endowed with rights. The only rights a person has are what we fight for or agree to."
for that statement I feel sorry for you. I do not trust other to give rights to me as too many people today are trying to remove them. I am glad the framers had enough insight to realize that man carries with these freedoms.
I have stared dwon the barrel of a pump action shotgun while being robbed. I know how it feels. I also know that these were bad guys and law abiding people do not rob at gun point.While gun violence is a horrible thing you and the rest of us have been played by the politicians. the Clinton administration never filed any federal firearms charges against anyone. It was a ploy to show how bad guns are. John Lott Jr. at the U. of Chicago set out to debunk the "armed citizen, less crime theory". He actually proved the theory. Criminals by definition will not follow the law. If we enforce the thousands of laws already on the books, stop punishing the law abiding citizen and are harsher on criminals we would see better results. S.F. has the worst case record for solving violent crime and is fairly liberal to their approach to law enforcement, this too must change. Police are only after the facy responders, not savers. "
a teacher wrote on Jun 27, 2008 2:10 PM:
If tomorrow an asteroid crashes into the planet and wipes out all life, my "endowed right" to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness will have been canceled by mother nature.
I refuse to believe that I have rights given to me by the invisible man in the sky. Rather I'll take the adage, "God helps those who help themselves". The rights I have are the ones I fight for. "
freeport56 wrote on Jun 27, 2008 9:27 PM:
As for the asteroid. it is not "if", but when. "
freeport56 wrote on Jun 27, 2008 9:46 PM:
You see i believe in all these. I may be an altruist, but these are the foundations from which this coutry was built. I hope you have travel to many different places and experienced their cultures and laws. Freedom is not enjoyed by everyone, we are lucky we have what we have. every day that goes by these freedoms are tested. We are getting ever so close to losing them.
I cannot imagine what life would be like if only criminals and cops had guns. It would be kaos with violent at the will of the criminal. The "fight" you talk about was won in a small way on Thursday. Well educated men stood before 9 judges and discussed in detail, read the orals, 200 years and beyond of history, our history. Like it or not our "Rights" were born out of the most impoortant philosophical thinking during man's time on this planet. I am proud of our history. I am proud of the men thast created this country, founded on Religous freedom with no monarchy. I could not live well without these freedoms. I would not want to. yeah, I may be bitter clinging to my gun and my religon. i cling to hang on, my gun to defend in what i believe. I have never felt entitled, just lucky! "
Hear Ye wrote on Jun 27, 2008 10:02 PM:
Everything you said is fine with me in regards to your beliefs about our rights/freedoms.
Just don't forget that when it's an issue you don't support. You can't just believe in that when it works in your favor. "
kevin wrote on Jun 28, 2008 10:02 AM:
" Unlike the conservatives whining about California's Supreme Court decision about Gay Marriage or the Supreme Court's most recent ruling on GITMO.
Those are activist judges... "
I am glad to see you finally "get it", ateacher!
Regarding Rights verses entitlements, I my opinion that is at the heart of the problem in this country today. People do not understand the diffences and the meanings, and some that do deliberately misconstrue them for political reasons. It is a very serious issue that goes to the core of our identity as a Nation. Our Rights (as based on our country's founding ideology) come from God and are expressed in the Declaration of Independence and are enumerated in the Bill of Rights. This is a profound change from mankind's historical idea of governance which ateacher expresses: a person only has the rights he can obtain from his government through his own efforts. This is the same idea that has plagued mankind throughtout history, that our rights come from the government and can therefor be limited by the government. Those are not Rights, those are entitlements which are obtained through social contract with the State: things like health care, housing, even food and water.
I would hope that even "a math teacher" would be able to work these ideals into their lesson plan and educate students. If not, it is a sad statement on our education system.
(Too bad one of our NVR offical bloggers wouldn't do a whole article on this topic.) "
a teacher wrote on Jun 28, 2008 2:42 PM:
You say that the source of these rights is God. Whose God? Yours? What if I don't have the same God, or any God? What if you're reading your God's will wrong? What about free will?
You want rights, you fight for them. You want gun rights, well then you have to stay vigilant aginst those who would take them. That's what the NRA does. You want 1st amendment rights? Then fight when they are being infringed on. That's what the ACLU does.
Anyone waiting for the gov't to give them rights is a fool. I'm no fool. "
ADark1 wrote on Jun 28, 2008 11:06 PM:
Sorry couldn't resist..besides, you're talking to kevin! :) "
Sandra wrote on Jun 29, 2008 8:58 AM:
freeport56 wrote on Jun 29, 2008 9:22 AM:
I see the error in your equation. Have a brother with 3 physics degrees and a math degree helped me see it. You assume that we have to take from the government. But you are failing to see that when OUR government was formed thesae brillant men GAVE us these rights. They saw that the very nature of man included these. to use your own words 38 men and one wittness "agreed" that these were our natural rights.
Hear ye- you are right too, I must relent and debate when when we are are on two sides of a belief. That is the beauty of this forum. I hold no animosity against anyone here. On the contrary i have high regard for those that speak up and offer different viewpoints. It educating to learn the thought processes of others. The greatness of our systems is the ability top debate.
I think a BBQ with all of us would be great! "
a teacher wrote on Jun 29, 2008 11:41 AM:
The Taliban are also very religious.
The Nazis used religious arguments to exterminate the Jews of Europe.
Afrikaners used religion to justify Apartied. The Bible was used to justify Slavery.
I have little faith in how people interpret the mind of God to trust them to use "God's word" as a basis for anything to do with my life. I prefer to think that the fate of Mankind is in it's own hands. It's up to us to make a world that works. "
Sandra wrote on Jun 30, 2008 8:51 AM:
a teacher wrote on Jun 30, 2008 10:24 AM:
Sandra wrote on Jun 30, 2008 11:58 AM:
a teacher wrote on Jun 30, 2008 1:38 PM:
But in ourselves..." "
napabrat wrote on Jun 30, 2008 8:16 PM:
If you believe in God then you could state that life is a God given right, but truthfully life is given to you by your parents. Divine intervention is only part of the equation for some.
Liberty is in my opinion not a God given right, because the term liberty has a definite legalistic connotation. Liberty can often be equated with freedom and the opposite of freedom is incarceration (not just as a definition from the penal codes.)
Pursuit of happiness is by far the most personal of all three "rights". The term happiness is very, very subjective and I don't venture even "God" would place any universal definition of happiness for all of us. Perhaps the only exception I can think of from a religious perspective would be that if you follow God's will according to the scriptures your life will be provided for (it doesn't say you will be happy.).
I am not trying to state the religious perspective. I am merely saying that these three terms "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" each have a distinct origin and it seems to me that if these were truly God given rights, why would our Founding Fathers have felt the need to address them in our Declaration of Independence? God given rights would be inevitable and enduring.uem
To agree with ADark1 I do believe that free will is a God given right. "
River70 wrote on Jun 30, 2008 9:55 PM:
" a teacher-
Unfortunately the Democrats know nothing of economics. An Obama victory along with their tax increases would crush our already faltering economy. If they would only understand that by lowering income taxes, axing the Death Tax, and lowering Capital gains would kick start the economy into over drive. we would be so prosperous. Not to mention they would see record revenue increases to their budget.
My goodness what a broad statement. Are you kidding ?.The irresponsible spending by this administration is what has brought on this economic disaster. You are just repeating some ( do you listen to Fox) republican bullet points. "
Sandra wrote on Jul 1, 2008 8:14 AM:
a teacher wrote on Jul 1, 2008 9:38 AM:
napabrat wrote on Jul 1, 2008 10:56 AM:
Try not to faint but I think we almost agree on one premise:
I said: "God given rights would be inevitable and enduring,"
You said: "..., and it was this God who our founding fathers claimed granted these unalienable rights to the people of this planet."
The only difference is that if you factor in man's free will, no matter what you're given you have the ability to make or break situations by the choices we make. Even the "rights" our Founding Fathers gave us are constantly being challenged and modified by the will of the people and the politicians.
And no Sandra I don't have an issue with "life, liberty and the PURSUIT of happiness." Do you? "
Sandra wrote on Jul 1, 2008 11:22 AM:
kevin wrote on Jul 1, 2008 11:35 AM:
a teacher wrote on Jul 1, 2008 1:44 PM:
Really. So when the state executes a person, they take away a God given right. When it imprisons someone, same thing.
Indentured servitude is cool with the Bible. Wouldn't that be a God given right? Same for slavery.
The phrase "God given" is a rhetorical flourish. Those rights were determined by men. They didn't think that women had those rights and they certainly didn't think that Blacks or Indians had those rights. It seems to me that "God given" is subject to interpretation and thus not really God given. "
cab e-girl wrote on Jul 1, 2008 2:37 PM:
1. Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-NY)
2. Rep. John Conyers (D-MI)
3. Senator Larry Craig (R-ID)
4. Senator Diane Feinstein (D-CA)
5. Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani (R-NY)
6. Governor Mike Huckabee (R-AR)
7. I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby
8. Senator Barack Obama (D-IL)
9. Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA)
10. Senator Harry Reid (D-NV)
If you look at their web-sites it explains why they are on the list.
Looks like the dems have chosen wisely again. "
a teacher wrote on Jul 1, 2008 4:34 PM:
However the kicker for me is Scooter Libby. It's not that he is on the list (even though he is not a politician), it's the fact that they let his bosses off the hook. He lied in the investigation of his boss D**k Cheney (to protect him?) and Mr. Bush pardoned him. If judicial Watch feel that Libby's behavior deserves him a place on the list, why not his boss who pardoned him.
Why isn't McCain on the list (the Keating Five)?
More innuendo. If you don't like Obama for his policies, his politics, his lack of experience, fine with me. But this is weak. "
Hear Ye wrote on Jul 1, 2008 6:50 PM:
a teacher wrote on Jul 1, 2008 7:43 PM:
cab e-girl wrote on Jul 1, 2008 11:50 PM:
Sandra wrote on Jul 2, 2008 7:43 AM:
Hear Ye wrote on Jul 2, 2008 8:23 AM:
bottom line is that Judicial Watch claims to be Conservative yet Non-partisan and is funded by Conservatives. Excuse me for being skeptical based on that and their poor list. "
cab e-girl wrote on Jul 2, 2008 9:08 AM:
Hear Ye wrote on Jul 2, 2008 3:16 PM:
Sandra wrote on Jul 3, 2008 10:32 AM:
NVR-Dan Ross wrote on Jul 3, 2008 11:29 AM:
This rather antiquated system we use here caused the forum to archive, and once it does, we can't make it go 'live,' again without wiping out all the comments.
We are building a large Election Center for the presidential and local races in November, and when that comes out, we will be linking back to this forum to start things off.
--Dan "
Webster9 wrote on Aug 4, 2008 9:39 PM:
The Republicans gave us soaring gasoline prices, soaring food prices, and an endless senseless war.
Give yourself the RONALD REAGAN CHALLENGE.
Are you better off now than you were 8 years ago ? "