Immigration march Thursday evening in Napa

Home » News » Local

Thursday, May 01, 2008

Comment

By Register Online Staff

Scores march in St. Helena for immigration reform, April 2007

A call to action for local immigration reform, May 2007

Spirited crowd marches in Napa for immigrant rights, October 2007

Napa employers wary of federal crackdown on undocumented workers, August 2007

Dozens of protesters will take to the streets Thursday night in the name of immigration reform in what’s being called a march for peace, faith, reflection and immigrant rights.

The march is the latest in a series of demonstrations in support of a fair and comprehensive immigration reform, which began in Napa in the summer of 2006. One bill in particular, HR 4437, caused a firestorm in Latino communities throughout the states and propelled many Latinos to protest laws that they saw as draconian.

Organizers Latinos Unidos del Valle de Napa y Solano encourage anyone wishing to march to wear white and wield American flags. The march begins at St. John the Baptist Catholic church on Napa Street at 5 p.m., and will skirt through Downtown Napa, ending at Fuller Park, where a candlelight vigil will take place and community leaders will address the crowd.

123 comment(s)

JustMy$.02 wrote on Apr 30, 2008 11:16 AM:

" Honestly, do we need remform or do we need to just act on the laws and regulations we already have in place?

Legal immigrants are a vital part to this region of the nation for sure, if not the whole country. But we cannot ignore the HUGE problems that ILLEGAL immigration presents.

And Im sorry but amnisty is not the answer. If we have room in this nation to just give immediate citizenship to any ILLEGAL immigrant, then we should honestly depart all those that got here completely disregarding our laws and regulations and give citizenship to those on the waiting lists around the world that are trying to get to this country legally, showing respect for our laws and regulations.

Just my $.02 "

hudds5 wrote on Apr 30, 2008 11:35 AM:

" All U.S. citzens have the right to protest and voice there concerns in America...they are here legally right? In the spirit of “Fiesta de Napa”, we should show our support. "

kevin wrote on Apr 30, 2008 11:49 AM:

" LOL. I love that this c 3 501 organization is classified as "Alcohol, Drug and Substance Abuse, Dependency Prevention and Treatment". Somehow seems appropriate... "

vonhelga wrote on Apr 30, 2008 12:11 PM:

" I agree with you justmy$.02. This is America where we do have laws for a reason and for you hudds. leagal immagrants are one thing. the illeagal population is a whole different one. "

Sickothis wrote on Apr 30, 2008 12:33 PM:

" Kev - what's a c 3 501 organization? "

laloquera wrote on Apr 30, 2008 12:41 PM:

" I'm a latino that was born and have lived in this beautiful valley all my life, my family has lived here for over 40 yrs. I would just like to ask for the participants of this march to please make this a peaceful march. Let's show the valley that not all imigrants (legal or illegal) are "bad". Let's show them that we can be part of the solution and not the problem. "

Dwayne wrote on Apr 30, 2008 12:50 PM:

" laloquera: If you're here legally, then why are you marching...??? Is there a point...??? "

sam wrote on Apr 30, 2008 1:03 PM:

" 501 C 3, or a C 3 501 as Kevin calls it, is a NON-PROFIT organization. "

mypoint wrote on Apr 30, 2008 1:12 PM:

" I wonder if there are any counter immigration reform marches planned. This is something that would interest me. "

musikluvr wrote on Apr 30, 2008 1:13 PM:

" If they did this in Mexico the federales would not allow it. America is a republic which operates on the rule of law. Which means, if you don't like a law, then write your congressman and/ or start a ballot initiative. "

local81 wrote on Apr 30, 2008 1:43 PM:

" MyPoint im with you. Why isnt there a counter march? Id be there for sure and im sure there would be alot of support. What is the point of this march? Its illigal to be here illegaly why is that so hard to understand? a march isnt going to change that. "

Exasperated wrote on Apr 30, 2008 3:01 PM:

" I really don't get it. If you come here legally, what is there to march about? Conversely, what sort of 'immigrant rights' are you marching for? If you've done it right (legally), you're now one of us, and I don't see myself or my neighbors marching to break down laws.

I don't have time to organize a counter march, but I'll certainly participate if someone wants to organize. Anyone out there who wants to plan a march to stand up for enforcing this country's laws?

"

steph wrote on Apr 30, 2008 3:10 PM:

" Would someone please care to outline the protesters' grievances? This march is sure to inflame those of us who feel our gracious hospitality is being abused in many ways. More than anyone, I do blame my elected officials who are derelict in their duty to protect our borders. But do tell me, what more can we do for you who came here out of order? Are the opportunities for success and a chance at the American dream not enough? Is the bilingual/bicultural accommodation we've brought you not enough? The education and clean water, safe housing and laws we have here, that you do not enjoy in your native country--are these not enough? Are the free entitlements like Section 8 housing and free healthcare and WIC and foodstamps for your children not enough? How are you giving back to the country that has, in fact, welcomed you and sheltered you? What are you doing to protect the culture that is superior to the culture that didn't take such good care of you, that didn't provide the fairness and rights that this one does? I'm feeling a bit affronted at this point. I supported a Fiesta Theme at the fair; I embrace the good parts of your culture. I am glad those of you who are law-abiding and hard-working are here--you make our country greater and stronger. What do you have to protest? Please tell us--we really want to know. I'm sorry but I can't help but feel terribly insulted by the intrusion and your lack of thankfulness and cooperation. "

Dwayne wrote on Apr 30, 2008 3:33 PM:

" Steph: Thank you for a great post.... "

momtoo wrote on Apr 30, 2008 3:36 PM:

" Ditto steph!
Hope INS goes for a nice walk in downtown napa Thursday night! "

winemd wrote on Apr 30, 2008 3:41 PM:

" Thank you Steph! I appreciate those who work hard and do things the right way. I like to celebrate other cultures. But I draw the line at ingratitude, and expectation that we have to take care of everyone who comes here illegally. "

napabornandraised wrote on Apr 30, 2008 4:11 PM:

" These Latinos feel like they have something to say. Let them march peacefully. "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." Martin Luther King, Jr. "

Sickothis wrote on Apr 30, 2008 4:19 PM:

" Heh.. I know sam. Was just pointing out the error. "

steph wrote on Apr 30, 2008 4:29 PM:

" In our country, unlike the country that was abandoned, people do have the legal right to peaceful assembly, and nobody is suggesting otherwise. "

VJ07 wrote on Apr 30, 2008 4:42 PM:

" To Steph. Well spoken!! I'm 100% behind your thinking. I wonder though if you know for certain that illegals are accomodated by the Section 8 Housing program? Please fill me in on your experience with this. This info is of great importance to me. Thank you! Have a good evening. "

kingsavage wrote on Apr 30, 2008 4:55 PM:

" why dont they go on strike for a day like they did last year? i hear that really worked out well for them. i personally didnt notice. "

roadtrip wrote on Apr 30, 2008 5:17 PM:

" I don't understand what exactly they are marching for or against. The provisons in HR 4437 make perfect sense to me... you can read them in Wikipedia. Other than the cost of implementing the bill, I like it for all law abiding persons, natural born or otherwise. "

someguyinnapa wrote on Apr 30, 2008 5:51 PM:

" steph

GREAT POST!

Very well said... you've left those of us that feel like you with nothing left to say!

Viva Legal! "

steph wrote on Apr 30, 2008 6:17 PM:

" I checked ochousing.org, to look at the qualifications for Section 8 housing. I did a Google search "section 8 housing how do i qualify" and confirmed that one member of the household needs to be an American citizen. So all an illegal immigrant needs to do is have her baby in an American hospital, and then that baby will by law be a U.S. citizen. Then the baby qualifies for assistance, courtesy of American (documented) wage-earners. The mother, of course, lives with the baby under the same roof. What a windfall! If I claim to be unmarried, I get more benefits, even if the father of my babies lives with me, because I'm needier. I mis-spoke below; the entitlements are not actually "free." I don't know about you, but when I multiply my hourly wage times the number of hours worked, I have to subtract a large sum that goes to taxes, a large portion of which go to entitlement programs in the U.S. Now, if I were poor and wanted a better life for my children, I'd do the same thing as the hypothetical woman I describe here. On the other hand, if I were in charge of this government, I'd cut way back on entitlement programs and have everyone provide services for their checks every month. That's how I earn mine, and it's good for me and for my community that I'm contributing more than I take. It's hard for me not to feel cheated when the family ahead of me in line at the grocery store pays with food stamps for some things and a wad of cash for other things, and then puts those groceries into a car that is nicer than mine. "

irishman wrote on Apr 30, 2008 6:31 PM:

" iam down for a counter march, its not to late to wake up and start letting them know not all is well in river city. but be nice. "

109823 wrote on Apr 30, 2008 7:13 PM:

" You just gotta love it, these people invade our country by the millions, take advantage of our gov't programs (that our tax dollars support) have free education, medical and food stamps. Now they're protesting for immigrant rights! Why don't we just give them the country?? If this happened in any other country in the world there would be a war. I'm with you Momtoo, I hope the INS is present at this march. I would love to see them round up the whole lot and check for citizens. I wonder what would happen if Americans marched in Mexico? I think we'd all be in jail. "

illbeme wrote on Apr 30, 2008 7:37 PM:

" Steph, I believe what the protest is about is the fact that ICE can come in the work place find the Illegal immigrants and well SHIP them back to where ever they come from. Therefor also finding out where they live and sending the family back as well. And in the yes of the Illegal immigrants this might seem unfair. No I am not on their said my family on both sides did the right way got work visas and then became citizens. For I am half mayan and pacific islander and I remember marching with Cesar Chavez back in stockton and well this what he was marching for better work conditions and that employers hire works with work visas and work on becoming a citizen so if to chose but not to take advantage of the US and those that abide by the US Laws. I hope this helps?! "

l707 wrote on Apr 30, 2008 8:51 PM:

" For all those people that say "why protest their is no point" the reason we march is because the only thing we came here is to have something better than what he didnt had in our country i know that their is people out their that do crime and all of that but that does not mean that we all do the same thing we all know that we have ancestors that migrated here from another country and they go to stayed and now many years past and u are still here with you family. why can imigrants be here just like your ancestors some of u say "they are taking our jobs, our help like food stamps. and yet i dont see any american working in fields, biulding your houses, preparing your food, ect., we dont steel your help like your food stamps their is many legal persons getting food stamps, wic, ect. it really gets me frustrated that you think this way because you dont know how hard it is to be in you own country with your family and dont have anything to eat, dont have a home, or a education it is really sad. Also many people say why cant they just come legal here in order to do that you need alot of money and time and people get desperate and are willing to risk everything just to come here. We dont want to ruin your country or anything like that. We are very thankful that their are many people that supports us and thank you to all. i hope this helps to see the other side of the story from a 15 year old that gets scare everytime "ICE" is here and might take my mom. "

Marquis de Mark wrote on Apr 30, 2008 9:00 PM:

" Draconian is a good mount. I bought mine used from Hans Solo. Zoot Alhors. "

steph wrote on Apr 30, 2008 9:05 PM:

" Well, here's where I alienate a lot of previously like-minded folks. I think our immigration system is TOTALLY messed up, and it begins and ends with my government playing whack-a-mole at the border to what end I don't know, as people die or are raped or indentured or trafficked, then protecting illegal immigrants when they're here from what should be immediate deportation, giving them all sorts of American-earned money, then threatening those same families with random enforcements, yet not deporting illegals convicted of felonies and the like. I'm pretty angry about all this, because I feel helpless. I half wonder if the elected officials love this "us vs. them" game when, in the end, we all get ripped off by the people who are charged with keeping law and order. It's a crying shame but I think Americans and wanna-be Americans are finally getting sick of it. "

aztecprincess wrote on Apr 30, 2008 9:07 PM:

" to all fo you that are against la marcha, i have one thing to say to you all, you guys say that what is it that we are doing here? well we are just making you lives easier by doing the job that you don't want to do or can't do because i don't think that one of you could last one day working at the vineyards picking grapes. so every time that you take a bite out off your food remember who picked it from the ground or from the trees,you guys should be grateful to have people like us that do all the work , and that all we want in return is to be appreciated, and get something back from all our hard work. not all illegal immigrants are bad don't judge people that you don't know. "

kbf wrote on Apr 30, 2008 9:16 PM:

" 1707- All the things you mentioned is happening, from free medical, food, school. It is the ILLEGALS that people are upset about not the LEGALS. There might be more jobs for US citizens if there were not so many illegals. Steph you are right on. If people are worried about ICE coming in and deporting people too bad that means they are here illegally (breaking the laws). Everyone should remember that bounty hunting is illegal in Mexico and when one of our citizens went to Mexico and caught a fugutive the bounty hunter was arrested in Hawaii and put in a Mexican jail for awhile. Everyone wake up we are losing our country. This time they are going to carry American flags-good call, last time they marched it was mexican flags. "

Abrie wrote on Apr 30, 2008 9:24 PM:

" Okay first of all some Immagrants can't afford anything especially coming into the country. They come here in the first place to find a new life and to get a high paying job that they can't get in Mexico. Also if illegal immagration happened in another country it's their problem. Why can't the USA just leave other countries problems alone for once. I mean we have our own ways in our country other countries have other ways! Every one doesn't have to have the same kind of laws and what not. That's why we have different countries, to suit other peoples needs! Now about Economy. Aren't Illegal Immigrants helping our economy just as much as we are? They're still paying for stuff they're still making things so we can get on with our lives. I don't see the point of kicking them out.

That's just my opion. Everyone is entitled to their own. "

Rocco wrote on Apr 30, 2008 9:57 PM:

" Dear Illbeme, Thank you for your post and for correctly reminding us of the wonderful work of Caesar Chavez. This great man supported the worker, fought for fair wages, and of course fervently opposed illegal immigration!!! (P.S. Quick question…Where do our elected officials, sworn to uphold the law, find the gall to support and praise those that illegally enter our country? Hey, Ortiz and Hurtado, you know where to find me…answer that one for me please.) "

l707 wrote on Apr 30, 2008 10:09 PM:

" KBF- you keep mentioning Mexico we dont only have mexicans imigrants here we have from all over the world last year we didnt only have mexican flags we had from all other places like El Salvador. You also said that people are worry about "ICE" then they are ilegal but as i said in my other comment they are willing to risk it! Another thing that i wil like to pint out is that you said that you are "loosing your country" just because their is a big conflict of imigration it doesnt mean that you are loosing you country it's not like we are having a president that said only inmigrants are allowed all other people leave it's not like that. We are looding this country by many other ways like war! I really respect your opinions of all of you guys as i would like you guys to respect ours!!!!:) "

barefoot wrote on Apr 30, 2008 10:21 PM:

" I want to rob a bank. No, not really. But when does commiting a crime to better my personal life make it okay. Illegal is illegal for a reason. "

kdbk wrote on Apr 30, 2008 10:22 PM:

" People who don't understand the problem of illegal immigration by now will NEVER understand it. The issue has nothing to do with race. It has nothing to do with hostility toward people from other places. It has to do with CHAOS, which will only continue to increase as the problem of illegal immigration gets worse.

This would be the result in any country, involving any race or races of people throughout the world if their borders were massively trespassed over a long period of time. It's a matter of law and orderly society. Sure, many business owners in the U.S. have been greedy and taken advantage of poor illegal immigrants. But that's really beside the point.

For the benefit of everyone who lives in the U.S., of all races and backgrounds, the problem of illegal immigration needs to be solved or someday there will be no desire to immigrate here whatsoever because the place will have fallen to ruin. "

steph wrote on Apr 30, 2008 10:59 PM:

" I just think real people are being hurt by our government. Mexico's economy will not be fixed by passive influx of money--that's not a real working economy. There is NO incentive to kick-start a real economy when you have the morphine of passive income that you didn't have to work for. Mexico is on a form of welfare and her people suffer. I genuinely feel for the people who come here to work hard and obey the laws, I really, really do--I think most Americans do if they have a heart. We just want law and order and our culture respected. Immigrants want law and order. They don't want the US to become just like the country they left, if they really think about it. Of course this is not a geographic issue, or a border on a map issue, it's a cultural issue. There are lots of very hard-working people here, and as I mentioned they better our country and help to grow our economy. Our government does not help by handing passive people the earnings of working people, and that's where I think the real problem is. I don't blame anyone for being so desperate as to come here "illegally." How is it "illegal" if the law is never enforced? If you wait patiently for permission to enter, our government, our system rewards the thousands who jump ahead of you in line. So, thank you to the immigrants or their families who took the time to patiently explain the other side. I appreciate it. We have a broken and unfair system that rewards what we have today, and that is a lot of frustration and angst. "

steph wrote on Apr 30, 2008 11:10 PM:

" How stupid does our government think we are? They pretend to enforce our borders, which puts people's lives at risk as they try to cross, knowing that once they get here, chances are they'll be mostly safe and cared for until they go home and have to cross again. Meanwhile, unscrupulous drug dealers and coyotes are making a killing! Literally! Because our system rewards this behavior. I think this is cruel! But then sometimes some otherwise mostly law-abiding hard-working family is targeted for deportation when our prisons are full of people who should be first on the list to go? Does this make sense to anyone? It's ridiculous. If our labor laws were enforced, and entitlements were cut dramatically, and we allowed people to come back and forth over the border for legitimate reasons, this would be a more dignified and humane way of cooperating with our neighbor, and we'd ALL be much happier, right? Is this so hard? Why are our politicians lying to us and getting away with it? It's time for a third party to rise up and LEAD AMERICA BACK TO GREATNESS--to prosperity and respect in the world. "

mypoint wrote on Apr 30, 2008 11:19 PM:

" I really don't don't how to organize a march and the legalities involved, but if anyone knows or is interested in a counter march, I'm there. Lets do it...I'm sick of the free loaders that think they have rights! "

steph wrote on Apr 30, 2008 11:35 PM:

" Hey, l707, imagine if you will, millions of Americans moving to Mexico, and buying up land, and laying down Americanized strip malls, with some Red Lobster restaurants, and everyone only spoke English, and we had some gated communities with big modern-looking Eichler style houses, and we put in freeways, and we kinda changed how Mexico looks and feels? Let's say Mexico started to look a little more like, say, Boston or New York, and Americans started demanding property rights (which we don't have in Mexico) and we started hoisting the American flag all over your home town, how would that feel? Some Americans feel that as certain towns or parts of towns become more like Mexico in language spoken and businesses that cater to Latinos (face it, most Latinos here are Mexican), it may feel like "home" to people who come from Mexico, but in some ways it feels a little foreign to people who grew up in America. I'm being honest. But honestly, we also have people upset about change in general, even American-style change, like more strip malls and more housing developments taking over what used to be open space; not all change is due to immigration. We all need to be honest. I appreciate your contribution to the board. "

mikeb wrote on Apr 30, 2008 11:46 PM:

" If these marchers would put the same efforts into fixing the country(s) they originate from, maybe they wouldn't feel so compelled to flood across our boarders. And if our "community leaders" address the crowd with anything short of a surprise ICE lineup, I'll be voting against every one of them next election... Jill Techel, we're looking your way. "

vocal-de-local wrote on Apr 30, 2008 11:58 PM:

" mypoint, I have class tommorrow night and can't be there. But if you're serious about it, you need at designate a meeting time and place. "

vocal-de-local wrote on May 1, 2008 12:39 AM:

" I've stated this before. I have a problem with migration of ANY type into our country The overpopulated world is shoving it's way over the borders of less populated territories because more resources are available.

Overcrowding reduces quality of living and that's why we are all feeling a little uncomfortable with eachother nowadays. This leads to nitpicking. I'm sure even southern migrants are feeling the squeeze. I just do not see many smiles on their faces anymore because their living quarters are now very crowded with multiple families and more on the way. The response and reaction to overcrowding is taking a toll on everyone.

One pattern I've noticed is that migrant workers come here and work hard, but the next generation does not want to work in agriculture any more than the offspring of longterm natives do. The second generation of migrant parents, raised and educated in America, are now competing for the same jobs as everyone else except they have an advantage of being bilingual. I would like to see some statistics on how this displacement has affected the unemployment rate of natives whose families have been here for three or four generations.

Americans are perfectly capable of doing their own fieldwork without the help of migrant workers. Migrant workers do not have some special human quality making them solely capable of hard work in the fields. We stood as independent farmer/fieldworkers for more than 400 years and we are capable of returning to it if we have to. We are not helpless without the migrant worker. We just need to reform our social system so that people will have greater incentive to take these jobs like in the old days. "

someguyinnapa wrote on May 1, 2008 2:10 AM:

" There is an email floating around with a picture of Robin Williams in a shirt that says "I 'heart' NY" but it is in Arabic. He make some valid statements about immigration in it....

Here are some...

2) We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany , South Korea , the Middle East , and the Philippines They don't want us there. We would station troops at our borders. No one allowed sneaking through holes in the fence.

3) All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of whom or where they are. They're illegal!!! France will welcome them.

4) All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit!!!! No one from a terrorist nation will be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself and don't hide here. Asylum would never be available to anyone. We don't need any more cab drivers or 7-11 cashiers..

5) No foreign 'students' over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend classes, they get a 'D' and it's back home baby.

I think that he might be on to something.

Then there is the issue of a march. How can illegals be allowed to claim our country's 1st ammendment rights to "freedom of speach" and the "right to assmeble peacefully?" Don't they have to get permission for a march that shut down traffic in downtown? How did thid thing get approved? What a joke!

"

109823 wrote on May 1, 2008 6:07 AM:

" Steph, I never thought I'd say this "your last post was spot on, wish I could have said that" thank you. "

illbeme wrote on May 1, 2008 6:59 AM:

" aztecprincess what everybody is upset about is how Mexicans, and other cultural come here with out a work visa and take advantage of the US from Ga, Wic, Section 8 and so well those whom Great Grand Parents and Parents came knowing the Laws and had work Visas and became Citizens here in the US. Maybe not everyone can work the fields but if we here in the US need jobs we would be more than glad to. I tried getting a job picking grapes but had reverse discrimination on me because I do not speak the language and have a Higher education. Yet I have experience picking I did it when I was younger that is how I did my first protest march with Cesar Chavez! Bottom line many Mexicans come here and take advantage of the US. I think ICE should come to Napa spend a month or two here and bust employers and send those without papers back to their Counties. Because what the people of Napa or saying is we have had enough of Illegals here and we want OUR TOWN Back we are not Mexico yet it sure is looking like it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And Illegals give those that have work Visas and working on becoming Citizens a bad name. If you think I am wrong go to a class at night where people are learning and working on their Citizenship they will tell you Illegals give the rest a Bad Name and Image!!!!!! "

Farmgirl wrote on May 1, 2008 7:36 AM:

" To hopefully do some good, call your Senators and US Representative to pass the "Save Act" (H.R. 4088.) For more information go to "NumbersUSA" (just type that into your search engine and it will come up.) It will giv you the information and words to say. "

izzy wrote on May 1, 2008 8:08 AM:

" I just read the post by steph and agree with Dwayne. A Great post!! "

izzy wrote on May 1, 2008 8:11 AM:

" I just read the post by steph and agree with Dwayne. A Great post!! A voice of common sense and reason! "

Sandra wrote on May 1, 2008 8:32 AM:

" I am surprised the article did not also explain that this is being supported by a few groups at our local college, and there will be events on campus in support of this. There was another group who attempted to organize a support the troops day for this same day, long before the organizers of this event. They went through all the proper channels, and have had road block after road block thrown up. One of the other groups approached them and actually told them thay had better not talk about immigration, or they would be sorry. The group wanting to support the troops has become so disapointed in these groups and the college, that they have canned their event. I wonder, how does this show, as laloquera stated,"Let's show them that we can be part of the solution and not the problem. "?
"

NapaNana wrote on May 1, 2008 8:53 AM:

" I must say that I have been enjoying reading this debate here. And I am mostly impressed that everyone is sticking to the points and not bashing. Congratulations again. There will never be an easy solution to this immigration issue. There needs to be one, but where do we draw the line? Each and every one of you have very strong and valid points.....and I have to agree with ALL of you! Well....one of the comments was a bit out there, but this still isn't going to be easy.
I am all for free speach....and have marched a time or two myself back in the day. I just hope that his public march to be "heard" is conducted as well as you all have here. "

News_Chick wrote on May 1, 2008 9:29 AM:

" Call the SF INS office and leave them a message of tonight's activities...I did.

Maybe some of the illegal 'citizens' could be thinned quickly...sort of one stop shopping for the INS teams. "

Sandra wrote on May 1, 2008 9:59 AM:

" To aztecprincess....you must be very young to say, "because i don't think that one of you could last one day working at the vineyards picking grapes. " Who do you think picked the grapes before the influx of illegal workers? As for feeling appreciated? Come on....kids of illegals born here get all kinds of subsidizing....housing, medical, free schools, lunches.... As for 1707 saying, "I really respect your opinions of all of you guys as i would like you guys to respect ours!!!!:) ". Absolutely, if you are a legal citizen, then you have a right to voice your opinion. If you are not here legally, you do not have that right. I have seen too many of my immigrant friends go through the legal process to become citizens to not object when I see their efforts disrespected by a the advocation of amnesty for illegals.
"

Concerned Citizen wrote on May 1, 2008 10:20 AM:

" 1707 & Aztecprincess....the argument that you do jobs Americans won't do is blatant balogny! Once upon a time, Americans picked the fields, worked the factories, were the sous chefs, prepared and served the cuisine at local restaurants, etc. THEN, the invasion began. 1000's of illegal people from Mexico and southward floooded the labor force, ASKING, BEGGING to be paid "under the table" and without a paper trail because they WERE ILLEGALLY HERE.

This is how the problem began. Wages began to go down, benefits became "too costly" for businesses who preferred to hire the illegal workforce thus saving money on SSI, insurance, Fed. & state taxes, etc.

Then, this newly growing workforce decided to send profits and income home to Mexico rather than contributing to the economy of their newfound employment location...the U.S.

THIS IS HOW THE PROBLEM BEGAN. Then, Americans found they could not earn an honest wage for hard work because, as 1707 put it: "the only thing we came here is to have something better than what he didnt had in our country." Yes, you've succeeded in creating an underground work force, lowering wages, reducing the quality of life in this country, draining a social services system which, if we are to be honest, is forking out millions of $'s for this new low wage illegal workforce who does not make enough, does not have insurance, etc. and therefore depends on the state/Fed. govs. AND who have driven out the American worker who has too much pride to tap into the welfare system...instead; California is experiencing "White Flight."

This is what you, illegal southern border laborers, have done to the United States of America.

March on...you WILL NOT get my support! "

my2cents68 wrote on May 1, 2008 10:24 AM:

" You know what's funny (well, not really) but the people for whom this march is for can't even read this blog. So they're probably not even aware of everyone's opinion here. I'd be curious to know how many of the participants at the march are illegal. A lot wont' come out for fear of ICE or agencies like that might also make an appearance. So like all else, they benefit from someone else doing the work for them. I understand where they're coming from, life in Mexico bites if you're not rich or have a very good job. I come from a family of immigrants, but they did it the legal way and now they're citizens. I'm a citizen and so are my children. I have family in Mexico that are not only educated, but well off and they can't even get a Visa to come visit because it's so hard to get one. Do they cross over illegally? No they don't, they keep trying and we keep e-mailing each other to keep in touch. In the end though, this problebm wouldn't even exist if #1 Mexico took care of it's own problems. But they won't as they benefit from everyone sending dollars to Mexico and #2 and I think most importantly, if employers and elected officials not only in this valley but across America enforced the laws that are already in place. So for all of you getting your feathers ruffled, it's not the Latinos (and I say Latinos because Mexicans are not the only one's here illegally although they are the majority) that are here legally that is the issue but the illegals. "

pernodboi wrote on May 1, 2008 11:39 AM:

" Hey! I just realized - today is May Day and International Worker's Day. What a great day for a parade!

I, of course, think it a little early to wear white and will probablw wear red. Hope to see everyone there (reagardless of race) to promote the internation working man (errrr.... I mean person). "

l707 wrote on May 1, 2008 12:08 PM:

" To steph ok thier is many american leaving in mexico. now what is wrong with latinos putting business around here because not only latinos put business around here their is also indu people, chinese people, i really dont see what is wrong with that. i understand ur frustration about your opinion of us "taking over" but it is not true you guys say that you want to make a march aslo protesting against inmigration and go ahead it is your opinion you hace the right to do it as we have to do ours. you really need to understand that what we want is some rights like be treated the same way as any american here!!!!!!!! "

Paisano wrote on May 1, 2008 1:06 PM:

" People are claiming that Americans cannot own property in Mexico or peacefully assemble without the Federales showing up. Have any of you ever been to Mexico? I'm an American citizen and I own property in Mexico. I have been a part of peaceful marches in Mexico with no interference from the Federales or the local government. People are also suggesting that the INS shows up to Thursdays March. I truly hope that the INS does show up and asks me for my identification. That way I can show them as well as the rest of the community that not all Hispanics are in this country illegally. "

eas001 wrote on May 1, 2008 1:08 PM:

" Protest Mexico! That is the country that is doing a disservice to it's own citizens. "

selim wrote on May 1, 2008 1:37 PM:

" That Robin Williams email is a famous hoax (check snopes dot com). Don't believe everything you read, especially in your inbox. "

asahigo wrote on May 1, 2008 1:38 PM:

" l707 you want the same rights as the rest of the citizens? Simple solution, become a citizen. How can illegal immigrants who knowingly break laws demand the same rights as legal citizens? "

toratora wrote on May 1, 2008 1:48 PM:

" Paisano, I regards to your so called owning property down in mexico you will never technically own your property, There is a document that you signed called a "Fidieicomiso" its only good for 50 years at the end of that term it can only be renewed by the mexican government if they wish and we know how they fill about americans.
"

napablogger wrote on May 1, 2008 2:18 PM:

" Steph, I find myself in agreement with your point of view, but I would also add the point that, yes, it is our government's fault for not enforcing the 1986 law, but the people looked the other way, and in fact the business community wanted the immigrants as workers and we all benefitted from it and did nothing for two decades. So I think we have to take some responsibility for what we created. We have kids here illegally for ten years who know no other life. Is it fair when we allowed that to happen to just boot them all out?

The other point in this discussion is that indeed if we were able to boot all of them out that are illegal quickly, it would do tremendous harm to business. We do not have the labor to replace them and those against illegal immigration do not want to hear that, but it is true.

If vineyard wages doubled, the workers would leave other jobs to come here and wherever they left would suffer. Prices would inflate severely and it would work its way through the economy. One of the largest vegetable growers on the east coast who grows a lot of tomatos decided not to plant tomatos this year due to a lack of labor from all the illegals who have already left out of fear.

I think we need some form of forgiveness, work visas, something to smooth the transition. That is both necessary for business and for humanitarian reasons. And also, why should we suffer so much through the transition? Close the gate and work through the transition in a reasonable and humane manner. Some would call that amnesty but that is a term of propaganda. "

Miss HALLEY wrote on May 1, 2008 2:29 PM:

" I suppose if they tried to overthrow their
own goverment we would send troops in
to help their government.

This is a no win situation. "

steph wrote on May 1, 2008 4:08 PM:

" I'm not in favor of immediate deportation of all people here "illegally" and I don't think I've said anything to the contrary here. I'm in favor of implementation of a worker permit program that is enforced, and the reduction of entitlement programs for US citizens and those which benefit immigrants, as well. I don't favor the government taking money from productive people and giving it to nonproductive people. I don't see how my country benefits from the importation of economically dependent people who make more economically dependent people. I'm also not against Latino businesses, of course, and I frequent many here in town. I wonder when enough is enough, though. Shall we throw the borders wide open and welcome all-comers from all over the world? Do immigrants from Mexico want to compete with immigrants from China and India, El Salvador and Brazil, or do they favor some sort of regulation? As I said, our system is broken, and it's cruel. It needs reform. We Americans really ought to be marching side-by-side with the mainly Spanish-speaking crowd tonight, because we all want immigration reform. NB, you are right, we've gotten what we deserved. When we had boom times, we needed labor and we looked the other way. We need new young workers to take the place of soon-to-be retired Baby Boomers, who will require a lot of care and entitlements soon, but who did not replace their population. However, we were powerless against the government taking our tax dollars and wasting them. Fact is--and I've said it before on other blogs--we need immigrants in our country. But we need law and order, as well. "

l707 wrote on May 1, 2008 6:46 PM:

" to asahigo, i'm alreadya citezen here thanks to my mother. and when i say fair rights i mean hace the correct wages, respect, and be treated just like anyother people. like i said before we dont wan to take over ur country we just want to work we don t wan tto be president, have a job in a gov. what we want to do is WORK! why cant you guys understand that. we dont want to take over nothing. now their also one thing that this othe person said "once upon a time we work in field" ok that was onece upon a time but how about now what about now ok then how come we dont see any one their. today theor is alot of work in the fields, winerys, biulding houses, ect. why dont you guys go their we will be happy to work with you. and you guys said "just becuase ur an inmigrant you dont deserve freedom of speech" well why not that why we have the statue of liberty here where any person can say what they want here express what they wan. one last thing not only inmigrants are in the march also many legal people their so go ahead call who ever you want we wil never give up that will just make us stronger!!! and stop pointing out only to mexicans!!!!!! "

109823 wrote on May 1, 2008 6:51 PM:

" Napablogger, can you please tell me how I personally benefitted from immigrants? I don't drink wine, don't eat Mexican food and don't use any day labor. I never bought into their lie that they weren't here to take our jobs because as you see there's more and more Latino owned businesses every day. I try to patronize the English speaking businesses at all costs. "

aztecprincess wrote on May 1, 2008 7:12 PM:

" l707. wow. i am with you.
"SI SE PUEDE" LE DUELA A QUIEN LE DUELA. "

Rocco wrote on May 2, 2008 7:13 AM:

" Hey Napa Bloviator,
If you’re going to rehash the same defeatist illegal alien apologist talking points, at least try to think them through for a second. Has “everyone” benefited from illegal immigrants depressing wages? Why did Cesar Chavez’s brother actually spend time in jail for beating up illegals at the border if they were such a great thing for “everybody?”
How about the lie that food prices would soar if we paid farmworkers what they deserve…how is that possible if the cost of production is usually less than 6% of the total retail price??? Since when has anybody suggested that rounding up and deporting 20 million illegal aliens all at once is a viable option? Forget the fence! Merely withholding services and then doing SS number verification would halt the flow immediately. Taxing Western Union money transfers out of our country at 33% or more wouldn’t be a bad idea either; how long will the bathtub of our economy have any water in it if we leave the drain open? We need to stop the hand-wringing, whiney attitude, enforce our current laws, and keep our country secure and strong. Si se Puede!
"

Paisano wrote on May 2, 2008 8:08 AM:

" toratora, In 50 years I doubt that I will still be around to renew the Fidieicomiso document so that really does not affect me owning property in any which way or form. BTW, have you ever dealt with the Mexican government? If not, how would you know how the process works? How would you know that I would not be able to renew the document that you speak of? "

Paisano wrote on May 2, 2008 9:54 AM:

" Toratora, How do Mexicans feel about Americans? I'm an American and I am always received warmly and treated nice when I visit Mexico. Toratora, have you ever taken the time to get to know a Hispanic immigrant? I would suggest you do that. Maybe that way you will stop stereotyping people. Si Se Puede! "

Yetiyet wrote on May 2, 2008 10:06 AM:

" An open border policy is defeated through the countless arrests of criminals at the border itself. by criminals I mean convicts of crimes deeming them a danger to any society. Not to mention those criminals all ready in the country who do come to work just detour into serious crimes, gang violence being an example. The laws are on the books, the good citizens with a conscience must speak up and require our federal/local law enforcement to do their job. There is no argument against local law enforcement being authorized to arrest known illegal alien criminals and remanding to ICE. Zero Tolerance Now! "

toratora wrote on May 2, 2008 10:43 AM:

" Paisano,
First off I never said anything about mexicans not liking americans If you read what I said instead of accusing me of stereotyping people (thats an old trick and I do not fall for that B.S.) I was talking about their government and be assured they look at us to be used and taken advantaged of. What a idiotic question do I know a hispanic immigrant of course I do, Anybody living in napa does "Si puede ".
To your second point have I ever dealt with the Mexican government many times and It has never been nothing but a headache!
"

Rocco wrote on May 2, 2008 11:09 AM:

" Oops! My mistake. The violent 1973 UFW “wet line” was set up under the direction of Cesar’s cousin Manuel, not his brother Richard. Just another little inconvenient truth the illegal apologists seem to leave out of their reconstructed history of the UFW and the true leadership of the great Cesar Chavez. "

Paisano wrote on May 2, 2008 12:23 PM:

" Toratora, what is idiotic is the fact that you think that the Mexican government is looking to take advantage of Americans. In my experiences, I have never been taken advantage of by the Mexican government or seen anybody else get taken advantage either. You seriously need to stop STEROTYPING people or stop watching TV. Not everything that you see in television is true buddy. "

Thepeople wrote on May 2, 2008 1:21 PM:

" To 1707: We get it! We know most people all over the world want to come here and work! It's not that we don't get it, we just don't want the entire world coming here to take jobs that American citizens and others here legally used to be able to support their families with. We don't want the entire world coming here ILLEGALLY to leach off our tax dollars that WE worked just as hard for most of the time. We don't want to be told that we can't work somwhere in OUR own country because we don't speak any other language then our own. Trust me, we know exactly why people want to come here. The point is that they need to do it LEGALLY! "

Tim wrote on May 2, 2008 2:23 PM:

" Paisano, you are wrong if you think the Mexican Govt. isn't trying to take advantage of Americans.
They have come out with a comic book
entitled "The Guide for the Mexican Migrant," the 32-page book published by Mexico's Foreign Ministry. It teaches mexicans how to get into the country illegally and get public aid.
"This guide is intended to give you some practical advice that could be of use if you have made the difficult decision to seek new work opportunities outside your country," the book says, according to the Arizona Republic.
So yes, the Mexican Govt. is trying to take advantage of Americans. "

Tim wrote on May 2, 2008 2:58 PM:

" Addendum to my last post: the book does not specifically show one how to get benefits in money form but does explain how you can try to claim rights as an american if caught by border patrol to make it harder to send back home. "

Paisano wrote on May 2, 2008 3:29 PM:

" Tim, You read in a BOOK that Mexicans are taking advantage of Americans so it must be true right? Well I read in a book that Mexican's are very nice and hard working people. I read that Mexicans are also very family oriented and that they do whatever it takes to help each other out in a time of need. "

Tim wrote on May 2, 2008 4:04 PM:

" Paisano, re-read your post, then re-read my post, you stated the MEXICAN GOVT. is not taking advantage of Americans, I said the MEXICAN GOVT. is taking advantage of the American people.. they clearly are, by producing millions of manuals showing how the Mexican people can enter and evade law enforcement.

Don't twist the subject matter. "

napablogger wrote on May 2, 2008 9:53 PM:

" 109823 & Rocco if you have ever eaten a vegetable from California, eaten in a restaurant, or live in Napa you have benefitted from illegal Mexican immigrants. They have kept the price of food lower, worked for less as busboys and dishwashers, and cause the wine industry here to make bigger profits and therefore pay more taxes in Napa. They are helping to pay for your schools, paving your roads, and generally by working hard for less have made the entire California economy better. They are even better at car pooling and not wasting gas or emitting green housegases, do less vehicle miles traveled per person by car pooling. you are making me think about this and the more I think about it the more I come up with.

The car wash on Jefferson still only charges $6 for a car wash, the same three Mexican guys have been there five years at least. Try finding a car wash for 6 bucks anywhere without immigrant labor, bet you can't.

I agree with Steph 100%, I am no fan of illegal immigration. But we made our bed and now we have to lie in it.

6% for production is big for the farmers, btw, because profits are not much more than that often times. "

kdbk wrote on May 2, 2008 11:33 PM:

" Gee paisano, why are you so afraid of the facts? Facts like the billions of dollars that are spent educating and providing medical and other publicly funded services for illegal immigrants. Facts like how there are over 100,000 illegal immigrants in our nation's prisons. Facts like how thousands of illegal immigrants are abused, raped, robbed and imprisoned by the "coyotes" who smuggle many of them to the U.S.

Oh, and don't for get the fact that the past 12 months have shown a great decrease in the number of illegal immigrants coming in to the U.S., and that the next five years we will see even greater reductions as more and more Americans of all races strive to control this problem. Yikes, spooky, huh?

"

samaker wrote on May 2, 2008 11:50 PM:

" I can think of some other laws I would like to break. Where could I find a march to support bending other laws. "

asahigo wrote on May 3, 2008 1:11 AM:

" l707 kudos to you and your mom for being legal immigrants. Legal immigrants do deserve fair wages and working conditions. They also deserve fair living conditions and all other freedoms that legal citizens enjoy. I have no problems with legal immigration. Most of the people in this blog don't have a problem with legal immigration. What we are so upset about is their illegal immigration and blatant abuse of the United States citizens generosity. "

cellsitegod wrote on May 3, 2008 6:16 AM:

" That excuse about illegals "doing the jobs citizens won't do" is a bunch of cr_p! That worked in the 70's when farmworkers were exploited but not now. We have ten fold the amount labor needed for this "un-desirable" work.
Have you looked at a construction site lately? The building trades used to be an honorable trade for a tax paying citizen. Try supporting a family legally now on what they pay a carpenter.
This country was built strong because you could become anything you wanted. As long as you became a citizen, worked hard and pay your taxes. How dare anyone say they deserve a free handout because there is a program for it! My taxes pay for those programs because I am a citizen and I contribute to my country.
My wife is from Europe. We spent 7 months of paperwork and money getting her here legally. She has a social security number, a job, pays her taxes and obeys our laws.
Us and our forefathers worked hard to make this country great and desirable for others to live in. We're willing to let you in and share in what has been accomplished. Just do it legally and help contribute to keeping it great.
NO GREEN CARD, NO RIGHTS! "

Rocco wrote on May 3, 2008 7:48 AM:

" Swell, so we're all OK with prostituting our national security, embracing anarchy, throwing those that want to immigrate legally under the bus...all for the price of a 6$ car wash. Fantastic! "

kck wrote on May 3, 2008 8:05 AM:

" Crap we cant take care of legal citizens. I worked those so called nobody wants to do it labor jobs a good share of my life. Legal people, whites, whatever, WILL do it. So stop the poor us are here helping you. Sick of it all. "

merri wrote on May 3, 2008 8:34 AM:

" Don't sit back and take it! I have outed 3 illegals in 6 weeks. I listen carefully and then research. These three were taking jobs that were filled within hours of them being let go. Not only that but i tracked down the other family members and am awaiting information to confront thier employers. I don't go to the gov. I tell the employers they are illegal and I will report the companies. These three are having a heck of a time keeping jobs as I keep my eye on them. I promise I will do this every chance I get. Get a green card or expect to be outed. I am done with this crap. As AMERICANS so should you. Start the revolt. "

common sense wrote on May 3, 2008 3:05 PM:

" What prevents vigilante justice? Our legal system. Liberals have thrown out the rule of law...and they need to be held accountable for the consequences. "

areyouserious wrote on May 3, 2008 4:51 PM:

" merri

great idea!

Keep up the good work! "

Rocketman wrote on May 3, 2008 7:32 PM:

" The solution is simple.
Enforce and Obey the law. This is what we would be told in Mexico; or get out! "

109823 wrote on May 3, 2008 8:57 PM:

" Napablogger, thanks for the response. I've eaten veggies, I can do without eating in resturants. If I had anyone in school at this time I would either home teach or find some alternative due to the problems with the Latino gangs. Also if they're paving the roads in Napa County then I'm missing those roads. We have to have the WORST roads in the state (I think I know where these funds are channeled). I can wash my own car, mow my own lawn and clean my own house. If these are the only benefits of having illegals here then I say let's see if we can do without them. Maybe for ten years as a starting point. Bet we can find people to fill the jobs and maybe just maybe the wine industry won't make as much money. What a concept!! I'm sure it won't be the end of the world. "

Sandra wrote on May 4, 2008 9:53 AM:

" Napablogger, " But we made our bed and now we have to lie in it. "? Absolutely wrong. I did not make this bed. I refuse to lie in it. I have, as far as I know, never personally used or supported illlegal labor. I really think the price of veges is a silly argument for the benefits of an illegal work force. They have certainly not kept the price of food lower in our restaurants. They have only made the owners more profit. This is Napa, after all, a world class dining experience, and the prices reflect that....even at a hamburger joint.....The taxes these businesses pay to the county, are more than offset by the benefits used up by the many legal children of the illegal workers. The labor board should be actively persuing the owners of business that pay under the table. Recently in Napa, the hairsalons have been hit by this agency, to the tune of thousands of dollars in fines, due to the grey area of private contractors....But do they even visit any wineries? Any restaurants? Any construction sites? These are the businesses that hire illegal workers,and pay under the table.Yet, they choose to target hairsalons where I have never seen an illegal immigrant working. They are going after hard working people who struggle to take care of their families, pay their taxes, and contribute to our town, all because most of the salon industry works with private contractors, and it is a grey area they can exploit. Yet right in front of them is a wealth of fines with the other above mentioned businesses, and nothing happens there. Where is the outrage? We are going after legal citizens and turning blind eyes to the people who hire illegals. Shameful.... "

mypoint wrote on May 4, 2008 1:42 PM:

" Thanks so much Merri for actually doing something to make the situation better! You're awesome! "

pharper wrote on May 4, 2008 6:39 PM:

" Oh, boy, right. Way to go Merri, ousting hardworking employees to make yourself feel righteous. I'm sure they were very detrimental to your safety as an American. Who knows; they were probably planning a revolt against all the legal citizens in the country. Goodness knows they shouldn't get the chance to feed their families.

For those of you who didn't get it, the above was sarcasm. Plus--if you're so concerned about the actual problem (rather than three individuals), don't you think it's more appropriate to go to the authorities, who can take care of it? By merely preventing these illegal immigrants from working at honest jobs, you just sound spiteful and vindictive--not like you're actually trying to do good for the country. "

James wrote on May 4, 2008 8:29 PM:

" I hate that we, citizens, are made to feel as though we are racist or bigots for wanting to protect our OUR rights as US citizens. If OUR rights are just GIVEN out at the front door as you enter, than OUR rights have ZERO value. I am tired of taking my kids to school and watching them stand alone and speak to nobody because they don't speak "the" language(spanish). The Napa School District was once a very good district, and now ranks VERY low on the national rankings scale. It is both sad and amazing how fast this has happened. I do understand the other side. I would do anything to better my families situation. In fact, I am migrating out of state myself. I was born and raised in Napa, but will soon be leaving because I feel it gives my kids the best quality of life, and chance for success. I do understand the dilemma. Instead of fighting over what to do with the illegals that are here, why don't start with preventing more from POURING over the border. I want to make clear that I DO NOT dislike any of the individuals who have attempted to give their families a better quality of life. I just dislike that they have DECREASED my families quality of life, and our government has allowed it to take place illegally. "

steph wrote on May 5, 2008 8:27 AM:

" James, you should have your kids assimilate. "

Paisano wrote on May 5, 2008 8:28 AM:

" kdbk, I'm terrified. "

Paisano wrote on May 5, 2008 8:32 AM:

" samaker, What laws were broken during Thursday's March? The march was about REFORM buddy. "

merri wrote on May 5, 2008 9:04 AM:

" Listen I am ethnic, I have tons of hispanic friends. I work 2 jobs, I came to this country legally. I feel out gov. is broken. The system is broken. Don't you think I reported these people to ICE? To the local DA. No help. They are over whelmed and I am only doing what I feel is my right. If you don't start doing something then no one will do anything and where are you then. Right back full circle. The world is in big trouble, america is spinning out of control. I came here legally for a better life and what do I get? Sorry if I offend some of you but I am will not change my methods. In fact it's time to organize and see what we can do. "

JELLYBEAN wrote on May 5, 2008 10:28 AM:

" I also agree with most of my fellow posters here: illegal immigration is a HUGE problem that is not being dealt with by our govt officials ! by the way I would like to mention to "Aztecprincess" and "l707", could please speak/write in ENGLISH on this post as this country is ENGLISH speaking and ENGLISH is the primary language as you can very well see this post is in, not Spanish. (Assimilation is greatly appreciated, thank you.) "

vocal-de-local wrote on May 5, 2008 10:53 AM:

" Here's a mind boggling video on the immigration problem. Go to YouTube and enter "Immigration Gumballs" into the search engine. If you haven't seen this video yet, you better take a look. It's very alarming. "

Paisano wrote on May 5, 2008 12:59 PM:

" You can find all types of useless 411 on you tube. Useless 411 that teaches about hate, discrimination, and crimes committed by all ethnicities not just Hispanics. You can go on you tube and learn about White supremacy just as easy as you can see the speeches that are said at these rallies. "

vocal-de-local wrote on May 5, 2008 5:52 PM:

" Paisano, the video is not about hate. It's about the issue of "worldwide" population growth. There is nothing "hateful" about it. It's the most visual presentation on human population growth I've ever seen.

Do you consider it "hateful" when someone tells the truth about the human growth problem and it's effects on all of us? Mexico need to control the amount of children produced. They need planned parenthood, birth control etc. to get it's numbers under control. There is no way Mexico can provide for it's people when there are too many of them. Their answer is to send them over the border, making it someone else's problem. It's not right.

Btw, I don't know what you're talking about when you say "useless 411". before you jump to conclusion, actually watch the video from start to finish. "

pharper wrote on May 5, 2008 7:58 PM:

"
Merri, having tons of Hispanic friends doesn't somehow "absolve" you or make you seem more worldly/accepting. Kudos for entering the United States legally, but the country isn't "spinning out of control" because of illegal immigration; if anything, it's spinning out of control because of a war we didn't need, and the scores of people who feel that kicking out mainly Hispanic Californian laborers will somehow help the economy.

Vocal-de-local, a video designed to somehow “scare” people into action (and on Youtube, no less) is probably not the best source for information. I haven’t actually seen it, I’ll admit that, but if you’re going to cite outside sources, don’t use Youtube for one; videos that bloggers post on the internet are NOT reliable sources for information. And as for the horrible stereotype you seem to see as the gospel, it isn’t only Mexicans contributing to the population explosion. The human growth problem is enormous, of course, but it isn’t the fault of just one ethnicity. The citizens of Mexico probably do need more information about birth control, and services like the ones Planned Parenthood provides, but so do Americans. The more people who fight to teach only abstinence in schools, the more politicians elected to office who want to refuse to give the people already in America the right to information about birth control/abortion, the bigger the human growth problem gets. It has NOTHING to do with illegal immigration.
"

luv2surf wrote on May 5, 2008 9:48 PM:

" The other day, my girlfriend and I had a debate after reading an article in the paper regarding the dropout rate for Hispanic students in California, which is over 50% compared to the dropout rate for Asian immigrant students which is approximately 7%. Why is it that when an Asian immigrant comes to this country, they excel, while the South American immigrant will usually be a burden on the tax payer? Why it is the majority of the Cal students are now Asian? Engineers, doctors, bio-tech... Asian and Indian immigrants excel and you never see or hear them complain about their social benefits about to be cut or them wanting more rights or for their hosting population to conform to their "special" needs for that matter. And crime? When was the last time anyone read about the huge Asian and Indian crime problems here in California? Are a group of Indian guys ever going to try to "stare you down" while at the State Fair? They definitely don’t make up 60% of the prison population here in California and whereas 30% of that are illegal immigrants. Why is it that just about every municipality which has had a huge influx of illegal’s over the past decade are suing the federal government to be compensated? If this immigration issue was such a good one, then why aren’t these municipalities waiting at the border with gift baskets for all these immigrants who are going to contribute greatly to their society instead of passing laws to discourage them? My girlfriend ended our argument by just stating that the reason Asians do so well here, is because of cultural differences. In trying to defeat my argument, she actually made it for me. That’s the bottom line. "

vocal-de-local wrote on May 5, 2008 10:45 PM:

" Pharper, you said "It has NOTHING to do with illegal immigration"

Yes it does. Over population is the principal cause of people wanting to migrate. When there are too many people present in a country, there are fewer resources, fewer jobs etc, and the quality of life diminishes. Illegal or legal, those who migrate are not doing it just because they feel like it. They're trying to escape from something else. in the case of Mexico, they are escaping from lack of opportunity due to overcrowding. The Catholic Church can be blamed for this, at least in Mexico due to their policies against birth control.

And I am well aware of the worldwide population problem. However, without a body of water to separate populations, those in Mexico can easily make their population problem our problem. The U.S. would be at a slow growth if not for immigrants. But I do agree, we have a problem called enabling within our own country which should also be addressed and this is also an issue I am quite responsive too.

YouTube showed a very visual picture of the problem and I thought it was appropriate for those who don't like to read scientific literature. But I can certainly find information published by experts in the field if you want me to. Just let me know.

We must quit hiding our heads in the sand because our limited resources cannot possibly care for our growing worldwide population. Someone's going to suffer. I just don't think it should be us. We are not the ones growing beyond the natural capacities of the territory we live in. "

kdbk wrote on May 5, 2008 11:56 PM:

" pharper, what in blue blazes are you talking about? The problems caused by illegal immigration are painfully obvious for everyone to see...at least those who are willing to see, that is. But you, like paisano, refuse to deal with the facts:

- over 100,000 illegal immigrants in our nation's prisons.

- massive fraud and abuse perpetrated on illegal immigrants by the human smugglers. (Have you heard the horror stories about the "drop houses"? Dozens of people held in some house with one poorly functioning bathroom...).

- Billions being spent on health care, education and other social services for illegal immigrants. (Have you heard of the many hospitals closing in the Southwest...are you paying attention at all?)

- Wage scales cut or stagnated in various industries throught the country because of the cheap labor supplied by illegal immigrants.

The list goes on. Not to mention that a large number of illegal immigrants have ZERO interest in assimilating in to American culture. That's really strange. Everything they go through to get here, then they just want to make "here" as much like Mexico as possible. Really strange.

"

funnyme wrote on May 6, 2008 6:14 AM:

" "...in the name of immigration reform in what’s being called a march for peace, faith, reflection and immigrant rights."
March for Peace?
Faith?
Reflection?
Immigrant rights?

Can someone please explain the above points to me?

If only all of these "protesters" and the "people" orchestrating them had the guts to travel south to Mexico City, stand up in the middle of the Zocalo (Main Plaza), in front of Palacio Nacional (National Palace) and protest (Demanding!) the Mexican Government to stop the CORRUPTION right away so all of these illegal workers could go back home and get a job and live with and support their families. Protest (Demanding!) to stop the drug traffic where government officials at the least get their pockets filled up with drugs and money.
And then when all of that is "granted", come back here to the US and start protesting about your feelings being hurt because someone looked at you with the stink eye...Pathetic!

Corruption has been the problem since Spain colonized Mexico over 500 years ago. The latest war in Iraq started based in the fact that a corrupted dictator allowed terrorists to operate from his own government offices...I start to wonder if mexican dictatorship sounds anything like Iraq's.

And don't give me the "racist card". I was born and raised in Mexico City, came here legally and became a Naturalized American Citizen who gladly adopted the US culture by speaking and writing English all the time because...well...It is the US after all.
God bless America! "

Paisano wrote on May 6, 2008 8:30 AM:

" vocal-de-local, How would you know that Mexico's population is spiraling out of control? Have you ever lived there? "

Tim wrote on May 6, 2008 4:59 PM:

" They want fair and just "reform"? they better be careful what they ask for....If that type of "reform" took place the Mexican people would be at the end of the line. The average Guatemalan is much poorer than the average person in Mexico, they make on average half as much.

"Just" reform would mean putting the Guatemalans before the Mexicans since they earn half the wage a Mexican earns.

Next in line would be the Cubans, they too earn only half of what a Mexican earns in a year.

It is all about just wanting to feed their families and since the Cubans, Guatemalans, and many many other countries are worse off than Mexico, justice would demand that we bring them in first.

Wouldn't that be just and fair reform?

"

vocal-de-local wrote on May 7, 2008 12:35 AM:

" Paisano, firstly, I've been to Mexico numerous times. I've walked down the streets of Mexico City. I know how to recognize crowding when I see it.

Here are a few facts about Mexico's population:

the U.N. Population Division projects Mexico's population to grow from its current 100 million to 140 million within the next 50 years, a 40% increase. (The Census Bureau actually projects a higher 153 million in 2050, a 50 percent increase). Taken from U.N. Population Division 2002 Annex Tables and U.S. Census Bureau International Database, Summary demographic data.

Also read about Population momentum to understand why Mexico is in trouble - a tendency for population growth to continue even after replacement-level fertility (2.1 children per woman) has been achieved.

And you must take into account that some of Mexico's population is migrating elsewhere which certainly has some impact on population statistics in Mexico and elsewhere.

Mexico is the 11th largest population in the world. However, with the exception of a few, Mexico's continent is smaller than those countries with larger populations in the comparison analysis. Mexico is a very crowded place bound to worsen and I don't know how you can deny it.

Another problem is that much of Mexico is dry desert land not suitable for agriculture. Mexico lacks abundant water resources. It's just not wise for Mexico to continue on it's reproductive path without addressing the problem. Is it wise to have five mouths to feed when you can only afford one?

Paisano, I really hope you're not trying to imply that Mexico does not have a problem with it's level of population. Face it and deal with it.

"

areyouserious wrote on May 7, 2008 4:38 AM:

" I am not sure why I did not get a post on this one before but here it goes again....

Catholics do not believe in birth control.

Most people living in Central America are Catholic.

Most ILLEGAL immigrants come from Central America.

Do the math... If 1+1=2

Then 2 Central American Catholics will soon = 8. I have seen it happen in my own MEXICAN CATHOLIC family....

Not me though! I am getting snipped! I have had my 2 kids! And I denounced the Catholic Religion years ago.... They could never tell me why they have statues of every saint in DIRECT defiance of the 1st commandemnet!

Truth and comedic relief all in one at your service! "

lahrgsp wrote on May 7, 2008 8:31 AM:

" Catholics believe in Birth control!! I have 5 kids got an IUD, my Dad had 3 kids and got a vasectomy many years ago and is a devoted Catholic.
Its mostly not because they dont believe in it its that a lot dont know where to get it and I highly doubt they have free clinics in Mexico and there are many meany mexican who dont have tons of kids. "

vocal-de-local wrote on May 7, 2008 10:15 AM:

" In Mexico, at one time, catholic policies on birth control did play a role in unrestrained growth of population. Whether that holds true today I don't know. However, once a population has reached peak, even replacement level will maintain the original high level. I also believe Catholic policies on birth control created a mindset that having lots and lots of children was a good thing. It might have been good at a point in history where child mortality rates stood around 50%. Today, with medical care, those statistics no longer hold true. We need to respond to that change by having fewer children, for the sake of a healthy future.

lahrgsp, 5 children? Well all I can say to anyone who has had too many children is: what's in the past is in the past. But as we move forward into a world of fewer resources, we must teach our children to limit the number of children they have.

Does anyone know the statistics on how expensive it is to raise and educate children today? It's pricey. Parents should evaluate both their personal costs to raise children AND costs to our environment. We really need to step up to that plate.

lahrgsp, do it for the five children you have. Teach them to think ahead about the impact of population on the environment and to consider limited resources when planning for families. Life will be much less complex and more enjoyable with fewer children to care for. Fewer children allows a parent to provide more attention to each child. And it's better for the earth. "

vocal-de-local wrote on May 7, 2008 10:21 AM:

" lahrgsp, in response to what you said about lack of birth control availability: many years ago when we first began giving food aid to Africa and other starving countries, our goal was to help them reduce their population by handing out birth control with the food. That plan failed. We dropped the birth control and continued with the food aid.

I think we need to evaluate our priorities at this turning point of our history. Our goal should be providing free birth control for all food aid we hand out. It will be worth the cost to us, not initially, but in the future. "

109823 wrote on May 7, 2008 7:45 PM:

" vocal-de-local, great posts more responsible (both young and old) adults should read and understand that we're in for tough times in the not-so-distant future as a result of over population. The Mexicans that are pouring into the U.S. illegally and multiplying at an alarming rate will drive America over the 400 million mark in less than 40 years. That which they fled will be created again for them. There's only so much food, water, natural resources and jobs. This will ultimately increase crime, to staggering heights, as we fight for existence. As is noticed our government does nothing to address the problems, because it's a known fact that big business runs the government and big business wants cheap labor. So we're basically just chasing our tails, until someone grows a spine and stands up to big business. But until that happens it's business as usual, more gangs, graffitti and illegals. The more that are here the louder the outcry when amnesty is refuted and the existing laws are enforced. "

luv2surf wrote on May 7, 2008 11:54 PM:

" Same problems happening throughout the European Union as well; My family immigrated from Spain and they too are having difficulties with immigrants however being that the people actually run the government there instead of big business, they have enacted changes to their immigration laws which make it tougher to collect welfare, get paid for how many babies you have while on Spanish soil and you have to "keep your nose clean" and not be a burden on society for at least 6 years before applying for citizenship. This includes everyone, even Americans, so no can say "oh they are just oppressing the poor South Americans..." Ridiculous and that argument is getting old, even in liberal Europe. France, Denmark, Netherlands, Sweden, etc... are soon to follow, if they havent already done so. Since we are not a democracy as previously stated but a "republic", as Rome once was, our government is easy influenced and dictated by special interest and yes, those interest do want cheap labor so that their bottom line will increase. Remember fellow Americans, this is a Republic NOT a Democracy. If it was, reforms would have happened a long time ago as the people has stated so many times they wanted. "

areyouserious wrote on May 8, 2008 12:29 AM:

" lahrgsp

Ssshhhh!!!! Don't let your Dioceses leaders/Cardinals or even the Pope know about those BC things that you do. Just because you choose them does not mean that they are not frowned upon by the Catholic Church and His Holy Highness, the Pope. I spent 12 years at Catholic school. They preach abstinance rather than knowledge. And the fact is... well, kids want to experiment and fool around. This leads to teen pregancies. And without getting into all the ramifications of teaching kids about sex ed, I will point out that it is better to know about safe sex and practice it than to not know and not practice it. The Catholics that I went to school with were more of the don't ask, don't tell policy than to teach kids about safe sex.

Hence my statement is true; Catholics do not practice safe sex in most cases especially in 2nd and 3rd world countries. Central America is all 2nd and 3rd world countires. Ahhhh Brilliant deduction.

And seriously 5 kids? How can you afford to feed and clothe 5 kids? You must make a mint! Or you waited too long to practice safe sex.... Hmmmmm... "

my2cents68 wrote on May 8, 2008 4:57 PM:

" As a teenager, I went to our local youth group (Catholic). Overall it was a fun experience, however I remember the issue of birth control coming up and how it was a sin, yada, yada, yada. Since it was an open discussion, OF COURSE I had to raise my hand to which the nice sister waited almost to the end to pick me. I asked , if BC is a sin, isn't it a bigger sin to bring a child into this world only to have it suffer because it cannot be well taken care of?? Dead quiet ensued, subject was changed and I got a "talking to" afterword, lol. We didn't open any discissions like that any more, at least not while I was around. "

vocal-de-local wrote on May 9, 2008 1:33 PM:

" Good for you my2cents68. You exercised your critical thinking skills and they didn't like it! "

vocal-de-local wrote on May 9, 2008 10:39 PM:

" I just read my last post and it didn't sound the way I intended. Here's what I meant to say:

"Good for you my2cents68. You exercised your critical thinking skills and they didn't like it, but it was a really important point to make. And I do believe that children of such mothers, who lack the resources to REALLY care for their offspring, do suffer as a result of government enabling.

I have a distant relative whose family has been on government assistance for three generations now. The first generation mother had FIVE kids all but two from different fathers, and she only partially raised one of them. The grandma raised one, but the others were turned over to the foster care system. She continued collecting welfare for the one child the grandma was raising. That child grew up to have FIVE children, ALL from different fathers. She attempted to raise them and collect welfare, but her inability to cope brought attention to social services who removed some of the kids. She had one child removed because of abuse. When she was released from jail on parole for drug issues, she left the state pregnant and continued using drugs while pregnant, just like with the other babies.

The third generation is now beginning to use the system. It remains to be seen where that goes. Hopefully welfare reform is coming to their neighborhood SOON, before another generation of FIVE unloved, unwanted kids are born. I asked one of the third generation kids what he wanted to do with his future. He said he was GOING to have kids at age 20. I asked, "what about college, what about whether you can AFFORD to have children". There was complete silence. "

Join the conversation

*Member ID:
*Password:
Remember login? (requires cookies)
	Forgot Your Password?

Create an account

Comment Guidelines

The goal of the story comments section at NapaValleyRegister.com is to have an open, thought-provoking, civil community forum for all issues.

What gets your comment posted?

• Staying on topic

• Keeping your comment to 300 words or less

• Avoiding name-calling

• Addressing your comments to the message rather than the messenger

What gets your comment deleted?

• Personal attacks

• Derogatory remarks

• Name-calling of any sort

• Going off-topic

• Hate speech

• Racially-insensitive comments

• Implying guilt of a subject in a crime story before there is a court verdict

• Posting e-mail addresses

• Posting comments of a commercial nature

• POSTING WITH ALL CAPITAL LETTERS

• Linking multiple comments together with "to be continued..." to get around the 300 word limit.

The fine print

- Comments are either approved or denied. We do not edit comments.

- You are welcome to modify and resubmit a denied comment.

- Comments may take several hours to be posted.

- Comments posted are those of the writer, and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of NapaValleyRegister.com, its employees or its parent company.

- Do you have information on a story? Please go to our virtual newsroom to send us a news tip.

- If you feel a posted comment has violated our guidelines, please contact online@napanews.com or add a comment indicating you have an issue and our moderators will review the comment in question.

Search: