Obama: Clinging to the Truth | Napa Valley Register

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Obama: Clinging to the Truth

Monday, April 21, 2008

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By MICHAEL HALEY

Napablogger

October 28th, 2009

One final thought before signing off

September 23rd, 2009

Time for local economic stimulus

August 31st, 2009

Community in a world of chaos

August 20th, 2009

Schwarzenegger finally proposes pension reform

The amount of blogging, punditing and spinning going on over Obama‚s recent "gaffe" concerning people in some small Midwest towns has been simply staggering. It's an even bigger story than Jeremiah Wright, although there is a creeping note of tiredness of all the Obama bashing starting to appear.

First, here is what Obama said and a typical response to it from a critic, from the New York Times of April 16:

"Cindy Phillips, 54, a flight attendant from Leetsdale, Pa., said she had intended to vote for Mrs. Clinton before the latest feud developed. But she said her position was solidified by Mr. Obama's remarks that many small-town Pennsylvania voters, "bitter" over their economic circumstances, "cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them."

"He just doesn’t know Pennsylvania," Ms. Phillips said in an interview. "People here are religious because that's their background, not because they're mad about jobs."

The mistake she is making is that Obama said "many" not "all, or even "most." And there is no doubt that many economically disenfranchised people unfairly blame something outside themselves, including the government, or become fanatical about religion or many other things. Some cling to anti government things like the gun culture, ZOG conspiracy theories, and to all kinds of things including racism and anti-immigrant feelings.

What Obama said is clearly the truth. His mistake seems to be in telling the truth. Shouldn’t we criticize people who act that way? Yes we should. That is not elitism, that is telling the truth.

The impact it had on me was to greatly solidify my interest in him as a candidate. Why? Because it is clear that he is a truth teller, not a spin artist or frankly what we often get, an outright liar. He knew he was speaking in public, there were numerous cameras recording his speech.

Do I think he has ever spun anything? Of course. But his basic gut instinct is to tell the truth, and to stand up for what he believes in. That is what this incident shows us, despite all the desperate spinning by those already opposed to him trying to bring him down.

The Republicans have successfully attacked the character of the Democratic Presidential nominees for a while now, and one senses that they feel they may have hit pay dirt with this clinging scandal. They have escalated the propaganda to a very high decibel level, claiming it proves Obama is an elitist in the mold of John Kerry, Al Gore, even Michael Dukakis.

The one they couldn’t pin liberal elitist on successfully was Bill Clinton and he won. They are just about desperate to prove the case on Obama because it has been such a clear winner for them.

Bill Kristol is even going so far as to say that these clinging comments prove Obama was a liar about being a Christian. The GOP would love to pin that on him, because it helps validate their entirely false propaganda that he is really a Muslim. How Kristol gets there is a real stretch, but they are so bound and determined to undermine Obama‚s character that it is worth a shot. Hey, if it is good enough for Hillary, it is good enough for Rush! They may not be as different as they like to think.

Even my dear old mother, who I might characterize as your typical old-fashioned non-partisan white voter, has forwarded me the "Obama is a Muslim" email. My Gawd Mom! Here's a woman who voted for John Kerry in the last election because she didn’t like some things Bush said about God, and she is a conservative Christian. Now she is drinking the "Obama is a Muslim‚" Kool Aid.

That does not portend well for Obama, but on the other hand, he has one unique difference from Kerry, Gore, and Dukakis. Obama isn't a liar, he is a truth teller. Sure, Kerry got swiftboated but he is an elitist snob. And Al Gore was a pedantic bore; Dukakis really did look like a nerd in that tank.

Obama is pretty genuine, and he is not trying to deny he is a liberal. Even in the last debate, where many said he should have struck back harder and seemed on the defensive, wouldn’t that kind of petty mean spirited questioning just about make anyone weary and irritated? Why don‚t you wear a flag pin all the time? Maybe he just acted closer to what a real person would act like when confronted with the kind of nonsense coming from ABC's interviewers.

I love the fact that he is actually coming across as a real person in the face of the usual gotcha personal politics and extreme partisan exaggerating. Maybe that can seem "weak" to some people, but my hunch is that if he keeps it up, all these flaming character attacks from the Hillary type Republicans just won't get the traction they have over the last few election cycles.

105 comment(s)

kevin wrote on Apr 21, 2008 2:59 PM:

" I thought the whole "bittergate" comment quit comical coming from a Liberal politician to a group of San Francisco Liberals. There is no more bitter place in America than San Francisco! From City Hall all the way down to the homeless street people, it is one huge "pity party" and "blame the other guy". Outside of New Orleans, I can't think of one city that better exemplifies the failure that happens when Liberals are put in charge of a city. Did you hear Charlie Gibson ask Obama about raising the capital gains tax? How every time it is cut, income revenue increases? Obama's answer was that he didn't care about facts, he wants to raise it because it is the "fair" thing to do. McCain may be ignorant about the economy, but Obama is just plain scary... "

Hear Ye wrote on Apr 21, 2008 8:08 PM:

" The Capital gains tax mumbo jumbo is bogus. The actual facts don't support what Charlie was saying. There is a temporary increase in revenue after a tax cut followed by a slow decline to below prior levels.

Also, the "bittergate" comments , while not worded carefully were still very easy to understand. Anyone with half a brain knows what he was trying to say and would have a hard time arguing against it.

Obama isn't a saint(just being a politician eliminates that) but his style and passion are so refreshing. Most importantly I agree with him on many issues. "

jwk wrote on Apr 22, 2008 7:36 AM:

" There's not a drop of Truth coming out of "The Clinton's or Barracka Hussein Obama's mouth, nor any difference in their lack of ideas. To be weak on The war on Terror, to Socialize Medicine and to Increase all forms of taxes on ALL of us that pay them, to support and rely on "Illegals votes" simply pushes us back 8 years, stimies Business, employment and the economy, increases the welfare rolls.Their disdain for our Military can never be a good thing for our country. Sadly in private, they don't Lie about those issues. Ask either of them their take on their energy policies. Think they'd ever support developing our own resources like every other country know to man?? Will $5.00 per gallon get anybody motivated? "

kevin wrote on Apr 22, 2008 11:44 AM:

" Funny election year. I have enjoyed this election more than any recent ones. (I don't think I will be laughing come November though...). I especially like the blog comments from Liberals complaining about the Clintons and how the "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy" was actually correct all along. Of course the Libs didn't recognize the Clintons pettyness and thuggery when it was directed at Republicans. Now it is the same with Obama. Those on the Left (and even a few on the Right) are so mesmerized by Obama's personality, they are unable to see he is no different than the Clinton's.... "

Hear Ye wrote on Apr 22, 2008 12:22 PM:

" Well Kevin please help us poor "liberals" out and explain how Obama and Clinton are the same in relation to pettiness and thuggery. I know many Republicans are VERY familiar with these traits so it should be easy. "

plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Apr 22, 2008 1:11 PM:

" "Hillary type Republicans?????" There's an oxymoron if there ever was one. Interesting to see the Obama supporters quickly covering his tracks now that his liberal elitist viewpoints are coming out. He is a gifted speaker but eventually the real Obama will be revealed. He was on the board of a gun control organization, so we know where he stands on the Second Amendment. Now Hillary is trying to be the Second Amendment champion (now that is really funny, and I sure hope no one falls for that stunt). As for clinging to religion, it does explain Obama's being able to sit through Rev. Wrights's sermons and then deny he heard any of it. He wasn't paying attention!

As for me, I remain unimpressed with any of the three major candidates. The poor range of candidates we now have is a wake up call telling us that we desperately need a viable third party. When you can't see the difference between a donkey and an elephant, it's time for something new - maybe a flamingo? "

napablogger wrote on Apr 22, 2008 11:51 PM:

" pinkflamingos, Hillary type Republicans means that they are doing the same things, practicing what Hillary referred to as the "politics of personal destruction". Hillary we know how bad she got the last two weeks, and the Republicans are pretty much the same against Obama. I just read tonight that Floyd Brown, the conservative operative that did the Willie Horton ads, is starting a group to put the hit out on Obama. He said that Hillary just didn't raise Obama's negatives enough, so experts like him are going to have to finish the job apparently. Gee, wonder what they will use against Obama? I bet it will be....soft on terrorism. I know that due to my psychic abilities:) There is no concern with the truth with these types of people, so I am sure they will be able to make something up. The Republicans, shall we say the Rove Republicans, have become like what they hate, the Clintons. Opportunists willing to say anything to acheive their goals. I put Limbaugh in that camp too, especially since he started the movement to get Republicans to vote for Hillary. This is why I like Obama. Pinkflamingo, Obama is not lying, he does not hide the fact that he is a liberal. That is why I included that line in my article, because the other attack is going to be that, he is a liar. This is why I like Obama, he is trying to change the terms of the debate away from all the scorched earth moralism of the baby boomers. This election is really about generational change, not race, sex, or terrorism. "

napablogger wrote on Apr 22, 2008 11:57 PM:

" The other thing I was going to mention is that Republicans are going to start Muslim baiting and race baiting with Obama too, we will be hearing them say his middle name over and over. Then I noticed someone had lalready done it on this thread, jwk. Can you explain to me how a middle name is a qualification or not to be President? Cause if you can't then saying his middle name like that is trash talk and dirty politics. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. Look for the GOP swift boat hit teams to use the Hussein middle name over and over in an attempt to character assasinate him, all the while complaining about how awful the Clintons are. I will be so glad when we grow up past this and actually start to talk about real issues. I do feel that Obama is sincerely trying to do that. Whether he will make it or not is another question. "

plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Apr 23, 2008 1:26 PM:

" napablogger:
I didn't accuse Obama of being a liar, I said that his extreme liberal views are now coming out. He did backpedal on the guns and religion comment, which I consider an attempted cover-up. He is running like the Clintons always do, pretending to be a moderate (example, Hillary positioning herself as the Second Amendment champion and shooting birds) but once elected they turn left so fast you would think they had cell phones in their ears while driving.

I do agree that the mudslinging is way over the top, viciously coming from all sides. However, I recently read a book about the 1800 presidential election (yeah, I'm a history nerd) and it was interesting that many of the same things done today (i.e. swiftboating, track covering, etc.) were done back then, and they were really good at it, too! They just didn't have computers to make it faster and bigger. But after all is said and done, this primary stuff is highly entertaining to watch. "

russ wrote on Apr 23, 2008 4:37 PM:

" Michael, sorry, but you just don't get it with Obama. He incinerated his chances with the folks in the Heartland. Rev. Wright, "clinging to religion and guns", his friend the terrorist, and his perceived "elitism" have cooked his goose. It has nothing to do with Republican attacks or dirty politics or Hillary Clinton. The more folks have learned about Obama the less they like him.

As I have often said, the November election will be decided in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Indiana, Florida, Minnesota, and Missouri. McCain will win at least 5 of these states. The fat lady is warming up for Pres. McCain.

Mr. Obama's presidential chances died in Pennsylvania on April 22. "

napablogger wrote on Apr 23, 2008 10:57 PM:

" pinkflamingo, you are correct, I apologize. I went back and looked at what you wrote and realized that when you said that the real Obama was coming out that I took that to mean you thought he was lying. Thanks for the explanation. I don't agree that his liberalism is just now coming out, it has always been there but perhaps people are just learning about it now. I have seen that he does have a practical side though and is not dogmatic, say about health care and his recognition that mandatory universal health care won't work, unlike Hillary who has a more liberal position on that. "

napablogger wrote on Apr 23, 2008 11:02 PM:

" Russ, you may be right, in fact in the end I may end up voting for McCain myself. But I love the fact that Obama is at least trying to elevate our political discussion and I am starting to believe that he is a sincere person. I do not believe he is an elitist, I think he has genuine empathy for people. Of course, I think that about Bush too but look what happened to him, it didn't make much difference. The thing of it is too, the more people learn about any politician the less they like them. They are all human, and it will be compared to what. There are some rather unlikeable things about McCain that could come out too, actually will come out, including the usual exaggerations. So, we will see. I think most elected Presidents tend to move to the center after they are elected, if for no other reason than that they have to. I think some of Obama's moderation is him realizing other people's points of view are correct or at least are the prevailing ones and not worth fighting. "

plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Apr 24, 2008 8:46 AM:

" napablogger,
I do have to admit that Obama has provided fresh air to the primaries, and while he is very liberal (I would not vote for him) I agree that in office he would likely be more practical, while Hillary would be more dogmatic. Obama gets people to "want" to follow him, unlike other candidates whose followers feel like they "have" to follow theirs for party or ideological reasons. If Obama had not jumped in as a candidate, we would already be in the McCain/Clinton election doldrums. Sound awfully boring, doesn't it?

However, my ideal candidate would be a strong and respectable libertarian candidate. Unfortunately, libertarians are often seen as sideline wackos. What I want to see is a Libertarian Obama, and I don't care if that person is male/female/black/white/Hispanic. Now that would be fun to watch!
ppflamingo "

napablogger wrote on Apr 24, 2008 12:41 PM:

" pink flamingo, I pretty much agree with you. I am basically a libertarian myself, the problem I have with it is that they seem to get just as dogmatic as everyone else. Mainly I am pragmatic, lets do what works. I loved Ron Paul but back to the gold standard? That is so impractical at this point. If we could just cut back on some government spending at this point it would be a miracle, and McCain is saying it, will he do it once he gets in office? It will be hard. "

plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Apr 24, 2008 10:13 PM:

" When two libertarians meet, they have a verbal contest to see who is more libertarian. One of the reasons libertarians get a bad name is that many of them think that without government regulation they can do whatever they want, and some of them don't have any self discipline. To me, the libertarian mantra is Personal Freedom, Social Responsibility. You have to have both, and in equal measure. That's why I don't hold a lot of hope for libertarianism. There are not enough people who have the Social Responsibility part understood. This comes from FDR's social programs that started people going down the road of government coddling from cradle to grave. Why be responsible, let the government take care of it. "

dellasumbrella wrote on Apr 25, 2008 10:01 AM:

" napablogger:
I'm coming into this discussion late; just want to say I appreciated your sharp rebuke of the playground politics that have been encouraged more and more over the years. Whoever can shout the loudest, talk the meanest, insult the deepest, and lie the best, wins. And I agree with you that Obama, who is trying his best not to play dirty, has a penchant for honesty, not to mention talking to people as equals and not pandering to the lowest common denominator. (What he said about bitterness, etc. was clearly NOT insulting or patronizing. He was voicing what people are feeling, even if some want to twist the intent into something else.) "

sickothis wrote on Apr 25, 2008 11:41 AM:

" John Sidney McCain - isn't Sidney a girl's name. So John McCain is really a girl! "

napablogger wrote on Apr 25, 2008 12:25 PM:

" sickofthis, and wasn't McCain born in a foreign country? That means he is a communist right? I mean, he spent a lot of time in a communist country at one point. Vietnam that is. OK, he was a prisoner but you know how they indoctrinate everyone. It will all come out after the election, look out! This is the level of logic that the Clinton-Rove section of American politics has come down to with Obama. "

sickothis wrote on Apr 25, 2008 1:31 PM:

" NB - Exactly. Ridiculous. "

plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Apr 25, 2008 1:32 PM:

" sickothis:

Sidney is usually a boy's name.

Sydney is usually a girl's name.

I said usually, I'm sure there are many exceptions.

plasticpinkflamingo is ?? "

plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Apr 25, 2008 1:48 PM:

" Sorry nb & sickothis:

I was busy standing motionless out on the front lawn and slow on the uptake that this was a joke!
Now I get it! "

napablogger wrote on Apr 25, 2008 4:09 PM:

" plasticpinkflamingo, going back to your earlier comment, your description of libertarian with social responsibility could well better describe a Republican, give or take an issue or two depending on how you define liberty. That is why I am a Republican. "

napablogger wrote on Apr 25, 2008 4:16 PM:

" thanks dellasumbrella, one thing I find interesting in all this that I have already alluded to is that there is an interesting convergence between part of the Republican party and the Clintions. Terry McAuliffe has praised Fox news so much they are now using one of his statements as a promo for the network! McAuliffe is a close friend of the Clintons and a spokesperson for them. Fox used to hate the Clintons, as did Rush who is now pumping them up. All agree they want to crush Obama, talk about strange bedfellows. What the real dichotomy is now is not right-left but past-future. Obama represents the politics of the future, the trash talk spinners are the past. I hope Obama is able to push past all this and survive. "

glenroy wrote on Apr 25, 2008 6:33 PM:

" We’d all be better off if Obama could find a real private sector tax paying job so he can give whatever he wishes to whom ever he wishes, and let us spend our money as we see fit...there is nothing in the IRS tax code that denies anyone wishing to pay more taxes from doing so...if all these 'big idea liberals' want to pay for their 'make work projects'...pay it yourselves and be done with it.

"

sickothis wrote on Apr 25, 2008 10:03 PM:

" Glenroy - please explain the successes of GWB for us and why we should be compelled to "stay the course." "

sickothis wrote on Apr 25, 2008 10:06 PM:

" Oh - and Glenroy - defend the fact that every un-insured person in the US costs us (that do pay) $1000 in premiums. Didn't know that little tidbit, did ya? "

plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Apr 25, 2008 11:47 PM:

" glenroy,
Many times I have suggested to my socialist acquaintances that if they want these expensive government programs they should pay the increased taxes to support them, and let the rest of us opt out. Of course those of us who opt out would never be able to use those programs, but I'm willing to make a lifetime legal commitment to that. However, none of these socialist types seemed interested in that idea - they all wanted me to join in and pay even if I didn't want the program and would never use it.

napablogger,
Yes that could also apply to a Republican - except that I believe we can do better with a whole lot less government. Unfortunately the Republicans have not stuck to their beliefs and have become the 'spend and spend' party in contrast to the 'tax and spend' Democrats. There's not much difference because we end up paying either way. The Republicans have caved in to the big government faction. Go to your favorite search engine (I prefer Dogpile over Google) and ask for Jefferson Classic Liberal. That pretty much describes what I believe government should be (and not be). "

russ wrote on Apr 26, 2008 8:11 AM:

" Did anyone notice the news release, Thursday, that North Korea and Syria had built a plutonium reactor in Syria, with North Korean consultants, scientists and technology? This is the same nuclear reactor destroyed by Israel on Sept 7, 2007.

Was this the same Syria, whose leader Assad, was recently visited by Nancy Pelosi and Jimmy Carter? The same Syria which is allied with the predominately Shia nation of Iran?

Who will best protect the United States in coming years as president? Should the US maintain a strong presence in the Middle East? Should the US exit the region and bring our troops home?

Why has Hillary Clinton suddenly begun talking tough regarding Iran? Should Barack Obama go to Teheran to talk to Ahmadinijhad and to Damascus to talk to Assad, in his diplomatic offensive?

Should the US be tough toward Iran? Should we tell Iran that we will not allow nuclear weapons in their country? Should the US and Israel obliterate Iran's nuclear capability?

Who do we trust to make these decisions? Who has the experience?

"

sickothis wrote on Apr 26, 2008 3:26 PM:

" Oooooh. The Boogymen. Be afraid. Be very very afraid. "

napablogger wrote on Apr 26, 2008 7:01 PM:

" russ, very good questions, questions that I hope each voter will ponder deeply.

I would add, did Bush protect the US when he invaded Iraq, or not? Does protecting the US always mean invading other countries or going to a military solution, or are we better protected by diplomacy or reaching out to people who we don't agree with or even abhor? Or, are we better protected by doing both depending, and are we better protected by a President willing to do both?

Is a better idea sometimes to risk a military build up from a hostile power in the hopes that talking and diplomacy later will bridge the gap, or is it better to shoot first and talk later?

Is it better to pick a President who is kind of green and lacks sophistication in economic matters but who will bring a whole new generation into participation in the Democratic process, and make a whole lot of people who feel disenfranchised brought into the fold and become participants in a new, better, world?

And finally, is it worth reading a blogger who just polished off a whole bottle of wine on a lazy Sunday afternoon and is waxing philosophic?

Only the steam bunny knows.... "

plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Apr 26, 2008 7:11 PM:

" russ,
It just goes to prove that JimmyC. is being duped and used by these people. They know he makes them look respectable on the world stage during their 15 minutes of fame. Then when JimmyC. has sung 'Kumbaya' with them and gone home, they go back to their usual dastardly deeds.

I believe that JimmyC. sincerely believes that he is doing some good, but someone should clue him in that he is just being used by these thugs. There are some people out there who will hate us no matter what we do. If we stayed home and did nothing they will hate us. If we go and talk nicely with them they will hate us. If we give them billions of dollars of foreign aid they will still hate us.

I said in a previous post that the ideal foreign policy would be to know who we can talk to and come to an honorable agreement with, and who we have to get tough with. So far, no nation in history has ever figured out how to do that on a consistent basis. Neither the donkeys or the elephants have ever done it, but every election cycle we have both sides telling us they will do it. They just don't get around to telling us how. "

kdbk wrote on Apr 26, 2008 11:12 PM:

" I hope Michael Haley, Hear Ye etc. get their way. I hope that Obama takes the nomination. It will be great to watch him get squashed in November by a decent, yet not even that-great-a-candidate in McCain on the Republican side. Obama supporters are really amusing. They don't understand how his ideology and history of dubious associations will bring the Democrat party a gruesome landslide defeat in November.

Perhaps funniest of all is how the Democrats like to suggest that a McCain Presidency will be a "3rd Bush term". Are they kidding? McCain has been one of the toughest Republican critics of President Bush. While I didn't always agree with his criticisms, he is truly a politician most independent of the Bush Doctrine. But let the Democrats take such desperate, hopeless strategies in to November. They will not like the results, but the country will be better off. "

Hear Ye wrote on Apr 27, 2008 12:05 AM:

" I don't know if you have been paying attention but McCain has fallen in line with the Republicans. He's ready to stay the course on nearly all the major issues people have with Bush. "

napablogger wrote on Apr 27, 2008 10:50 AM:

" kdbk, I think you have to realize that McCain's history and ideology are equally disagreeable to just as many people on the other side.

Each side exaggerates the negatives of the other, conservatives with their same old mantra, too liberal, soft on terror, will cut and run on the war, etc. I think Obama has shown some moderation, that his involvement with the local left wing church was a way to be part of his community because that is the way a lot of black people feel.

What he is known for is telling the black community that they have to be responsible for themselves. Who better positioned to do that than Obama? And etc, it is not so cut and dried as the extremist on both sides are going to try to depict it.

Hopefully when the Democratic nomination is over, we will have a debate between Obama and McCain focused on the issues. "

russ wrote on Apr 27, 2008 2:16 PM:

" I say that a boogeyman making plutonium in in his own reactor and who has medium to long range missile capability is a real boogeyman. To ignore a threat like this would be liberal folly and danger to America. "

badlandgrl wrote on Apr 27, 2008 7:07 PM:

" I come from a small town in middle America and I take offense to Obama's comments.
I was raised a Christian and we went to church, not because we were bitter or lacking employment, we went because we believe in God and love the fellowship of our friends and neighbors.
I was raised to hunt, not to cling to guns because I am bitter, but because you never know when I might need to use one to protect myself or to feed my family.
Obama's comments just proved to me what an elitist and unqualified person he is and the fact that all you "California Democrats" are eating it up makes me sick to my stomach to be even thought of being like you because I reside here now.
If you people think everyone who comes from a small town, where jobs are few and far between, is bitter, then maybe you should get out and check out the rest of the country. You people don't know @*!% "

plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Apr 27, 2008 8:42 PM:

" Bravo, badlandgrl! Well said! "

sickothis wrote on Apr 27, 2008 9:12 PM:

" Well, badlandgrl, we Californians actually know enough to take Obama's comments in context and in totality and to analyze the concepts as well as the words. Guess what - he was right. You cling to those endearing traits. Oh - there's room for you in Montana. "

kevin wrote on Apr 27, 2008 10:24 PM:

" Right on badlandgirl! You are exactly right why most God fearing Americans found Obama's condesending comments offending. The longer the Democrat contest continues, the worse Obama looks. Now he appears stading at a gas station making the assinine statement that he is going to lower gas prices by raising taxes on oil companies. He makes John McCain look like a genius... "

napablogger wrote on Apr 27, 2008 10:46 PM:

" Look, I have sat through too many conversations with people in "middle America" with all of my relatives and friends to not know that a lot of them do have that attitude. You are making the mistake of assuming that Obama's comments apply to everyone in middle America. Not so, he was talking about some whites in Penn and Indiana who would vote for Hillary over him, and why. There is a lot of racism out there, and he was actually giving them an excuse for their attitudes.

You yourself seem to be assuming that everyone in California looks down on small town middle Americans, yet immediately you got several people agreeing with you. Is it you who are making sweeping statements? I don't think so actually, and if I did then I would be making the same mistake that you are making with Obama.

Let me guess. You already didn't like Obama anyway, correct? "

napablogger wrote on Apr 28, 2008 1:26 AM:

" that last post was for kdbk, and by the way, did you see that 12% of white voters in Pennsylvania admitted that Obama's race was a factor in them voting for Hillary. 12% is how many actually admitted it. Those are the people who Obama was talking about. "

plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Apr 28, 2008 1:54 AM:

" napablogger:

Since I lived the first 67% of my life in the heartland before coming to CA I feel qualified to speak on how many of us feel.

Religion and guns have been an integral part of the lives of middle Americans for decades and that includes the time when jobs in the steel mills and industrial areas were plentiful. The fact that jobs are not so plentiful now probably does have them feeling bitter at the senseless stripping away of American jobs. But religion and guns were there before, they are there now, and they will be there in the future (unless the socialists have their way). So why did he make that point? He said it to some people in SF because that's what he knew they wanted to hear. The SF socialists look down upon middle America with disdain. badlandgrl and kevin perfectly described why middle America is offended.

nb, we have traded posts about Obama, and I agreed that he has added interest to a primary contest that would otherwise have been incredibly dull and boring. I agreed that he would likely be more practical than Hillary in office. I even said he gets people to want to like him, and on a personal level I can appreciate that. It is hard to truly dislike him personally. However I think he would be a disaster for our country as president. He is waaaay too far left for me to consider voting for him, and those comments bring that out. So to answer your question, I do not dislike Obama but I would not vote for him, before or after he made those comments. But that doesn't make our response to his comments wrong. "

Hear Ye wrote on Apr 28, 2008 6:07 AM:

" Wow Badlandgrl, way to miss the point on what Obama said. If you only believe the spin that his opponents tried to put on his statements then sure it looks like it could be offensive however free thinkers are able to understand what he said and it makes an awful lot of sense. Don't let the pundits force feed you. "

kevin wrote on Apr 28, 2008 9:14 AM:

" Speaking of the "truth", now that Reverend Wright has gone on a speaking tour to "clairify" his statements, which ones exactly does Obama disagree with? That the government invented AIDS to kill blacks? How about the government invented crack cocaine to addict blacks? Maybe that the goverment should appologize to Japan for Hiroshima? Wright is a lunatic and Obama has followed him for 20 years, that the bottom line... "

plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Apr 28, 2008 10:02 AM:

" sickothis:
Regarding 'clinging to religion and guns', you said "we Californians actually know enough to take Obama's comments in context and in totality and to analyze the concepts as well as the words."

Exactly in what context could those words change their meaning? They seem pretty straightforward.

Same question for HearYe, when you said "free thinkers are able to understand what he said and it makes an awful lot of sense."

I just don't see how his words about religion and guns can be taken in any context that would mean anything else.

Those of you who have never actually lived in middle America do not realize that the Democratic party is vastly different there than it is here. Obama's error was in speaking SF Democrat and the words got out to middle America Democrat. There is no "context" defense that I can see. "

Sickothis wrote on Apr 28, 2008 10:44 AM:

" Excerpts: OBAMA: So, it depends on where you are, but I think it’s fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people are most cynical about government...Here’s how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long. They feel so betrayed by government that when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn’t buy it. And when it’s delivered by — it’s true that when it’s delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama, then that adds another layer of skepticism...But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there’s not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Again - even THAT is excerpted. The context was a Sunday New York Times article implying racial overtones that PA whites don't want to vote for a black guy. "

Sickothis wrote on Apr 28, 2008 10:45 AM:

" plasticpinkflamingo - Karl Rove's playbook: Guns, Gays and God. "

plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Apr 28, 2008 1:15 PM:

" I didn't see the context changing anything of the meaning. As for Karl Rove, all I can say is, "well there you go again". "

Hear Ye wrote on Apr 28, 2008 4:26 PM:

" I didn't perceive him to be saying the only reason people hunt or go to church is because they are bitter. To me he was speaking politically, that some people cling to traditional issues like the second amendment and religion even when it is their financial status and the economy that need the most improvement in their lifes. The promises and failures of previous administrations in this area has driven them to not trust politicians to fix it. I don't know, it seemed pretty clear to me. People who aready dislike Obama are going to spin anything he says as a negative so... "

plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Apr 28, 2008 5:14 PM:

" HearYe gives us a breath of fresh air and puts forth a plausible and thoughtful interpretation (thank you!) that we can examine without the "you took it all out of context" fluff.

HearYe gives a different perspective than what I read into it (I do my own reading and rarely listen to the pundits). I have one question - hope it is reasonable - why would they only cling to guns and religion? There are many things people might cling to, such as property ownership, family, the Democratic Party, their local schools and communities, their automobiles (just roll with me here), their social groups (tavern, fraternal and service lodges, etc.) and I could go on but you get the drift. I'm curious why Obama specifically picked guns and religion. Even in the heartland, not everyone is a gun owner and/or regular churchgoer.

You are correct that I will not be voting for Obama, for political and not racial reasons. I do not dislike Obama personally, and I want to learn what the opposition has to say, and what they really mean when they say it. After all, there is a good chance that he may become the next president. Alas, I have not found anyone to be "for" yet, so I can't learn about and analyze what they would say. I'll know it when I hear it. "

badlandgrl wrote on Apr 28, 2008 6:53 PM:

" I do understand what he is saying and to generalize this particular group of people is as ignorant as it would be to say that all black people believe in what Rev. Wright believes. Maybe all you "California Democrat" need to go to middle America, check out these great people, who work hard, and go to church, and practice what they preach instead of believing what you hear out of the mouth of someone who comands a salary that could feed dozens of people. You tell me then, when you have walked a mile in their shoes, and yet are not bitter, but very proud to be an American and not ashamed to show it! I don't care what you think of my comments, you people mean nothing to me. Now those hardworking Americans and the men and women who are fighting so people like you can vote for a man that seriously is ignorant about what make the heart of America beat, now those people are worth listening to!

Californian's are not the only educated people in this country and to be honest the educational system in this state is pathetic. I home school my children, hold down a full time job and guess what? My children will be ready to graduate at 16 with honors, knowing full well how to debate with the likes of "California Democrats". They were taught the building blocks of this country, along with several languages and religion. So don't try to insult people whom you think come from so little as being unable to think. "

russ wrote on Apr 28, 2008 7:57 PM:

" Barack Obama's chances of being elected have been incinerated by Rev. Wright. Obama has 0.0000001% chance of becoming president.

The good folks in the Heartland are shocked and horrified by the racist and bizarre exaggerations of Jeremiah Wright who has damaged his black community for a decade or more.

I like Barack Obama from what I have seen of him. I have said here that Obama has very appealing Reaganesque qualities, but I strongly disagree with his liberal policies that would make the government responsible for taking care of all people.

"

Hear Ye wrote on Apr 28, 2008 10:28 PM:

" Badlandgrl-

So you don't care about anyone that doesn't fall in line with your value and belief system. hmmm... yet you dislike Obama for what you believe to be his similar stance. Also, I didn't see anyone ripping on middle americans. Of course their is amazing Americans all over the country. To be honest I'm not sure who you were addressing or what your point was.

Plasticpinkflamingo-

I think he referred to those issues because they are generally big issues (why? I don't really know). All I know is the Republicans always push these two issues in the heartland and the Democratic hopefuls always try to kinda push their way in and say "hey were down with that too".

I know everyone isn't going to like Obama but I guess I just wish it was more issue related. I rarely here people say they wouldn't vote for him because of their stance on the economy, abortion, trade, foreign policy, civil unions/gay marriage, and so on and so forth (and I realize that there are plenty of you out there). Some people literally wouldn't consider voting for him because they think he is a Muslim, terrorist, hates America, his pastors youtube clips, his neighbor/charity board colleague, "bittergate", flag lapel. I mean, it's absurd to me. I don't agree with McCain on most issues. I don't care about hi wifes former painkiller addiction or his lobbyist girlfriend or whatever stupid thing gets dug up. I didn't flip my lid when he kept saying Iran trained al-qaeda and had to be corrected by Leibermann. Although his age could be of concern for some people. Barring an extreme character flaw or moral lapse I'd like to see people really research the issues and form a solid educated opinion. "

jwk wrote on Apr 29, 2008 7:34 AM:

" Why is it so shocking!! Everyone should know that there's not a drop of truth in either The Clinton or Hussein Obama camp. How about they Make Jimma Carter "Secretary of State". ANd Reverend not Wright an ambassador. Then you would really have The Wacked, The Nut job and The Ugly!! "

glenroy wrote on Apr 29, 2008 6:40 PM:

" sickofthis..you want failed government programs explained?....we can kill two birds with one big oblivious stone.

The relevant question is to point out a social welfare government program that has had any measurable success. Since 1965 we’ve spent over one trillion dollars on utopian poverty ending make work programs without reducing the poverty rate a single point. Looking back, as predicted these programs condemned millions to life long poverty by rewarding each teenage pregnancy, merely condition upon remaining unwed. Leading liberals and conservatives suggested the monies would be better spent focusing on aptitude based educational programs, including skill training and small business ownership for the motivate, but the ‘intellectuals’ knew better besides for those seeking office a handout always gets more votes than a hand. This is basic stuff...teach them to fish for life or plan on handing out fish every day hoping they’ll figure it out. The magnitude of this ongoing failure dwarfs military expenditures, these programs which were suppose to remain under 15% of the federal budget are now 65% and growing. So our federal government, largely controlled by the Democrat Party is practicing fiscal bankruptcy... and now would like to double the size of this mess....

Perhaps you’ve not notice GWB is retiring.

We hear whining liberals complain about the billions the WOT has cost ...well what about the trillion plus spent on pet programs which dwarf military expenditures without measurable result....at least our military provides for our safety, freedom to millions and hope to all the oppressed regardless of social status... as opposed to generational poverty and despair.

"

misfit wrote on Apr 29, 2008 11:07 PM:

" The point Obama making is that, people will point the finger and hold on to issues dear to them when, the real issues are so much larger...The
War, the Economy, Healthcare. When we are feeling insecure in these areas we will use our fears about losing our guns, or immigrants, or homosexuality as a way to feel some control in our lives. It is obvious even here in Napa, when reading the postings to these articles that there is a lot of fear and anger.
Rather than hold the administration accountable as we should for the horrible situation they have gotten our country into, we vote against our own best interests. We think the Republican party, with their fear mongering and anti-gay, pro-life, pro-gun, Bible thumping rhetoric somehow, is where we should focus our frustrations. Realize this people, they are not for you. They are simply for making themselves wealthier. We are NOTHING to them. They know that keeping us afraid, keeps them in power. It's as simple as that. Look outside of your own personal issues and see the broader picture of what is happening to us all.
It's no surprise that the wealthy are getting wealthier and the middle class has all but become extinct. Now you worry about illegal immigrants taking your jobs when most of the real paying jobs have been shipped overseas??? That's an example of what Obama meant. Let go of the fear that paralyzes you and become part of a larger world. Stop listening to the hate mongers and embrace the kind of change that just might give us hope again. It is worth the risk. Don't let your fears allow you to paint Obama as a bad person. "

misfit wrote on Apr 29, 2008 11:13 PM:

" Glenroy...If nothing else, those program's intent was good. Money sent to Iraq in order to make the wealthy, wealthier is only blood money. Bush, Cheney, Rove...all of those crooks have blood on their hands. They should be in prison so, quit blaming Democrats and liberals. We are living the result of a capitalistic society right now. Do you really think you are one of them? Do they give a rip about you? You too can continue to vote against your best interests and continue to worry that someone else is getting more than you. Why not just have gratitude for what you DO have and shut up! "

Misfit wrote on Apr 30, 2008 7:01 AM:

" Does anyone remember the Tuskegee Study, where a large number of black men were supposed to be being treated for Syphillus. Instead they were not given medication so that they could be studied as to the progression of syphillus. This study lasted over 40 years. Maybe Reverand Wright isn't so far off with the AIDs thing. Don't put anything past our government. Do you really believe we only where the white hats? How naive. "

plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Apr 30, 2008 7:11 AM:

" Misfit says: "We are living the result of a capitalistic society right now." and "Why not just have gratitude for what you DO have and shut up!"

Pure Marxist drivel. In case you haven't heard, that experiment failed a long time ago.

I am grateful for what I have, but that does not mean I will shut up. That's what the socialists want the peasants to do. Don't say anything, we will protect you from all those evil rich people. Don't have any desire to better yourself, we will take care of you. We know what is best for you. Blah blah blah.

I am not wealthy and probably am barely middle class, at least in terms of California living. But I will not submit to the idea that a group of socialist elites knows better than I do about how I should live. I'm not going to just sit there and be taken care of by the government.

Being wealthy does not automatically make you an evil person. Some are, some are not. I know I'm not wealthy but I would rather have some hopes and aspirations to better myself, rather than just sit there and wait for my government bureaucrat to give me my government handout.

And you say the government's "intent" was good when they came up with one after another worthless social program that failed??? I am supposed to pay tax $$$ because their "intent" was good? Any further comment I make about that idea will never clear the NVR Moderator.

This is proof that we need a strong and viable libertarian movement, and we need it now. The Dems and Repubs don't have a fresh idea between them. "

jwk wrote on Apr 30, 2008 7:16 AM:

" Thank you Glenroy!! Misift and Sicko just can't get over the fact that they lost 8 years ago and with Blessings, Wisdom and Common sense Americans will not elect a negative whiner, with a cut and run mentality, with nothing good to say about our troops or America for that matter. In case the Bush haters haven't noticed, Rove is no longer running the show as they say. The real problems with our economy have started when the Dem's took over congress. Check out the stats. Oil prices and interest rates high skyrocketed with Pelosi and Reid running the show and The Dem's having the majority in the house and senate. It's amazing how they continue to try to destroy the economy only for the good of their party's interest. Wish they would of caught "The Pres" reaming these negative obstructionist who pee and moan about the economy and then vote against and fight any measure that will help improve and resolve the current issues at hand..For the record, OBAMA is the most radical Leftist and scarist person ever running for The Oval office. "

plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Apr 30, 2008 7:43 AM:

" I don't understand. On one hand you are telling us that the government has good intentions for their social programs, then you bring up the Tuskegee Study. Should we consider that proof of the good intent built into government social programs?

If we are a government of the people, then "I have met the enemy and it is us" is surely true. "

misfit wrote on Apr 30, 2008 9:47 AM:

" Any lemming who wants to continue to stay the course and follow Republican leadership right over a cliff...please do and you should be willing to send your kids or yourselves over to Iraq if you feel so strongly that it is the way to go.
Your arguments regarding the waste in government programs loses credibility when the 12 billion borrowed money every month to perpetuate the war and the rebuilding of Iraq is not questioned. The BS about that money supporting the troops is just that. Bringing the troops HOME is the best way to support them. Don't blame the democrats for oil prices when the 2 oil men in the White House are laughing all the way to the bank. Look at the increase in oil prices since Bush took office. That is much more telling. Blind faith in this leadership and your inability to take the blinders off and admit that a mistake was made by letting Bush, Cheney and Rove run roughshod over the American people and the Constitution is repulsive and idiotic. Admit you were wrong! Just look at the facts of where we are as a nation right now. If you still believe that they care about the Amerian people you are as bad as those crooks and you know they will burn someday...that is if you are the religious type. "

glenroy wrote on Apr 30, 2008 10:04 AM:

" Misfit….detecting a little nastiness….not to worry, most on the left worship big government, and when the government is under attack from the ‘subjected ruled’ it naturally causes the disciples emotional hardship.

... now you want me to explain criminals in public office?...OK… since Watergate over 75% of convicted congressional members were Democrats, 90% of those sentenced to federal prison were…you guessed it…Democrats. As there is no statute for murder, Ted Kennedy can and should still be charged with manslaughter…Murtha should have been indicted in ABSCAM and remains listed as an ‘un-indicted coconspirator’ to this day, he avoids clearing his name because it would no doubt release volumes of damming evidence. Obama should be under criminal investigation for accepting campaign funds from radical Islamists…both his ‘fathers’ were devote followers of Osama bin laden’s mentor Said bin.. words matter right? Obama’s mentor, Jive talking Willie, is an admitted Black Liberation Theologist.… like Looney Louie’s Black Muslims both cults advocate God killing all white people and should God choose not to… then what? Now, I have olive skin as does one of my three daughters, at least in the summer so we could probably play both sides… but it would only be over my dead body.

We have no problem helping the poor or down on luck…we donate a far higher percentage of income than 99% of your party…a faith thing. Where we have a problem is paying the salaries of career incompetents and government waste. Since your party is more dependant upon government jobs, well it just works out that way doesn’t it?

There is nothing wrong with capitalism that cannot be overcome through hard work, honesty and most especially reciprocal kindness…try it sometime.

"

glenroy wrote on Apr 30, 2008 10:06 AM:

" Jwk... you’re very welcome…and the same for your posts. "

plasticpinkflamingo wrote on Apr 30, 2008 11:05 AM:

" misfit:
I thought we were going to have a nice chat about the wonderful government programs, instead of the usual party-line rant about oil.

Bring in Iraq as our 51st state! "

Hear Ye wrote on Apr 30, 2008 12:22 PM:

" What happened in here? There is some comments in here that make Limbaugh and O'Reilly look like reasonable people. Scary thought that there are people out there with this twisted mindset. "

kevin wrote on Apr 30, 2008 2:54 PM:

" Funny that you mention O'reilly. I thought Obama (and Clinton) wouldn't appear on Fox News because it was "biased"? What changed? BTW, what a hoot hearing Ross McGowen on Fox Network, in an effort to separate his network from Fox News, when"accused" of being "fair and balanced" (re the Limbaugh article in the San Francisco Chronicle) he actually went so far as to DENY being fair and balanced! LOL. "

Hear Ye wrote on Apr 30, 2008 3:48 PM:

" Hilarious! You Limbaugh Listeners are a riot. He was certainly separating himself from Fox News and mocking them and Limbaugh at the same time. A far cry from denying being fair and balanced. "

misfit wrote on Apr 30, 2008 5:11 PM:

" Bin Laden's mentor??? Who was holding hands with the Bin Ladens on 911? I do believe it was GWB's daddy who was out to lunch with them and who then made sure to have them chauffeured out of our country safely when no one else could fly. You think I'm nasty? Just look at your vice president. He's as heartless as they come. Now, that is nasty. These people would spit on you, deny you your constitutional rights and you wannabes think you're in the club?
Anyway, I could care less regarding how many of what party have gone to jail for what. I dislike politicians. I am simply for our government being "By the people and FOR the people", something our leaders and some of their constituents have forgotten along the way. "

misfit wrote on Apr 30, 2008 5:14 PM:

" BTW...This country LOST 8 years ago. "

napablogger wrote on Apr 30, 2008 6:56 PM:

" Boy, I should check in here more, things are still going. I think Misfit nailed it when he/she said: " The point Obama making is that, people will point the finger and hold on to issues dear to them when, the real issues are so much larger...The
War, the Economy, Healthcare.

Unfortunately I don't agree with much else from you, Misfit. One thing is that Republicans are not interested in wealth for themselves any more than Democrats. The truth is that all of us basically want the same things, but we disagree about the way to get there, the policies that will work. Everyone wants starving people to be fed, health care to be affordable, everyone to have a good paying job, and there to be no war. Anyone disagree with any of that? How to get there is the dispute, not the goals.

It's weird, I feel that Republicans understand liberals very well, but liberals are clueless about Republicans. What I mean is that conservatives understand that liberals are well meaning, they just think that they are misguided. Liberals think that conservatives are greedy and don't care, and that is simply not true. "

kevin wrote on Apr 30, 2008 7:54 PM:

" Bottom line is that Obama is pretty much toast at this point. How pathetic he looked, trying to explain how his "mentor" of 20+ years has changed, yet anyone can youtube Reverend Wright and hear him repeatedly spout the same BS year after year. Looks like Hillary was smart to hang in there... "

glenroy wrote on Apr 30, 2008 9:12 PM:

" Blogger...could be more than a few conservatives were liberals before they entered the world and got a little taste of reality. I gave up trying to make sense of liberal logic after a long and painful political internship with Amnesty International...after a couple years with A I anybody and everybody who could think on their own did the same. It is funny, I suppose if not discouraging at times, how little some people who constantly harp about some of our historical shortcomings do so without a clue...slavery being one, though it exists today in Africa, the Middle East and portions of Asia they seem to think it was an exclusive American tradition, and sadly those who seek to cause us harm around this world play upon this repetitive dogma...it ain't just words.
"

glenroy wrote on Apr 30, 2008 10:30 PM:

" The problem is.. misfit... allusions are not facts...just ranting and raving dogma which in the end is still dogma..As per your comments; bin laden family members, including his eldest son which to Arabs is no small matter, have publicly rebuked all forms of terrorism, his brothers and sisters have actively engaged to support our effort to bring terrorist to justice and they in fact were not involved in anyway with the 9/11 attacks. Your comments implied holding them hostage? As I recall...it wasn’t too long ago you were haranguing the injustice of holding known terrorists captured on the field of battle as ‘hostile combatants...just about any other country would have shot them on the spot.. and they rightly would have been, had they not been handed over to us.

I wanted to add a common point we seem to agree, at least in part...I also could care less which party is in power as long as the hard working average American is the focal point of policy, our difference is government cannot be the provider and after trying for decades it has more than proven incapable. What government can provide is to make sure the opportunity for us to provide for ourselves is there, and at times government has proven it can do that.. As for capitalists....yes sir-ee bob...everybody below the top is exploited big deal, I prefer being exploited at my choice of employer...when the government exploits there is no choice and no freedom of choice and ultimately no prosperity.

By the way...as Kevin points out...Obama is indeed very well done toast.... and it’s all good from here.
"

glenroy wrote on Apr 30, 2008 10:58 PM:

" Way to go 'pinko-flamingo'...there are no better Americans than those who gave more than they took working their way to happiness...which cannot be bought or given at any price and regardless has to come from within. I picked prunes starting at 9 or 10 years old to buy a pair $2.99 Penny’s tennis shoes because by one pair of ‘school shoes’ were $3.99 Penny’s yellowish brownish looking boots...wouldn’t trade any of it if I knew how....Kaiser Steel top hourly wage was under $2.75 an hour then.

As for Limbaugh.....is he was still on the air?....last time I listened to Limbo was 1989 or was that 1988 when he was living in Sacramento driving the libs crazy there too...way-way ahead of his time...the one thing that can be said about him, over every other liberal radio hosts is that none them are anywhere near his popularity or his understanding of world events...none on the left except blow hards and never has beens throwing temper tantrums because no matter what they do, say or try nobody cares and nobody listens.

"

napablogger wrote on Apr 30, 2008 11:35 PM:

" glenroy, watching Wright spout about white racism in America I couldn't help but think that there are blacks in Africa selling off other blacks into slavery today! No comments about that from Wright I suppose.

O'Reilly tonight says he has a big expose on Wright's income on tommorrow. Apparently the guy is mega wealthy. There is no doubt he is one of the most arrogant jerks in history. "

napablogger wrote on Apr 30, 2008 11:41 PM:

" kevin, Obama has taken a big hit, will it kill him? I don't think we know yet. I agreed with something Rush said, that the reason Wright did this is that Obama threatens his game, like crabs in a bucket pulling each other back from escaping. Wright doesn't want Obama to succeed because if he does then Wright loses his platform of blame and his whole schtick of keeping blacks subjugated and blaming America for it. There is some major jealousy pouring out of that dude.

Now that was a pretty bad paraphrase of what Rush said but that is the basic idea, he said it a lot better. "

jwk wrote on May 1, 2008 7:29 AM:

" God will continue to Bless GWB and I thank The Lord that he was in office when 09/11 happened. We know what Bill was doing or should I say getting on at least two occassion that Osama was offered up on a plate. 09/11 should never of happened had he had the guts to actually make a decision that wasn't poll driven or lead like a leader should. So the only one that should go to prison in past administrations would be the lying, IMPEACHED traitor of a President, William J. Clinton. AND it IS the Dem's in the majority that are preventing us from Tapping Anwar and a few other places as well as preventing Nuclear facilities from being built ie; Jane Fonda and CHina Syndrome. But it's nice to know that Hear ye, Sicko and Misfit listen to Rush. Keep on listening maybe the truth will set you free and clear up your mind. I know that truth is hard to except as a Liberal Bush Hater.. "

sickothis wrote on May 1, 2008 12:10 PM:

" Oh my. That's just sad. There is no cure for that. "

glenroy wrote on May 1, 2008 1:14 PM:

" Blogger...are you still supporting Obama? "

savetycoon wrote on May 1, 2008 10:22 PM:

" kevin, I completely agree with you. electing obama would be completely crazy, just for the fact that some one who was raised in a muslim society. and he clearly doesn't like white people, and im not just saying that because im white. because i for one am not raciest, so i don't care if an african american comes into office as long as i am convinced he is going to run this country right. I am just a little hesitant for having him in office. I also don't like the fact that the borders, are still not secured. and i want our troops back as much as anyone, but taking them back isn't the answer, we need to finish what we started. my brother is over there and he agrees that we need to stay over there. I am just alittle weary to have a born muslim be running our country. Just make sure your reasons before you vote, i am personally voting for john maccain to win this election, just because he is the less of two evils. and im not saying that the demacratic party is evil, its just providing world wide coverage is not going about it in the write way. Illegals do not diserve medical coverage, in fact they are draining our economy into the ground. If they want to become apart of our country, do it the legal way. I just want some one who is not going to benifit the illegals. I want a president who will put his or her citizens first before any one who is not suposed to be here. "

napablogger wrote on May 1, 2008 11:52 PM:

" glenroy, I never was supporting Obama, like pinkflamingo I like the guy, I actually think he may have the makings of a great person, but his politics I generally do not agree with. Since I don't have to make up my mind yet I am not going to. I like McCain too but am not super excited by him.

As far as the Wright speech at the Press Club? My thoughts about that, I started to write my blog about it but I have talked about it so much I wrote one on a local issue this week, but it was kind of depressing. I think there is no doubt that Obama has come from that kind of background, but I think as a person he has a good heart and he hasn't stayed there. I think his wife is another Wright, and it is scary how many people believe that kind of black racist tripe. Of course it is scary how many people believe right wing tripe too, like all the stuff about the CFR and the Bilderbergers and all that.

But we will see, I have plenty of time to make up my mind how much Obama is still "clinging" to black liberation theology.

Coon, Obama is not a Muslim, he has been going to a Christian church over twenty years. You are reading too many propaganda emails. If he is a Muslim then we can't hold Wright against him, can we? "

savetycoon wrote on May 4, 2008 11:21 PM:

" napablogger.
no i guess we can't hold that against him. but it is weary to have someone who was raised in indonesia. but i guess that is something that only i worry about. also this man has only been in office, with politics for 2-3 years. that is not nearly enough to be prepared to run a country. Most of my friends, and family havent even heard of this guy, until this elections took place. which also scares me.
and as far as his church goes, he listens to a pastor that doesn't like whites, and he says he doesn't agree with what his pastor says, well then tell me why he has his own children listening to this man, preaching his words, into these kids heads. he obviously agrees to an extent of what this man says about whites. which also makes me weary.
But i guess i only think this way because i am a idiotic 15 year old teennager that clearly doesnt understand anything.... right? "

Hear Ye wrote on May 5, 2008 7:04 PM:

" Savety-

I don't think it has anything to do with not understanding, just a lack of researching. Obama was a State Senator for 8 years and has been a U.S. Senator since 2004. That's much more than 2-3 years.

Also, Obama didn't "grow up" in Indonesia. He spent 4 years living there as a child. And he has never been Muslim.

He also graduated from Columbia University and received a law degree from Harvard.

He is half-white and nothing he has ever done in his life would support any notion that he dislikes white people.

Lack of experience may be a valid argument but let's at least get close to the facts "

savetycoon wrote on May 5, 2008 9:36 PM:

" Hear ye:

The fact is he has a lack of expierience.
And he talks about change, what is he going to change. what makes him differnt than any one else.?
"

Hear Ye wrote on May 6, 2008 7:51 AM:

" Of course, Obama has about twice as much experience in politics as Bush did when he ran and won. So... "

glenroy wrote on May 6, 2008 10:55 AM:

" Obama....has never even had a job in the private sector...excluding a very brief stint as a Soros money margin hustler...like all elitist Democrats he has no practical experience managing anything.... not even a lemonade stand. As a consequence, he lacks the ability to sit down and intelligently discus the needs of the business community, he has no ability to either protect or provide jobs.

Obama moved to Chicago under the pretense of uniting the Dean/moveon/Soros fringe leftwing, while being groomed and packaged as an intellectual moderate. The problem is you can paint a skunk to look like a muskrat, but you can’t hide the stink... This guy is borderline incoherent when discussing issues in an unrehearsed environment... just listen closely, he might not even be marginally better than GWB. Obama’s ‘founders network,’ those who essentially invented his persona grooming him the past 10 years... have nothing to do with, or links to Main Street USA, though it’s a broad spectrum alright led by an extremists from the far right over to the far left starting with Saddam’s former henchmen...Weather Undergrown terrorists...Code Pink ‘pink fruit cakes’ of yesteryear....both Obama’s fathers were radical Islamists...gee, I wonder who Osama endorses?

Outside of these minor flaws...Obama is a perfect candidate for the Democrat Party.....a perfect target for Main St. USA, too.

"

Hear Ye wrote on May 6, 2008 12:35 PM:

" Wow! How refreshing that we still have people that believe that propaganda smear e-mail about Obama. Obama's father was NOT a radical muslim. In fact, he was agnostic. It's really not hard to find the truth. That e-mail has been debunked over and over and over again yet here we are still having to hear this tired diatribe. It's a sad state of our people and politics when one can imply that a vote for Obama is a vote for the terrorist and be dead serious. "

glenroy wrote on May 6, 2008 4:56 PM:

"
Really hear ye ought to read ye and listen ye to the facts ye....Obama’s father(s) weren’t Islamist???? Sure whatever you wish to believe no doubt facts direct from the Liberal University of Hot Coco....No wonder Obama supporters are in the woods about history...his first father was Professor of Islamic Studies who preached Radical Islam and his second father enrolled Obama in a Wahhabi school both are Radical Islamists....furthermore, his mother was a radical wannabe who hated white folks...’there are none so blind as those who will not see’...
"

savetycoon wrote on May 6, 2008 7:40 PM:

" Thank you glenroy, i couldn't have said it better.

and hear ye, No i don't think that obama has twice the expierence as bush, he is alot younger then bush was, and at least we heard of bush before he ran. "

Hear Ye wrote on May 6, 2008 8:54 PM:

" Glenroy-

I don't really know what to tell you. The evidence is all over, look it up. CNN, MSNBC, Sun-Times, NY Times, Washington Post, Snopes (with alot of sources listed) and many others completely debunked everything your saying. I do agree with your last quote though :)

Savety-

Obama held political office roughly twice as long as Bush before a presidential bid. Also, there is a reason you heard of George W Bush before he ran for president. You might have heard of his father? "

plasticpinkflamingo wrote on May 6, 2008 10:31 PM:

" CNN, MSNBC, Sun-Times, NY Times, Washington Post - Oh yes, those are reliable sources of truth . . . "

jwk wrote on May 7, 2008 7:05 AM:

" Yes, The Terroists and Radical Islams ARE publicly and openly pulling for Hussein OBAMA for president. In their eyes, He's one of them. It's a know fact, even in the Liberal Democratic operative papers like the New York Slimes, Washington Post, Clinton News Network, CNBS, LA Times, etc., Not to mention the only one with any truth or balance at all, Fox News. "

jwk wrote on May 7, 2008 7:29 AM:

" Obama has never been a Govenor, had a real job, owned a Business, been in the Armed Forces or ran or managed anything. Not even a Newspaper stand. Ya, that's experience. Far more than Bush huh Hear Ye? "

Hear Ye wrote on May 7, 2008 8:27 AM:

" OMG!! His middle name is Hussein!!!! what has this world come to?

Fox being fair and balanced might be the funniest thing I've read in a long time.

so he wasn't Governor. And? Besides a recent trend it's no prerequisite to be President by any means.

Whats a real job because you don't have to look hard to see Obama taught Constitutional Law, was an associate attorney, worked as a community organizer, was president of the Harvard Law Review.

We all know about Bush and the Armed Forces as well as his business failures prior to politics so...whats your point?

p.s. I can't find anything about terrorists thinking Obama is one of them. hmm "

jwk wrote on May 9, 2008 7:52 AM:

" I do Thank God that Fox news is out there. It shows the truth and is the only paper to offset your "Extremely Liberal Biased Democrat machine papers"and networks. In case you haven't noticed, the truth is out for those who will take their heads out of the sand or somewhere else. Those Dem Papers (Times, Post etc;) are losing Subscribers by the thousands and laying off people left and right. Your bsCNN, bsCBS, bsABC and bsNBC are all losing viewership and ratings equally as well. ALAS, there is a God. Just for the record, OBAMA (who woin't wear a flag or put his hand over his heart) is a complete empty suit and it is showing up daily. The Hill & Bill show have exposed him.. ANd his wife Michelle makes Hillary look like a pleasant and America loving lady. SHe's right there with MRS. Heinz-Kerry. "

Hear Ye wrote on May 9, 2008 8:57 AM:

" JWK-

Most of what you wrote is too funny to even bother responding too. However, when you wrote "those dem papers" you probably failed once again to do any research and figure out that the entire print media industry is in decline. It's not a political thing, it's called the internet. You're willingness to believe those fake e-mails and fear-mongering give a bad name to the many wonderful men and women that call themselves Republican

"

napablogger wrote on May 9, 2008 2:29 PM:

" Hear Ye, way to hang tough. This is the problem with such constant one sided media sources that people listen to, they just get farther and farther out there. It happens to Democrats too.

For the record NY Times, WaPo, CNN, etc all give almost always factual information. Very few major media sources give false information because the rest of the world jumps all over them when they do. Fox News is also nearly always accurate in what they report. They all have biases and that colors what they report and the way they report it, also which stories they choose to report on.

But I think the way that conservatives like Rush Limbaugh and a host of others constantly hammer on the NY Times and other media gives people the false impression that you can't believe anything they say and that is not so.

That is also one of the reasons that I think everyone should regulary read some sites from the opposition side daily. If you don't you have an unbalanced view. I find most people pick a side then only listen to those they agree with. It's a way to make sure you stay uninformed. "

russ wrote on May 9, 2008 7:03 PM:

" Interesting to see the liberal Democrat candidates racing to appear on Fox News in recent weeks...and Hillary Clinton spitting in the eye of MoveOn and Daily Kos.

Fox News is where the FOLKS get their news and opinion, fair and balanced. Check the ratings.

Chris Matthews is pretty entertaining tho' talking to his liberal friends and playing "make believe" over Obama. "

Hear Ye wrote on May 10, 2008 8:47 AM:

" There it is! The ratings argument is probably the weakest argument of them all. I can't even fathom how someone could use ratings to argue the credibility of a news source. I myself occasionally watch fox news for a good laugh or just to get myself frustrated and millions of other people watch to get their news. Sadly, some or many of these people are also terribly mislead and still think Obama is a muslim and refuses to wear a flag pin because he hates America and so on and so forth. One could probably assume that the far majority of the 32 percent of people that still approve of George W. Bush watch Fox News regularly.
I heard American Idol has insane ratings but I don't care what you say, I'll never be convinced that that is where our credible and most talented musicians come from.

"

russ wrote on May 10, 2008 10:58 AM:

" Hear Ye, as usual, you miss the point. Re-read the comment.

Even the liberal candidates are going to Fox!!! To get their message out!

Fox News is where people go to get their news and commentary. Do you disagree?

Liberals have no sense of humor. Always in search of a cause to get angry about. "

Hear Ye wrote on May 10, 2008 3:33 PM:

" Russ-

I read it just fine the first time. This is what you said:

"Fox News is where the FOLKS get their news and opinion, fair and balanced"

I don't disagree with your question in the sense that Fox News does get good ratings. I disagree with the fair and balanced portion of your statement, but now that I know you were joking I'll go find a new cause. Thanks "

russ wrote on May 10, 2008 7:52 PM:

" HYe, I WAS joking but you DID take me out-of-context. Now now, don't pull a "Rev. Wright" on me. "

jwk wrote on May 11, 2008 1:44 PM:

" Ratings and Polls is how The CLintoons and Hussein Obama make their decisions on all matters and what side they choose. And a 32% approval rating is substantially higher than the Democratically controlled congress! I think they are somewhere around 19% to 20%. And Pelosi and Reid's approvals are even lower yet. Bet they'd love The Pres' numbers! Damn, I know those darn facts are always getting in Hereye-haws way "

jwk wrote on May 11, 2008 1:54 PM:

" ANd most all of US Conservatives are in agreement and on the same page AND don't flipflop on our beliefs. The fear mongering, I think is what you call "Losers Syndrome". We unlike you, know the difference between valid and true articles and the Main stream Media's biased BS. The proof really is in the pudding. And I thought I was too funny to respond to??? "

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