" So who is 'Keep Napa Napa' anyway? I received two of their mailers last week. -- When I don't understand the proposition, I vote em down. -- And of course, there are lots of times when I KNOW what they are up to and vote them down. So far, it got a thumbs down. ~Ruff "

" Oil being the key component in the industrial world's economy, why shouldn't the US protect the free flow of trade in this commodity? It's not like there is an alternative choice... "

" What is the color of the grass on your planet!!? No alternative to oil....if we would take the time and energy to integrate other systems over the next few decades...oiluse could drop as alternatives could increase....and by protect, do you mean stomp around the worldlike a spoilt child that had lost it's playthings? It's a shared world, not a U.S. and them world "

" Matt, I'm sure it was convenient, and safe, to be in the reserves and play at soldiering while waiting for that nice military pension. That is until we were invaded on 9/11/2001. Things probably got a little more confusing and a lot scarier for you when you actually had to defend your country. I hope you feel safer back here in Napa; you should. Brave men and women are putting their lives on the line against an enemy that has renewed it's efforts to destroy Western civilization and cast us into the Dark Ages. With oil at $100 a barrel and gas nearing $4 a gallon I'm sure this war isn't an attempt for cheaper oil reserves. "

" steady on there...reservists are much needed....as an individual that served 18 years in the military I have great appreciation for those that were and are reservists. Is the criticism of reservists coming from another that served I wonder. Paddy? And as for nations wanting to place us back in the Dark Ages...let us remember that America as it is now wasn't part of the historical timeframe known as the 'Dark Ages'...that was more of a European thing! If you feel the need to attack an enemy, go live in there part of the world and see how they truly are....I have (as a civilian) and know as many do...most are folks just living their lives like you and I...though many don't have the benefit of writing to the local paper and expressing an opinion like we have here! "

" Hmm, Paddy, that was an interesting- yet totally misguided comment. I actually stayed on as an active reservist about a year longer than I had to precisely because of 9/11; I stayed on even though my four year active drilling enlistment was up. In fact, in late 2001 I volunteered my name on a one-year deployment list to the Indian Ocean in support of operations in Afghanistan. The deployment ended up being cancelled. This isn't a time when going into the Guard and Reserves is a way for the priviliged to stay out of harm's way. I think something like 30%, maybe more, of our forces in Iraq and Afghanistan right now are reservists and national guard. In 1997 I joined the naval reserve for one reason- I didn't need money, I had my bachelor's degree so I didn't need to go to college- I joined at age 27 b/c I hadn't yet served my country in uniform and wanted to. After the draft, just joining up for the reserves was a risk. And by the way "soldier" is the army, "sailor" is the navy. Sounds like maybe you don't know that. "

" Hey Ruff, Keep Napa Napa is, in its words, “a coalition of concerned citizens…” with “…major funding from the Napa Redevelopment Project”- which is the concern proposing the Napa Pipe development. The letter is criticizing is the Responsible Growth Initiative which proposes direct voter approval for major projects that require an exception to long standing growth restrictions, and the initaitive’s sponsors the Citizens for Responsible Growth. There's an in-depth story about the fight on today's (Sunday's) Napa Register Frontpage. "

" Naparian, I think Paddy's reference to the Dark Ages was in regard to the time frame when the Islamofascists were in their ascendency towards world domination. We are not at war with nations, we are at war with a sick ideology that, while (perhaps) not adhered to by "most" Muslims, is unfortunately followed by far too many. I don't have to "go live there" to know they hate us and want us dead. They have made that very clear in their actions and their words. Unlike far too many Americans, I remember 9/11 and I remember that they are the ones who came to this country to kill thousands of innocent men, women and children. It is only due to the efforts and sacrifices by our brave service men and women, we have not had another attack on our soil. "

" Kevin - Bush's war and occupation were obviously successful eh? How much was a barrel of oil in 2000 and how much is it today? How much oil if flowing out of Iraq? Now regarding your comments about 9/11 - do you know why OBL (Who is STILL at large) attacked the US? Because the Saudi's didn't allow him to bring his army in to take Sadaam out of Kuwait and then allowed the US to stay there in "permanent" bases. How many Iraqi's were on those airplanes? Zero. Fifteen of the attackers were from Saudi Arabia, two from the United Arab Emirates, one from Egypt, and one from Lebanon. All protesting US bases on Saudi soil. So calm down with the Islamofascist propaganda. As New York Times columnist Paul Krugman remarked "...there isn’t actually any such thing as Islamofascism — it’s not an ideology; it’s a figment of the neocon imagination. The term came into vogue only because it was a way for Iraq hawks to gloss over the awkward transition from pursuing Osama bin Laden, who attacked America, to Saddam Hussein, who didn’t." "

" Paddy me boy'O', you should get it straight. Reservists make up the most important part of the modern military force of the U.S.A. As an all volunteer force the first people pressed to serve are the reservists filling in the great holes left unfilled by the theorists of a volunteer service, with out them there is no military. They serve in real military operations.
They are the backbone of the current citizen force concept. They actually serve in combat arenas as well as in relief of regular military personnel at home. In the last military conflict allusions to escaping responsibility in combat situations may have been viable but things have changed in the last 30 years. It is an insult to all people who serve especially to those who only stand and wait or those who express views contrary to popular myth that reservists seek safety and a pension.
Today, unlike my generation where the Reserve was used to stay out of harms way, if you are a reservist there is no escaping the call to duty and the inherent dangers of military service and that is as it should be. It is a nice escalation of rhetoric to go from a perceived and unfounded threat to the survival of western civilization but that’s all it is, hollow polemical rhetoric. It is a euphemism used instead of Christianity.
"

" let's get on with Napa, Napa and the deep pockets high rise developer pushing a money agenda for his investors. Some group has parked around 40 million plus in speculative investment money in the property at Napa pipe. Ever wonder who those people might be? Could there possibly be more than just what was paid for the property?

My guess, there is even more behind that to finance such an absurd venture as the one proposed. The new measure aimed at stalling Napa developers in their bid to radically change the face of Napa may not be the best solution but it is one that has my support.

There are at least two weak kneed supervisors scurrying to put a good face on this proposal. The cities of American Canyon and Napa will not benefit from this proposal nor will the County of Napa. Local groups such as the Napa Taxpayers Association will laud it as a revenue cow but it will drain far more resources than it will create. The model of build dwellings to increase the tax base is no longer a viable choice.

The Napa Developers have loaded on their paid local front men in an attempt to give themselves a Napa face but some how I don’t see the mayor from Wal Mart as a viable representative of Napa in this instance.
"

" "kevin", the reason we have no business 'protecting the free flow of trade in this commodity' is that it does not belong to us. Now if the Iraqis were to vote to become the 51st state, then you might have some constitutionally valid answer. OUR military is to protect the United States, not the free flow of oil. Or more straight-forwardly... let the Saudis hire BlackWater themselves. The Saudis CAN AFFORD IT, without US taxpayer subsidies. ~Ruff "

" Sickofthis, The first time I heard the term Islamofascism was not from a neocon, but from a Muslim named Sheikh Abdul Hadi Palazzi. He is a very eloquent man who is against terrorism. He has laid out the history of Islamofascism on a web sight he created. Google his name with "tell the children the truth" and learn something new. "

" "Sandra", I read lots of stuff at the NVR and it struck me just now... Is there a link between wearing Tigger socks and Islamo-fascism? Was Walt Disney secretly an Isalmo-fascist? Is there a secret link between rheumatism and Islamo-fascism? Do the Islamo-fascists have something to do with cheap shoes pinching your feet? Boy, I'd sure like to hear about the international conspiracy of Isalmo-fascists to make American kids wear baggy clothes and get daffy haircuts. Now the Islamo-fascists are undermining Napa County Land-use Policy. Is there NOTHING those fiends won't stoop to? We must be VIGILANT! ;o) ~Ruff "

" Kevin, while I emphatically disagree with your conclusions, I always enjoy your insights. I think I recognize your argument below as a subversive debate style popularized by the current pop-culture-right-wing movement (i.e. Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, etc.) where you bypass the main assumption of an argument by going to the most ‘non-PC’ underpinning; in this case asking “what’s wrong with a war for oil?”

It can be an effective debate style, yet seems to play fast-and-loose with moral questions in the interest of either winning an argument or having fun liberal-baiting.

Speaking for myself, I like to think that I live in the United States of America and not an 11th century potentate where the king tells the peasants it’s a noble crusade for God and county when it’s really all about material acquisition.
"

" Bill- good questions on the KNN. Speaking as neutrally as possible (I can hear it now: "oh that's rich, an Am Can Planning Commissioner lecturing us about growth")one of the principle questions I would have about the Napa Pipe proposal is: will it indeed provide housing options for native Napans who are currently unable to settle in the community as housing is too scarce and expensive? The legislative pressure for housing is great, and one argument is that when people who work in the community also live there it cuts down on the long externally-originating commutes into the county that contribute to traffic. One question that needs to be asked is, will the project provide housing that people working in Napa's largely service-oriented economy be able to afford, or will it attract "Empty-Nester" retirees, 2nd home owners and those with more disposable income into the County? I'm honestly not familiar enough w/ the project to know one way or another, but given the nature of alot of development lately, that's a question that would come to my mind. "

" by living there, or at least traveling and living in other cultures, you would find that they don't all hate us and want us dead! and 9/11? I was in Saudi Arabia, Kevin, I know the reaction of everyday folks there...as horrified as we were at those events. Travel then comment please! "

" Matt, while I am not above "liberal baiting" I think it is a legitimate question. I think too many people don't understand the economic repercussions of a significant world wide oil shortage. I get the idea they think it would be inconvienient or mildly expensive (similiar to what happened in the 70's when OPEC tried to limit the suppply). In reality, the world economy is so dependent on oil, the results would be massive inflation, business closures, huge increases in unemployment and significant food shortages. It would lead to a world wide depression that could take years to recover from. In my opinion, this is a serious threat that requires a proactive American response. "

" Matt, I am certain you are aware that housing is a function of income. One realtor has ago that an annual income of $80,000 would be necessary to obtain housing in the Napa valley. I believe that to be a modest estimate. The clever play of words must be considered. Are we speaking of low income housing, affordable housing or the latest twist “workforce housing?”
It makes a big difference when looking at what the state demands and the needs of the community. The proposal is for an entire new community, high rise and upscale. County low income advocates have already determined that there is nothing there for the truly needy.
It adds no viable commercial industrial base with a possibility of generating well paying jobs. The people who live there will need to work someplace and that certainly will not be Napa County. You would have better tax based success building another Silverado country club at this site.
I understand you are familiar with hotel workers. Will their wages allow them to live in or even own a base price unit of say $500,000? Unless permanent job creation beyond the hospitality and building industry becomes the focus of development we are Tigers chasing our tail. Almost any one new to Napa will have to work elsewhere and I genuinely question government’s role in deciding to help bank roll housing developers.
A native Napan is no guarantee nor should it be. That is just not how life works we have no rights to live here unless we earn that right by working for it. The idea that my children can not afford to live here is disappointing but they have no right to expect a guarantee nor does anyone else. It is still a big country.
"

" Hey Bill- yes, I would believe that to be a very modest estimate- especially now after the credit and mortgage "meltdown" where its going to be even harder for first time buyers at moderate to low incomes to get into a place not designated as "affordable housing." I understand all too well the situation. When I lived down in Silicon Valley before getting married and moving to AC, I rented an apartment. There were many young professional couples w/combined incomes around $180-$200K a year who rented right along with me as they had no hope of scraping together a 20% down payment on an glorified townhouse going for $715k, or competing w/ the folks who made a full time living buying and flipping properties. I share the same concern about service workers- Napa Valley, in my observation, seems to have a more striated service economy w/out as much growth or movement in the mid-level professional sectors as other places in CA. My guess would be, there won't be many opportunities for service workers to find homes in some of the looming developments. "

" Hey Kevin- so a fine conservative like you is an advocate of the "Carter Doctrine" then? Just Kidding. It is true that energy independence is a way's off, but it would be discouraging to think that we would invest so much- in lives, injuries, money, future debt and global reputation, to hold on to a source of energy that brings w/ it a whole host of other- and increasingly unacceptable- security and environmental risks. Plus, as as Ruff obsereved: its not ours. I would think this is a place where conservative principles would apply: if US oil companies really need to beat out the European and Asian competition, then they should compete on the market place and encouraging diplomacy and negotiation. To use our nation's military to secure economic resources seems like a crossover between big government and big business that should offend, if nothing else, libertarian (sp?) sensibilities. Also, call me naive, but I think if there is a vital security concern- such as the one you proposed- the Commander and Chief should say it just that way, and not exploit 9/11 or make up stories about "smoking guns and mushroom clouds" "

" matt, have you been to the "strandedwind" website? Please google it! Since kevin brought up some more right wing catastrophizing about massive food shortages if the flow of oil were to be interrupted, I thought it smart to point out how less than a month's expenditure in Iraq would largely pay for a system to use ammonia as a farm fuel since it is already in use as a farm fertilizer and many farmers are trained in its safe use already. There is often talk of the negative energy ROI in the use of fossil fuels to produce corn ethanol, well, good old American ingenuity would turn this on its head, also provide more jobs and another stream of income for farmers. When I read the articles, I was impressed with the 'can-do-it-NOW' practical nature of the group. The proto-types are there and the picture of how large a hydrogen tanker vs a common farm ammonia tank was impressive. It's time for us to stop subsidizing oil corporations and 'build/capture/grow' our own renewable energy. Nobody can reasonably talk about 'cheap oil' anymore but here is another way that wind can be put to use eliminating oil from the agricultural sector. Cheers! ~Ruff "

" Mean while back to Napa Napa Matt, which I think is also a very important local issue that local citizens can actually discuss and find common ground on. It reflects the major problems facing America as a society and who we will be in the future more so than any problematic argument over oil. It is just dumb to over consume. Economics is broadly defined as unlimited desire chasing limited resources.

I do not have much sympathy for young or old professionals in the $180-$200K combined salary range especially when the median national household income hovers under $50K (2004 census). The Napa Pipe project is attractive to the young professional but even a newly minted civil engineer while commanding an entry salary of $50K will have to hope for his or her mate to at least match that income and still come up short.

This is not the group in need. Those multi-income households falling below $50K are the real concern which will not be addressed by the Napa Development “Pardners.” The County of Napa and its cities have done a tremendous job ignoring this group also. This is the reason all of Napa is under pressure from the state. It must provide at least a semblance of housing for this group. I believe the mandated percent is quite low.

The current problem stems from people who do not wish to address this issue with infill in either the cities or county. The phenomena known as NIMBYism is better served with dreams of theme parks and seven story buildings instead of honestly addressing it in many neighborhoods by a process known as infill. They would rather attach their responsibility to this grandiose scheme or create a ghetto. How is affordable housing defined?
"

" Hey Ruff- thanks for the tip on the Strandedwind site- I just checked it out. I appreciate the opportunity to learn more about the specifics and science of renewable energy, as opposed to the theoreticals that politics often deals in. Thanks all for a continued great discussion "

" Hey Bill- we're tracking along the same lines. Yes, my point was not to portray folks in the $180-$200k range as needing affordable housing assistance, but rather to illustrate how out-of-reach housing had become, even to families who might be regarded as affluent in any other part of the country, let alone those who are struggling at the mid-to-low income scale. Another commenter "Economist" makes a good point in today's article about the Responsible Growth Initiative- that Napa's current jobs' base can not support much of the new home prices that we see here locally. This is why I suspect that while 3,200 new units may sound reasonable to planners worried about providing housing, recent history would suggest that those new homes would be more attractive to speculators, well off retirees and out-of-towners w/ disposable incomes. Of course, that assessment notwithstanding, I am assuming that the proposal in question designates a certain percentage of the proposed new homes as dedicated "affordable"? "

" Still no definition. What is affordable? "

" How about defining 'affordable housing' as a downpayment and mortgage payment including principal, interest and mortgage insurance that can be funded with 1/3rd of the MEDIAN wage earned by people working in Napa County? I am convinced that the only affordable homes in Napa are being built by 'Habitat for Humanity' and they do not get to build many, do they?. ~Ruff "

" Specifically, as defined in the Draft County General Plan and in accordance with the Federal guidelines, "housing is affordable if the household spends less than 30% of its gross income on housing costs." Locally that means for us- again using the Co. Draft General Plan- that as of Q306 the median home in Napa County would be considered "affordable" for only 22% of households.

In terms of renting, the estimated mean wage in Napa county of $13.76/hour means that a worker at that rate of pay would have to put in 62 hours per week to make the 30% or less threshold for the 2006 Fair Market rent of $1,112/month for an apartment in the County. "

" Then, plainly put there is no such thing as affordable housing in the Napa Valley and not likely to be any. "